Top coaches at youth levels, top facilities, and a concerted effort.

Its a well documented Q&A this....Google has the answers.

Its because both countries dont have a strong football culture and investment into grass roots infrastructurr and development. Plus as you mention they are interested and commited financially and culturally in far many other sports over football.

Same reason as there's 750m in Europe and only about half a dozen of them are any good at cricket.

They're simply not interested in it.

Football is very popular in China, so that's a weird one. I guess they don't have the level of infrastructure required to allow for a young player to flourish.

India is fairly obvious.

comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 2 minutes ago
Football is very popular in China, so that's a weird one. I guess they don't have the level of infrastructure required to allow for a young player to flourish.

India is fairly obvious.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Even with India though - there are loads of Indian heritage populations in football mad countries. I know there’s the cliche that their parents want them to focus on school rather than sports but you’d think a few would break through.

Locally here Indonesia has a huge population and are obsessed with football. I work with an Indonesian guy who’s shocked all the money and effort the country is throwing into the sport isn’t really paying off yet.

Football is very popular in China
----
So is gambling and corruption.

Not a radically different answer to others already posted, but I guess it's something to do with absence of elite coaching + critical mass of elite competition at academy level. Looking at the USA gives us another data point. They have a decent, and relatively lucrative domestic league now, but still haven't produced genuinely elite footballers. However, we're now starting to see more and more young American footballers move at an early age to Europe to complete their footballing education, and a much stronger generation of soccerball stars is emerging. It's quite likely that the first world class American footballer comes out of the academy of a European club. A lot of Korean and Japanese stars similarly make moves to Europe earlier in their careers. Maybe that's the pathway for Indian and Chinese talent - but I guess first they need to have a bit more of a domestic youth development pipeline.

They don’t give a sh-t about football.

Does Dong count?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yer missus told us it does.

I reckon they probably look up to and treat people like inventors, engineers, scientist etc as the same way we treat footballers, sportspeople and D list celebrities on this side on the world, hence, they aspire for that more than football etc

comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 8 minutes ago
They don’t give a sh-t about football.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Some results from Google about football in China:

- In 2022, an estimated 200 million people in China were football enthusiasts
- Second most popular spectator sport (after basketball)
- 2018 survey: 3.63% of respondents regularly played football. (That's about 51 million people.)

My anecdotal experience is that you can play football with people from countries that don't produce great footballers and the average level is no lower than that of people who play football recreationally in footballing superpowers. (Similarly, free-for-all kick arounds on 'cage' football courts in Manchester when I was a teenager disabused me of any ideas I might have otherwise taken on that the lack of south Asian footballers in the PL reflected a lack of talent at grassroots.) I do think it's much more about the existence / absence of development pathways.

comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 11 minutes ago
I reckon they probably look up to and treat people like inventors, engineers, scientist etc as the same way we treat footballers, sportspeople and D list celebrities on this side on the world, hence, they aspire for that more than football etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------

And yet in India cricket stars are among the very biggest celebrities / earn wild sums from commercials, and China invests massively in brutal training (and PEDs) for its Olympic teams.

comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 9 minutes ago
Not a radically different answer to others already posted, but I guess it's something to do with absence of elite coaching + critical mass of elite competition at academy level. Looking at the USA gives us another data point. They have a decent, and relatively lucrative domestic league now, but still haven't produced genuinely elite footballers. However, we're now starting to see more and more young American footballers move at an early age to Europe to complete their footballing education, and a much stronger generation of soccerball stars is emerging. It's quite likely that the first world class American footballer comes out of the academy of a European club. A lot of Korean and Japanese stars similarly make moves to Europe earlier in their careers. Maybe that's the pathway for Indian and Chinese talent - but I guess first they need to have a bit more of a domestic youth development pipeline.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think all regions have their characteristics and stages of development.

Europe geographically has been the ideal concentrated populations both nationally and regionally even before we consider it's position as the inventor and first mover.

SA - imported the game rapidly from Europe but suffers from geography impacting spread and development - Gibraltar to the very top of Norway is shorter than the length of Chile!

USA - tried the Harlem Globetrotter route several times and failed but subsequently have built more organically especially via girls football initially and assuming they don't fck it up again the MLS is firmly established now. **

China - have tried the Harlem Globetrotter route and are still dabbling. It's just not catching on.

Japan - great Geography and producing plenty good players. Not a rich league which drives the players to Europe as much as development imho.

SE Asia = Japan lite.

India - going nowhere fast - culturally and historically into different sports.

Australia - awful Geography and no money plus suffer from being at the @rse end of the world.

comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 11 minutes ago
I reckon they probably look up to and treat people like inventors, engineers, scientist etc as the same way we treat footballers, sportspeople and D list celebrities on this side on the world, hence, they aspire for that more than football etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------

And yet in India cricket stars are among the very biggest celebrities / earn wild sums from commercials, and China invests massively in brutal training (and PEDs) for its Olympic teams.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i should have said i was talking about China more than India and investing in their Olympic teams shows that if they actually give af about something, they go all in....which probably shows how they feel about football.

** re above, I posted this a few weeks ago but can't remember where!

MLS is expected to align calendars with Europe and play through the winter in time for their WC in 2 years. Not sure how it will work in practice but they are very altruistic with the Northern clubs already given away games in Feb / March when their ground might be a problem. Undersoil heating all very well but will fans sit through temps of -15C for 2hrs or will they still work the scheduling? BTW not much fun sitting through summer games at 35C either in Austin, Nashville etc.

USL that run the leagues below MLS intend launching a new premier tier intended to align level wise with MLS but will continue to play through the summer partly to benefit from an audience starved of a game to watch. In addition they intend to bring in promotion and relegation for the first time in mainstream US soccer!

There are USL teams that are getting overlooked for MLS franchises and they are frustrated at the pace of adoption - everyone wants a slice of the $ pie. TBF US is expert at monetising sport and why they were behind the ESL.

So, yeah, US will eventually produce big name stars but will still suffer from basketball and American football taking the tallest & widest athletes attracted by the money in these sports.

suffer from basketball and American football taking the tallest & widest athletes attracted by the money in these sports

---------------------------------------------------------------

Not sure about this. Firstly, you don't need a massive population to produce a cohort of great footballers. Look at Uruguay, Portugal, Netherlands. It's about having a strong enough development system with access to talent. Soccer will always compete with other sports in the US, but in terms of absolute numbers, there should be plenty. Secondly, I'd question whether the ideal physiques for basketball and (in particular) American football correlate with football.

My anecdotal experience is that you can play football with people from countries that don't produce great footballers and the average level is no lower than that of people who play football recreationally in footballing superpowers. (Similarly, free-for-all kick arounds on 'cage' football courts in Manchester when I was a teenager disabused me of any ideas I might have otherwise taken on that the lack of south Asian footballers in the PL reflected a lack of talent at grassroots.) I do think it's much more about the existence / absence of development pathways.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with this. I think the quality starts
to show in the lower Pyramid leagues in England


. I played at this level where we were paid to play, in leagus thst had turnstiles and paying spectators, match programmes and sponsors, local press interviews and write ups and I was managed by a couple of very famous ex England international footballers. In china and india I dont know how deep their footballl leagues go but I doubt you wont get any of that past their top 2 leagues.

Silver, good points about differences in development of the sport in different regions. On South America, I'd comment that while distances are massive, in most countries large % of the population is very concentrated in a few urban areas. It's a continent with wide areas that are very sparsely populated, and which also has dozens of 1million+ cities, several 5million+ cities, and a handful of ~10million or more. That's probably why South Americans were competing for and winning World Cups such a short time after the sport was introduced by European ex-pats.

comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 4 minutes ago
suffer from basketball and American football taking the tallest & widest athletes attracted by the money in these sports

---------------------------------------------------------------

Not sure about this. Firstly, you don't need a massive population to produce a cohort of great footballers. Look at Uruguay, Portugal, Netherlands. It's about having a strong enough development system with access to talent. Soccer will always compete with other sports in the US, but in terms of absolute numbers, there should be plenty. Secondly, I'd question whether the ideal physiques for basketball and (in particular) American football correlate with football.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There should be numbers, yes. My point was just with soccer not being the 'premier' sport (#4 actually) that your average athlete is going to gravitate towards the popular sports irrespective if they have the physique or not and if they've spent the ages 8-16 not playing serious soccer they've already missed the boat.

My lad plays over there so I've spent a fair time and what is heartening is the number of kids walking about with a football rather than anything else. And, of course the US speciality, infrastructure - when they do it they go large and vast numbers of 30 pitch resources sitting empty 95% of the week waiting for it.

comment by Robb #456 (U22716)
posted 2 hours, 52 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 2 minutes ago
Football is very popular in China, so that's a weird one. I guess they don't have the level of infrastructure required to allow for a young player to flourish.

India is fairly obvious.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Even with India though - there are loads of Indian heritage populations in football mad countries. I know there’s the cliche that their parents want them to focus on school rather than sports but you’d think a few would break through.

Locally here Indonesia has a huge population and are obsessed with football. I work with an Indonesian guy who’s shocked all the money and effort the country is throwing into the sport isn’t really paying off yet.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You may think so, however in my experience very few Indians play football at grassroots level, and the UK has a substantial Indian population.

When you think of how many players make up the top leagues from South America, Africa, Europe, then how many young players step up from grassroots into professional football, then how many of those young players are of Indian heritage, the chances are minuscule.

Can anyone name a different Chinese international that played alongside Roy Keane?

comment by Robb #456 (U22716)
posted 3 hours, 21 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 2 minutes ago
Football is very popular in China, so that's a weird one. I guess they don't have the level of infrastructure required to allow for a young player to flourish.

India is fairly obvious.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Even with India though - there are loads of Indian heritage populations in football mad countries. I know there’s the cliche that their parents want them to focus on school rather than sports but you’d think a few would break through.

Locally here Indonesia has a huge population and are obsessed with football. I work with an Indonesian guy who’s shocked all the money and effort the country is throwing into the sport isn’t really paying off yet.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Indonesia seem to be doing quite well recently. They still have an outside chance of qualifying for the World Cup, have produced some decent results over the last few years and have players playing all over Europe now rather than just the local leagues.

They've firmly established themselves as a mid-tier Asian footballing nation who in a one-off match can pose a threat to the traditional heavyweights. They can certainly draw from a large population and any Dutch nationals with Indonesian heritage.

Jimmy Carter who played for Millwall and Arsenal in the late 80s/early 90s

Carter was born on 9 November 1965, of mixed ancestry. His British surname came from a 17th-century ancestor who moved to India and married an Indian woman. His father Maurice originated from Kanpur in India, and was brought up in Lucknow.

comment by HB Fash (U21935)
posted 1 hour, 18 minutes ago
Can anyone name a different Chinese international that played alongside Roy Keane?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes

comment by HB Fash (U21935)
posted 1 day ago
Can anyone name a different Chinese international that played alongside Roy Keane?


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sum Yung Guy