. Very insightful there gummidge, why bother to state a well founded argument as to why Pato is not one of the finest attacking players in the world (when fit) when you can just pop in a smiley in an attempt to be condescending.
if anything id say the players themselves are better players now. messi and ronaldo are nothing short of incredible and i doubt we will see there like for a long time.
however football is a different game now where the teams are more competative so these star players are more closely marked and perhaps not given the freedom to dominate games quite like they used to. alot of the players on your 2001 list come from the italian league where players were given alot more time on the ball also. this could perhaps distort the view of them as players perhaps
ben
I have to agree. Look how bad Shevchenko and Veron looked in the PL.
Everyone does this, harp on about a golden age.
I'd put Rivaldo, Cafu & Valeron on the '90's' list.
FYI one guy told me Paddy McCort is the closest thing to Best. Never seen him play bar a very good goal for Celtic dribbling & all.
ben -
most of those players named by the OP were better than C.Ronaldo.
Cristiano is not a phenomenom. He's a good player who will not be remembered, let's say 30 years from now.
pato is not one of the finest attacking players in the world, he's a very good footballer but there are lots of very good footballers in the world, and he certainly would'nt make me "zone out of work" or get me "salivating".
wont be remembered didnt he just set the record for most number of goals scored in la liga? won world player of the year? still only 25?
if that doesnt get you remembered then what will?
Well that didn't come out how I wanted it to.
Cristiano is a good player but he won't be remembered as an all time great in which Messi will.
That's much better.
Players were given more time on the ball but it is worth pointing out that this was at a time when Serie A was the wealthiest league in Europe at the time which is why the top players were there.
Also I believe it was the high level of skill of Italian defenders at the time that meant players had more time on the ball, Cannavaro, Nesta, Maldini, Costacurta, Panucci, Zambrotta and Iuliano among others were excellent and did not have to resort to pressing or constant slide tackling a la John Terry to gain possession. The ball is not going to cause any harm if it is pattered about on the half way line so why chase after it?
As for a distortion of view of them as players, several of them won either WPOTY or the Ballon D'Or whilst in Italy and the rest were not far of winning themselves.
Gummidge,
Didn't say Pato was in that category, those from 2001 were, Pato, among others, is one of the closest to that level of player at present.
by Saint II Rhône (U7307)
posted 6 minutes ago
ben -
most of those players named by the OP were better than C.Ronaldo.
Cristiano is not a phenomenom.
.................................
You must be on some very potent narcotic.
Vidicshin,
Veron and Shevchenko were both poor, granted. However Shevchenko was past his peak and Veron was rather unlucky in that he had to try and squeeze into the best midfield in Europe at the time and hit the ground running like a potential WPOTY and wasn't afforded the same 'honeymoon' period that other new signings would be.
Vidicschin
Is there something wrong with my comment.
for what its worth i do think messi is the better player and im not disputing that but i do think ronaldo will be remembered to. his apparant attitude doesnt help him but from a footballing ability i still think he is incredible.
im not saying that 2001 didnt have some great players, just that it was perhaps a different game then that it is now. with tactics changing for example the growing importance of the defensive midfielder role? there are plenty of players who i watch now and they blow my mind...for example the barcelona team. this team is being touted as one of the greatest of all time
no he isn't, ronaldo, messi, xavi though, are.
Benched
Shevchenko was at his peak when Chelsea signed him.
He was 29 and had just broken the record for goals scored for Milan.
Veron made 51 appearances for United in two years.
How much more "bedding in" time do you think he needed?
comment by Saint II Rhône (U7307)
posted 4 minutes ago
Vidicschin
Is there something wrong with my comment.
.........................
Yes, the words.
Gummidge,
So Pato is not one of the finest attackers in the world at present?
Bar Messi and Ronaldo because they are on a different planet lately who is a better striker? Villa arguably but he is not as quick or skilful, Drogba is past his best, Benzema is not at the races, Tevez is merely a big fish in a small pond, Aguero has yet to justify his reputation, Rossi is simply not as good and Torres has had some sort of nervous breakdown.
Name a striker as good.
comment by Benched (U7195)
posted 5 seconds ago
Gummidge,
So Pato is not one of the finest attackers in the world at present?
....................
No he is not. He is not even the best in his own country.
ben
Out of curiosity, where would you rank Cristiano in terms of all time great?
I personally think while he is an excellent player he will not be remembered as an all time great.
Off that 2001 list the following players were better in my opinion;
Zidane
Del Piero
Ronaldo
Rui Costa
Vidicshin,
Shevchenko's case was also not helped by the fact that Mourinho didn't want him and he had reached his peak the year before, evidenced by the fact that Milan rejected an offer in 2005 twice the size of that accepted just a year later.
Veron rarely played 90 mins and was either subbed for or came on for Scholes/Beckham.
i loved del piero he was so entertaining to watch but personally i would take ronaldo ahead of him.
other ronaldo is a tough one to judge injuries and his playboy life style certainly didnt help and i think if ronaldo keeps on going as he is i do think he will become better than him at his peak. i never watched rui costa much so cant comment.
zidane however i do agree with you and would even have him ahead of messi as he managed it not just at club level but international too. the game ronaldo got the standing ovation at ot when he scored the hatrick i actually thought zidane was better that night, but thats just my personal view
Del Piero 206 career goals in 500 games at club level
Ronlado 153 career goals in 284 games at club level.
Not sure how you consider Del Piero better, given that Ronaldo has played as a winger for most of his career.
Veron rarely played 90 mins and was either subbed for or came on for Scholes/Beckham.
.........................................
What a load of tosh.
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Is football losing its 'Star Appeal'?
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posted on 14/6/11
pato,
posted on 14/6/11
. Very insightful there gummidge, why bother to state a well founded argument as to why Pato is not one of the finest attacking players in the world (when fit) when you can just pop in a smiley in an attempt to be condescending.
posted on 14/6/11
if anything id say the players themselves are better players now. messi and ronaldo are nothing short of incredible and i doubt we will see there like for a long time.
however football is a different game now where the teams are more competative so these star players are more closely marked and perhaps not given the freedom to dominate games quite like they used to. alot of the players on your 2001 list come from the italian league where players were given alot more time on the ball also. this could perhaps distort the view of them as players perhaps
posted on 14/6/11
ben
I have to agree. Look how bad Shevchenko and Veron looked in the PL.
posted on 14/6/11
Everyone does this, harp on about a golden age.
I'd put Rivaldo, Cafu & Valeron on the '90's' list.
FYI one guy told me Paddy McCort is the closest thing to Best. Never seen him play bar a very good goal for Celtic dribbling & all.
posted on 14/6/11
ben -
most of those players named by the OP were better than C.Ronaldo.
Cristiano is not a phenomenom. He's a good player who will not be remembered, let's say 30 years from now.
posted on 14/6/11
pato is not one of the finest attacking players in the world, he's a very good footballer but there are lots of very good footballers in the world, and he certainly would'nt make me "zone out of work" or get me "salivating".
posted on 14/6/11
wont be remembered didnt he just set the record for most number of goals scored in la liga? won world player of the year? still only 25?
if that doesnt get you remembered then what will?
posted on 14/6/11
Well that didn't come out how I wanted it to.
Cristiano is a good player but he won't be remembered as an all time great in which Messi will.
That's much better.
posted on 14/6/11
Players were given more time on the ball but it is worth pointing out that this was at a time when Serie A was the wealthiest league in Europe at the time which is why the top players were there.
Also I believe it was the high level of skill of Italian defenders at the time that meant players had more time on the ball, Cannavaro, Nesta, Maldini, Costacurta, Panucci, Zambrotta and Iuliano among others were excellent and did not have to resort to pressing or constant slide tackling a la John Terry to gain possession. The ball is not going to cause any harm if it is pattered about on the half way line so why chase after it?
As for a distortion of view of them as players, several of them won either WPOTY or the Ballon D'Or whilst in Italy and the rest were not far of winning themselves.
posted on 14/6/11
Gummidge,
Didn't say Pato was in that category, those from 2001 were, Pato, among others, is one of the closest to that level of player at present.
posted on 14/6/11
by Saint II Rhône (U7307)
posted 6 minutes ago
ben -
most of those players named by the OP were better than C.Ronaldo.
Cristiano is not a phenomenom.
.................................
You must be on some very potent narcotic.
posted on 14/6/11
Vidicshin,
Veron and Shevchenko were both poor, granted. However Shevchenko was past his peak and Veron was rather unlucky in that he had to try and squeeze into the best midfield in Europe at the time and hit the ground running like a potential WPOTY and wasn't afforded the same 'honeymoon' period that other new signings would be.
posted on 14/6/11
Vidicschin
Is there something wrong with my comment.
posted on 14/6/11
for what its worth i do think messi is the better player and im not disputing that but i do think ronaldo will be remembered to. his apparant attitude doesnt help him but from a footballing ability i still think he is incredible.
im not saying that 2001 didnt have some great players, just that it was perhaps a different game then that it is now. with tactics changing for example the growing importance of the defensive midfielder role? there are plenty of players who i watch now and they blow my mind...for example the barcelona team. this team is being touted as one of the greatest of all time
posted on 14/6/11
no he isn't, ronaldo, messi, xavi though, are.
posted on 14/6/11
Benched
Shevchenko was at his peak when Chelsea signed him.
He was 29 and had just broken the record for goals scored for Milan.
Veron made 51 appearances for United in two years.
How much more "bedding in" time do you think he needed?
posted on 14/6/11
comment by Saint II Rhône (U7307)
posted 4 minutes ago
Vidicschin
Is there something wrong with my comment.
.........................
Yes, the words.
posted on 14/6/11
Gummidge,
So Pato is not one of the finest attackers in the world at present?
Bar Messi and Ronaldo because they are on a different planet lately who is a better striker? Villa arguably but he is not as quick or skilful, Drogba is past his best, Benzema is not at the races, Tevez is merely a big fish in a small pond, Aguero has yet to justify his reputation, Rossi is simply not as good and Torres has had some sort of nervous breakdown.
Name a striker as good.
posted on 14/6/11
comment by Benched (U7195)
posted 5 seconds ago
Gummidge,
So Pato is not one of the finest attackers in the world at present?
....................
No he is not. He is not even the best in his own country.
posted on 14/6/11
ben
Out of curiosity, where would you rank Cristiano in terms of all time great?
I personally think while he is an excellent player he will not be remembered as an all time great.
Off that 2001 list the following players were better in my opinion;
Zidane
Del Piero
Ronaldo
Rui Costa
posted on 14/6/11
Vidicshin,
Shevchenko's case was also not helped by the fact that Mourinho didn't want him and he had reached his peak the year before, evidenced by the fact that Milan rejected an offer in 2005 twice the size of that accepted just a year later.
Veron rarely played 90 mins and was either subbed for or came on for Scholes/Beckham.
posted on 14/6/11
i loved del piero he was so entertaining to watch but personally i would take ronaldo ahead of him.
other ronaldo is a tough one to judge injuries and his playboy life style certainly didnt help and i think if ronaldo keeps on going as he is i do think he will become better than him at his peak. i never watched rui costa much so cant comment.
zidane however i do agree with you and would even have him ahead of messi as he managed it not just at club level but international too. the game ronaldo got the standing ovation at ot when he scored the hatrick i actually thought zidane was better that night, but thats just my personal view
posted on 14/6/11
Del Piero 206 career goals in 500 games at club level
Ronlado 153 career goals in 284 games at club level.
Not sure how you consider Del Piero better, given that Ronaldo has played as a winger for most of his career.
posted on 14/6/11
Veron rarely played 90 mins and was either subbed for or came on for Scholes/Beckham.
.........................................
What a load of tosh.
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