A couple of valid points in amongst an awful article
comment by T-BAG (U11806)
posted 2 minutes ago
A couple of valid points in amongst an awful article
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Such a witty one you are!!
I'm not trying to be witty, to say Arteta is failing is hyperbolic. Right now he's falling a bit short of the standards that have been set, by himself. If it wasn't for him we'd be delighted to be in the position we are.
comment by T-BAG (U11806)
posted 1 minute ago
I'm not trying to be witty, to say Arteta is failing is hyperbolic. Right now he's falling a bit short of the standards that have been set, by himself. If it wasn't for him we'd be delighted to be in the position we are.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Possibly. My thoughts are around making the very necessary tweaks most Arsenal fans thought we needed and not doing that. Instead, he has gone for vanity projects in Havertz and Raya and did not get us the players we actually needed. He also ripped up a very very good blueprint from last year to start afresh and seems too stubborn to admit he is wrong.
Similar to Wenger in his latter years, necessary tweaks/additions are being ignored in favour of ideas only the manager comes up with which when shown to be bad ideas, they double down on.
I will also add that his record in cup competitions is shocking. We have gone out to teams we should be thumping and tried a false 9 in a Europa League semi final. We are not in a position to throw away cups. I can take losses absolutely but the manner of most of those have been via self inflicted bad decisions or lack of getting the team up for games.
Arteta hasn't always got it right straight away, we nearly hounded him out the door and he elevated us to near the top of the table with a very young squad. Arteta managed to do that when we could have become another circus like Utd.
Yes he's making mistakes but he deserves the chance to learn from them and move forward and historically that would be the right thing to do.
I think it's fair enough to ask questions, but to say he's failing is just knee jerk
comment by MaineGunner (U10130)
posted 26 seconds ago
I will also add that his record in cup competitions is shocking. We have gone out to teams we should be thumping and tried a false 9 in a Europa League semi final. We are not in a position to throw away cups. I can take losses absolutely but the manner of most of those have been via self inflicted bad decisions or lack of getting the team up for games.
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When he treated the cup as a priority we won the FA Cup but since then we've been trying to build the squad to compete on all fronts and we're still a way off
comment by T-BAG (U11806)
posted 15 minutes ago
A couple of valid points in amongst an awful article
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There are lots of people that didnt like arteta from the start waiting for him to do badly so they can say they never liked him as if that somehow redeems their initial incorrect assessment
Yeah a lot of people would rather be right than reconsider their stance for the better. It's not just an Arsenal thing and seems to be a driving force in the world getting gradually more divided.
Christ. A second spot you had no business getting and actually topping the table deep into the season and now being what? 3 points off the top?
Yeah, he is failing
comment by T-BAG (U11806)
posted 16 minutes ago
Yeah a lot of people would rather be right than reconsider their stance for the better. It's not just an Arsenal thing and seems to be a driving force in the world getting gradually more divided.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am trying and have tried to really buy into what he is doing. But I feel like every time I get close to being fully convinced, he does something that makes me wonder wth. The cups again...we have no God given right to win anything...but it is the manner of how we lost. Either with a whimper or due to very poor decisions from Arteta.
I was o excited about this season with Rice in and then what happens? Partey shows up at RB and the whole White, Odegaard, Saka connection is broken. O am like whhhhyyyyy????
I would be over the moon if he ends up winning us some big things. But I fear that we will look back in 3 or 4 years and see a massive missed opportunity. I would not be shocked if he leaves in 2 years to manage elsewhere and all he won was the 2020 FA cup with a team that he inherited. And that will indeed be a massive failure for a manager who seems to have all the ingredients to win trophies (young talented squad, full financial backing from the board etc)
comment by Cinciwolf----Old Trafford record attendance.....WOLVES V GRIMSBY. .......lolz (U11551)
posted 9 minutes ago
Christ. A second spot you had no business getting and actually topping the table deep into the season and now being what? 3 points off the top?
Yeah, he is failing
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's how we have been playing though. Now we are seeing the results actually begin to match how we have been this season. Also...off the top of my head, whilst we have improved our results vs Everton away and Man City at home and got 6 pts we did not get last year, we have dropped 9 pts to Spurs and Fulham at home as well as Newcastle and Chelsea away - points thst we picked up last year.
I am not looking at this result alone, I am looking at the summer transfers, our style of play, historical showings in cup competitions and now results. I know some are lauding him for even getting us to where we see, and I appreciate what he has done...but we are Arsenal. The standards HAVE to be high. We have to ask if we put our best foot forward in every game we play with the players available and I feel like we dont.
It was a weird summer, on paper bar Havertz we made good signings.
The much maligned Raya signing wasn't actually bad in theory, the bad part is making him number regardless of performance. As a number two Raya would've been a massive upgrade on what we had. Guess he only agreed to sign based on assurances he'd be number one? What's happened is we've lost a solid, likeable, captain type figure at the back in Ramsdale, which likely isn't great for moral, especially when Raya has been so shaky generally.
Timber was likely a good signing, can't help what happened with his injury, fingers crossed he comes back strong.
The Havertz signing seemed awful on paper, and has been as bad, if not worse than most feared so far. Offers almost nothing and cost an insane amount to boot...
Rice has been good, huge fee but so far he's been a positive in an often frustrating season.
What we failed to sign was a top quality CF, although I don't think that's why we're struggling.
Instead, something just looks off tactically and the 3 players (Ode, Saka & Martinelli) who effectively dragged us close-ish to a title last season have looked off the boil. Is it fatigue or is it the tactical changes in CM/AM that have meant we look so incoherent generally?
From here, Arteta needs to find a midfield that actually works. ESR and Vieira are options at AM. Or we see how Partey at DM with Rice further forward could work. After all, very few would've thought Xhaka at AM would've been so good there, worth trying Rice if we can't find another solution imo.
Finally, any manager / dof that ever works for the club must immediately sign a binding agreement to stop raiding Chelsea's fecking bin!!!
comment by MaineGunner (U10130)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Cinciwolf----Old Trafford record attendance.....WOLVES V GRIMSBY. .......lolz (U11551)
posted 9 minutes ago
Christ. A second spot you had no business getting and actually topping the table deep into the season and now being what? 3 points off the top?
Yeah, he is failing
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's how we have been playing though. Now we are seeing the results actually begin to match how we have been this season. Also...off the top of my head, whilst we have improved our results vs Everton away and Man City at home and got 6 pts we did not get last year, we have dropped 9 pts to Spurs and Fulham at home as well as Newcastle and Chelsea away - points thst we picked up last year.
I am not looking at this result alone, I am looking at the summer transfers, our style of play, historical showings in cup competitions and now results. I know some are lauding him for even getting us to where we see, and I appreciate what he has done...but we are Arsenal. The standards HAVE to be high. We have to ask if we put our best foot forward in every game we play with the players available and I feel like we dont.
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I dunno man, feels like you are expecting too much. You may not on form right now but you are still picking up points. And lets be honest here, you are not winning the league while City are around anyway.
If he leaves tomorrow he's left us a lot stronger than when he came in, I can't see how that could be a failure.
Before complaining about Arteta take a look at the complete disaster that is Man Utd and Chelsea
Cinci are you trying to be a Welshpoolfan? Talking sense and that
Talking sense on here gets you into trouble!! Cinci always has the right perspective, whether it be a football article or these political/religious articles that pop up from time to time.
Oooh cinci love me love me
Pathetic
From here, Arteta needs to find a midfield that actually works. ESR and Vieira are options at AM. Or we see how Partey at DM with Rice further forward could work. After all, very few would've thought Xhaka at AM would've been so good there, worth trying Rice if we can't find another solution imo.
----------------
A few problems with this...
Smith Rowe is injured,
Partey is injured
Rice, a £105m DM who has been excellent at DM, has been tried in the "Xhaka role" and it simply takes away a lot of his game. To sacrifice that for Jorginho makes little sense, to sacrifice that for an injury mess who underperformed when it mattered last season, and who is going to spend a month in Côte d'Ivoire when he gets back from injury is just plain idiotic.
TImber looked really good and it was just plain stupidity from our medical team that let him come on in the 2nd half against Forrest.
Most likely he would have been fine if we just subbed him off.
Rice looks amazing and has been our best player in most games.
Havertz why did we sign him to play in MF we should have got the guy Liverpool got Szoboszlai or even Gravenberch or Maddinson. All 3 would have been cheaper.
Also still relying on that injury prone mess Jesus and PArtey was another chit show. We then have to call upon Eddie who is only useful against cannon fodder relegation teams.
We should have been looking at a top striker during the summer, who that is or should have been i have no idea.
My Ideal signing would have been
Rice / Timber / Szoboszlai + CF
If we could have squeezed in Maddinson somehow it would have been ideal.
I think one option in the squad who could play the Xhaka role, and does for his country, is Zinchenko. The fact he is a liability in the back 4 and Tomiyasu is a better option there, frees him up.
Another thing I would like to see tried while we have injuries is Martinelli through the middle instead of Nketiah. He would be more similar to Jesus than Nketiah in that he probably wouldn't spend much time in the box, but Trossard can come in on the left and dovetail with him.
While I'm on it, I would also drop Gabriel, who I think was the person Timber would have replaced. Give Kiwoir a run of games and see how he does.
Wednesday night could see us qualify for the next round with a win and PSV losing (even a draw pretty much puts us through barring an absolute disaster), and then we have Burnley at home before the international break. Doesn't sound good on injured players returning after that, although we have little idea on Odegaard.
Is Arteta failing? Well I'm sure his objectives were to get us back into the top 4 and into CL which he done, and this season his objectives probably were to keep us in the fight for the title and progress deep into the CL so so far he is on course for both. So no, he isn't failing. Wasn't a fan of signing Havertz nor Raya - hopefully we can find solutions in January and sign a striker.
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 16 minutes ago
From here, Arteta needs to find a midfield that actually works. ESR and Vieira are options at AM. Or we see how Partey at DM with Rice further forward could work. After all, very few would've thought Xhaka at AM would've been so good there, worth trying Rice if we can't find another solution imo.
----------------
A few problems with this...
Smith Rowe is injured,
Partey is injured
Rice, a £105m DM who has been excellent at DM, has been tried in the "Xhaka role" and it simply takes away a lot of his game. To sacrifice that for Jorginho makes little sense, to sacrifice that for an injury mess who underperformed when it mattered last season, and who is going to spend a month in Côte d'Ivoire when he gets back from injury is just plain idiotic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wtf... yes clearly I was advocating playing injured players right now rather than as a longer term solution to our midfield problems
Agree on one thing though, not interested in seeing another Chelsea reject in Jorginho play more than he absolutely has to.
For all Rice's good work individually at DM so far, the midfield has overall taken a significant step backward with Partey dropped/injured and Xhaka gone.
We have other issues of course but that gap left by Xhaka needs sorting badly. If a fit Partey at DM with Rice further forward becomes an option I'd definitely try it. While you say Partey "underperformed when it mattered last season" you might as well drop the entire first team on that basis.
A long term solution would be to buy players to fit the system, not to shoehorn extremely unreliable players in to the detriment of the player you spent £105m on.
When exactly are you doing this experiment with Partey - he is rumoured to be out until mid December, so has 3 or 4 games to get himself ready for ACoN. And we have all seen how players come back from that and it is rarely in good form or fitness. It is not a solution for pre-January window opening so it should not be considered a solution at all.
Surely a long term solution should be one that can work for the long term, and neither Partey or Smith Rowe have shown any sign they can stay fit for a prolonged period of time even when they aren't playing...
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Arteta is failing
Page 1 of 2
posted on 5/11/23
A couple of valid points in amongst an awful article
posted on 5/11/23
comment by T-BAG (U11806)
posted 2 minutes ago
A couple of valid points in amongst an awful article
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Such a witty one you are!!
posted on 5/11/23
I'm not trying to be witty, to say Arteta is failing is hyperbolic. Right now he's falling a bit short of the standards that have been set, by himself. If it wasn't for him we'd be delighted to be in the position we are.
posted on 5/11/23
comment by T-BAG (U11806)
posted 1 minute ago
I'm not trying to be witty, to say Arteta is failing is hyperbolic. Right now he's falling a bit short of the standards that have been set, by himself. If it wasn't for him we'd be delighted to be in the position we are.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Possibly. My thoughts are around making the very necessary tweaks most Arsenal fans thought we needed and not doing that. Instead, he has gone for vanity projects in Havertz and Raya and did not get us the players we actually needed. He also ripped up a very very good blueprint from last year to start afresh and seems too stubborn to admit he is wrong.
Similar to Wenger in his latter years, necessary tweaks/additions are being ignored in favour of ideas only the manager comes up with which when shown to be bad ideas, they double down on.
posted on 5/11/23
I will also add that his record in cup competitions is shocking. We have gone out to teams we should be thumping and tried a false 9 in a Europa League semi final. We are not in a position to throw away cups. I can take losses absolutely but the manner of most of those have been via self inflicted bad decisions or lack of getting the team up for games.
posted on 5/11/23
Arteta hasn't always got it right straight away, we nearly hounded him out the door and he elevated us to near the top of the table with a very young squad. Arteta managed to do that when we could have become another circus like Utd.
Yes he's making mistakes but he deserves the chance to learn from them and move forward and historically that would be the right thing to do.
I think it's fair enough to ask questions, but to say he's failing is just knee jerk
posted on 5/11/23
comment by MaineGunner (U10130)
posted 26 seconds ago
I will also add that his record in cup competitions is shocking. We have gone out to teams we should be thumping and tried a false 9 in a Europa League semi final. We are not in a position to throw away cups. I can take losses absolutely but the manner of most of those have been via self inflicted bad decisions or lack of getting the team up for games.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When he treated the cup as a priority we won the FA Cup but since then we've been trying to build the squad to compete on all fronts and we're still a way off
posted on 5/11/23
comment by T-BAG (U11806)
posted 15 minutes ago
A couple of valid points in amongst an awful article
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There are lots of people that didnt like arteta from the start waiting for him to do badly so they can say they never liked him as if that somehow redeems their initial incorrect assessment
posted on 5/11/23
Yeah a lot of people would rather be right than reconsider their stance for the better. It's not just an Arsenal thing and seems to be a driving force in the world getting gradually more divided.
posted on 5/11/23
Christ. A second spot you had no business getting and actually topping the table deep into the season and now being what? 3 points off the top?
Yeah, he is failing
posted on 5/11/23
comment by T-BAG (U11806)
posted 16 minutes ago
Yeah a lot of people would rather be right than reconsider their stance for the better. It's not just an Arsenal thing and seems to be a driving force in the world getting gradually more divided.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am trying and have tried to really buy into what he is doing. But I feel like every time I get close to being fully convinced, he does something that makes me wonder wth. The cups again...we have no God given right to win anything...but it is the manner of how we lost. Either with a whimper or due to very poor decisions from Arteta.
I was o excited about this season with Rice in and then what happens? Partey shows up at RB and the whole White, Odegaard, Saka connection is broken. O am like whhhhyyyyy????
I would be over the moon if he ends up winning us some big things. But I fear that we will look back in 3 or 4 years and see a massive missed opportunity. I would not be shocked if he leaves in 2 years to manage elsewhere and all he won was the 2020 FA cup with a team that he inherited. And that will indeed be a massive failure for a manager who seems to have all the ingredients to win trophies (young talented squad, full financial backing from the board etc)
posted on 5/11/23
comment by Cinciwolf----Old Trafford record attendance.....WOLVES V GRIMSBY. .......lolz (U11551)
posted 9 minutes ago
Christ. A second spot you had no business getting and actually topping the table deep into the season and now being what? 3 points off the top?
Yeah, he is failing
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's how we have been playing though. Now we are seeing the results actually begin to match how we have been this season. Also...off the top of my head, whilst we have improved our results vs Everton away and Man City at home and got 6 pts we did not get last year, we have dropped 9 pts to Spurs and Fulham at home as well as Newcastle and Chelsea away - points thst we picked up last year.
I am not looking at this result alone, I am looking at the summer transfers, our style of play, historical showings in cup competitions and now results. I know some are lauding him for even getting us to where we see, and I appreciate what he has done...but we are Arsenal. The standards HAVE to be high. We have to ask if we put our best foot forward in every game we play with the players available and I feel like we dont.
posted on 5/11/23
It was a weird summer, on paper bar Havertz we made good signings.
The much maligned Raya signing wasn't actually bad in theory, the bad part is making him number regardless of performance. As a number two Raya would've been a massive upgrade on what we had. Guess he only agreed to sign based on assurances he'd be number one? What's happened is we've lost a solid, likeable, captain type figure at the back in Ramsdale, which likely isn't great for moral, especially when Raya has been so shaky generally.
Timber was likely a good signing, can't help what happened with his injury, fingers crossed he comes back strong.
The Havertz signing seemed awful on paper, and has been as bad, if not worse than most feared so far. Offers almost nothing and cost an insane amount to boot...
Rice has been good, huge fee but so far he's been a positive in an often frustrating season.
What we failed to sign was a top quality CF, although I don't think that's why we're struggling.
Instead, something just looks off tactically and the 3 players (Ode, Saka & Martinelli) who effectively dragged us close-ish to a title last season have looked off the boil. Is it fatigue or is it the tactical changes in CM/AM that have meant we look so incoherent generally?
From here, Arteta needs to find a midfield that actually works. ESR and Vieira are options at AM. Or we see how Partey at DM with Rice further forward could work. After all, very few would've thought Xhaka at AM would've been so good there, worth trying Rice if we can't find another solution imo.
Finally, any manager / dof that ever works for the club must immediately sign a binding agreement to stop raiding Chelsea's fecking bin!!!
posted on 5/11/23
comment by MaineGunner (U10130)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Cinciwolf----Old Trafford record attendance.....WOLVES V GRIMSBY. .......lolz (U11551)
posted 9 minutes ago
Christ. A second spot you had no business getting and actually topping the table deep into the season and now being what? 3 points off the top?
Yeah, he is failing
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's how we have been playing though. Now we are seeing the results actually begin to match how we have been this season. Also...off the top of my head, whilst we have improved our results vs Everton away and Man City at home and got 6 pts we did not get last year, we have dropped 9 pts to Spurs and Fulham at home as well as Newcastle and Chelsea away - points thst we picked up last year.
I am not looking at this result alone, I am looking at the summer transfers, our style of play, historical showings in cup competitions and now results. I know some are lauding him for even getting us to where we see, and I appreciate what he has done...but we are Arsenal. The standards HAVE to be high. We have to ask if we put our best foot forward in every game we play with the players available and I feel like we dont.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I dunno man, feels like you are expecting too much. You may not on form right now but you are still picking up points. And lets be honest here, you are not winning the league while City are around anyway.
posted on 5/11/23
If he leaves tomorrow he's left us a lot stronger than when he came in, I can't see how that could be a failure.
posted on 5/11/23
Before complaining about Arteta take a look at the complete disaster that is Man Utd and Chelsea
posted on 5/11/23
Cinci are you trying to be a Welshpoolfan? Talking sense and that
posted on 5/11/23
Talking sense on here gets you into trouble!! Cinci always has the right perspective, whether it be a football article or these political/religious articles that pop up from time to time.
posted on 5/11/23
Oooh cinci love me love me
Pathetic
posted on 5/11/23
From here, Arteta needs to find a midfield that actually works. ESR and Vieira are options at AM. Or we see how Partey at DM with Rice further forward could work. After all, very few would've thought Xhaka at AM would've been so good there, worth trying Rice if we can't find another solution imo.
----------------
A few problems with this...
Smith Rowe is injured,
Partey is injured
Rice, a £105m DM who has been excellent at DM, has been tried in the "Xhaka role" and it simply takes away a lot of his game. To sacrifice that for Jorginho makes little sense, to sacrifice that for an injury mess who underperformed when it mattered last season, and who is going to spend a month in Côte d'Ivoire when he gets back from injury is just plain idiotic.
posted on 5/11/23
TImber looked really good and it was just plain stupidity from our medical team that let him come on in the 2nd half against Forrest.
Most likely he would have been fine if we just subbed him off.
Rice looks amazing and has been our best player in most games.
Havertz why did we sign him to play in MF we should have got the guy Liverpool got Szoboszlai or even Gravenberch or Maddinson. All 3 would have been cheaper.
posted on 5/11/23
Also still relying on that injury prone mess Jesus and PArtey was another chit show. We then have to call upon Eddie who is only useful against cannon fodder relegation teams.
We should have been looking at a top striker during the summer, who that is or should have been i have no idea.
My Ideal signing would have been
Rice / Timber / Szoboszlai + CF
If we could have squeezed in Maddinson somehow it would have been ideal.
posted on 5/11/23
I think one option in the squad who could play the Xhaka role, and does for his country, is Zinchenko. The fact he is a liability in the back 4 and Tomiyasu is a better option there, frees him up.
Another thing I would like to see tried while we have injuries is Martinelli through the middle instead of Nketiah. He would be more similar to Jesus than Nketiah in that he probably wouldn't spend much time in the box, but Trossard can come in on the left and dovetail with him.
While I'm on it, I would also drop Gabriel, who I think was the person Timber would have replaced. Give Kiwoir a run of games and see how he does.
Wednesday night could see us qualify for the next round with a win and PSV losing (even a draw pretty much puts us through barring an absolute disaster), and then we have Burnley at home before the international break. Doesn't sound good on injured players returning after that, although we have little idea on Odegaard.
Is Arteta failing? Well I'm sure his objectives were to get us back into the top 4 and into CL which he done, and this season his objectives probably were to keep us in the fight for the title and progress deep into the CL so so far he is on course for both. So no, he isn't failing. Wasn't a fan of signing Havertz nor Raya - hopefully we can find solutions in January and sign a striker.
posted on 5/11/23
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 16 minutes ago
From here, Arteta needs to find a midfield that actually works. ESR and Vieira are options at AM. Or we see how Partey at DM with Rice further forward could work. After all, very few would've thought Xhaka at AM would've been so good there, worth trying Rice if we can't find another solution imo.
----------------
A few problems with this...
Smith Rowe is injured,
Partey is injured
Rice, a £105m DM who has been excellent at DM, has been tried in the "Xhaka role" and it simply takes away a lot of his game. To sacrifice that for Jorginho makes little sense, to sacrifice that for an injury mess who underperformed when it mattered last season, and who is going to spend a month in Côte d'Ivoire when he gets back from injury is just plain idiotic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wtf... yes clearly I was advocating playing injured players right now rather than as a longer term solution to our midfield problems
Agree on one thing though, not interested in seeing another Chelsea reject in Jorginho play more than he absolutely has to.
For all Rice's good work individually at DM so far, the midfield has overall taken a significant step backward with Partey dropped/injured and Xhaka gone.
We have other issues of course but that gap left by Xhaka needs sorting badly. If a fit Partey at DM with Rice further forward becomes an option I'd definitely try it. While you say Partey "underperformed when it mattered last season" you might as well drop the entire first team on that basis.
posted on 5/11/23
A long term solution would be to buy players to fit the system, not to shoehorn extremely unreliable players in to the detriment of the player you spent £105m on.
When exactly are you doing this experiment with Partey - he is rumoured to be out until mid December, so has 3 or 4 games to get himself ready for ACoN. And we have all seen how players come back from that and it is rarely in good form or fitness. It is not a solution for pre-January window opening so it should not be considered a solution at all.
Surely a long term solution should be one that can work for the long term, and neither Partey or Smith Rowe have shown any sign they can stay fit for a prolonged period of time even when they aren't playing...
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