I will quote facts, you can scoff at the "left wing paper" but facts cannot be disputed;

The truth is the BBC is stacked full of rightwingers. The chairman of the BBC Trust is Chris Patten, a former Conservative cabinet minister. The BBC's political editor, Nick Robinson, was once chairman of the Young Conservatives. His former senior political producer, Thea Rogers, became George Osborne's special advisor in 2012. Andrew Neil, the presenter of the BBC's flagship political programmes Daily Politics and This Week, is chairman of the conservative Spectator magazine. His editor is Robbie Gibb, former chief of staff to the Tory Francis Maude. After the BBC's economics editor Stephanie Flanders left for a £400,000-a-year job at that notorious leftwing hotbed, JP Morgan, she was replaced by its business editor Robert Peston. His position was taken by Kamal Ahmed from the rightwing Sunday Telegraph, a journalist damned by the Guardian's Nick Davies for spinning government propaganda in the run-up to the Iraq war.

"BBC stalwart John Humphrys last week joined the chorus of voices alleging "liberal bias" at the BBC. Here is a man who was slapped down by the BBC's own trust last year for violating impartiality and accuracy guidelines in BBC2's The Future State of Welfare. It was an extraordinarily biased piece of TV that fuelled widespread myths about social security. With such coverage, this "liberal-biased" BBC shares the blame for leaving the public completely ill-informed, with, for example, voters estimating that 34 times more money is lost through benefit fraud than is actually the case.

Tory politicians favour the BBC as a useful recruitment service too. After Andy Coulson was driven from No 10, David Cameron replaced him with the then BBC news controller Craig Oliver. Boris Johnson's former communications supremo was the former BBC political correspondent Guto Harri; after moving to News International in 2012, he was replaced by the BBC's Westminster news editor, Will Walden.

Rather than having a leftwing bias, research actually suggests the BBC's output is biased towards establishment and rightwing sources. A study by Cardiff University academics found that while there is always a bias towards political incumbents, the ratio in favour of Conservative politicians appearing on BBC news is far greater than it was in favour of Labour figures when Gordon Brown was prime minister. Business representatives appear much more than they do on commercial news, and appear 19 times more frequently than trade union voices on the BBC Six O'Clock News."

comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted less than a minute ago
You realise that your individual experience is just that, right?

There are companies that have been established who have successful businesses that involve exposing right wing lies.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
I never said it wasnt. I did however get access to and was part of discussions with senior personel about their use of this "information". There was a clear policy of accepting any information from other left wing sources as true without any challenge even if they knew it wasnt true.

It happens across the board. Dont think May hasnt benefitted from some underhand tactics. Something has been going on behind closed doors to pave her way to Downing Street. Having sen what Ive seen it scares the crsp out of me that these are the people who get into power. It is very much survival of the fittest in politics. The only plus to that is hopefully it means May os strong enough to get a good deal for Britain.

The BBC is very guilty of pushing liberal agendas in many cases but not in the case of Brexit.

They offered plenty of reasoned discussion on both sides and, while their headlines were sometimes clickbait and their opinion pieces understandably not partial, overall I thought they presented the best account of all UK media outlets.

Again, I must state, I have no issue with people pushing their agendas (right or left)

Has to be done with the truth, not lies. That is the problem I have

The BBC is used by the government of the time. Blair was widely reported to have filled the BBC with Labour supporters. The Conservatives do the same. It takes years for the bias they have to change.

The bbc also attracted criticism for reporting some of the leave campaigns facts without challenge, as they have to show impartiality, to the extent the EU set up a website purely dedicated to saying what the real facts are.

The bbc are in a no-win situation in that regard.

comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted about a minute ago
Again, I must state, I have no issue with people pushing their agendas (right or left)

Has to be done with the truth, not lies. That is the problem I have
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed.

The problem is we all choose what we believe based on our own experiences, political leanings and who we decide to trust. Having been involved with some political organisations I have basically come to the conclusion you cant trust anything you are told. Any of it could be a blatant lie or twisting of the truth.

comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 45 seconds ago
The BBC is used by the government of the time. Blair was widely reported to have filled the BBC with Labour supporters. The Conservatives do the same. It takes years for the bias they have to change.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with that - the Government should have no interference with the BBC. Especially not threatening it with cuts if it doesn't tow the incumbent party line.

Which makes me laugh when I read all the reader comments about the BBC being partisan pre-Brexit then read the same people commenting for the Government to force the BBC to report a more positive, hopeful outlook rather than the facts.

People, eh?

comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted about a minute ago
Again, I must state, I have no issue with people pushing their agendas (right or left)

Has to be done with the truth, not lies. That is the problem I have
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed.

The problem is we all choose what we believe based on our own experiences, political leanings and who we decide to trust. Having been involved with some political organisations I have basically come to the conclusion you cant trust anything you are told. Any of it could be a blatant lie or twisting of the truth.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Indeed, which is why I double check stuff I am told.

I'm a huge fan of the Guardian but I felt their support of Snowden's antics was not right and there are quite a few things that should never have been published.

Same with Assange. I would prefer we did not get into illegal wars and conflict but there are some activities that are necessary.

That however does not give us carte blanche to fekc people around in the ME.

The BBC reported the worst case scenarios before the referendum. FOr example they went with the Bremain biased headline of us being £35 (or thereabouts, cant remember for sure now) a week out of pocket by 2030.

This was based on economic forecasts that also showed inflation was lower so the cost of people would be less as well. They completely ognored that part. twisting the truth as I said. What the lower inflation actually means is that people could actually have more spending power and be better off iin real terms. The only ones who would be better off are the mega-rich and they were the ones driving a lot of the information fed to us by both sides.

Honest question to some of the Brexit voters, considering a lot of the lies that you were told that can not actually be delivered by a Brexit vote.

Do you have any regrets?

The Beeb reported best case and worst case scenarios throughout, as well as regularly consulting 'experts' and quoting politicians.

Though, I agree, not entirely impartial for any article - but the closest thing to it.

comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted less than a minute ago
Honest question to some of the Brexit voters, considering a lot of the lies that you were told that can not actually be delivered by a Brexit vote.

Do you have any regrets?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Everyone I know who voted leave did so because they want the UK parliament to be make our laws and be accountable to the British electorate who can vote them out if they do something the electorate dont like.

That will be the case despite the lies from both sides.

I will ask you the question, how do you feel about teh scare mongering from the remain side and lies they fed you?

The UK parliament was already accountable to the British public though?

I would like ot ask you a question.

How much do we actually pay to the EU. When they write the cheque (or transfer or whatever) how much is on it that has to be paid?

I asked this of a friend who was a Remain campaigner and representative at his local polling station to see if they were telling the truth.

Around the £250m a week mark, thought that fluctuates each financial year.

As long as we can still move to Europe visa-free and this country is still very much involved in the EU's science programs I don't mind being in or out.

I take it no one other than me knows due to the silence.

I would find it funny if it wasnt such a serious issue that people who mouth off about it so much havent found out the facts.

comment by Ross Turnbull has a Champions League medal (U3522)
posted less than a minute ago
Around the £250m a week mark, thought that fluctuates each financial year.

As long as we can still move to Europe visa-free and this country is still very much involved in the EU's science programs I don't mind being in or out.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted at the same time. Well done.

The remain camp were saying £180m. Leave £350m. Both lies.

But you didnt include the extra payment to bauil out Greece and prop up the euro.

But you didnt include the extra payment to bauil out Greece and prop up the euro.

-----------
What are you waiting for then? Give us the figure. Broken down into those parts you've identified.

Couldn't include the Greek bailout or propping the Euro as they happened in or around 2012. The UK's budget changes every year and is significantly higher than it was 2 decades ago.

Rather than focus on the amount, though, I would like to know exactly what % of our GDP that is and, more importantly, where that money actually goes. That's one thing that doesn't seem to be talked about.

The figure widely reported was £1.7 billion. The government said they had got out of paying it but later it came out that they had paid it on the quiet. I dont know exatly how or how much, maybe dressed up as other payments but we paid extra.

Again, both sides lied or twisted the truth. Remain said we had halved it (but when you look at the ambiguity in the statement the other half may only have been delayed), Leave said we paid the full amount.

This actually proveds the point I have been ttying to get across. There have been accusations on here this morning that the Leave side lied (but by absence it implied that Remain didnt). I think we've covered enough to prove both sides lied and there was a lot of mis-information from BOTH camps.

This actually proveds the point I have been ttying to get across. There have been accusations on here this morning that the Leave side lied (but by absence it implied that Remain didnt). I think we've covered enough to prove both sides lied and there was a lot of mis-information from BOTH camps.
-----------



I think that was one of my first comments on here that no outlet gave a simple, factual list of all pros and cons. The closest to that was an American economics journal. The economy was just one argument of many though.

comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted less than a minute ago
Honest question to some of the Brexit voters, considering a lot of the lies that you were told that can not actually be delivered by a Brexit vote.

Do you have any regrets?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Everyone I know who voted leave did so because they want the UK parliament to be make our laws and be accountable to the British electorate who can vote them out if they do something the electorate dont like.

That will be the case despite the lies from both sides.

I will ask you the question, how do you feel about teh scare mongering from the remain side and lies they fed you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We've been through this before more than once, but here we go again.

What laws have the EU foisted on us against the will of the British public & government?

We have the 2nd most, along with Italy & France, the most elected MEP's representing us in the EU. Germany have the most. If you didn't think our MEP's were doing the best thing for the UK you are able to cite them out every 5 years.

comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted less than a minute ago
Honest question to some of the Brexit voters, considering a lot of the lies that you were told that can not actually be delivered by a Brexit vote.

Do you have any regrets?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Everyone I know who voted leave did so because they want the UK parliament to be make our laws and be accountable to the British electorate who can vote them out if they do something the electorate dont like.

That will be the case despite the lies from both sides.

I will ask you the question, how do you feel about teh scare mongering from the remain side and lies they fed you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

But the UK parliament make our own laws and are accountable to the British people. What that says to me is that a lot of people do not even understand our democracy.

The EU cannot ride roughshod over our parliament.

The only lie that the remain camp said I was disappointed with was the war one. Everything else that was said is happening and it will get worse when article 50 is triggered.

See, when folk ask brexiteers stuff and they come up with sovereignty and law making, it makes it clear to me they do not understand how the EU works or how our democracy works.