I don't understand why people can't see that certain players in the squad are holding us back. Having Evra, Rio, and Vidic in there waaaaay past their best is having a detrimental effect on the way we defend as a team which guess what, is massively important to our success.
Add that to having Rooney and RVP up front who really haven't got the same ability as a twosome that Sturridge and Suarez have and there is a problem.
People will say... if those players are a problem why are they still there? The answer to that is that they have contracts and may not have wanted to leave last summer. There is only a certain amount of things Moyes can do in one season.
Luckily for him those 3 defenders are leaving this summer (3 huge figures in the dressing room btw) and we can start afresh with defenders who not only have the hunger but also the ability (rather than once had the ability).
Moyes did beat the bigger sides with Everton though.
He beat Arsenal, City, Liverpool, Chelsea, United in the past 4 seasons. Okay, he didn't win any away but scoring 4 goals at OT when we were title favourites is a big plus point and last season he was a wrongly disallowed goal from winning at Anfield.
This season he's beaten Arsenal and Liverpool with us and navigated us to the CL quarters so the idea that he never beats the big teams is ridiculous.
Cantona,
Almost everyone who wants Moyes replaces recognises our squad deficiencies. In August I would have rated City and Chelsea as having better squads and arguably Spurs as well.
The only Liverpool players I would have had in a combined Utd/Pool XI were Suarez, Gerrard and Agger. On paper we were still good enough for champions league places, add in £70m of investment and you would have expected us to be challenging for the title.
Benched
So you accept that City and Chelsea have better squads but think we're better than Liverpool even though some have them as favourites for the title?
No, we shouldn't be 7th but coming in the top 4 this season would have been a challenge even for SAF.
On paper in August we had a better squad than Liverpool.
What has changed since for them is the impact of an adequate manager.
I did not expect us to challenge for the title this year no matter who was in charge but our performances lack any evidence of positive influence from the manager.
comment by OOH_AH_Cantona (U3577)
posted 7 minutes ago
We could spend 300 million in the summer and still won't finish I'm the top 4 with moyes. I wanted him to be a success but his tactics are woeful at best. At Everton he was abysmal against the big teams and he has carried that over with us. We have good enough players now to at least give the big sides a good game. Yes on paper city should beat us but we had 2 shots on target, 2. We don't even look like drawing games against big sides.
Tactics are a massive part of football. Look at Liverpool on paper they have nowhere near the squad to win the league but Rodgers tactics and management is getting that out of them. Jose and his tactics could win Chelsea the prem when City have by far the better players. Fergie last year won us the league at a centre.
It doesn't matter how much moyes spends he will still have poor tactical knowledge . One win in 13 games against the top 9 is a joke. People are talking like we have a championship squad and need all this money spent. Yes we may not have an amazing squad but we are good enough to score more than 18 at home and win against the likes of west brom, Southampton Newcastle at home etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
exactly, on paper only City have better squad than us ,we are clearly better than Everton and Spurs, yet we are behind them and its not because of poor tactics and bad management, Its because of lack of luck
also because of rio, who hardly played this season and Vidic, who is still better than most CBs in PL. Why it is so hard to see Moyes gets tactically out done by almost all managers in PL? even Poet got sunderland to win a two legged tie against us ffs
"No, we shouldn't be 7th but coming in the top 4 this season would have been a challenge even for SAF."
Does anyone really believe that?
Really?
comment by #Robb (U19350)
posted 4 minutes ago
I don't understand why people can't see that certain players in the squad are holding us back. Having Evra, Rio, and Vidic in there waaaaay past their best is having a detrimental effect on the way we defend as a team which guess what, is massively important to our success.
Add that to having Rooney and RVP up front who really haven't got the same ability as a twosome that Sturridge and Suarez have and there is a problem.
**********************
More of the same rubbish. Every single person here would agree wholeheartedly that with fergie here, we will be in a better position. Players do not become rubbish overnight. Take a look at Terry and lampard under AVB. They were deemed on their way out and the reason for his "style" working. Yet another manager comes in, uses them in the right system and tactics and terry at 34 is all of a sudden playing brilliantly and lampard has managed to outscore our midfield AGAIN.
Managers effect the production of players. When the production of champions drop off a cliff in 7 months, I see an AVB clueless management effect not the players good for 5 year suddenly becoming useless. It is the exact same thing happening to our team.
Regarding the Sunderland game -
Did Poyet tactically outwit us or did DDG drop the ball with seconds to go?
The same Poyet who knocked Jose and Chelsea out of the league cup and pushed City all the way in the final.
comment by #Robb (U19350)
posted 34 minutes ago
MuDD
It's a stupid question because you're making a wild assumption that people on here want him to have unlimited time.
I can't speak for anyone else nor do I want to.
====================
That is not what I have said at all. I asked you a very simple question and have not suggested Moyes should be given unlimited time.
I said, some people will want him to have the same amount of time Fergie was given to turn things around. Was that unlimited? Of course not.
My question is simple and I will post it again, next year when you give up on Moyes and those people who want him to get the same amount of time Fergie was given to get it right (not unlimited), what will your retort to them be?
SAF and mourinho would have had us in the top 2. Years this season are still being rather inconsistent. Liverpool are on a great run at the moment but SAF and Jose would have us in the top 2 at least 3rd.
comment by #Robb (U19350)
posted 11 seconds ago
Regarding the Sunderland game -
Did Poyet tactically outwit us or did DDG drop the ball with seconds to go?
The same Poyet who knocked Jose and Chelsea out of the league cup and pushed City all the way in the final.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He knocked Jose out in one game, its a cup game, sht happens.
He knocked us out over 2 legs and pushed City but was blown away.
You have to respect what he has done at Sunderland though with past it players not deemed good enough for Utd
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by #Robb (U19350)
posted 34 minutes ago
MuDD
It's a stupid question because you're making a wild assumption that people on here want him to have unlimited time.
I can't speak for anyone else nor do I want to.
====================
That is not what I have said at all. I asked you a very simple question and have not suggested Moyes should be given unlimited time.
I said, some people will want him to have the same amount of time Fergie was given to turn things around. Was that unlimited? Of course not.
My question is simple and I will post it again, next year when you give up on Moyes and those people who want him to get the same amount of time Fergie was given to get it right (not unlimited), what will your retort to them be?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I simply don't believe a single person on here thinks Moyes should have a SAF style amount of time.
And besides, I still don't get what you're asking.
I've laid out what I think is a realistic expectation for Moyes. Again, I don't think a single person on here will still argue for Moyes if he fails those targets I have set.
if ANYONE still wants Moyes after that i'll be very surprised and will ask them for their reasons why.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 minutes ago
"No, we shouldn't be 7th but coming in the top 4 this season would have been a challenge even for SAF."
Does anyone really believe that?
Really?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Robb does my good man. The funny thing is that if Moyes was a competent manager we would be in the title race.
The only reason we are not in the title race is our form at home.
West Brom
Newcastle
Everton
Spurs
Southampton
Fulham
2 points from 18 at Old Trafford? Sorry that is gross incompetence
comment by #Robb (U19350)
posted 1 minute ago
Regarding the Sunderland game -
Did Poyet tactically outwit us or did DDG drop the ball with seconds to go?
The same Poyet who knocked Jose and Chelsea out of the league cup and pushed City all the way in the final.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We scraped into extra time with them after playing two games.
Chelsea suffered for the lack of a decent striker, missing a few sitters. Jose also played a number of fringe players in this game (Schwarzer, Cole, Mikel, De Bruyne, Schurrle)
comment by #Robb (U19350)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by #Robb (U19350)
posted 34 minutes ago
MuDD
It's a stupid question because you're making a wild assumption that people on here want him to have unlimited time.
I can't speak for anyone else nor do I want to.
====================
That is not what I have said at all. I asked you a very simple question and have not suggested Moyes should be given unlimited time.
I said, some people will want him to have the same amount of time Fergie was given to turn things around. Was that unlimited? Of course not.
My question is simple and I will post it again, next year when you give up on Moyes and those people who want him to get the same amount of time Fergie was given to get it right (not unlimited), what will your retort to them be?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I simply don't believe a single person on here thinks Moyes should have a SAF style amount of time.
And besides, I still don't get what you're asking.
I've laid out what I think is a realistic expectation for Moyes. Again, I don't think a single person on here will still argue for Moyes if he fails those targets I have set.
if ANYONE still wants Moyes after that i'll be very surprised and will ask them for their reasons why.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What about if they call you a plastic, a fickle fan and say they still believe in Moyes?
Surely they can set targets for him again, after all that will be his first season with his kind of players, right?
comment by #Robb (U19350)
posted 4 minutes ago
Regarding the Sunderland game -
Did Poyet tactically outwit us or did DDG drop the ball with seconds to go?
The same Poyet who knocked Jose and Chelsea out of the league cup and pushed City all the way in the final.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We lost most games because we couldnt control the game and our offensive game plan was none existing apart from cross, United loose a two legged tie against a team battling relegation because GK conceded a goal by accident
Robb
again, what do you think about tactics and attacking play against Liverpool and City?
comment by Benched (U7195)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by #Robb (U19350)
posted 1 minute ago
Regarding the Sunderland game -
Did Poyet tactically outwit us or did DDG drop the ball with seconds to go?
The same Poyet who knocked Jose and Chelsea out of the league cup and pushed City all the way in the final.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We scraped into extra time with them after playing two games.
Chelsea suffered for the lack of a decent striker, missing a few sitters. Jose also played a number of fringe players in this game (Schwarzer, Cole, Mikel, De Bruyne, Schurrle)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many of our top players played against Sunderland in the second leg?
Buttner and Fletcher started. No Rooney, RVP or Mata.
Sunderland didn't just beat us they dominated us. We made them look like Barcelona and were chasing shadows all game. This is Sunderland, it doesn't matter what players we played.
Robb
again, what do you think about tactics and attacking play against Liverpool and City?
------------------------------------------------------
We lost to two better teams because of some comical defending.
Tactics go out the window when your defence are awful.
If Moyes didn't put out a team strong enough to beat Sunderland when he could have then that is more damning.
Fletcher is one of our better CM's. Buttner will be playing in a CL quarter final on Tuesday.
comment by OOH_AH_Cantona (U3577)
posted 54 seconds ago
Sunderland didn't just beat us they dominated us. We made them look like Barcelona and were chasing shadows all game. This is Sunderland, it doesn't matter what players we played.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You watched a different game to most of us. No, we weren't great but they did't dominate us.
They had one shot on target in 120 mins - their goal.
comment by #Robb (U19350)
posted 41 seconds ago
Robb
again, what do you think about tactics and attacking play against Liverpool and City?
------------------------------------------------------
We lost to two better teams because of some comical defending.
Tactics go out the window when your defence are awful.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Liverpool's back four are Glen Johnson, Skrtel, Agger and Flanagan.
Buttner will be playing in a CL quarter final on Tuesday.
===========================================
may god have mercy on our souls
Sign in if you want to comment
Why I still believe in Moyes.
Page 4 of 11
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posted on 28/3/14
I don't understand why people can't see that certain players in the squad are holding us back. Having Evra, Rio, and Vidic in there waaaaay past their best is having a detrimental effect on the way we defend as a team which guess what, is massively important to our success.
Add that to having Rooney and RVP up front who really haven't got the same ability as a twosome that Sturridge and Suarez have and there is a problem.
People will say... if those players are a problem why are they still there? The answer to that is that they have contracts and may not have wanted to leave last summer. There is only a certain amount of things Moyes can do in one season.
Luckily for him those 3 defenders are leaving this summer (3 huge figures in the dressing room btw) and we can start afresh with defenders who not only have the hunger but also the ability (rather than once had the ability).
posted on 28/3/14
Moyes did beat the bigger sides with Everton though.
He beat Arsenal, City, Liverpool, Chelsea, United in the past 4 seasons. Okay, he didn't win any away but scoring 4 goals at OT when we were title favourites is a big plus point and last season he was a wrongly disallowed goal from winning at Anfield.
This season he's beaten Arsenal and Liverpool with us and navigated us to the CL quarters so the idea that he never beats the big teams is ridiculous.
posted on 28/3/14
Cantona,
Almost everyone who wants Moyes replaces recognises our squad deficiencies. In August I would have rated City and Chelsea as having better squads and arguably Spurs as well.
The only Liverpool players I would have had in a combined Utd/Pool XI were Suarez, Gerrard and Agger. On paper we were still good enough for champions league places, add in £70m of investment and you would have expected us to be challenging for the title.
posted on 28/3/14
Benched
So you accept that City and Chelsea have better squads but think we're better than Liverpool even though some have them as favourites for the title?
No, we shouldn't be 7th but coming in the top 4 this season would have been a challenge even for SAF.
posted on 28/3/14
On paper in August we had a better squad than Liverpool.
What has changed since for them is the impact of an adequate manager.
I did not expect us to challenge for the title this year no matter who was in charge but our performances lack any evidence of positive influence from the manager.
posted on 28/3/14
comment by OOH_AH_Cantona (U3577)
posted 7 minutes ago
We could spend 300 million in the summer and still won't finish I'm the top 4 with moyes. I wanted him to be a success but his tactics are woeful at best. At Everton he was abysmal against the big teams and he has carried that over with us. We have good enough players now to at least give the big sides a good game. Yes on paper city should beat us but we had 2 shots on target, 2. We don't even look like drawing games against big sides.
Tactics are a massive part of football. Look at Liverpool on paper they have nowhere near the squad to win the league but Rodgers tactics and management is getting that out of them. Jose and his tactics could win Chelsea the prem when City have by far the better players. Fergie last year won us the league at a centre.
It doesn't matter how much moyes spends he will still have poor tactical knowledge . One win in 13 games against the top 9 is a joke. People are talking like we have a championship squad and need all this money spent. Yes we may not have an amazing squad but we are good enough to score more than 18 at home and win against the likes of west brom, Southampton Newcastle at home etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
exactly, on paper only City have better squad than us ,we are clearly better than Everton and Spurs, yet we are behind them and its not because of poor tactics and bad management, Its because of lack of luck
also because of rio, who hardly played this season and Vidic, who is still better than most CBs in PL. Why it is so hard to see Moyes gets tactically out done by almost all managers in PL? even Poet got sunderland to win a two legged tie against us ffs
posted on 28/3/14
"No, we shouldn't be 7th but coming in the top 4 this season would have been a challenge even for SAF."
Does anyone really believe that?
Really?
posted on 28/3/14
comment by #Robb (U19350)
posted 4 minutes ago
I don't understand why people can't see that certain players in the squad are holding us back. Having Evra, Rio, and Vidic in there waaaaay past their best is having a detrimental effect on the way we defend as a team which guess what, is massively important to our success.
Add that to having Rooney and RVP up front who really haven't got the same ability as a twosome that Sturridge and Suarez have and there is a problem.
**********************
More of the same rubbish. Every single person here would agree wholeheartedly that with fergie here, we will be in a better position. Players do not become rubbish overnight. Take a look at Terry and lampard under AVB. They were deemed on their way out and the reason for his "style" working. Yet another manager comes in, uses them in the right system and tactics and terry at 34 is all of a sudden playing brilliantly and lampard has managed to outscore our midfield AGAIN.
Managers effect the production of players. When the production of champions drop off a cliff in 7 months, I see an AVB clueless management effect not the players good for 5 year suddenly becoming useless. It is the exact same thing happening to our team.
posted on 28/3/14
Regarding the Sunderland game -
Did Poyet tactically outwit us or did DDG drop the ball with seconds to go?
The same Poyet who knocked Jose and Chelsea out of the league cup and pushed City all the way in the final.
posted on 28/3/14
comment by #Robb (U19350)
posted 34 minutes ago
MuDD
It's a stupid question because you're making a wild assumption that people on here want him to have unlimited time.
I can't speak for anyone else nor do I want to.
====================
That is not what I have said at all. I asked you a very simple question and have not suggested Moyes should be given unlimited time.
I said, some people will want him to have the same amount of time Fergie was given to turn things around. Was that unlimited? Of course not.
My question is simple and I will post it again, next year when you give up on Moyes and those people who want him to get the same amount of time Fergie was given to get it right (not unlimited), what will your retort to them be?
posted on 28/3/14
SAF and mourinho would have had us in the top 2. Years this season are still being rather inconsistent. Liverpool are on a great run at the moment but SAF and Jose would have us in the top 2 at least 3rd.
posted on 28/3/14
*Teams this season
posted on 28/3/14
comment by #Robb (U19350)
posted 11 seconds ago
Regarding the Sunderland game -
Did Poyet tactically outwit us or did DDG drop the ball with seconds to go?
The same Poyet who knocked Jose and Chelsea out of the league cup and pushed City all the way in the final.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He knocked Jose out in one game, its a cup game, sht happens.
He knocked us out over 2 legs and pushed City but was blown away.
You have to respect what he has done at Sunderland though with past it players not deemed good enough for Utd
posted on 28/3/14
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by #Robb (U19350)
posted 34 minutes ago
MuDD
It's a stupid question because you're making a wild assumption that people on here want him to have unlimited time.
I can't speak for anyone else nor do I want to.
====================
That is not what I have said at all. I asked you a very simple question and have not suggested Moyes should be given unlimited time.
I said, some people will want him to have the same amount of time Fergie was given to turn things around. Was that unlimited? Of course not.
My question is simple and I will post it again, next year when you give up on Moyes and those people who want him to get the same amount of time Fergie was given to get it right (not unlimited), what will your retort to them be?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I simply don't believe a single person on here thinks Moyes should have a SAF style amount of time.
And besides, I still don't get what you're asking.
I've laid out what I think is a realistic expectation for Moyes. Again, I don't think a single person on here will still argue for Moyes if he fails those targets I have set.
if ANYONE still wants Moyes after that i'll be very surprised and will ask them for their reasons why.
posted on 28/3/14
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 minutes ago
"No, we shouldn't be 7th but coming in the top 4 this season would have been a challenge even for SAF."
Does anyone really believe that?
Really?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Robb does my good man. The funny thing is that if Moyes was a competent manager we would be in the title race.
The only reason we are not in the title race is our form at home.
West Brom
Newcastle
Everton
Spurs
Southampton
Fulham
2 points from 18 at Old Trafford? Sorry that is gross incompetence
posted on 28/3/14
comment by #Robb (U19350)
posted 1 minute ago
Regarding the Sunderland game -
Did Poyet tactically outwit us or did DDG drop the ball with seconds to go?
The same Poyet who knocked Jose and Chelsea out of the league cup and pushed City all the way in the final.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We scraped into extra time with them after playing two games.
Chelsea suffered for the lack of a decent striker, missing a few sitters. Jose also played a number of fringe players in this game (Schwarzer, Cole, Mikel, De Bruyne, Schurrle)
posted on 28/3/14
comment by #Robb (U19350)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by #Robb (U19350)
posted 34 minutes ago
MuDD
It's a stupid question because you're making a wild assumption that people on here want him to have unlimited time.
I can't speak for anyone else nor do I want to.
====================
That is not what I have said at all. I asked you a very simple question and have not suggested Moyes should be given unlimited time.
I said, some people will want him to have the same amount of time Fergie was given to turn things around. Was that unlimited? Of course not.
My question is simple and I will post it again, next year when you give up on Moyes and those people who want him to get the same amount of time Fergie was given to get it right (not unlimited), what will your retort to them be?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I simply don't believe a single person on here thinks Moyes should have a SAF style amount of time.
And besides, I still don't get what you're asking.
I've laid out what I think is a realistic expectation for Moyes. Again, I don't think a single person on here will still argue for Moyes if he fails those targets I have set.
if ANYONE still wants Moyes after that i'll be very surprised and will ask them for their reasons why.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What about if they call you a plastic, a fickle fan and say they still believe in Moyes?
Surely they can set targets for him again, after all that will be his first season with his kind of players, right?
posted on 28/3/14
comment by #Robb (U19350)
posted 4 minutes ago
Regarding the Sunderland game -
Did Poyet tactically outwit us or did DDG drop the ball with seconds to go?
The same Poyet who knocked Jose and Chelsea out of the league cup and pushed City all the way in the final.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We lost most games because we couldnt control the game and our offensive game plan was none existing apart from cross, United loose a two legged tie against a team battling relegation because GK conceded a goal by accident
Robb
again, what do you think about tactics and attacking play against Liverpool and City?
posted on 28/3/14
comment by Benched (U7195)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by #Robb (U19350)
posted 1 minute ago
Regarding the Sunderland game -
Did Poyet tactically outwit us or did DDG drop the ball with seconds to go?
The same Poyet who knocked Jose and Chelsea out of the league cup and pushed City all the way in the final.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We scraped into extra time with them after playing two games.
Chelsea suffered for the lack of a decent striker, missing a few sitters. Jose also played a number of fringe players in this game (Schwarzer, Cole, Mikel, De Bruyne, Schurrle)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many of our top players played against Sunderland in the second leg?
Buttner and Fletcher started. No Rooney, RVP or Mata.
posted on 28/3/14
Sunderland didn't just beat us they dominated us. We made them look like Barcelona and were chasing shadows all game. This is Sunderland, it doesn't matter what players we played.
posted on 28/3/14
Robb
again, what do you think about tactics and attacking play against Liverpool and City?
------------------------------------------------------
We lost to two better teams because of some comical defending.
Tactics go out the window when your defence are awful.
posted on 28/3/14
If Moyes didn't put out a team strong enough to beat Sunderland when he could have then that is more damning.
Fletcher is one of our better CM's. Buttner will be playing in a CL quarter final on Tuesday.
posted on 28/3/14
comment by OOH_AH_Cantona (U3577)
posted 54 seconds ago
Sunderland didn't just beat us they dominated us. We made them look like Barcelona and were chasing shadows all game. This is Sunderland, it doesn't matter what players we played.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You watched a different game to most of us. No, we weren't great but they did't dominate us.
They had one shot on target in 120 mins - their goal.
posted on 28/3/14
comment by #Robb (U19350)
posted 41 seconds ago
Robb
again, what do you think about tactics and attacking play against Liverpool and City?
------------------------------------------------------
We lost to two better teams because of some comical defending.
Tactics go out the window when your defence are awful.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Liverpool's back four are Glen Johnson, Skrtel, Agger and Flanagan.
posted on 28/3/14
Buttner will be playing in a CL quarter final on Tuesday.
===========================================
may god have mercy on our souls
Page 4 of 11
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