When laid out like this, you have to admit SU are doing very well under the circumstances whereas we are just doing OK.
Perhaps it's a bit of the "-15 points" kind of determination?
We went into that season with fire in our bellies -- I believe that resolve earned us a lot of points over that period.
but all things considered I have to ask the question why are Leeds effectively 5 points worse off than Sheffield United this season?
-----------------------
kebab.. SU doing very well, no issue with that... prob performing above their level now, and as 50 above states, maybe thats giving them their 'extra'
Leeds doing very well tho, 3rd in the table, generally playing like potential champions / Auto's a few frustrating results aside.
also early December really isn't the time for a post mortem, if this article had have popped up in March, fair play, way too early for this
Its very frustrating.
We’ve battered every team at home, look miles better, even the leaders Sheffield utd looked a level below.
Over half the team would get in every other team.
But there is a pattern away from home, and it needs changing fast.
Always start sloppy.
Have most of the ball
Give away a stupid goal, silly pens, full backs all over place, massive hole in midfield. All in first half
Goals change games, other team just sit deep, and have something to hold onto.
We then look dangerous, miss good chances, good positions.
Then the game always seems to go, messy for 20 mins. Time wasting by other team, we give silly cheap fouls away, foul throws, wrestling keeper at set pieces, it completely takes the sting out of the game.
Then bang on 70 mins, we bring on a load of subs, no thought of where they are going to play, and the game just drifts by.
Agree will points above, would add that fixture list has given Sheff Utd an advantage for a good start.
They’ve got a rough December. Halfway point is real judge once you’ve all played everyone
Yes I think half way stage is fairer to make an assessment but we are not far away from that now.
Obviously the concern is we end up like last season missing out on top2 and anything but promotion this season would be a complete financial disaster and see many many players leaving.
I was not against Farke leaving after the playoff final defeat. Walking away from the ground knowing that we had not tried anything different was hard to take. It still is because had we gone up we would have kept Gray.
Ludicrous to sack the manager but at the same time he frustrates the hell out of me
I’d love to know how Farke reacts with the team in the dressing room. He doesn’t strike me as a man who’d bawl out the team when they underperform or inspire them with his personality. I do know he frustrates the hell out of a great many Leeds fans with his uninspired substitutions, not to mention leaving it till 70 minutes almost every match. This latter aspect I just don’t understand - if a player has had a poor first half, why wait this long to replace him, thereby fielding a team that is weaker than it need be?
Anyway, as someone on here has said, the halfway point of the season is the time to make a judgement call on how we’re doing and whether Farke is the best man to take us up.
I know what you mean about frustrating, Kebab, Farke drives me nuts with his stubborness. Subs at 70 minutes because this is what the stats say is the optimum time for change. But what do you do when your team is pants after forty-five and you can see it plain as the nose on your face?
We were we giving Bielsa this kind of flak in our promotion season after we lost 2-0 to Forest and we looked like we on a slide. After that game, Bielsa told the players that was one of their best performances of the season and to keep on doing what they were doing. They drew 1-1 with Brentford away in the next game and the rest is history.
I think we are in that moment of uncertainty right now, but Farke has to re-ignite our self-belief. Not by blaming players or saying the team is tired, but by focusing on what we do well. He just needs to take a leaf out of Bielsa's book.
He just needs to take a leaf out of Bielsa's book.
——————-
I mean, as much as I love Bielsa, and would take him over Farke any day.. this is exactly the sort of blinkeredness NJS was talking about..
Bielsa also very stubborn - insisted on a small squad, never ever changed the way we play (maybe once away at city).. even when we getting battered week in week out in the premier league wrote his sacking he refused to change much.
Let’s not choose to forget these things to make a point about another manager
Morning all🌞.
Yep, was just going to make a similar point Spanish about Bielsa’s stubbornness. If he hadn’t have been so, he might still be with us now, in the Premier League? But then again, if my grandma had cojones … 😁
comment by The Light Brigade (U22847)
posted 50 minutes ago
Morning all🌞.
Yep, was just going to make a similar point Spanish about Bielsa’s stubbornness. If he hadn’t have been so, he might still be with us now, in the Premier League? But then again, if my grandma had cojones … 😁
--------------
yeah Light but honestly not so sure that was so much his undoing, I mean, yeah maybe.. but..
looking back, and in hindsight, I think I still think the fact that we never properly backed MB by strengthening the squad properly that second season was criminal..
in a way, his success at raising the profile of players like Dallas, Klich, Alioski, Bamford, KP, meant maybe the club/MB trusted them too much.
who knows and its all irrelevant now. as stated I'd have MB back anyday.. but the man wasn't perfect either
comment by The Spanish Italians - Its all coming home again (U21595)
posted 1 hour, 50 minutes ago
He just needs to take a leaf out of Bielsa's book.
——————-
I mean, as much as I love Bielsa, and would take him over Farke any day.. this is exactly the sort of blinkeredness NJS was talking about..
Bielsa also very stubborn - insisted on a small squad, never ever changed the way we play (maybe once away at city).. even when we getting battered week in week out in the premier league wrote his sacking he refused to change much.
Let’s not choose to forget these things to make a point about another manager
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He also changed it massively for Man Utd 0-0 home first season.
And if you take a glance of this report, and Bielsa’s comment we had actually done it for a few of the top 6.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56790342.amp
I have to say it’s very frustrating that he seemingly refused to adopt these tactics as a fall back when things started going wrong.
The loss of Phillips to injury did kill us though, as it is a slightly better team than us in Man City with the loss of Rodri.
comment by The Spanish Italians - Its all coming home again (U21595)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by The Light Brigade (U22847)
posted 50 minutes ago
Morning all🌞.
Yep, was just going to make a similar point Spanish about Bielsa’s stubbornness. If he hadn’t have been so, he might still be with us now, in the Premier League? But then again, if my grandma had cojones … 😁
--------------
yeah Light but honestly not so sure that was so much his undoing, I mean, yeah maybe.. but..
looking back, and in hindsight, I think I still think the fact that we never properly backed MB by strengthening the squad properly that second season was criminal..
in a way, his success at raising the profile of players like Dallas, Klich, Alioski, Bamford, KP, meant maybe the club/MB trusted them too much.
who knows and its all irrelevant now. as stated I'd have MB back anyday.. but the man wasn't perfect either
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The plan was always to spend 2 seasons budget in the first season of promotion. To give us the biggest up lift in squad when most urgently needed. AR was quite open about this at the time. He took a gamble with the limited finances he had and I think it was pretty logical.
Unfortunately the guy just wasn’t anywhere near wealthy enough. Not something I blame him for. He should however have had less of an ego and planned for this by selling up before end of first season promoted. We all would have been far better off.
He would have made more money. Be remembered a lot lot better. And we could be much higher up the ladder.
Faithy, fair comments... and can't disagree.
sometimes when I think of Leeds' owners and these gambling's - I can;t help but wish we had MB as manager at the time when we were splashing cash all over the place... those timelines somehow together...
because I'm convinced an MB with unlimited (or so it seemed at the time) finances would be one hell of a team
Alan Smith for example ................ playing a Bamford role with MB...... the lad would be running everywhere, sticking his toe in everywhere... playing to the crowd too... wow.... a Kewell, a Bowyer, imagine what MB could have done to these players.. and these were acadomdy players (I know we got bowyer from charlton, but we were cr ap when we first signed him )
then add all the transfers... MB choices
The point I was making about MB was about one of his qualities. He never blamed players for a defeat. He didn’t blame injuries (our injury list was horrendous under MB), and he didn’t blame early kick-offs, tiredness or poor refs.
Of course he had failings, and stubbornness was right up there, but I really liked the way he avoided criticising his team.
comment by The heart of Farkeness (U19827)
posted 35 minutes ago
The point I was making about MB was about one of his qualities. He never blamed players for a defeat. He didn’t blame injuries (our injury list was horrendous under MB), and he didn’t blame early kick-offs, tiredness or poor refs.
Of course he had failings, and stubbornness was right up there, but I really liked the way he avoided criticising his team.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed
but I really liked the way he avoided criticising his team.
----------------
yeah that was really refreshing to be honest
How do you know he didn’t criticise the team or individuals in private? it’s hard to believe he never
criticised…. if he was never critical of the team or individuals well that’s not good coaching, is it?
comment by NJS Vaguely Noble (U8272)
posted 8 minutes ago
How do you know he didn’t criticise the team or individuals in private? it’s hard to believe he never
criticised…. if he was never critical of the team or individuals well that’s not good coaching, is it?
--------------
I think that's the point NJS, he didn't 'publicly' do it to escape criticism for himself... was very refreshing when you compare him to managers like Jose for example, always crying its somebody else's fault etc
he may well have done privately, and that's exactly where it should stay.
I'm going to get you the Beilsa auto biography for Christmas NJS ... I;ve already got Bamford's for Batty.
oh and a book of jokes for Dennis
comment by The Spanish Italians - Its all coming home again (U21595)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by NJS Vaguely Noble (U8272)
posted 8 minutes ago
How do you know he didn’t criticise the team or individuals in private? it’s hard to believe he never
criticised…. if he was never critical of the team or individuals well that’s not good coaching, is it?
--------------
I think that's the point NJS, he didn't 'publicly' do it to escape criticism for himself... was very refreshing when you compare him to managers like Jose for example, always crying its somebody else's fault etc
he may well have done privately, and that's exactly where it should stay.
I'm going to get you the Beilsa auto biography for Christmas NJS... I;ve already got Bamford's for Batty.
oh and a book of jokes for Dennis
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well the point is you have to take into account what he was like in private with individuals or the team…it’s a rather sweeping statement to say he didn’t criticise the team or individuals in public as if he was some saintly saint in heaven, without knowing what he was like in private. Oh well back to reading about Bobby Fischers most outrageous chess moves!
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posted on 4/12/24
When laid out like this, you have to admit SU are doing very well under the circumstances whereas we are just doing OK.
posted on 4/12/24
Perhaps it's a bit of the "-15 points" kind of determination?
We went into that season with fire in our bellies -- I believe that resolve earned us a lot of points over that period.
posted on 4/12/24
but all things considered I have to ask the question why are Leeds effectively 5 points worse off than Sheffield United this season?
-----------------------
kebab.. SU doing very well, no issue with that... prob performing above their level now, and as 50 above states, maybe thats giving them their 'extra'
Leeds doing very well tho, 3rd in the table, generally playing like potential champions / Auto's a few frustrating results aside.
also early December really isn't the time for a post mortem, if this article had have popped up in March, fair play, way too early for this
posted on 4/12/24
Its very frustrating.
We’ve battered every team at home, look miles better, even the leaders Sheffield utd looked a level below.
Over half the team would get in every other team.
But there is a pattern away from home, and it needs changing fast.
Always start sloppy.
Have most of the ball
Give away a stupid goal, silly pens, full backs all over place, massive hole in midfield. All in first half
Goals change games, other team just sit deep, and have something to hold onto.
We then look dangerous, miss good chances, good positions.
Then the game always seems to go, messy for 20 mins. Time wasting by other team, we give silly cheap fouls away, foul throws, wrestling keeper at set pieces, it completely takes the sting out of the game.
Then bang on 70 mins, we bring on a load of subs, no thought of where they are going to play, and the game just drifts by.
posted on 4/12/24
Agree will points above, would add that fixture list has given Sheff Utd an advantage for a good start.
They’ve got a rough December. Halfway point is real judge once you’ve all played everyone
posted on 4/12/24
Yes I think half way stage is fairer to make an assessment but we are not far away from that now.
Obviously the concern is we end up like last season missing out on top2 and anything but promotion this season would be a complete financial disaster and see many many players leaving.
I was not against Farke leaving after the playoff final defeat. Walking away from the ground knowing that we had not tried anything different was hard to take. It still is because had we gone up we would have kept Gray.
Ludicrous to sack the manager but at the same time he frustrates the hell out of me
posted on 4/12/24
I’d love to know how Farke reacts with the team in the dressing room. He doesn’t strike me as a man who’d bawl out the team when they underperform or inspire them with his personality. I do know he frustrates the hell out of a great many Leeds fans with his uninspired substitutions, not to mention leaving it till 70 minutes almost every match. This latter aspect I just don’t understand - if a player has had a poor first half, why wait this long to replace him, thereby fielding a team that is weaker than it need be?
Anyway, as someone on here has said, the halfway point of the season is the time to make a judgement call on how we’re doing and whether Farke is the best man to take us up.
posted on 4/12/24
I know what you mean about frustrating, Kebab, Farke drives me nuts with his stubborness. Subs at 70 minutes because this is what the stats say is the optimum time for change. But what do you do when your team is pants after forty-five and you can see it plain as the nose on your face?
We were we giving Bielsa this kind of flak in our promotion season after we lost 2-0 to Forest and we looked like we on a slide. After that game, Bielsa told the players that was one of their best performances of the season and to keep on doing what they were doing. They drew 1-1 with Brentford away in the next game and the rest is history.
I think we are in that moment of uncertainty right now, but Farke has to re-ignite our self-belief. Not by blaming players or saying the team is tired, but by focusing on what we do well. He just needs to take a leaf out of Bielsa's book.
posted on 5/12/24
He just needs to take a leaf out of Bielsa's book.
——————-
I mean, as much as I love Bielsa, and would take him over Farke any day.. this is exactly the sort of blinkeredness NJS was talking about..
Bielsa also very stubborn - insisted on a small squad, never ever changed the way we play (maybe once away at city).. even when we getting battered week in week out in the premier league wrote his sacking he refused to change much.
Let’s not choose to forget these things to make a point about another manager
posted on 5/12/24
Morning all🌞.
Yep, was just going to make a similar point Spanish about Bielsa’s stubbornness. If he hadn’t have been so, he might still be with us now, in the Premier League? But then again, if my grandma had cojones … 😁
posted on 5/12/24
comment by The Light Brigade (U22847)
posted 50 minutes ago
Morning all🌞.
Yep, was just going to make a similar point Spanish about Bielsa’s stubbornness. If he hadn’t have been so, he might still be with us now, in the Premier League? But then again, if my grandma had cojones … 😁
--------------
yeah Light but honestly not so sure that was so much his undoing, I mean, yeah maybe.. but..
looking back, and in hindsight, I think I still think the fact that we never properly backed MB by strengthening the squad properly that second season was criminal..
in a way, his success at raising the profile of players like Dallas, Klich, Alioski, Bamford, KP, meant maybe the club/MB trusted them too much.
who knows and its all irrelevant now. as stated I'd have MB back anyday.. but the man wasn't perfect either
posted on 5/12/24
comment by The Spanish Italians - Its all coming home again (U21595)
posted 1 hour, 50 minutes ago
He just needs to take a leaf out of Bielsa's book.
——————-
I mean, as much as I love Bielsa, and would take him over Farke any day.. this is exactly the sort of blinkeredness NJS was talking about..
Bielsa also very stubborn - insisted on a small squad, never ever changed the way we play (maybe once away at city).. even when we getting battered week in week out in the premier league wrote his sacking he refused to change much.
Let’s not choose to forget these things to make a point about another manager
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He also changed it massively for Man Utd 0-0 home first season.
And if you take a glance of this report, and Bielsa’s comment we had actually done it for a few of the top 6.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56790342.amp
I have to say it’s very frustrating that he seemingly refused to adopt these tactics as a fall back when things started going wrong.
The loss of Phillips to injury did kill us though, as it is a slightly better team than us in Man City with the loss of Rodri.
posted on 5/12/24
comment by The Spanish Italians - Its all coming home again (U21595)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by The Light Brigade (U22847)
posted 50 minutes ago
Morning all🌞.
Yep, was just going to make a similar point Spanish about Bielsa’s stubbornness. If he hadn’t have been so, he might still be with us now, in the Premier League? But then again, if my grandma had cojones … 😁
--------------
yeah Light but honestly not so sure that was so much his undoing, I mean, yeah maybe.. but..
looking back, and in hindsight, I think I still think the fact that we never properly backed MB by strengthening the squad properly that second season was criminal..
in a way, his success at raising the profile of players like Dallas, Klich, Alioski, Bamford, KP, meant maybe the club/MB trusted them too much.
who knows and its all irrelevant now. as stated I'd have MB back anyday.. but the man wasn't perfect either
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The plan was always to spend 2 seasons budget in the first season of promotion. To give us the biggest up lift in squad when most urgently needed. AR was quite open about this at the time. He took a gamble with the limited finances he had and I think it was pretty logical.
Unfortunately the guy just wasn’t anywhere near wealthy enough. Not something I blame him for. He should however have had less of an ego and planned for this by selling up before end of first season promoted. We all would have been far better off.
He would have made more money. Be remembered a lot lot better. And we could be much higher up the ladder.
posted on 5/12/24
Faithy, fair comments... and can't disagree.
sometimes when I think of Leeds' owners and these gambling's - I can;t help but wish we had MB as manager at the time when we were splashing cash all over the place... those timelines somehow together...
because I'm convinced an MB with unlimited (or so it seemed at the time) finances would be one hell of a team
posted on 5/12/24
Alan Smith for example ................ playing a Bamford role with MB...... the lad would be running everywhere, sticking his toe in everywhere... playing to the crowd too... wow.... a Kewell, a Bowyer, imagine what MB could have done to these players.. and these were acadomdy players (I know we got bowyer from charlton, but we were cr ap when we first signed him )
then add all the transfers... MB choices
posted on 6/12/24
The point I was making about MB was about one of his qualities. He never blamed players for a defeat. He didn’t blame injuries (our injury list was horrendous under MB), and he didn’t blame early kick-offs, tiredness or poor refs.
Of course he had failings, and stubbornness was right up there, but I really liked the way he avoided criticising his team.
posted on 6/12/24
comment by The heart of Farkeness (U19827)
posted 35 minutes ago
The point I was making about MB was about one of his qualities. He never blamed players for a defeat. He didn’t blame injuries (our injury list was horrendous under MB), and he didn’t blame early kick-offs, tiredness or poor refs.
Of course he had failings, and stubbornness was right up there, but I really liked the way he avoided criticising his team.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed
posted on 6/12/24
but I really liked the way he avoided criticising his team.
----------------
yeah that was really refreshing to be honest
posted on 6/12/24
How do you know he didn’t criticise the team or individuals in private? it’s hard to believe he never
criticised…. if he was never critical of the team or individuals well that’s not good coaching, is it?
posted on 6/12/24
comment by NJS Vaguely Noble (U8272)
posted 8 minutes ago
How do you know he didn’t criticise the team or individuals in private? it’s hard to believe he never
criticised…. if he was never critical of the team or individuals well that’s not good coaching, is it?
--------------
I think that's the point NJS, he didn't 'publicly' do it to escape criticism for himself... was very refreshing when you compare him to managers like Jose for example, always crying its somebody else's fault etc
he may well have done privately, and that's exactly where it should stay.
I'm going to get you the Beilsa auto biography for Christmas NJS ... I;ve already got Bamford's for Batty.
oh and a book of jokes for Dennis
posted on 6/12/24
comment by The Spanish Italians - Its all coming home again (U21595)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by NJS Vaguely Noble (U8272)
posted 8 minutes ago
How do you know he didn’t criticise the team or individuals in private? it’s hard to believe he never
criticised…. if he was never critical of the team or individuals well that’s not good coaching, is it?
--------------
I think that's the point NJS, he didn't 'publicly' do it to escape criticism for himself... was very refreshing when you compare him to managers like Jose for example, always crying its somebody else's fault etc
he may well have done privately, and that's exactly where it should stay.
I'm going to get you the Beilsa auto biography for Christmas NJS... I;ve already got Bamford's for Batty.
oh and a book of jokes for Dennis
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well the point is you have to take into account what he was like in private with individuals or the team…it’s a rather sweeping statement to say he didn’t criticise the team or individuals in public as if he was some saintly saint in heaven, without knowing what he was like in private. Oh well back to reading about Bobby Fischers most outrageous chess moves!
Page 1 of 1