comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 1 hour, 10 minutes ago
comment by Glazers Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 40 minutes ago
This can only go one of two ways. City get punished and thus everything they have done will basically be scoffed at for the rest of time. Or they get away with it and there's utter bedlam with the other 19 clubs, especially Everton and Forest and the clubs City allegedly cheated out of trophies.
After a 4 year investigation the PL must feel like they've got enough on City to announce it publicly like they did or it would be the biggest own goal in professional sport.
As I have repeated a thousand times......a club with nothing to hide wouldn't have 35 charges for failing to cooperate. That in itself is almost an admission of guilt. An innocent club would open up their books to clear their name as early as humanly possible. Everything they have done screams they have been rumbled and they just don't like it.
The PL needs to come down very hard on them. Yes they will try and fight it but ultimately they are going to have a very hard time convincing people this is all a big mistake. Nobody thinks it is except City fans.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Most normal people like to hear the facts before they make a judgment.
Unfortunately most football fans aren’t normal when their club isn’t doing well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kid yourself City are being criticised because they're not doing well. It doesn't ring true when LFC fans & Arsenal fans bring it up though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep, the American owned clubs are singing in harmony on this one.
Why are certain clubs so opposed to an Independent Regulator?
comment by HB Fash (U21935)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 5 minutes ago
Those are the same emails that were considered at CAS. I’d be very surprised if the independent commission found city guilty off the back of those given the same counter evidence to them still applies.
I’ve always assumed the PL have some other evidence, they’re not the smoking gun some think they are.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They were time barred at CAS so couldn't be punished.
They are not under PL rules so can be punished.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s not right. The main charges were not time barred, the Etisalat deal was but the evidence was still provided so there’s no reason to assume the same wouldn’t apply. For the PL, they still have to fall under English law so they’ll need to show there was deliberate concealment for it not to be time barred. Doable but to say time barring doesn’t apply isn’t strictly true.
Many of the charges presented at the CAS were thrown out because UEFA couldn’t provide any evidence.
Melton will correct me if I’m wrong there.
The CFCB found after its investigations and hearings that the Abu Dhabi United Group (ADUG), the company through which Sheikh Mansour of the Abu Dhabi ruling family owns City, had funded payments in 2012 and 2013, understood to be £15m each year, that weren't reported to the Football Association and to Uefa as independent sponsorships from the telecoms company Etisalat.
The Cas panel of three European lawyers decided by a majority 2-1, however, that it would not consider the legitimacy of those Etisalat payments, because they were made more than five years before the CFCB charges were brought in May 2019, so were “time-barred”
-----
The emails do evidence disguised sponsorship payments, it's just that the CAS would not consider the legitimacy of them, due to the time that had passed, hence they were time-barred. I understand that the PL investigation has no time limit, but from a UK law perspective, the statute of limitations applies for civil cases where *should* MCFC be found guilty by the PL, then other clubs, UEFA, etc cannot bring civil cases against City for financial recompense etc after 6 years have passed.
comment by HB Fash (U21935)
posted 1 minute ago
Also worthy of a mention is that City refused to provide the bank statements from sponsors that would prove their claim that the details from the emails were never followed up on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
City can’t provide that though. The sponsors themselves testified about it though so like I said, they’ve potentially perjured themselves.
What would the City fans on here think of their owners if City were eventually found guilty and as a consequence were either stripped of their titles, demoted, or both?
In spite of the huge disappointment, I suspect they would still remember this era with huge fondness. After all, what nobody can ever take away from them are the memories of all those years of brilliant football, the hundreds of goals, being the most feared team in all of world football, those memories won't die because of a PL or court ruling.
Albeit in an entirely different context, it brings to mind the story of Deportivo de La Coruña during the Superdepor years. Their club chairman at the time massively overspent and ran up a tremendous debt that eventually became the albatross around their necks that brought about their fall into the semi-professional third tier of Spanish football.
They day they were relegated I had dinner here in Tenerife with some mates of mine, one of whom is a Coruña native and massive Depor fan. I asked him that night if he'd swap any of what they'd achieved in exchange for having lived a relatively low-key albeit stable existence in La Liga. He didn't have to give it a second's thought. He said that the Superdepor days had been like living in a decade-long party, and that whatever happened to Depor, those memories would live with him till the day he died, and would live on through his sons.
As it happens, Depor won promotion back to the second division last week. My mate was there in the crowd -with his teenage son- to see Lucas Pérez score the free-kick that sealed promotion (he actually sent me his own video footage of it) after four years in the third tier.
Among the memorabilia he collected that day was a photo with Augusto César Lendoiro, the president of the Superdepor days who also crippled them with debt. Lendoiro is and will always remain a folk hero in Coruña.
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 18 minutes ago
Those are the same emails that were considered at CAS. I’d be very surprised if the independent commission found city guilty off the back of those given the same counter evidence to them still applies.
I’ve always assumed the PL have some other evidence, they’re not the smoking gun some think they are.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think CAS chucked those emails and other evidence out as they were time barred when it came to the Uefa trial.
I think I read the PL doesn't have any kind of time barred period, so that would make it different if true.
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 6 seconds ago
What would the City fans on here think of their owners if City were eventually found guilty and as a consequence were either stripped of their titles, demoted, or both?
In spite of the huge disappointment, I suspect they would still remember this era with huge fondness. After all, what nobody can ever take away from them are the memories of all those years of brilliant football, the hundreds of goals, being the most feared team in all of world football, those memories won't die because of a PL or court ruling.
Albeit in an entirely different context, it brings to mind the story of Deportivo de La Coruña during the Superdepor years. Their club chairman at the time massively overspent and ran up a tremendous debt that eventually became the albatross around their necks that brought about their fall into the semi-professional third tier of Spanish football.
They day they were relegated I had dinner here in Tenerife with some mates of mine, one of whom is a Coruña native and massive Depor fan. I asked him that night if he'd swap any of what they'd achieved in exchange for having lived a relatively low-key albeit stable existence in La Liga. He didn't have to give it a second's thought. He said that the Superdepor days had been like living in a decade-long party, and that whatever happened to Depor, those memories would live with him till the day he died, and would live on through his sons.
As it happens, Depor won promotion back to the second division last week. My mate was there in the crowd -with his teenage son- to see Lucas Pérez score the free-kick that sealed promotion (he actually sent me his own video footage of it) after four years in the third tier.
Among the memorabilia he collected that day was a photo with Augusto César Lendoiro, the president of the Superdepor days who also crippled them with debt. Lendoiro is and will always remain a folk hero in Coruña.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Personally I’d have loved the time anyway and wouldn’t swap it but also think the board deserve everything coming to them if they’re found guilty too.
Quite liked the league one days and loved the championship anyway so c’est la vie!
comment by Neo (U9135)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 18 minutes ago
Those are the same emails that were considered at CAS. I’d be very surprised if the independent commission found city guilty off the back of those given the same counter evidence to them still applies.
I’ve always assumed the PL have some other evidence, they’re not the smoking gun some think they are.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think CAS chucked those emails and other evidence out as they were time barred when it came to the Uefa trial.
I think I read the PL doesn't have any kind of time barred period, so that would make it different if true.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No they didn’t. They were the main evidence discussed and countered at CAS. Only Etisalat was time barred.
Like I already said, the PL still has a time bar unless they can prove deliberate concealment. If they can then the time bar is from the point of discovery.
It’s not a goer from a defence point of view though I don’t think. Maybe for the Mancini stuff.
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 6 seconds ago
What would the City fans on here think of their owners if City were eventually found guilty and as a consequence were either stripped of their titles, demoted, or both?
In spite of the huge disappointment, I suspect they would still remember this era with huge fondness. After all, what nobody can ever take away from them are the memories of all those years of brilliant football, the hundreds of goals, being the most feared team in all of world football, those memories won't die because of a PL or court ruling.
Albeit in an entirely different context, it brings to mind the story of Deportivo de La Coruña during the Superdepor years. Their club chairman at the time massively overspent and ran up a tremendous debt that eventually became the albatross around their necks that brought about their fall into the semi-professional third tier of Spanish football.
They day they were relegated I had dinner here in Tenerife with some mates of mine, one of whom is a Coruña native and massive Depor fan. I asked him that night if he'd swap any of what they'd achieved in exchange for having lived a relatively low-key albeit stable existence in La Liga. He didn't have to give it a second's thought. He said that the Superdepor days had been like living in a decade-long party, and that whatever happened to Depor, those memories would live with him till the day he died, and would live on through his sons.
As it happens, Depor won promotion back to the second division last week. My mate was there in the crowd -with his teenage son- to see Lucas Pérez score the free-kick that sealed promotion (he actually sent me his own video footage of it) after four years in the third tier.
Among the memorabilia he collected that day was a photo with Augusto César Lendoiro, the president of the Superdepor days who also crippled them with debt. Lendoiro is and will always remain a folk hero in Coruña.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Personally I’d have loved the time anyway and wouldn’t swap it but also think the board deserve everything coming to them if they’re found guilty too.
Quite liked the league one days and loved the championship anyway so c’est la vie!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If City were found guilty and punishment was harsh I'd be very angry if I were a City fan as there was probably no need to do it anyway. City would still have been successful IMO. Not as much perhaps but there would never be this question mark.
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 (U2462)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 6 seconds ago
What would the City fans on here think of their owners if City were eventually found guilty and as a consequence were either stripped of their titles, demoted, or both?
In spite of the huge disappointment, I suspect they would still remember this era with huge fondness. After all, what nobody can ever take away from them are the memories of all those years of brilliant football, the hundreds of goals, being the most feared team in all of world football, those memories won't die because of a PL or court ruling.
Albeit in an entirely different context, it brings to mind the story of Deportivo de La Coruña during the Superdepor years. Their club chairman at the time massively overspent and ran up a tremendous debt that eventually became the albatross around their necks that brought about their fall into the semi-professional third tier of Spanish football.
They day they were relegated I had dinner here in Tenerife with some mates of mine, one of whom is a Coruña native and massive Depor fan. I asked him that night if he'd swap any of what they'd achieved in exchange for having lived a relatively low-key albeit stable existence in La Liga. He didn't have to give it a second's thought. He said that the Superdepor days had been like living in a decade-long party, and that whatever happened to Depor, those memories would live with him till the day he died, and would live on through his sons.
As it happens, Depor won promotion back to the second division last week. My mate was there in the crowd -with his teenage son- to see Lucas Pérez score the free-kick that sealed promotion (he actually sent me his own video footage of it) after four years in the third tier.
Among the memorabilia he collected that day was a photo with Augusto César Lendoiro, the president of the Superdepor days who also crippled them with debt. Lendoiro is and will always remain a folk hero in Coruña.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Personally I’d have loved the time anyway and wouldn’t swap it but also think the board deserve everything coming to them if they’re found guilty too.
Quite liked the league one days and loved the championship anyway so c’est la vie!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If City were found guilty and punishment was harsh I'd be very angry if I were a City fan as there was probably no need to do it anyway. City would still have been successful IMO. Not as much perhaps but there would never be this question mark.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree, that’d have been the most annoying bit, none of it was actually necessary.
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 10 minutes ago
What would the City fans on here think of their owners if City were eventually found guilty and as a consequence were either stripped of their titles, demoted, or both?
In spite of the huge disappointment, I suspect they would still remember this era with huge fondness. After all, what nobody can ever take away from them are the memories of all those years of brilliant football, the hundreds of goals, being the most feared team in all of world football, those memories won't die because of a PL or court ruling.
Albeit in an entirely different context, it brings to mind the story of Deportivo de La Coruña during the Superdepor years. Their club chairman at the time massively overspent and ran up a tremendous debt that eventually became the albatross around their necks that brought about their fall into the semi-professional third tier of Spanish football.
They day they were relegated I had dinner here in Tenerife with some mates of mine, one of whom is a Coruña native and massive Depor fan. I asked him that night if he'd swap any of what they'd achieved in exchange for having lived a relatively low-key albeit stable existence in La Liga. He didn't have to give it a second's thought. He said that the Superdepor days had been like living in a decade-long party, and that whatever happened to Depor, those memories would live with him till the day he died, and would live on through his sons.
As it happens, Depor won promotion back to the second division last week. My mate was there in the crowd -with his teenage son- to see Lucas Pérez score the free-kick that sealed promotion (he actually sent me his own video footage of it) after four years in the third tier.
Among the memorabilia he collected that day was a photo with Augusto César Lendoiro, the president of the Superdepor days who also crippled them with debt. Lendoiro is and will always remain a folk hero in Coruña.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Doesn't Depor has a play off against Castellon to decide who promotes?
Or do they already promote and this is just play off to decide who is ultimate champion?
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 (U2462)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 3 minutes ago
Personally I’d have loved the time anyway and wouldn’t swap it but also think the board deserve everything coming to them if they’re found guilty too.
Quite liked the league one days and loved the championship anyway so c’est la vie!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If City were found guilty and punishment was harsh I'd be very angry if I were a City fan as there was probably no need to do it anyway. City would still have been successful IMO. Not as much perhaps but there would never be this question mark.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If a huge part of the investment into the club is found to have been illegal, then it's hugely doubtful that they'd have seen anywhere near the level of success they've achieved.
Which exactly the level of success would have been is anyone's guess.
Perhaps one of the big differences with Depor is that Lendoiro is a local; it's hard to tell if things would be viewed differently with City if Mansour were a Manc.
comment by Never Mind the Defending: Here’s Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool (U3979)
posted 41 minutes ago
Anybody in here actually a lawyer?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My middle name is Matlock
comment by Graham Fyfe (U1734)
posted 9 minutes ago
Or do they already promote and this is just play off to decide who is ultimate champion?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's it. Top spot in each of the two groups gets automatic promotion.
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 (U2462)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 3 minutes ago
Personally I’d have loved the time anyway and wouldn’t swap it but also think the board deserve everything coming to them if they’re found guilty too.
Quite liked the league one days and loved the championship anyway so c’est la vie!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If City were found guilty and punishment was harsh I'd be very angry if I were a City fan as there was probably no need to do it anyway. City would still have been successful IMO. Not as much perhaps but there would never be this question mark.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If a huge part of the investment into the club is found to have been illegal, then it's hugely doubtful that they'd have seen anywhere near the level of success they've achieved.
Which exactly the level of success would have been is anyone's guess.
Perhaps one of the big differences with Depor is that Lendoiro is a local; it's hard to tell if things would be viewed differently with City if Mansour were a Manc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just to be clear, it’s not illegal. Any legality issues would be at the sponsors.
Melts Not really clued up on the legal terminology and technicalities. You know what I mean though.
I always wonder how someone like Ben Johnson would have felt winning the 100m in Seoul in '88. Knew what he was doing, won the gold and broke the WR but soon had his medal and record taken away. But I bet he still looks back and thinks how great that day was.
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 12 minutes ago
I always wonder how someone like Ben Johnson would have felt winning the 100m in Seoul in '88. Knew what he was doing, won the gold and broke the WR but soon had his medal and record taken away. But I bet he still looks back and thinks how great that day was.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s an interesting one that from a fan perspective, it’s hard to equate to, given all the actions are out of our control, all we do is experience it. In that context, it doesn’t matter what happens from this point on, that experience has already happened It doesn’t change how I felt at the QPR game, that’s banked and long gone!
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 (U2462)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 3 minutes ago
Personally I’d have loved the time anyway and wouldn’t swap it but also think the board deserve everything coming to them if they’re found guilty too.
Quite liked the league one days and loved the championship anyway so c’est la vie!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If City were found guilty and punishment was harsh I'd be very angry if I were a City fan as there was probably no need to do it anyway. City would still have been successful IMO. Not as much perhaps but there would never be this question mark.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If a huge part of the investment into the club is found to have been illegal, then it's hugely doubtful that they'd have seen anywhere near the level of success they've achieved.
Which exactly the level of success would have been is anyone's guess.
Perhaps one of the big differences with Depor is that Lendoiro is a local; it's hard to tell if things would be viewed differently with City if Mansour were a Manc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For what it's worth I still think they'd have won the majority of titles anyway but it wouldn't have been as record breaking. The chasing pack may have been closer too and perhaps we wouldn't have seen the record breaking second place totals Liverpool had.
We'll never know, of course, but I don't think any cheating (if that's what happened) was required.
Think it’s worth remembering what the accusation is. It’s that Mansour was funding the sponsors who were then subsequently funding City. There’s been no accusations that either the contracts were incorrect or that the obligations weren’t fulfilled, so it’s not that City got more than what was agreed in those contracts.
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 2 minutes ago
Think it’s worth remembering what the accusation is. It’s that Mansour was funding the sponsors who were then subsequently funding City. There’s been no accusations that either the contracts were incorrect or that the obligations weren’t fulfilled, so it’s not that City got more than what was agreed in those contracts.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This isn’t quite true. 7 of the charges relate to breaching PSR rules.
melton
Yeah totally, you live for those moments and once they've happened you can't really take them away.
City fans will have the memories. They can't go but everything else should if these are proven.
The emails are clear enough proof to me they were cheating the rules.
That said I remain to be convinced they will actually be found guilty because I don't think corruption began and ended with funnelling money to themselves.
I do think if they are found guilty, every trophy won after the date it started must go for the integrity of the league to prevail.
So potentially 3 United titles, 3 Liverpool titles and 2 Arsenal titles to be awarded if so. That the rightful winners of 8 championships never got to celebrate them will be a monumental stain on the game.
They would have to be chucked out.
Sign in if you want to comment
Government interference?
Page 2 of 3
posted on 21/5/24
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 1 hour, 10 minutes ago
comment by Glazers Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 40 minutes ago
This can only go one of two ways. City get punished and thus everything they have done will basically be scoffed at for the rest of time. Or they get away with it and there's utter bedlam with the other 19 clubs, especially Everton and Forest and the clubs City allegedly cheated out of trophies.
After a 4 year investigation the PL must feel like they've got enough on City to announce it publicly like they did or it would be the biggest own goal in professional sport.
As I have repeated a thousand times......a club with nothing to hide wouldn't have 35 charges for failing to cooperate. That in itself is almost an admission of guilt. An innocent club would open up their books to clear their name as early as humanly possible. Everything they have done screams they have been rumbled and they just don't like it.
The PL needs to come down very hard on them. Yes they will try and fight it but ultimately they are going to have a very hard time convincing people this is all a big mistake. Nobody thinks it is except City fans.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Most normal people like to hear the facts before they make a judgment.
Unfortunately most football fans aren’t normal when their club isn’t doing well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kid yourself City are being criticised because they're not doing well. It doesn't ring true when LFC fans & Arsenal fans bring it up though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep, the American owned clubs are singing in harmony on this one.
Why are certain clubs so opposed to an Independent Regulator?
posted on 21/5/24
comment by HB Fash (U21935)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 5 minutes ago
Those are the same emails that were considered at CAS. I’d be very surprised if the independent commission found city guilty off the back of those given the same counter evidence to them still applies.
I’ve always assumed the PL have some other evidence, they’re not the smoking gun some think they are.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They were time barred at CAS so couldn't be punished.
They are not under PL rules so can be punished.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s not right. The main charges were not time barred, the Etisalat deal was but the evidence was still provided so there’s no reason to assume the same wouldn’t apply. For the PL, they still have to fall under English law so they’ll need to show there was deliberate concealment for it not to be time barred. Doable but to say time barring doesn’t apply isn’t strictly true.
posted on 21/5/24
Many of the charges presented at the CAS were thrown out because UEFA couldn’t provide any evidence.
Melton will correct me if I’m wrong there.
posted on 21/5/24
The CFCB found after its investigations and hearings that the Abu Dhabi United Group (ADUG), the company through which Sheikh Mansour of the Abu Dhabi ruling family owns City, had funded payments in 2012 and 2013, understood to be £15m each year, that weren't reported to the Football Association and to Uefa as independent sponsorships from the telecoms company Etisalat.
The Cas panel of three European lawyers decided by a majority 2-1, however, that it would not consider the legitimacy of those Etisalat payments, because they were made more than five years before the CFCB charges were brought in May 2019, so were “time-barred”
-----
The emails do evidence disguised sponsorship payments, it's just that the CAS would not consider the legitimacy of them, due to the time that had passed, hence they were time-barred. I understand that the PL investigation has no time limit, but from a UK law perspective, the statute of limitations applies for civil cases where *should* MCFC be found guilty by the PL, then other clubs, UEFA, etc cannot bring civil cases against City for financial recompense etc after 6 years have passed.
posted on 21/5/24
comment by HB Fash (U21935)
posted 1 minute ago
Also worthy of a mention is that City refused to provide the bank statements from sponsors that would prove their claim that the details from the emails were never followed up on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
City can’t provide that though. The sponsors themselves testified about it though so like I said, they’ve potentially perjured themselves.
posted on 21/5/24
What would the City fans on here think of their owners if City were eventually found guilty and as a consequence were either stripped of their titles, demoted, or both?
In spite of the huge disappointment, I suspect they would still remember this era with huge fondness. After all, what nobody can ever take away from them are the memories of all those years of brilliant football, the hundreds of goals, being the most feared team in all of world football, those memories won't die because of a PL or court ruling.
Albeit in an entirely different context, it brings to mind the story of Deportivo de La Coruña during the Superdepor years. Their club chairman at the time massively overspent and ran up a tremendous debt that eventually became the albatross around their necks that brought about their fall into the semi-professional third tier of Spanish football.
They day they were relegated I had dinner here in Tenerife with some mates of mine, one of whom is a Coruña native and massive Depor fan. I asked him that night if he'd swap any of what they'd achieved in exchange for having lived a relatively low-key albeit stable existence in La Liga. He didn't have to give it a second's thought. He said that the Superdepor days had been like living in a decade-long party, and that whatever happened to Depor, those memories would live with him till the day he died, and would live on through his sons.
As it happens, Depor won promotion back to the second division last week. My mate was there in the crowd -with his teenage son- to see Lucas Pérez score the free-kick that sealed promotion (he actually sent me his own video footage of it) after four years in the third tier.
Among the memorabilia he collected that day was a photo with Augusto César Lendoiro, the president of the Superdepor days who also crippled them with debt. Lendoiro is and will always remain a folk hero in Coruña.
posted on 21/5/24
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 18 minutes ago
Those are the same emails that were considered at CAS. I’d be very surprised if the independent commission found city guilty off the back of those given the same counter evidence to them still applies.
I’ve always assumed the PL have some other evidence, they’re not the smoking gun some think they are.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think CAS chucked those emails and other evidence out as they were time barred when it came to the Uefa trial.
I think I read the PL doesn't have any kind of time barred period, so that would make it different if true.
posted on 21/5/24
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 6 seconds ago
What would the City fans on here think of their owners if City were eventually found guilty and as a consequence were either stripped of their titles, demoted, or both?
In spite of the huge disappointment, I suspect they would still remember this era with huge fondness. After all, what nobody can ever take away from them are the memories of all those years of brilliant football, the hundreds of goals, being the most feared team in all of world football, those memories won't die because of a PL or court ruling.
Albeit in an entirely different context, it brings to mind the story of Deportivo de La Coruña during the Superdepor years. Their club chairman at the time massively overspent and ran up a tremendous debt that eventually became the albatross around their necks that brought about their fall into the semi-professional third tier of Spanish football.
They day they were relegated I had dinner here in Tenerife with some mates of mine, one of whom is a Coruña native and massive Depor fan. I asked him that night if he'd swap any of what they'd achieved in exchange for having lived a relatively low-key albeit stable existence in La Liga. He didn't have to give it a second's thought. He said that the Superdepor days had been like living in a decade-long party, and that whatever happened to Depor, those memories would live with him till the day he died, and would live on through his sons.
As it happens, Depor won promotion back to the second division last week. My mate was there in the crowd -with his teenage son- to see Lucas Pérez score the free-kick that sealed promotion (he actually sent me his own video footage of it) after four years in the third tier.
Among the memorabilia he collected that day was a photo with Augusto César Lendoiro, the president of the Superdepor days who also crippled them with debt. Lendoiro is and will always remain a folk hero in Coruña.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Personally I’d have loved the time anyway and wouldn’t swap it but also think the board deserve everything coming to them if they’re found guilty too.
Quite liked the league one days and loved the championship anyway so c’est la vie!
posted on 21/5/24
comment by Neo (U9135)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 18 minutes ago
Those are the same emails that were considered at CAS. I’d be very surprised if the independent commission found city guilty off the back of those given the same counter evidence to them still applies.
I’ve always assumed the PL have some other evidence, they’re not the smoking gun some think they are.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think CAS chucked those emails and other evidence out as they were time barred when it came to the Uefa trial.
I think I read the PL doesn't have any kind of time barred period, so that would make it different if true.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No they didn’t. They were the main evidence discussed and countered at CAS. Only Etisalat was time barred.
Like I already said, the PL still has a time bar unless they can prove deliberate concealment. If they can then the time bar is from the point of discovery.
It’s not a goer from a defence point of view though I don’t think. Maybe for the Mancini stuff.
posted on 21/5/24
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 6 seconds ago
What would the City fans on here think of their owners if City were eventually found guilty and as a consequence were either stripped of their titles, demoted, or both?
In spite of the huge disappointment, I suspect they would still remember this era with huge fondness. After all, what nobody can ever take away from them are the memories of all those years of brilliant football, the hundreds of goals, being the most feared team in all of world football, those memories won't die because of a PL or court ruling.
Albeit in an entirely different context, it brings to mind the story of Deportivo de La Coruña during the Superdepor years. Their club chairman at the time massively overspent and ran up a tremendous debt that eventually became the albatross around their necks that brought about their fall into the semi-professional third tier of Spanish football.
They day they were relegated I had dinner here in Tenerife with some mates of mine, one of whom is a Coruña native and massive Depor fan. I asked him that night if he'd swap any of what they'd achieved in exchange for having lived a relatively low-key albeit stable existence in La Liga. He didn't have to give it a second's thought. He said that the Superdepor days had been like living in a decade-long party, and that whatever happened to Depor, those memories would live with him till the day he died, and would live on through his sons.
As it happens, Depor won promotion back to the second division last week. My mate was there in the crowd -with his teenage son- to see Lucas Pérez score the free-kick that sealed promotion (he actually sent me his own video footage of it) after four years in the third tier.
Among the memorabilia he collected that day was a photo with Augusto César Lendoiro, the president of the Superdepor days who also crippled them with debt. Lendoiro is and will always remain a folk hero in Coruña.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Personally I’d have loved the time anyway and wouldn’t swap it but also think the board deserve everything coming to them if they’re found guilty too.
Quite liked the league one days and loved the championship anyway so c’est la vie!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If City were found guilty and punishment was harsh I'd be very angry if I were a City fan as there was probably no need to do it anyway. City would still have been successful IMO. Not as much perhaps but there would never be this question mark.
posted on 21/5/24
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 (U2462)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 6 seconds ago
What would the City fans on here think of their owners if City were eventually found guilty and as a consequence were either stripped of their titles, demoted, or both?
In spite of the huge disappointment, I suspect they would still remember this era with huge fondness. After all, what nobody can ever take away from them are the memories of all those years of brilliant football, the hundreds of goals, being the most feared team in all of world football, those memories won't die because of a PL or court ruling.
Albeit in an entirely different context, it brings to mind the story of Deportivo de La Coruña during the Superdepor years. Their club chairman at the time massively overspent and ran up a tremendous debt that eventually became the albatross around their necks that brought about their fall into the semi-professional third tier of Spanish football.
They day they were relegated I had dinner here in Tenerife with some mates of mine, one of whom is a Coruña native and massive Depor fan. I asked him that night if he'd swap any of what they'd achieved in exchange for having lived a relatively low-key albeit stable existence in La Liga. He didn't have to give it a second's thought. He said that the Superdepor days had been like living in a decade-long party, and that whatever happened to Depor, those memories would live with him till the day he died, and would live on through his sons.
As it happens, Depor won promotion back to the second division last week. My mate was there in the crowd -with his teenage son- to see Lucas Pérez score the free-kick that sealed promotion (he actually sent me his own video footage of it) after four years in the third tier.
Among the memorabilia he collected that day was a photo with Augusto César Lendoiro, the president of the Superdepor days who also crippled them with debt. Lendoiro is and will always remain a folk hero in Coruña.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Personally I’d have loved the time anyway and wouldn’t swap it but also think the board deserve everything coming to them if they’re found guilty too.
Quite liked the league one days and loved the championship anyway so c’est la vie!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If City were found guilty and punishment was harsh I'd be very angry if I were a City fan as there was probably no need to do it anyway. City would still have been successful IMO. Not as much perhaps but there would never be this question mark.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree, that’d have been the most annoying bit, none of it was actually necessary.
posted on 21/5/24
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 10 minutes ago
What would the City fans on here think of their owners if City were eventually found guilty and as a consequence were either stripped of their titles, demoted, or both?
In spite of the huge disappointment, I suspect they would still remember this era with huge fondness. After all, what nobody can ever take away from them are the memories of all those years of brilliant football, the hundreds of goals, being the most feared team in all of world football, those memories won't die because of a PL or court ruling.
Albeit in an entirely different context, it brings to mind the story of Deportivo de La Coruña during the Superdepor years. Their club chairman at the time massively overspent and ran up a tremendous debt that eventually became the albatross around their necks that brought about their fall into the semi-professional third tier of Spanish football.
They day they were relegated I had dinner here in Tenerife with some mates of mine, one of whom is a Coruña native and massive Depor fan. I asked him that night if he'd swap any of what they'd achieved in exchange for having lived a relatively low-key albeit stable existence in La Liga. He didn't have to give it a second's thought. He said that the Superdepor days had been like living in a decade-long party, and that whatever happened to Depor, those memories would live with him till the day he died, and would live on through his sons.
As it happens, Depor won promotion back to the second division last week. My mate was there in the crowd -with his teenage son- to see Lucas Pérez score the free-kick that sealed promotion (he actually sent me his own video footage of it) after four years in the third tier.
Among the memorabilia he collected that day was a photo with Augusto César Lendoiro, the president of the Superdepor days who also crippled them with debt. Lendoiro is and will always remain a folk hero in Coruña.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Doesn't Depor has a play off against Castellon to decide who promotes?
posted on 21/5/24
Or do they already promote and this is just play off to decide who is ultimate champion?
posted on 21/5/24
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 (U2462)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 3 minutes ago
Personally I’d have loved the time anyway and wouldn’t swap it but also think the board deserve everything coming to them if they’re found guilty too.
Quite liked the league one days and loved the championship anyway so c’est la vie!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If City were found guilty and punishment was harsh I'd be very angry if I were a City fan as there was probably no need to do it anyway. City would still have been successful IMO. Not as much perhaps but there would never be this question mark.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If a huge part of the investment into the club is found to have been illegal, then it's hugely doubtful that they'd have seen anywhere near the level of success they've achieved.
Which exactly the level of success would have been is anyone's guess.
Perhaps one of the big differences with Depor is that Lendoiro is a local; it's hard to tell if things would be viewed differently with City if Mansour were a Manc.
posted on 21/5/24
comment by Never Mind the Defending: Here’s Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool (U3979)
posted 41 minutes ago
Anybody in here actually a lawyer?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My middle name is Matlock
posted on 21/5/24
comment by Graham Fyfe (U1734)
posted 9 minutes ago
Or do they already promote and this is just play off to decide who is ultimate champion?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's it. Top spot in each of the two groups gets automatic promotion.
posted on 21/5/24
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 (U2462)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 3 minutes ago
Personally I’d have loved the time anyway and wouldn’t swap it but also think the board deserve everything coming to them if they’re found guilty too.
Quite liked the league one days and loved the championship anyway so c’est la vie!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If City were found guilty and punishment was harsh I'd be very angry if I were a City fan as there was probably no need to do it anyway. City would still have been successful IMO. Not as much perhaps but there would never be this question mark.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If a huge part of the investment into the club is found to have been illegal, then it's hugely doubtful that they'd have seen anywhere near the level of success they've achieved.
Which exactly the level of success would have been is anyone's guess.
Perhaps one of the big differences with Depor is that Lendoiro is a local; it's hard to tell if things would be viewed differently with City if Mansour were a Manc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just to be clear, it’s not illegal. Any legality issues would be at the sponsors.
posted on 21/5/24
Melts Not really clued up on the legal terminology and technicalities. You know what I mean though.
posted on 21/5/24
I always wonder how someone like Ben Johnson would have felt winning the 100m in Seoul in '88. Knew what he was doing, won the gold and broke the WR but soon had his medal and record taken away. But I bet he still looks back and thinks how great that day was.
posted on 21/5/24
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 12 minutes ago
I always wonder how someone like Ben Johnson would have felt winning the 100m in Seoul in '88. Knew what he was doing, won the gold and broke the WR but soon had his medal and record taken away. But I bet he still looks back and thinks how great that day was.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s an interesting one that from a fan perspective, it’s hard to equate to, given all the actions are out of our control, all we do is experience it. In that context, it doesn’t matter what happens from this point on, that experience has already happened It doesn’t change how I felt at the QPR game, that’s banked and long gone!
posted on 21/5/24
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 (U2462)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 3 minutes ago
Personally I’d have loved the time anyway and wouldn’t swap it but also think the board deserve everything coming to them if they’re found guilty too.
Quite liked the league one days and loved the championship anyway so c’est la vie!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If City were found guilty and punishment was harsh I'd be very angry if I were a City fan as there was probably no need to do it anyway. City would still have been successful IMO. Not as much perhaps but there would never be this question mark.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If a huge part of the investment into the club is found to have been illegal, then it's hugely doubtful that they'd have seen anywhere near the level of success they've achieved.
Which exactly the level of success would have been is anyone's guess.
Perhaps one of the big differences with Depor is that Lendoiro is a local; it's hard to tell if things would be viewed differently with City if Mansour were a Manc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For what it's worth I still think they'd have won the majority of titles anyway but it wouldn't have been as record breaking. The chasing pack may have been closer too and perhaps we wouldn't have seen the record breaking second place totals Liverpool had.
We'll never know, of course, but I don't think any cheating (if that's what happened) was required.
posted on 21/5/24
Think it’s worth remembering what the accusation is. It’s that Mansour was funding the sponsors who were then subsequently funding City. There’s been no accusations that either the contracts were incorrect or that the obligations weren’t fulfilled, so it’s not that City got more than what was agreed in those contracts.
posted on 21/5/24
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 2 minutes ago
Think it’s worth remembering what the accusation is. It’s that Mansour was funding the sponsors who were then subsequently funding City. There’s been no accusations that either the contracts were incorrect or that the obligations weren’t fulfilled, so it’s not that City got more than what was agreed in those contracts.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This isn’t quite true. 7 of the charges relate to breaching PSR rules.
posted on 21/5/24
melton
Yeah totally, you live for those moments and once they've happened you can't really take them away.
posted on 21/5/24
City fans will have the memories. They can't go but everything else should if these are proven.
The emails are clear enough proof to me they were cheating the rules.
That said I remain to be convinced they will actually be found guilty because I don't think corruption began and ended with funnelling money to themselves.
I do think if they are found guilty, every trophy won after the date it started must go for the integrity of the league to prevail.
So potentially 3 United titles, 3 Liverpool titles and 2 Arsenal titles to be awarded if so. That the rightful winners of 8 championships never got to celebrate them will be a monumental stain on the game.
They would have to be chucked out.
Page 2 of 3