Jonty I don't think we're in any danger of a prolonged run of bad results. We are just too much better than anyone else.
The only game we got outplayed was our cup loss. I still think our main problem is not taking our chances to put games away when the opposition is doing nothing.
We need a creative player to open up the opponent. I just don't see why the team has settled for a player like Aaronson who has little skill and is also not a ten.
Is Farke being forced to play him.
I know he has 7 goals, mostly tap ins but that doesn't mean we can't do better.
I agree with you about Meslier, Jonty, but Farke could have taken some of the attention away from him by acknowledging his mistakes, particularly in regard to not making subs when we were coasting at 3-1.
As a unit, the defence looks much weaker without Struijk and their positioning for the Hull equaliser was woeful. Meslier was not entirely to blame, but he was the catalyst for an all-too-Leeds collapse.
Is Farke being forced to play him.
^^^
According to chatter on WACCOE from a reliable
source, the club had a #10 ready to sign in the summer.
But Farke nixed it. He wanted to hold out for Buendia.
As we all know, Buendia fell through. So did the deal
the club had ready after we decided to wait.
* Sorry for hijacking your Meslier thread, Jonty
There's no way even a 2nd string loses to Harrogate at Elland Road.
Farke will play Darlow against them, then whatever happens Meslier will return against Wednesday with Farke once again calling him the "best in the Championship". Then, at some point, Meslier will continue tossing points away.
The hope is the rumours are correct & the 49ers have seen enough.
comment by White as Snow (U22893)
posted 18 minutes ago
There's no way even a 2nd string loses to Harrogate at Elland Road.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry White, but this team is capable of losing to anybody. It would only take a lucky goal for our players to go into panic mode, as I feel we did against Hull. Wiser men than me have said, 'Always play your best team' - and in our case, that's a necessity. That means playing Darlow - I truly believe Mes's confidence is so low he could make some howlers that would turn him – and us – into a laughing stock.
comment by Lorralorimer (U18994)
posted 26 minutes ago
comment by White as Snow (U22893)
posted 18 minutes ago
There's no way even a 2nd string loses to Harrogate at Elland Road.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry White, but this team is capable of losing to anybody. It would only take a lucky goal for our players to go into panic mode, as I feel we did against Hull. Wiser men than me have said, 'Always play your best team' - and in our case, that's a necessity. That means playing Darlow - I truly believe Mes's confidence is so low he could make some howlers that would turn him – and us – into a laughing stock.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Opinion respected, and if it was an away tie i wouldn't be as confident considering the memories of Histon, Crawley etc, but at home i really can't see anything other than a comfortable victory.
I think Darlow will play but it will only be for the one game.
And sorry to say Meslier already is pretty much a laughing stock.
Jonty, understand your support for Mes and the team but there comes a time when you have to question his inclusion.
Even last season, he frightened me. He has zero distribution skills (if he has to punt it upfield from his hands, it goes out of play on may occasions), if he has to pass to a teammate to clear it, it's usually someone that's already being marked and has to rush the clearance. I played GK at school a few times and I would have been straight out if I played like he does.
He frightens every time he has the ball. I'm from the Sprake era who had some howlers but not on this scale - and it's getting more prevalant.
I presume we have a GK coach ? What is he doing - there's no command of the area at all, he doesn't know when to punch, can't/won't catch. If Pat Jennings or David Harvey were watching they'de shut their eyes.
We simply can't afford to drop 2 points a game at this stage. We can all we where this is going (again).
I think Farke's tactics are a disaster, he doesn't see it.
Yes, top of the league(for now) but we're going to be reeled in by lesser teams who are more tactic savvy.
Harsh decisions to be made IMO.
comment by Drig White (U23149)
posted 8 hours ago
Jonty, understand your support for Mes and the team but there comes a time when you have to question his inclusion.
Even last season, he frightened me. He has zero distribution skills (if he has to punt it upfield from his hands, it goes out of play on may occasions), if he has to pass to a teammate to clear it, it's usually someone that's already being marked and has to rush the clearance. I played GK at school a few times and I would have been straight out if I played like he does.
He frightens every time he has the ball. I'm from the Sprake era who had some howlers but not on this scale - and it's getting more prevalant.
I presume we have a GK coach ? What is he doing - there's no command of the area at all, he doesn't know when to punch, can't/won't catch. If Pat Jennings or David Harvey were watching they'de shut their eyes.
We simply can't afford to drop 2 points a game at this stage. We can all we where this is going (again).
I think Farke's tactics are a disaster, he doesn't see it.
Yes, top of the league(for now) but we're going to be reeled in by lesser teams who are more tactic savvy.
Harsh decisions to be made IMO.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree re Meslier. His distribution is awful and why he hasn't been coached on this during his years here is a mystery. I may be wrong but his positional judgment seems worse now than it's ever been.
And talking of position, we may be a couple of points clear at the mo but as last season proved, we're a fragile bunch under pressure, and if we're not clear of the rest in the run-in, I don't believe we'll cope well with the pressure. All of the above are reasons why new signings (keeper and striker) in this window is a necessity not a luxury.
I'm sure I recall Meslier's distribution being fantastic when he first played for the club. He's gone backwards.
If Ilian is getting abuse on social media, or any other forum, then I don't agree with that - I don't for any player of our club and for any reason - it's counter-productive.
However I stand by any comment i've made. No player should be deemed untouchable. If you make errors, lose confidence, get injured - then there needs to be an option to replace, even temporarily. I don't see that as the case with us. Maybe Saturday Darlow will be playing, I personally hope so. We need to know that our backup can step up if the No1 gets injured or is out for any other reason.
Whilst a clanger against Hull, like with the other against Sunderland - I also believe he's made some good saves which have saved us points. I don't think he's a terrible keeper, that's my view - but I don't buy into the notion that he's irreplaceable. No player should feel that secure.
against Sunderland cost us points .....
Every howler that Mes makes makes me furious too, but over the season he has made a number of reaction saves that other keepers might not have saved and has kept points for us.
Is he error prone? Yes!
Is he a good keeper? Yes, most of the time.
Does it balance out? Just about.
Ideally we need Mes without the howlers. The best teams are solid at the back and even if the opposition manage to get past the defence, the best teams have a wall in goal.
We can do better than Meslier, but I doubt we can find such a keeper mid-season while in the Championship.
I'm not specifically supporting Meslier here, just saying villification does not get us anywhere and I endure Farke not hanging him out to dry in public.
I fully expect us to go through at first time of asking v Harrogate, but if we make too many changes, get too complacent, I would not be surprised at all at a draw or worse, such is the history of Leeds being able to make it hard for ourselves.
I don’t do social media anymore and don’t agree that people messaging players or tagging them in stuff.
But people have the right to criticise and if that happens on social media or forums or in pubs, that’s part of football. If he goes on a saves a penalty to win us a key game, he’ll get the opposite.
Some go over board though. The ironic cheering at Elland Road when he caught something after Sunderland error doesn’t help anyone.
I agree! The abuse Meslier is getting from some so called supporters of the club is disgraceful!
I’ve even gone as far as blocking a few on social media and left a couple of groups that seem to do nothing but berate players and Farke.
They’ve either got very sad little lives or they are just nasty nasty people. I don’t need that negativity in my life these days.
Players make mistakes. Meslier should have tipped that ball over the bar but equally, Rothwell should have reacted much quicker than he did.
The other two goals were just pure bad defending.
We are Leeds but we do not have a god given right to win every game playing like Brazil.
comment by Stoopo (U4707)
posted 2 hours, 15 minutes ago
I agree! The abuse Meslier is getting from some so called supporters of the club is disgraceful!
I’ve even gone as far as blocking a few on social media and left a couple of groups that seem to do nothing but berate players and Farke.
They’ve either got very sad little lives or they are just nasty nasty people. I don’t need that negativity in my life these days.
Players make mistakes. Meslier should have tipped that ball over the bar but equally, Rothwell should have reacted much quicker than he did.
The other two goals were just pure bad defending.
We are Leeds but we do not have a god given right to win every game playing like Brazil.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is as close to social media as i like to get from a Leeds perspective. Great source of information and you get different sides of an opinion, which I like.
Sometimes expressed forcefully, but seldom abuse (and if abuse it gets called out as such). It's why I enjoy reading/contributing on here. Its the more highbrow, intellectual side of social media ......
The only time i think its ok jeering your own players at Elland road is if they're not putting in the effort. He's not trying to make mistakes. Let them know you're not happy but booing them off is just cringe.
I watch a couple of guys on youtube, kagey and just joe and they're really too negative for me.
I mean i wouldn't even boo aaronson and i have a weird hatred of him.
mont, you've named 2 names on youtube there that I've clicked onto and I regret ever doing so!..
Criticism is warranted. But as for most ordinary citizens in a position of paid employment, that jurisdiction falls into the hands of the boss.
Vilification for Meslier’s errors does not belong to the public domain. Illan is a professional goalkeeper and already knows the number and type of mistakes he has made stretches beyond what is probably acceptable at his level. Neither does he need reminding that as a professional, should his boss (Daniel Farke) decide to place him in the sidelines for a few games, that decision would be warranted, the same as it has been with his teammates, not least Matteo Joseph when he failed to fire after starting the season as first choice striker.
We have left Matteo in peace to find his feet and form again, and most certainly, Illan deserves the same respect and support also. I’m sure he knows fans are disappointed with his errors, but equally we can be sure he is disappointed also.
Let Farke make the decision on Illam’s state of mind and decide whether and when to play him next.
comment by Real Estate - Podemos ser Top Four de nuevo (U21471)
posted 19 minutes ago
Criticism is warranted. But as for most ordinary citizens in a position of paid employment, that jurisdiction falls into the hands of the boss.
Vilification for Meslier’s errors does not belong to the public domain. Illan is a professional goalkeeper and already knows the number and type of mistakes he has made stretches beyond what is probably acceptable at his level. Neither does he need reminding that as a professional, should his boss (Daniel Farke) decide to place him in the sidelines for a few games, that decision would be warranted, the same as it has been with his teammates, not least Matteo Joseph when he failed to fire after starting the season as first choice striker.
We have left Matteo in peace to find his feet and form again, and most certainly, Illan deserves the same respect and support also. I’m sure he knows fans are disappointed with his errors, but equally we can be sure he is disappointed also.
Let Farke make the decision on Illam’s state of mind and decide whether and when to play him next.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Really well put.
Must admit though I saw the youtube footage of the "howler" and saw for the first time the close up reactions of Rothwell & Rodon. Suspect he might have team mates in his ears as well as Farke.
To your last point though. I hope Farke can judge his state of mind well - history littered with people who believe they can just carry on, when in reality someone needs to make the tough decision to decide for them - for their own best interest. In any walk of life, not just footie.
Bottom line for me; if Ilian is still between the posts for Saturday and future matches, i'll support him 100%. Never booed a Leeds player and highly likely never will. It'd take something pretty extraordinary to take me to that point.
Darlow starts Saturday but that was expected anyway. Bamford and Piroe out so Joseph up top unless he wants to protect him and Joffy is still here.
Maybe play with a false 9 - whatever that is - Largie up top? Wingers one from three. Midfield we have plenty of choice with Gruev maybe back as well.
Bamford out a month so unless we get someone in I guess Joffy stays?
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A couple of days on.....
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posted on 6/1/25
Jonty I don't think we're in any danger of a prolonged run of bad results. We are just too much better than anyone else.
The only game we got outplayed was our cup loss. I still think our main problem is not taking our chances to put games away when the opposition is doing nothing.
We need a creative player to open up the opponent. I just don't see why the team has settled for a player like Aaronson who has little skill and is also not a ten.
Is Farke being forced to play him.
I know he has 7 goals, mostly tap ins but that doesn't mean we can't do better.
posted on 6/1/25
I agree with you about Meslier, Jonty, but Farke could have taken some of the attention away from him by acknowledging his mistakes, particularly in regard to not making subs when we were coasting at 3-1.
As a unit, the defence looks much weaker without Struijk and their positioning for the Hull equaliser was woeful. Meslier was not entirely to blame, but he was the catalyst for an all-too-Leeds collapse.
posted on 6/1/25
Is Farke being forced to play him.
^^^
According to chatter on WACCOE from a reliable
source, the club had a #10 ready to sign in the summer.
But Farke nixed it. He wanted to hold out for Buendia.
As we all know, Buendia fell through. So did the deal
the club had ready after we decided to wait.
* Sorry for hijacking your Meslier thread, Jonty
posted on 6/1/25
There's no way even a 2nd string loses to Harrogate at Elland Road.
Farke will play Darlow against them, then whatever happens Meslier will return against Wednesday with Farke once again calling him the "best in the Championship". Then, at some point, Meslier will continue tossing points away.
The hope is the rumours are correct & the 49ers have seen enough.
posted on 6/1/25
comment by White as Snow (U22893)
posted 18 minutes ago
There's no way even a 2nd string loses to Harrogate at Elland Road.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry White, but this team is capable of losing to anybody. It would only take a lucky goal for our players to go into panic mode, as I feel we did against Hull. Wiser men than me have said, 'Always play your best team' - and in our case, that's a necessity. That means playing Darlow - I truly believe Mes's confidence is so low he could make some howlers that would turn him – and us – into a laughing stock.
posted on 6/1/25
comment by Lorralorimer (U18994)
posted 26 minutes ago
comment by White as Snow (U22893)
posted 18 minutes ago
There's no way even a 2nd string loses to Harrogate at Elland Road.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry White, but this team is capable of losing to anybody. It would only take a lucky goal for our players to go into panic mode, as I feel we did against Hull. Wiser men than me have said, 'Always play your best team' - and in our case, that's a necessity. That means playing Darlow - I truly believe Mes's confidence is so low he could make some howlers that would turn him – and us – into a laughing stock.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Opinion respected, and if it was an away tie i wouldn't be as confident considering the memories of Histon, Crawley etc, but at home i really can't see anything other than a comfortable victory.
I think Darlow will play but it will only be for the one game.
posted on 6/1/25
And sorry to say Meslier already is pretty much a laughing stock.
posted on 7/1/25
Jonty, understand your support for Mes and the team but there comes a time when you have to question his inclusion.
Even last season, he frightened me. He has zero distribution skills (if he has to punt it upfield from his hands, it goes out of play on may occasions), if he has to pass to a teammate to clear it, it's usually someone that's already being marked and has to rush the clearance. I played GK at school a few times and I would have been straight out if I played like he does.
He frightens every time he has the ball. I'm from the Sprake era who had some howlers but not on this scale - and it's getting more prevalant.
I presume we have a GK coach ? What is he doing - there's no command of the area at all, he doesn't know when to punch, can't/won't catch. If Pat Jennings or David Harvey were watching they'de shut their eyes.
We simply can't afford to drop 2 points a game at this stage. We can all we where this is going (again).
I think Farke's tactics are a disaster, he doesn't see it.
Yes, top of the league(for now) but we're going to be reeled in by lesser teams who are more tactic savvy.
Harsh decisions to be made IMO.
posted on 7/1/25
comment by Drig White (U23149)
posted 8 hours ago
Jonty, understand your support for Mes and the team but there comes a time when you have to question his inclusion.
Even last season, he frightened me. He has zero distribution skills (if he has to punt it upfield from his hands, it goes out of play on may occasions), if he has to pass to a teammate to clear it, it's usually someone that's already being marked and has to rush the clearance. I played GK at school a few times and I would have been straight out if I played like he does.
He frightens every time he has the ball. I'm from the Sprake era who had some howlers but not on this scale - and it's getting more prevalant.
I presume we have a GK coach ? What is he doing - there's no command of the area at all, he doesn't know when to punch, can't/won't catch. If Pat Jennings or David Harvey were watching they'de shut their eyes.
We simply can't afford to drop 2 points a game at this stage. We can all we where this is going (again).
I think Farke's tactics are a disaster, he doesn't see it.
Yes, top of the league(for now) but we're going to be reeled in by lesser teams who are more tactic savvy.
Harsh decisions to be made IMO.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree re Meslier. His distribution is awful and why he hasn't been coached on this during his years here is a mystery. I may be wrong but his positional judgment seems worse now than it's ever been.
And talking of position, we may be a couple of points clear at the mo but as last season proved, we're a fragile bunch under pressure, and if we're not clear of the rest in the run-in, I don't believe we'll cope well with the pressure. All of the above are reasons why new signings (keeper and striker) in this window is a necessity not a luxury.
posted on 7/1/25
I'm sure I recall Meslier's distribution being fantastic when he first played for the club. He's gone backwards.
posted on 7/1/25
If Ilian is getting abuse on social media, or any other forum, then I don't agree with that - I don't for any player of our club and for any reason - it's counter-productive.
However I stand by any comment i've made. No player should be deemed untouchable. If you make errors, lose confidence, get injured - then there needs to be an option to replace, even temporarily. I don't see that as the case with us. Maybe Saturday Darlow will be playing, I personally hope so. We need to know that our backup can step up if the No1 gets injured or is out for any other reason.
Whilst a clanger against Hull, like with the other against Sunderland - I also believe he's made some good saves which have saved us points. I don't think he's a terrible keeper, that's my view - but I don't buy into the notion that he's irreplaceable. No player should feel that secure.
posted on 7/1/25
against Sunderland cost us points .....
posted on 7/1/25
Every howler that Mes makes makes me furious too, but over the season he has made a number of reaction saves that other keepers might not have saved and has kept points for us.
Is he error prone? Yes!
Is he a good keeper? Yes, most of the time.
Does it balance out? Just about.
Ideally we need Mes without the howlers. The best teams are solid at the back and even if the opposition manage to get past the defence, the best teams have a wall in goal.
We can do better than Meslier, but I doubt we can find such a keeper mid-season while in the Championship.
posted on 7/1/25
I'm not specifically supporting Meslier here, just saying villification does not get us anywhere and I endure Farke not hanging him out to dry in public.
I fully expect us to go through at first time of asking v Harrogate, but if we make too many changes, get too complacent, I would not be surprised at all at a draw or worse, such is the history of Leeds being able to make it hard for ourselves.
posted on 7/1/25
I don’t do social media anymore and don’t agree that people messaging players or tagging them in stuff.
But people have the right to criticise and if that happens on social media or forums or in pubs, that’s part of football. If he goes on a saves a penalty to win us a key game, he’ll get the opposite.
Some go over board though. The ironic cheering at Elland Road when he caught something after Sunderland error doesn’t help anyone.
posted on 7/1/25
I agree! The abuse Meslier is getting from some so called supporters of the club is disgraceful!
I’ve even gone as far as blocking a few on social media and left a couple of groups that seem to do nothing but berate players and Farke.
They’ve either got very sad little lives or they are just nasty nasty people. I don’t need that negativity in my life these days.
Players make mistakes. Meslier should have tipped that ball over the bar but equally, Rothwell should have reacted much quicker than he did.
The other two goals were just pure bad defending.
We are Leeds but we do not have a god given right to win every game playing like Brazil.
posted on 7/1/25
comment by Stoopo (U4707)
posted 2 hours, 15 minutes ago
I agree! The abuse Meslier is getting from some so called supporters of the club is disgraceful!
I’ve even gone as far as blocking a few on social media and left a couple of groups that seem to do nothing but berate players and Farke.
They’ve either got very sad little lives or they are just nasty nasty people. I don’t need that negativity in my life these days.
Players make mistakes. Meslier should have tipped that ball over the bar but equally, Rothwell should have reacted much quicker than he did.
The other two goals were just pure bad defending.
We are Leeds but we do not have a god given right to win every game playing like Brazil.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is as close to social media as i like to get from a Leeds perspective. Great source of information and you get different sides of an opinion, which I like.
Sometimes expressed forcefully, but seldom abuse (and if abuse it gets called out as such). It's why I enjoy reading/contributing on here. Its the more highbrow, intellectual side of social media ......
posted on 7/1/25
The only time i think its ok jeering your own players at Elland road is if they're not putting in the effort. He's not trying to make mistakes. Let them know you're not happy but booing them off is just cringe.
I watch a couple of guys on youtube, kagey and just joe and they're really too negative for me.
I mean i wouldn't even boo aaronson and i have a weird hatred of him.
posted on 7/1/25
mont, you've named 2 names on youtube there that I've clicked onto and I regret ever doing so!..
posted on 8/1/25
Criticism is warranted. But as for most ordinary citizens in a position of paid employment, that jurisdiction falls into the hands of the boss.
Vilification for Meslier’s errors does not belong to the public domain. Illan is a professional goalkeeper and already knows the number and type of mistakes he has made stretches beyond what is probably acceptable at his level. Neither does he need reminding that as a professional, should his boss (Daniel Farke) decide to place him in the sidelines for a few games, that decision would be warranted, the same as it has been with his teammates, not least Matteo Joseph when he failed to fire after starting the season as first choice striker.
We have left Matteo in peace to find his feet and form again, and most certainly, Illan deserves the same respect and support also. I’m sure he knows fans are disappointed with his errors, but equally we can be sure he is disappointed also.
Let Farke make the decision on Illam’s state of mind and decide whether and when to play him next.
posted on 8/1/25
comment by Real Estate - Podemos ser Top Four de nuevo (U21471)
posted 19 minutes ago
Criticism is warranted. But as for most ordinary citizens in a position of paid employment, that jurisdiction falls into the hands of the boss.
Vilification for Meslier’s errors does not belong to the public domain. Illan is a professional goalkeeper and already knows the number and type of mistakes he has made stretches beyond what is probably acceptable at his level. Neither does he need reminding that as a professional, should his boss (Daniel Farke) decide to place him in the sidelines for a few games, that decision would be warranted, the same as it has been with his teammates, not least Matteo Joseph when he failed to fire after starting the season as first choice striker.
We have left Matteo in peace to find his feet and form again, and most certainly, Illan deserves the same respect and support also. I’m sure he knows fans are disappointed with his errors, but equally we can be sure he is disappointed also.
Let Farke make the decision on Illam’s state of mind and decide whether and when to play him next.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Really well put.
Must admit though I saw the youtube footage of the "howler" and saw for the first time the close up reactions of Rothwell & Rodon. Suspect he might have team mates in his ears as well as Farke.
To your last point though. I hope Farke can judge his state of mind well - history littered with people who believe they can just carry on, when in reality someone needs to make the tough decision to decide for them - for their own best interest. In any walk of life, not just footie.
Bottom line for me; if Ilian is still between the posts for Saturday and future matches, i'll support him 100%. Never booed a Leeds player and highly likely never will. It'd take something pretty extraordinary to take me to that point.
posted on 9/1/25
Darlow starts Saturday but that was expected anyway. Bamford and Piroe out so Joseph up top unless he wants to protect him and Joffy is still here.
Maybe play with a false 9 - whatever that is - Largie up top? Wingers one from three. Midfield we have plenty of choice with Gruev maybe back as well.
Bamford out a month so unless we get someone in I guess Joffy stays?
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