You should allow English clubs to enter B teams into your league system, below the SPL.

No to the first idea. Isn't going to happen, wouldn't benefit anyone but the teams that would normally be in Division One.

The argument that fans are bored of seeing the same teams is nonsense. More fans turn up when the bigger clubs are in town. Financially every team would be worse off in terms of ticket sales, and more importantly tv money.

The fact the league is so tight this year isn't evidence to increase the size, it simply shows that we don't need to change the league size.

Why would youth development would improve by having a greater size of league? The only reason would be that the league would be less competitive, and so more youth would be played. We have young players breaking through as we are.

The idea that by changing the league size we will sort Scottish football problems is nonsense.

Second idea I agree with.

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

Renegade. For the record, the youth development is largely the result of B team competative football. However, you can argue that by increaseing the SPL size, you increase the number of players playing at the top level and therefore have a greater stage on which to impress and increase their profile. This effect is shown by Hamilton. After 1 season in the SPL the majority of their team was stripped by EPL teams. Now I don't like talent going south but I can't argue with cash coming North and it highlights the effect of increasing a players profile purely by playing at a higher level, and with increasesing players profiles who would otherwise be near anonymous, one increases the national selection pool as a result. In short, doesn't increase youth development directly, mainly profile. I don't think for instance a player like Leigh Grittiths would have stayed at Dundee (in their financial situation) as long as he did if he had been getting more screen time.

Renegade, you are way off mate. Firstly the game is dying a death here and change of some nature needs to be implemented.

Opening up the league is the best option. You think that fans turn out for the big games? Totally untrue. Our only sell-out is the derbies, we have not had one for 5 years. We never sell-out for the OF. If we allow a larger league with the likes of Dundee, Raith, Morton, Thistle, Falkirk and Ross County in it will create a far more appealing product in due course.

We would have derby games back in Dundee, Fife, Renrewshire and the Highlands. People need to realise that crowds are dropping and this is going to get worse. We can not just constantly rely on TV money. At any point Sky/ESPN can turn round and say "the product is not good enough and the stadiums are empty, we're pulling the plug". Then where do we go?

The only way to ensure the long-term inmprovement of the game is to get fans coming through the turnstile. We have to increase the league subsequently increasing the number of games which will generate interest.

If something is not done the game will be dead here before peope realise.

comment by Arabian Knight (U4850)

Not way off at all.

You are way off if you think clubs will not see ticket revenues drop.

Fact is, more fans will turn out to see Rangers, Celtic, Hearts, Aberdeen, Dundee United than Morton, Falkirk, Raith and Ross County. Overall there would be less games of interest.

Sky/Espn can do that at any time yes. But experts have said that inceasing the league size will see less money from Sky/Espn.

You have to understand Renegade that the product is getting poorer and poorer. As a result attendances are falling hugely, this is happening at every club. Do you think we should just carry on down this road?

Ticket revenue is dropping alarmingly anyway so that argument is not valid. It is now a case of just sit back and watch the game in Scotland slowly die or actually recognise the problems and attempt to implement change for future improvement.

There are plenty of things that can be done other than changing the league size.

Increasing the league size will only see less money, and poorer standard of football in general.

As we are the league is highly competitive. What is more attractive than that other than quality? The problem isn't the league size.

Going against the view of the experts makes next to no sense when there are so many obvious arguments that support them.

Saying that it will only see less money and poorer football is nothing but an assumption Renegade. There is nothing to suggest this will be the case. What is a fact though is that the games revenue is free falling as are attendances as we stand just now. Doing nothing will kill the game that is what all the evidence is suggesting

The league is highly competitive? It is one of the least competitive leagues in Europe. Same scenario every season, only one team up ect. It is stale and people are bored, very soon the TV companies will be too. What then?

If there are other suggestions I am most certainly open to them. However, Steven Pressley made some extremely good points on this yesterday and all the "experts" I have heard on the topic are screaming for the league to be expanded.

Assumption? No it's based on fact. Less Old Firm games, less big games in general etc. Less games that pull in big audiences. These are the games that pull in the most money from tv.

There are 7 points between 4th and 12th. Are you saying that's not competitive? Increasing the league size isn't going to see anything different in the race for the title.

Pressley is manager of Falkirk, he obviously has vested interests.
And which experts are you referring to?

As I have said Renegade very few teams sell out for the OF. Hearts possible being the only one, however recent stats show even that is no longer happening. The increased number of derby games which would result in an expanded league would instantly boost any attendances. Subsequently sides will generate greater numbers of fans paying to get in. Supporter revenue is the only sustainable means of funding for Scottish football. It is very arrogant to automatically assume that everyone sees the OF games as the big games, many people choose to give these games a miss. Aberdeen at Tannadice is viewed as a much more attractive prospect to most arabs.

The league is one of the most stale in Europe, last season Scotland was the only country not to reward the 1st divisions second place with nothing. Just because this season the league looks tight between everyone else on the 14th Nov does not make it competitive.

Tom English, Jim Traynor, Henry Mcliesh, Gordon Smith and Pat Nevin were all calling for an expanded league on BBC radio yesterday. I am not suggesting these people are experts, but who is?

Of course Pressley wants in to the SPL, however not one which is on it's knees.

Can you see the way that things are going Renegade? Take a look at the attendances for United, Hearts, Aberdeen, Hibs and Killie over the last 5 years. It is abundantly clear this is only going one way. Do we just do nothing?

What are your suggestions for ensuring the future prosperity of Scottish football?

It's not arrogant its factual

"The RST has looked into the impact of Rangers and Celtic visiting grounds last year and confirms that clubs such as Aberdeen, Kilmarnock & Motherwell's gates increase by 5k+ when Rangers or Celtic visit compared to other top 6 teams. Celtic's attendances against Rangers last year were 15k up on attendances vs other top 6 teams."

That is taken from the report that called for a smaller league. Which is something I don't agree with. I think the issue of league size is blown out of proportion.

Do you know the meaning of competitive? How competitive the SPL is has nothing to do with the second placed side in the first division. That said I would like to see a playoff game between 11th and 2nd in the first division. Pretty sure on the last days of the last two seasons there has been something to play for for almost every side in terms of final league position.

My opinion on why attendances are falling is that ticket prices simply don't represent value for money. High ticket prices with falling quality in a time of recessions makes no sense what so ever. Lower ticket prices are a must in my opinion.

Get more people in, more people spending money in the stadium, creating a better atmostphere etc. So I don't think it would see a loss in revenue.

I agree with the ideas of B sides as this article said.

Summer football or a winter break, I wouldn't mind seeing either given a go. Although not particuarly convinced summer football would bring benefits.

Didn't the SPL have a winter break a few seasons back?

Summer football is something that could work, especially in marketing it to other countries.

Question. Do you not think that if fixtures between bigger teams are rarer, corresponding attendences will be far higher. Also, one could argue our small league is the reason for the vast old firm dominance in recent years. Rather than teams trying to challenge the old firm for the league having 8 games against the big teams, they would only have 4 or 6 games against old firm teams. meaning instead of looking for maybe 4 or 5 upsets as well as consistency against the other teams (which is what would currently be required for a non-glasgow team to win, it may only require 2 good results against old firm teams for a team to be right in the title race until the end. If you argue its not an upset when the old firm lose points, look at the wage bills, you'd be kidding yourself.

For instance, this year Motherwell are showing great consistency against all non-weegie teams in the league, but when it comes to the end of the season, having played 8 games against rangers or celtic, the chances of upsetting the odds are far lower than if they had to play them fewer times.

In practice, We would experience much tighter title challenges involving far more teams from outside Glasgow, and with such increased excitement, attendences will grow once more.

Tell me if you think I'm wrong, but my logic seems sound to me.

Agreed on Summer football. It is a niche, Sky sports is a ghost town before the EPL kicks off and we'd be the only show in town.

What about Stoke? Can you take them as well?

That quote comes directly from a report conducted and written by individuals who wanted a ten team league. They had a vested interest in highlighting the numbers in which OF fans travel. All this had done is merely stated the obvious.

The report does not discuss the fact that the only sell-outs United and Aberdeen have had in the last 4 years have been against each other, not the OF. It does not highlight the fact that this is an identical statistic for the Edinburgh clubs. It does not allude to mention the fact that derbies in Renfrewshire, Dunfermline (twice, other would be Falkirk), Inverness and Dundee would be sell-outs each and every time. The space left by one less old firm game can be quickly filled with games which local people clearly see as more attractive. There is a great deal more to football in this country than Rangers and Celtic. It is arrogant to assume otherwise Renegade

I agree with all other suggestions and I think that we have to give summer football a try, although I recognise it is problematic for European competition.

Ticket prices can only be dropped if more people are coming through the gate. People are not coming for several reasons, but the most frequently stated is poor product which has now gone stale. To remedy this we need to change the product, to me this is simple.

Cheeres for the chat Renegade, off for my Sunday roast now

The report was for reducing the league to ten teams, but to push for that they obviously had their reasons.

While I don't agree with you I can see the benefits of Dundee derbies for example. But even with a bigger league there is no guarantee Dundee would be in the top league. I wasn't refering to simply the Old Firm, but the bigger teams in general.

Its just simple logic that more fans turn out to see their side against bigger teams. No arrogance at all.

That all said the league size wont change, the clubs would be in disagreement as to increase or decrease.

I have been dissapointed that for all the talk of changes, next to nothing has changed other than moving the league forward a couple weeks. Also dissapointed I'm no getting a Sunday roast!