The difference is, your club, as professionals, knew precisely what finishing 4th would entail if an English club below 4th won the CL.

Everton that season wouldn't have known this. You are acting like a child. Just grow up, OP.

There were many other factors.

Basically the FA choses who represents them in Europe. They decided that 4th place deserves the place no matter what.
This upset UEFA, as they wanted the holders to defend their title. It happened before, in Spain, where the Spanish FA took the decision to give the CL winners a place ahead of 4th place.
TNS, Wales representitives in the Champions League, then saw a money making opportunity and offered to play Liverpool in a play off for their place.

Not wanting a repeat, UEFA changed the rules to avoid holders not getting the opportunity to defend their title.

Without doubt if Manchester United or Real Madrid etc missed out on CL qualification under our circumstances the rules would be changed to accommodate them in a heartbeat.

Robin V Per - you just don't like the facts. The 'rules are the rules' argument has just been blown out of the water. UEFA changed the rules for the entire qualification process the last time it happened to a rich club.

Stop being such a cry baby OP

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"Not wanting a repeat, UEFA changed the rules to avoid holders not getting the opportunity to defend their title."

Because it would percieved to be unfair is Liverpool were not allowed back

It is equally unfair Spurs are not in it as a direct result of that rule change stemming from Liverpool winning it

But Liverpool get the rules changed. Spurs don't. Still think money and lobbying power has nothing to do with it?

One thing for sure is that if arsenal had finished 4th which you very nearly did, you would be moaning about it to so don't say you wouldn't

There was a grey area back then but I think that UEFA closed the loop hole.

In my opinion I think that Chelsea should have to qualify from the first round of the CL and not take 4th spot. The Law is an A$$ in this case. I wonder if we have a case and if Levy is chasing the matter through legal channels?

RC, the rules were clear this season.

In the case of Liverpool/Everton, there was no clear rule. The FA did not make its position clear at the beginning of the season.


At the end of the day Spurs had 3rd place in their control. They knew the dangers of finishing 4th, as the rules are clear.


And I wonder if your opinion would be the same if Arsenal had finished 4th?

Didn't UEFA also change it because Liverpool won the European cup for the fifth time?

One thing for sure is that if arsenal had finished 4th which you very nearly did, you would be moaning about it to so don't say you wouldn't
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And, like we are to you now, you'd be telling us to grow up.

"RC, the rules were clear this season."

The rules were clear in the 05 case. The rules were CHANGED as a result of them seeming 'unfair' on Liverpool Are you Arsenal donkeys going to be willfully blind over this

I know this a top time for you, but at least recognise evidence when it's stairing you in the face.

Let's keep this objective, no pointing and laughing please. This has potential to be a decent talking point and I would rather not start reading a "WUM" thread.

Look at the Euro and Word Cup qualifications, after France messed up dramatically in 2002 they made it compulsory for the Champions to qualify. Champions do not have the right to defend their title on the international scene, so why has this happened on the Club stage?

Of course we would of laughed if boot was on the other foot but I would of said that it was unfair and rule should be changed .... Yes we messed up 3rd but be thankful for that or you wold be in our place today

The current holders have to be in it, by definition.
Blame UEFA and their Champions greed format.

Would be no such problems in the old days for an anti-PL UEFA, as there would only be at most 2, not 5, English teams going for the "Champions cup" .

Everything is just so unfair

"Champions do not have the right to defend their title on the international scene, so why has this happened on the Club stage?"

Has always been so in UEFA land.
The holders could defend again, unless they had qualified for a better tournament.

Champions > UEFA > CW cup.

"The current holders have to be in it, by definition.
Blame UEFA and their Champions greed format."

No, not by definition

Only because the rules were changed to allow that when Liverpool finished 5th and won the competition. You see how the rules were changed as a result of that?

RC the rules were not clear in 2005. There was no rule to who gets the place 4th place or CL winners.
The Spanish FA decided CL winners, the FA decided 4th place.

This decision was only made when it became a real possibility that Liverpool would win and miss top 4.

You knew a long time ago that if you finished 4th and Chelsea won you would miss out.
There was no such clue distinction in 2005.

I love how all the Arsenal fans etc are on their high horse claiming "it's the rules" ....i bet you wouldn't be so rule loving if this happened to you, you would be livid if you got 4th and it was snatched away like this. I really don't care if we knew the outcome, we got 4th and should be playing in the champions league. 5 english teams should be going through.

add912 points out another example of hypocrisy in football governance.

The rules have zero to do with it

It is about money - and lobbying power. That is all.

Don, we knew the situation. That is why we were desperate to finish 3rd.

Why weren't these articles written ages ago? Have you lot only just found out?

If it was Arsenal, there is a decent possibility UEFA would have considered special dispensation tbh. I think because we only qualified once before they calculated we don't really matter.

"No, not by definition"

Yes. As I stated elsewhere.
Therefore the "rules" had to be re-written to account for this basic tenet.