Get abuse because how inconsistent and bad they are whilst hiding at every possible opportunity.
Mic them up hold them accountable etc.
If people could hear their reasoning they'd accept them more. Respect is earnt not given yet its all they bang on about respect for referees.
Hard to have any sympathy for refs in the prem really considering how bad hey are, theyre well paid and how cowardly they are on top of it all.
Think we all envy rugby when it comes to refs.
Its Bruno moaning nose Fernadez tbf moaning for everything worse than hendo
It's a blight on the game. I often disagree with ref decisions, who at ER doesn't? But do think it's becoming beyond a joke how much abuse they get. Absolute in your face abuse as well. Time for much harsher punishments for players, but especially coaches, who fail to control behaviour - that includes JM.
Not sure about Bielsa, but about time some of the respect (even if begrudged) of officials from other sports (rugby/cricket etc....) were adopted in football. They've got away with it for far too long now. Some of those images in the link are an embarrassment to football.
I'd rather we stop protecting them so much if it meant we'd see improvement in the quality of officiating in the game we all love and the best league in the world.
They've got a tough job, i think majority would respect them and accept mistakes if we could hear their reasoning etc and they were open and honest about it all.
Instead theyre the opposite and thats the main issue. Theyre protected and get away with levels of incompetence like no other profession.
If people could hear their reasoning they'd accept them more.
-------------------
No chance they would. All it would help with would be the abuse they receive would be fully audible. The play acting, feigning and cheating in football is an epidemic. Too easy to blame it all the guy with the whistle. They ain't perfect, but they ain't the primary issue.
comment by VOF - Have a nice day y'all ... (U17124)
posted 1 minute ago
If people could hear their reasoning they'd accept them more.
-------------------
No chance they would. All it would help with would be the abuse they receive would be fully audible. The play acting, feigning and cheating in football is an epidemic. Too easy to blame it all the guy with the whistle. They ain't perfect, but they ain't the primary issue.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
we've all got to have our critics right? can't just hide from them. But as i said the majority would respect them more if they were open and transparent...
We do have our critics absolutely. I have critics who inspect what i produce and publish online for work. I accept that as part of my role. But what I don't have, nor do many in society, is in your face raging, foul mouthed abuse. Not sure that should come with any job.
These guys are meant to be in control but theyre afraid to be mic'd up or held accountable etc. Its a massive issue imo. demanding respect whilst acting like phannies and cowards.
------------
is in your face raging, foul mouthed abuse. Not sure that should come with any job.
^ To an extent you have to understand the game and competition and frustration. But if they feel its taken too far or dont want it at all card them etc. Retrospective action too. Combat it, raise awareness im with them on this, Klopp included. They'd earn my respect for it.
Klopp had a point but no right to act like that and got what he deserved, as he said not proud of it and deserved. The decision however, or decisions not given to salah, lino and ref dont have to say a word on it shocking decisions.
Klopps held accountable and has to talk about it, officials who caused it with really really bad decisions just go home?
Player's hitting the deck to avoid the pigeon crap, the ref has to decide, one way or the other one of the manager's won't be happy!..
Manager's/coaches, and ref's have a job to do, the ref get's pressure from 2 and their coaching staff on the sidelines, and x'000's from the stands, I'm sure the manacoaches have it easier!..
They should be made to answer for their actions, they're meant to be showing a good example for the younger generation but expect respect, don't understand how they can do that when they're taking chunks out of the people that are supposed to be in charge off the game!..
The rule's should be for player's and manager's, except the whistle and get on with it, end of, if they don't then they deserve anything that comes their way!..
The behaviour of managers, players and fans... live on TV... is shameful when you think how many children are watching it.
People talk about consistency, but if the referee reffed the game in such a way that every Liverpool fan was happy yesterday, City fans would be seething.
And vice versa.
Until football fans etc. realise that just because you disagree with a decision, doesn't mean the referee is necessarily wrong, we will never get to anywhere near respect.
The other thing that needs to stop is for players and managers to openly swear in referees faces, and stay on the pitch.
Zero tolerance.
It would create carnage for a month and then settle down imo.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by VOF - Have a nice day y'all ... (U17124)
posted 4 hours, 17 minutes ago
We do have our critics absolutely. I have critics who inspect what i produce and publish online for work. I accept that as part of my role. But what I don't have, nor do many in society, is in your face raging, foul mouthed abuse. Not sure that should come with any job.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
oh, i thought you were married vof.
comment by montleeds (U18330)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by VOF - Have a nice day y'all ... (U17124)
posted 4 hours, 17 minutes ago
We do have our critics absolutely. I have critics who inspect what i produce and publish online for work. I accept that as part of my role. But what I don't have, nor do many in society, is in your face raging, foul mouthed abuse. Not sure that should come with any job.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
oh, i thought you were married vof.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
you've met her then ........
comment by InBefore (U20589)
posted 6 hours, 17 minutes ago
Klopps held accountable and has to talk about it, officials who caused it with really really bad decisions just go home?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The officials should be held accountable by their bosses the FA, not Jurgen Klopp. We all make mistakes, Harry Kane doesn’t have to explain how he missed the penalty last week, I know he meant to score it. The ref doesn’t have to explain to me the decision he got wrong, I trust he meant to get it right.
Klopp being a khunt on live TV and bullying a bloke doing his job to the best of his abilities absolutely needs to be explained - if nothing else it would humiliate him to a point where he might think twice before acting the Khunt again
If I was a manager/head coach of any club and my player's were carded for arguing with the ref I'd go up the wall!..
The whistle is blown and before VAR nothing would have changed it, but now with VAR thing's can and do get changed, but that is between the ref and his VAR team, has nothing to do with the player or manacoach!..
If anything the captains should be able to question something, but in a polite unheated way, once a decision has been made they should back off and get on with thing's!..
The manager has nothing to do with thing's on the pitch and should hold his trap, if there's a complaint to be made then the club should do it through the correct channels, might not help at the time but could improve thing's in the future!..
Ok, my take on this subject is based on having played rugby (union) and football, but also having refereed football matches.
When I played rugby, I knew that if I argued with the ref I would cost my team a 10-yard penalty (yep, showing my age, but there you go).
When I refereed footy games (only local leagues - nothing spectacular), it was a given that some abuse of the ref was completely acceptable - both from players, officials and supporters. As a footy ref, I didn’t have the sanction of the ‘10-yard penalty’ and so had to rely on man management to control the game. Btw, I’m not sure what a footy equivalent of the rugby 10-yard penalty would be.
In summary - we all know what the problem is, but finding a solution is far from straight forward.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 9 hours, 6 minutes ago
The behaviour of managers, players and fans... live on TV... is shameful when you think how many children are watching it.
People talk about consistency, but if the referee reffed the game in such a way that every Liverpool fan was happy yesterday, City fans would be seething.
And vice versa.
Until football fans etc. realise that just because you disagree with a decision, doesn't mean the referee is necessarily wrong, we will never get to anywhere near respect.
The other thing that needs to stop is for players and managers to openly swear in referees faces, and stay on the pitch.
Zero tolerance.
It would create carnage for a month and then settle down imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Holy crap Winston! See, we do agree on some things.
Nearly everyone that participates on match days are an embarrassment. Managers are passionate, players are in an intense atmosphere, fans are tribalistic. Everyone has an excuse at the end of the match. Refs, however, can never be wrong. Why should the refs have to mic up to give his opinion? Why should that mic pick up the abuse players hurl at the ref at every contested decision? The ref earned his position, I would have thought, or the FA wouldn’t put the person in charge.
Everyone should man up and understand that the referee is human and can make mistakes. Players should stop play acting, players should stop simulating. With VAR, they should ask the ref to punish all such incidences that occurs.
No one deserves abuse or slurs, let alone ad as hominem attacks, and to be fair, I’ve witnessed plenty on this forum, and above all hypocrisy.
Consistency and absolute equality is a prerequisite for minimising reaction. Personally, until that is established, there is no discussion to be had.
Attaching a microphone to the referee has worked extremely effectively in other sports. If the referee has the conviction of his professional decision, then he has nothing to fear. What is will do is neutralise the accusations of not being accountable. It will have been achieved live in front of the audience, and fans can move on without speculating about conspiracy.
Incitement and provocation is never a great place to start if one is genuine seeking to an environment of neutrality, or minimise controversy or debate.
Refereeing is largely dependent on 3 factors, often beyond the control of the referees:
- angle of view,
- proximity to the incident,
- visibility of the incident.
Players, managers and fans (in the stadium and watching on television) will all have differences with respect to those facotors and some get to watch it repeatedly in slow motion and with zooming in on the incident.
An explanation of the referees' decisions or no calls will not satisfy the majority of the above as many of them will have seen it differently.
Add tribalism and bias to the mix and there is no chance of a reasoned discussion.
Days later, I am still reading about those who are defending Klopp's behaviour this past weekend!!!!
Now if we want to discuss VAR where the referee team has the benefit of zoom and slow motion, please be reminded that currently the scope of VAR is somewhat narrow and specifically defined.
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posted on 17/10/22
Get abuse because how inconsistent and bad they are whilst hiding at every possible opportunity.
Mic them up hold them accountable etc.
If people could hear their reasoning they'd accept them more. Respect is earnt not given yet its all they bang on about respect for referees.
Hard to have any sympathy for refs in the prem really considering how bad hey are, theyre well paid and how cowardly they are on top of it all.
Think we all envy rugby when it comes to refs.
posted on 17/10/22
Its Bruno moaning nose Fernadez tbf moaning for everything worse than hendo
posted on 17/10/22
It's a blight on the game. I often disagree with ref decisions, who at ER doesn't? But do think it's becoming beyond a joke how much abuse they get. Absolute in your face abuse as well. Time for much harsher punishments for players, but especially coaches, who fail to control behaviour - that includes JM.
Not sure about Bielsa, but about time some of the respect (even if begrudged) of officials from other sports (rugby/cricket etc....) were adopted in football. They've got away with it for far too long now. Some of those images in the link are an embarrassment to football.
posted on 17/10/22
I'd rather we stop protecting them so much if it meant we'd see improvement in the quality of officiating in the game we all love and the best league in the world.
They've got a tough job, i think majority would respect them and accept mistakes if we could hear their reasoning etc and they were open and honest about it all.
Instead theyre the opposite and thats the main issue. Theyre protected and get away with levels of incompetence like no other profession.
posted on 17/10/22
If people could hear their reasoning they'd accept them more.
-------------------
No chance they would. All it would help with would be the abuse they receive would be fully audible. The play acting, feigning and cheating in football is an epidemic. Too easy to blame it all the guy with the whistle. They ain't perfect, but they ain't the primary issue.
posted on 17/10/22
comment by VOF - Have a nice day y'all ... (U17124)
posted 1 minute ago
If people could hear their reasoning they'd accept them more.
-------------------
No chance they would. All it would help with would be the abuse they receive would be fully audible. The play acting, feigning and cheating in football is an epidemic. Too easy to blame it all the guy with the whistle. They ain't perfect, but they ain't the primary issue.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
we've all got to have our critics right? can't just hide from them. But as i said the majority would respect them more if they were open and transparent...
posted on 17/10/22
We do have our critics absolutely. I have critics who inspect what i produce and publish online for work. I accept that as part of my role. But what I don't have, nor do many in society, is in your face raging, foul mouthed abuse. Not sure that should come with any job.
posted on 17/10/22
These guys are meant to be in control but theyre afraid to be mic'd up or held accountable etc. Its a massive issue imo. demanding respect whilst acting like phannies and cowards.
------------
is in your face raging, foul mouthed abuse. Not sure that should come with any job.
^ To an extent you have to understand the game and competition and frustration. But if they feel its taken too far or dont want it at all card them etc. Retrospective action too. Combat it, raise awareness im with them on this, Klopp included. They'd earn my respect for it.
Klopp had a point but no right to act like that and got what he deserved, as he said not proud of it and deserved. The decision however, or decisions not given to salah, lino and ref dont have to say a word on it shocking decisions.
posted on 17/10/22
Klopps held accountable and has to talk about it, officials who caused it with really really bad decisions just go home?
posted on 17/10/22
Player's hitting the deck to avoid the pigeon crap, the ref has to decide, one way or the other one of the manager's won't be happy!..
Manager's/coaches, and ref's have a job to do, the ref get's pressure from 2 and their coaching staff on the sidelines, and x'000's from the stands, I'm sure the manacoaches have it easier!..
They should be made to answer for their actions, they're meant to be showing a good example for the younger generation but expect respect, don't understand how they can do that when they're taking chunks out of the people that are supposed to be in charge off the game!..
The rule's should be for player's and manager's, except the whistle and get on with it, end of, if they don't then they deserve anything that comes their way!..
posted on 17/10/22
The behaviour of managers, players and fans... live on TV... is shameful when you think how many children are watching it.
People talk about consistency, but if the referee reffed the game in such a way that every Liverpool fan was happy yesterday, City fans would be seething.
And vice versa.
Until football fans etc. realise that just because you disagree with a decision, doesn't mean the referee is necessarily wrong, we will never get to anywhere near respect.
The other thing that needs to stop is for players and managers to openly swear in referees faces, and stay on the pitch.
Zero tolerance.
It would create carnage for a month and then settle down imo.
posted on 17/10/22
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 17/10/22
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 17/10/22
comment by VOF - Have a nice day y'all ... (U17124)
posted 4 hours, 17 minutes ago
We do have our critics absolutely. I have critics who inspect what i produce and publish online for work. I accept that as part of my role. But what I don't have, nor do many in society, is in your face raging, foul mouthed abuse. Not sure that should come with any job.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
oh, i thought you were married vof.
posted on 17/10/22
comment by montleeds (U18330)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by VOF - Have a nice day y'all ... (U17124)
posted 4 hours, 17 minutes ago
We do have our critics absolutely. I have critics who inspect what i produce and publish online for work. I accept that as part of my role. But what I don't have, nor do many in society, is in your face raging, foul mouthed abuse. Not sure that should come with any job.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
oh, i thought you were married vof.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
you've met her then ........
posted on 17/10/22
comment by InBefore (U20589)
posted 6 hours, 17 minutes ago
Klopps held accountable and has to talk about it, officials who caused it with really really bad decisions just go home?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The officials should be held accountable by their bosses the FA, not Jurgen Klopp. We all make mistakes, Harry Kane doesn’t have to explain how he missed the penalty last week, I know he meant to score it. The ref doesn’t have to explain to me the decision he got wrong, I trust he meant to get it right.
Klopp being a khunt on live TV and bullying a bloke doing his job to the best of his abilities absolutely needs to be explained - if nothing else it would humiliate him to a point where he might think twice before acting the Khunt again
posted on 17/10/22
If I was a manager/head coach of any club and my player's were carded for arguing with the ref I'd go up the wall!..
The whistle is blown and before VAR nothing would have changed it, but now with VAR thing's can and do get changed, but that is between the ref and his VAR team, has nothing to do with the player or manacoach!..
If anything the captains should be able to question something, but in a polite unheated way, once a decision has been made they should back off and get on with thing's!..
The manager has nothing to do with thing's on the pitch and should hold his trap, if there's a complaint to be made then the club should do it through the correct channels, might not help at the time but could improve thing's in the future!..
posted on 17/10/22
Ok, my take on this subject is based on having played rugby (union) and football, but also having refereed football matches.
When I played rugby, I knew that if I argued with the ref I would cost my team a 10-yard penalty (yep, showing my age, but there you go).
When I refereed footy games (only local leagues - nothing spectacular), it was a given that some abuse of the ref was completely acceptable - both from players, officials and supporters. As a footy ref, I didn’t have the sanction of the ‘10-yard penalty’ and so had to rely on man management to control the game. Btw, I’m not sure what a footy equivalent of the rugby 10-yard penalty would be.
In summary - we all know what the problem is, but finding a solution is far from straight forward.
posted on 17/10/22
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 9 hours, 6 minutes ago
The behaviour of managers, players and fans... live on TV... is shameful when you think how many children are watching it.
People talk about consistency, but if the referee reffed the game in such a way that every Liverpool fan was happy yesterday, City fans would be seething.
And vice versa.
Until football fans etc. realise that just because you disagree with a decision, doesn't mean the referee is necessarily wrong, we will never get to anywhere near respect.
The other thing that needs to stop is for players and managers to openly swear in referees faces, and stay on the pitch.
Zero tolerance.
It would create carnage for a month and then settle down imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Holy crap Winston! See, we do agree on some things.
Nearly everyone that participates on match days are an embarrassment. Managers are passionate, players are in an intense atmosphere, fans are tribalistic. Everyone has an excuse at the end of the match. Refs, however, can never be wrong. Why should the refs have to mic up to give his opinion? Why should that mic pick up the abuse players hurl at the ref at every contested decision? The ref earned his position, I would have thought, or the FA wouldn’t put the person in charge.
Everyone should man up and understand that the referee is human and can make mistakes. Players should stop play acting, players should stop simulating. With VAR, they should ask the ref to punish all such incidences that occurs.
posted on 17/10/22
No one deserves abuse or slurs, let alone ad as hominem attacks, and to be fair, I’ve witnessed plenty on this forum, and above all hypocrisy.
posted on 17/10/22
Consistency and absolute equality is a prerequisite for minimising reaction. Personally, until that is established, there is no discussion to be had.
Attaching a microphone to the referee has worked extremely effectively in other sports. If the referee has the conviction of his professional decision, then he has nothing to fear. What is will do is neutralise the accusations of not being accountable. It will have been achieved live in front of the audience, and fans can move on without speculating about conspiracy.
Incitement and provocation is never a great place to start if one is genuine seeking to an environment of neutrality, or minimise controversy or debate.
posted on 19/10/22
Refereeing is largely dependent on 3 factors, often beyond the control of the referees:
- angle of view,
- proximity to the incident,
- visibility of the incident.
Players, managers and fans (in the stadium and watching on television) will all have differences with respect to those facotors and some get to watch it repeatedly in slow motion and with zooming in on the incident.
An explanation of the referees' decisions or no calls will not satisfy the majority of the above as many of them will have seen it differently.
Add tribalism and bias to the mix and there is no chance of a reasoned discussion.
Days later, I am still reading about those who are defending Klopp's behaviour this past weekend!!!!
Now if we want to discuss VAR where the referee team has the benefit of zoom and slow motion, please be reminded that currently the scope of VAR is somewhat narrow and specifically defined.
Page 1 of 1