He is not representing our country by being captain of England FC.....
------------------------------------------------
Unfortunately he is, like it or not football is watched around the world by millions.
Being guilty of racial abuse doesn't make one a racist!!
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Really? What does then. I think that's very ill informed. You use a racist tone and words that he has been accused of and you're a racist. Same with Suerez. They are derogatory words that a person with no racist tendancies would'nt make.
------------------------------------------------------------------
You have to consider the circumstances and the amount of times it has occurred previously. You also have to consider the accused general life style.
The FA were very careful to stress that they did not believe Suarez to be racist.
Calling someone a BC in a heat of the moment exchange in an adrenaline fueled environment is not in itself evidence that the guilty person is racist!
Carrickature
You keep suggesting that JT should have stepped down - but why?
He's clearly convinced he is innocent of the charges against him and is willing to go to court to prove it.
why should he resign a position he has coveted, above all others i should add, because of a yet anonomous accusation of something he claims was taken completely out of context.
In my mind Capello, as an Italian, has stood up for the basic legal rights any Englishman has, of being innocent until proven guilty.
But because were so strung up on anything remotely racial, we throw these hard fought for freedoms to the wall.
It's a shame it takes an Italian to show the British some backbone and stand up for what is everyone's right - a chance to prove their innocence.
PS if JT is guilty then I'm happy for England and CFC to throw the book at him.
What i find funny is most of the posh boy's and goody 2 shoes trying to take the moral highground over this issue have probably blurted a racial phrase as an accidental, slip of the tongue and dismissed it as banter.
So can i ask (as their is people on here that would have done it without question), you don;t have to answer this publicly just in your head, do you class yourself as racist or just a bit of a plank that let something slip he shouldn't have?
IF Terry said that it would have been the same with him, not condoning it and if he did he should be punished but the hollier than hou little miss perfect brigade are starting to hack me off something new.
You have to consider the circumstances and the amount of times it has occurred previously. You also have to consider the accused general life style.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hiddink apparently interested in taking over. If thats the case doubt it would spell the end for Terry after all
Hiddink would be brill for England, don't think it'll happen, they're obsessed with the idea of an English manager.
Hiddink is a genius, he could actually pull the Euro's off for England.
If you're ever going to have an English manager, now is the time - we've already qualified.
The role of England Captain is not a job, it is more a title or an honour, say for an example a knighthood.
It comes with benefits and privileges again just like a knighthood.
So I have to ash the question,....
If Sir Alex Ferguson was facing a court trial for racial abuse, would he give up his knighthood pending the court case? Would he step down as manager of United?
Would there be immense public pressure for him to take both actions?
I suspect not!
Calling someone a BC in a heat of the moment exchange in an adrenaline fueled environment is not in itself evidence that the guilty person is racist!
You have to consider the circumstances and the amount of times it has occurred previously. You also have to consider the accused general life style.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What rubbish. I would never utter any of these words alleged because I'm not a racist and it's simply not in my make up to do it. I've heard people saying in the heat of the moment, or in an angry moment, that doesn't make it right. If you have that in your vocabulary then there is some feeling inside you of contempt towards someone who is different to you. Different in race. Speaking as someone who from an ethnic minority if someone says that to me in any context is is offensive and racist. This talk of circumstances and how many times it has happnened before is disgusting. Once is too much.
it depends if it is acceptable friendly made up language in your hometown Carrickature
carrickature (U12844)
Well there are plenty of black sportsmen who have been on the receiving end of such abuse in match circumstances who share this exact view and have stated so.
So it clearly is not rubbish.
In such situations when the red mist descends depending on who the anger is being vented at one could say............fat c, bald c,ugly c, skinny c, shortarse etc etc
These are not phrases based on prejudice, but on a desire to strike the most hurtful verbal blow one can do.
They are equally as bad as calling someone a BC in the same circumstances.
it depends if it is acceptable friendly made up language in your hometown Carrickature
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly, its how the victim perceives the insult that counts. If someone is happy to be called that then more fool them but I'm not. It really doesn't matter what is acceptable in your home town, in the heat of the moment, or how many times you say it. You say it and you tread the wire of being branded a racist because you run the risk of deeply offending someone.
I've heard people saying in the heat of the moment, or in an angry moment, that doesn't make it right.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
I never said it made it right,it is still racial abuse and right punishable.
But a single remote act in such circumstances does not automatically make the offender a racist. And that is why the FA were very clear on this issue in their statement and that is why people such as John Barnes, far more qualified on the subject than either of us make this view their own
I think "dance with the devil2 was being sarcastic
These are not phrases based on prejudice, but on a desire to strike the most hurtful verbal blow one can do.
They are equally as bad as calling someone a BC in the same circumstances.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
I must say I am shocked. You just can't categorise this and say because a black sportsment thought it was ok it's ok. If someone is offended by it and it has a racial tone and they complain and that person is found guilty then they are a racist. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but on this you walk a thin line like I say. Calling someone what Suerez did is out of order and derogatory with the intention of offending them. If you have it in you to use that word then you have racist tendancies. Someone who is not racist would not have it in their vocabulary.
These are not phrases based on prejudice, but on a desire to strike the most hurtful verbal blow one can do.
--------------------
This is an important distinction, where you can certainly argue that making a racial slur in anger, or jest, or out of calculated spite even, does not necessarily make you racist. It makes you someone who wanted to hurt that indiviual and is using the strongest language at their disposal.
carrickature (U12844)
Why will you not read what I am saying and absorb it before responding?
I am not saying that racist abuse is ok, I have gone out of my way to state that it is not.
The debate is whether it makes the offender automatically a racist!
I was using the 'Suarez defence'
<sarcasticsmiley>
If you have it in you to use that word then you have racist tendancies. Someone who is not racist would not have it in their vocabulary.
-------------------------------
Not exactly shure what racist tendencies means, but I disagree with the last point. Everyone who has heard the word(s) has is in their vocabulary. People with poor vocabularies or who are generally ignorant would tend to utter the words more often than others.
If you have it in you to use that word then you have racist tendancies. Someone who is not racist would not have it in their vocabulary.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Well there are people, black victims of racial abuse on the sports field, who don´t share your view.
Why can´t you accept that what you feel may actually not be right, however strongly you feel it?
Unfortunately he is, like it or not football is watched around the world by millions
-
That means f all. Footballers do not represent anything beyond football.
Dont normally agree with Chelsea fans as a Liverpool fan, but some very very good points made by most of you.
Facts
1 Terry is a good leader / captain
2 Terry loves England and gives 100%
3 The manager Capello was spot on to stick to his guns
4 The FA couldn't run a bath
5 They were wrong to take arm band off Terry
6 The press have s#it stirred and will now get months worth of stories from this saga
I hope England the team are made to look as silly as the FA do come the cha,pionships in June
The FA and press are a f...ng national disgrace
Sign in if you want to comment
John Terry´s England career over!
Page 2 of 3
posted on 8/2/12
He is not representing our country by being captain of England FC.....
------------------------------------------------
Unfortunately he is, like it or not football is watched around the world by millions.
posted on 8/2/12
Being guilty of racial abuse doesn't make one a racist!!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Really? What does then. I think that's very ill informed. You use a racist tone and words that he has been accused of and you're a racist. Same with Suerez. They are derogatory words that a person with no racist tendancies would'nt make.
------------------------------------------------------------------
You have to consider the circumstances and the amount of times it has occurred previously. You also have to consider the accused general life style.
The FA were very careful to stress that they did not believe Suarez to be racist.
Calling someone a BC in a heat of the moment exchange in an adrenaline fueled environment is not in itself evidence that the guilty person is racist!
posted on 8/2/12
Carrickature
You keep suggesting that JT should have stepped down - but why?
He's clearly convinced he is innocent of the charges against him and is willing to go to court to prove it.
why should he resign a position he has coveted, above all others i should add, because of a yet anonomous accusation of something he claims was taken completely out of context.
In my mind Capello, as an Italian, has stood up for the basic legal rights any Englishman has, of being innocent until proven guilty.
But because were so strung up on anything remotely racial, we throw these hard fought for freedoms to the wall.
It's a shame it takes an Italian to show the British some backbone and stand up for what is everyone's right - a chance to prove their innocence.
PS if JT is guilty then I'm happy for England and CFC to throw the book at him.
posted on 8/2/12
What i find funny is most of the posh boy's and goody 2 shoes trying to take the moral highground over this issue have probably blurted a racial phrase as an accidental, slip of the tongue and dismissed it as banter.
So can i ask (as their is people on here that would have done it without question), you don;t have to answer this publicly just in your head, do you class yourself as racist or just a bit of a plank that let something slip he shouldn't have?
IF Terry said that it would have been the same with him, not condoning it and if he did he should be punished but the hollier than hou little miss perfect brigade are starting to hack me off something new.
posted on 8/2/12
You have to consider the circumstances and the amount of times it has occurred previously. You also have to consider the accused general life style.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 8/2/12
Hiddink apparently interested in taking over. If thats the case doubt it would spell the end for Terry after all
posted on 8/2/12
Hiddink would be brill for England, don't think it'll happen, they're obsessed with the idea of an English manager.
posted on 8/2/12
Hiddink is a genius, he could actually pull the Euro's off for England.
posted on 8/2/12
If you're ever going to have an English manager, now is the time - we've already qualified.
posted on 8/2/12
The role of England Captain is not a job, it is more a title or an honour, say for an example a knighthood.
It comes with benefits and privileges again just like a knighthood.
So I have to ash the question,....
If Sir Alex Ferguson was facing a court trial for racial abuse, would he give up his knighthood pending the court case? Would he step down as manager of United?
Would there be immense public pressure for him to take both actions?
I suspect not!
posted on 8/2/12
Calling someone a BC in a heat of the moment exchange in an adrenaline fueled environment is not in itself evidence that the guilty person is racist!
You have to consider the circumstances and the amount of times it has occurred previously. You also have to consider the accused general life style.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What rubbish. I would never utter any of these words alleged because I'm not a racist and it's simply not in my make up to do it. I've heard people saying in the heat of the moment, or in an angry moment, that doesn't make it right. If you have that in your vocabulary then there is some feeling inside you of contempt towards someone who is different to you. Different in race. Speaking as someone who from an ethnic minority if someone says that to me in any context is is offensive and racist. This talk of circumstances and how many times it has happnened before is disgusting. Once is too much.
posted on 8/2/12
it depends if it is acceptable friendly made up language in your hometown Carrickature
posted on 8/2/12
carrickature (U12844)
Well there are plenty of black sportsmen who have been on the receiving end of such abuse in match circumstances who share this exact view and have stated so.
So it clearly is not rubbish.
In such situations when the red mist descends depending on who the anger is being vented at one could say............fat c, bald c,ugly c, skinny c, shortarse etc etc
These are not phrases based on prejudice, but on a desire to strike the most hurtful verbal blow one can do.
They are equally as bad as calling someone a BC in the same circumstances.
posted on 8/2/12
it depends if it is acceptable friendly made up language in your hometown Carrickature
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly, its how the victim perceives the insult that counts. If someone is happy to be called that then more fool them but I'm not. It really doesn't matter what is acceptable in your home town, in the heat of the moment, or how many times you say it. You say it and you tread the wire of being branded a racist because you run the risk of deeply offending someone.
posted on 8/2/12
I've heard people saying in the heat of the moment, or in an angry moment, that doesn't make it right.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
I never said it made it right,it is still racial abuse and right punishable.
But a single remote act in such circumstances does not automatically make the offender a racist. And that is why the FA were very clear on this issue in their statement and that is why people such as John Barnes, far more qualified on the subject than either of us make this view their own
posted on 8/2/12
I think "dance with the devil2 was being sarcastic
posted on 8/2/12
These are not phrases based on prejudice, but on a desire to strike the most hurtful verbal blow one can do.
They are equally as bad as calling someone a BC in the same circumstances.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
I must say I am shocked. You just can't categorise this and say because a black sportsment thought it was ok it's ok. If someone is offended by it and it has a racial tone and they complain and that person is found guilty then they are a racist. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but on this you walk a thin line like I say. Calling someone what Suerez did is out of order and derogatory with the intention of offending them. If you have it in you to use that word then you have racist tendancies. Someone who is not racist would not have it in their vocabulary.
posted on 8/2/12
These are not phrases based on prejudice, but on a desire to strike the most hurtful verbal blow one can do.
--------------------
This is an important distinction, where you can certainly argue that making a racial slur in anger, or jest, or out of calculated spite even, does not necessarily make you racist. It makes you someone who wanted to hurt that indiviual and is using the strongest language at their disposal.
posted on 8/2/12
carrickature (U12844)
Why will you not read what I am saying and absorb it before responding?
I am not saying that racist abuse is ok, I have gone out of my way to state that it is not.
The debate is whether it makes the offender automatically a racist!
posted on 8/2/12
I was using the 'Suarez defence'
<sarcasticsmiley>
posted on 8/2/12
If you have it in you to use that word then you have racist tendancies. Someone who is not racist would not have it in their vocabulary.
-------------------------------
Not exactly shure what racist tendencies means, but I disagree with the last point. Everyone who has heard the word(s) has is in their vocabulary. People with poor vocabularies or who are generally ignorant would tend to utter the words more often than others.
posted on 8/2/12
If you have it in you to use that word then you have racist tendancies. Someone who is not racist would not have it in their vocabulary.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Well there are people, black victims of racial abuse on the sports field, who don´t share your view.
Why can´t you accept that what you feel may actually not be right, however strongly you feel it?
posted on 8/2/12
Unfortunately he is, like it or not football is watched around the world by millions
-
That means f all. Footballers do not represent anything beyond football.
posted on 8/2/12
Dont normally agree with Chelsea fans as a Liverpool fan, but some very very good points made by most of you.
Facts
1 Terry is a good leader / captain
2 Terry loves England and gives 100%
3 The manager Capello was spot on to stick to his guns
4 The FA couldn't run a bath
5 They were wrong to take arm band off Terry
6 The press have s#it stirred and will now get months worth of stories from this saga
I hope England the team are made to look as silly as the FA do come the cha,pionships in June
The FA and press are a f...ng national disgrace
posted on 8/2/12
^This
Page 2 of 3