Another question I would like to raise is the long term impact of leaving or remaining.
Leave was always going to have an immediate economic impact and we would then start rebuilding.
Remain has longer term implications such as proping up the Euro, the European army and European Superstate. Of these the long term stability of the Euro is probably the most widely reported as an actual risk and likely to have significant long term cost to EU members.
How would you mitigate these risks if we had stayed? I certainly didnt see anything from the Remain side and think in a few decades time we will see we are better off out of the EU. But at short to medium term cost.
I personally prefer the Brexiteers that say it was all about immigration. At least they are honest.
Again though, they have been misled. The only way to stop EU migration is to not participate in the single market.
Do you see that happening? Even the tory MPs caught on camera said only lunatics would suggest that
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted less than a minute ago
I personally prefer the Brexiteers that say it was all about immigration. At least they are honest.
Again though, they have been misled. The only way to stop EU migration is to not participate in the single market.
Do you see that happening? Even the tory MPs caught on camera said only lunatics would suggest that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont know anyone who voted based on immigration. From what I have seen this appears to be a lie to make it seem it was more of an issue pushed by the Remain side.
Don't actually see the problem with having a European army so long as it would require Unanimous agreement from all involved for forces to be used anywhere. It could be a continental version of NATO and primarily focused on peacekeeping and showing a United Front.
Remain has longer term implications such as proping up the Euro, the European army and European Superstate. Of these the long term stability of the Euro is probably the most widely reported as an actual risk and likely to have significant long term cost to EU members.
=========================================
Cameron got a deal to not allow us to prop up the Euro or facilitate any bail outs, so again this is another thing people do not understand. There will be no EU superstate or EU army, that is just conspiracy nonsense. There will be more and more easing of borders, this is a global phenomenon.
How would you mitigate these risks if we had stayed? I certainly didnt see anything from the Remain side and think in a few decades time we will see we are better off out of the EU. But at short to medium term cost.
======================
You saw what happened to this country in 2008 when the banking sector went bust. Germany did not, you know why, because of the manufacturing sector.
Do we have one? Even our agricultural sector was dependent on EU subsidies
comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted about a minute ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted less than a minute ago
I personally prefer the Brexiteers that say it was all about immigration. At least they are honest.
Again though, they have been misled. The only way to stop EU migration is to not participate in the single market.
Do you see that happening? Even the tory MPs caught on camera said only lunatics would suggest that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont know anyone who voted based on immigration. From what I have seen this appears to be a lie to make it seem it was more of an issue pushed by the Remain side.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whether you know someone or not is not the point. It was the number 1 issue on people's minds.
Number 1
So we are back to the key question;
Do we want access to the single market?
If we do, why have we weakened our position and lost a veto and influence over this single market?
At the end of the day, that is one of the most stupid things ever done in this country.
This is why Boris, Farage and co did a runner
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted about a minute ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted less than a minute ago
I personally prefer the Brexiteers that say it was all about immigration. At least they are honest.
Again though, they have been misled. The only way to stop EU migration is to not participate in the single market.
Do you see that happening? Even the tory MPs caught on camera said only lunatics would suggest that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont know anyone who voted based on immigration. From what I have seen this appears to be a lie to make it seem it was more of an issue pushed by the Remain side.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whether you know someone or not is not the point. It was the number 1 issue on people's minds.
Number 1
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do you think that?
I based my saying it wasnt on everyone I know who voted leave and the majority of real people who were interviewed in the media. The only people I saw who said it was the main issue were remain supporters, not the actual people who voted leave. You need to look back at the comment about both sides lying. It apears you have bought the remain sides lies with no question.
This was widely reported after the votes on the Beeb and came up as the key issue for folk.
Considering the rise in hate and the folk dancing about saying time for people to feck off home, I would say it played a significant role.
Again the point is this, if your argument was a sovereignty or parliament one, that means you are not aware of the issues.
Sorry for being blunt, but that's what it means
Arif Ansari @ArifBBC 4m4 minutes ago
I'm told Angela Eagle's Wallasey constituency office was bricked overnight.
The Blairites have just committed political suicide.
Probably by Tory voters who know Corbyn will never win an election.
since the vote it has come out that the BBC, ITV and other news channels used Britian First and English Defence League rallies and passed them off as Leave campaign. Channel 4 News allegedly didnt use anything else.
Those people are a minority and were used in biased media to make it look like it was more of an issue than it really was. It makes more sensationalist news stories as well.
There were also a number of reports where random people were questioned about what they voted and why. Very few of these said immigration.
You accused me of not being aware of the issues, yet you have taken the biased pro-remain reporting of the BBC and others of using far right groups as a representation of everyone who voted leave and you have not questioned it. I have at least used some discernment (whether right or wrong) to make my own mind up rather than believe either camp.
comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted about a minute ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted less than a minute ago
I personally prefer the Brexiteers that say it was all about immigration. At least they are honest.
Again though, they have been misled. The only way to stop EU migration is to not participate in the single market.
Do you see that happening? Even the tory MPs caught on camera said only lunatics would suggest that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont know anyone who voted based on immigration. From what I have seen this appears to be a lie to make it seem it was more of an issue pushed by the Remain side.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whether you know someone or not is not the point. It was the number 1 issue on people's minds.
Number 1
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do you think that?
I based my saying it wasnt on everyone I know who voted leave and the majority of real people who were interviewed in the media. The only people I saw who said it was the main issue were remain supporters, not the actual people who voted leave. You need to look back at the comment about both sides lying. It apears you have bought the remain sides lies with no question.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sovereignty.
Taking back control of our boarders.
What the hell do you think those key Leave campaign staples meant other than being anti-immigration?
I actually know someone... actually know her, not some random person being interviewed on the news, and when a friend asked her why she'd voted to leave, her response was that there are 'too many foreigners in A&E.
She's mid-20's, educated, lives in Brighton.
Staggering, really.
Sovereignty.
Taking back control of our boarders.
------------------------------
No one I have heard saying sovereignty.was the issue has said it was about taking back borders. It was about too much influence from the EU on our laws. They wanted the British people to vote for a British Parliament that makes British laws.
There are people for who immigration was an isue, but nothing I have seen has led me to believe this was the main issue the majority of leave voters voted on.
Gooner
"There were also a number of reports where random people were questioned about what they voted and why. Very few of these said immigration"
I'm sorry but that's just not true. There are plenty of examples of people citing their reason to vote leave as being immigration. The article below is one. An episode of Panarama the week before last is another.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/25/hartlepool-eu-referendum-leave-voters-immigration-jobs
Also, assuming you're from London. The majority in London voted to remain. I'd also imagine there's more apathy towards immigration in London than smaller towns and cities, particularly in the north.
No one I have heard saying sovereignty.was the issue has said it was about taking back borders. It was about too much influence from the EU on our laws. They wanted the British people to vote for a British Parliament that makes British laws.
=================
What influence is that?
We vote for our parliament and they vote for our laws
You are confused about the EU
Someone on BBC talking about immigration now.
And theyve just gone onto someone who said its about making pour laws.
comment by CoutinhosHappyFeet (U18971)
posted about a minute ago
Gooner
"There were also a number of reports where random people were questioned about what they voted and why. Very few of these said immigration"
I'm sorry but that's just not true. There are plenty of examples of people citing their reason to vote leave as being immigration. The article below is one. An episode of Panarama the week before last is another.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/25/hartlepool-eu-referendum-leave-voters-immigration-jobs
Also, assuming you're from London. The majority in London voted to remain. I'd also imagine there's more apathy towards immigration in London than smaller towns and cities, particularly in the north.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Near Brighton who also voted to remain, 74% if I remember correctly.
Gooner
"It was about too much influence from the EU on our laws"
Such as?
Do the EU vote for our parliament?
comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by CoutinhosHappyFeet (U18971)
posted about a minute ago
Gooner
"There were also a number of reports where random people were questioned about what they voted and why. Very few of these said immigration"
I'm sorry but that's just not true. There are plenty of examples of people citing their reason to vote leave as being immigration. The article below is one. An episode of Panarama the week before last is another.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/25/hartlepool-eu-referendum-leave-voters-immigration-jobs
Also, assuming you're from London. The majority in London voted to remain. I'd also imagine there's more apathy towards immigration in London than smaller towns and cities, particularly in the north.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Near Brighton who also voted to remain, 74% if I remember correctly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I know Brighton well, got family down there. It's a pretty liberal place.
The people I know who voted to leave lapped up and quoted all the lies from Farage, Boris and various xenophobic newspapers.
Some of them are genuine honest people who thought they were voting in their interest and the interest of the country, coincidentally they are not the brightest (that's putting it nicely).
I ask again, who votes for our parliament?
Who makes laws for Britain?
If the EU was the problem, why did MEPs vote 96% of the time in favour?
Sign in if you want to comment
LIVE: Great Britain EU Referendum
Page 338 of 395
339 | 340 | 341 | 342 | 343
posted on 12/7/16
Another question I would like to raise is the long term impact of leaving or remaining.
Leave was always going to have an immediate economic impact and we would then start rebuilding.
Remain has longer term implications such as proping up the Euro, the European army and European Superstate. Of these the long term stability of the Euro is probably the most widely reported as an actual risk and likely to have significant long term cost to EU members.
How would you mitigate these risks if we had stayed? I certainly didnt see anything from the Remain side and think in a few decades time we will see we are better off out of the EU. But at short to medium term cost.
posted on 12/7/16
I personally prefer the Brexiteers that say it was all about immigration. At least they are honest.
Again though, they have been misled. The only way to stop EU migration is to not participate in the single market.
Do you see that happening? Even the tory MPs caught on camera said only lunatics would suggest that
posted on 12/7/16
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted less than a minute ago
I personally prefer the Brexiteers that say it was all about immigration. At least they are honest.
Again though, they have been misled. The only way to stop EU migration is to not participate in the single market.
Do you see that happening? Even the tory MPs caught on camera said only lunatics would suggest that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont know anyone who voted based on immigration. From what I have seen this appears to be a lie to make it seem it was more of an issue pushed by the Remain side.
posted on 12/7/16
Don't actually see the problem with having a European army so long as it would require Unanimous agreement from all involved for forces to be used anywhere. It could be a continental version of NATO and primarily focused on peacekeeping and showing a United Front.
posted on 12/7/16
Remain has longer term implications such as proping up the Euro, the European army and European Superstate. Of these the long term stability of the Euro is probably the most widely reported as an actual risk and likely to have significant long term cost to EU members.
=========================================
Cameron got a deal to not allow us to prop up the Euro or facilitate any bail outs, so again this is another thing people do not understand. There will be no EU superstate or EU army, that is just conspiracy nonsense. There will be more and more easing of borders, this is a global phenomenon.
How would you mitigate these risks if we had stayed? I certainly didnt see anything from the Remain side and think in a few decades time we will see we are better off out of the EU. But at short to medium term cost.
======================
You saw what happened to this country in 2008 when the banking sector went bust. Germany did not, you know why, because of the manufacturing sector.
Do we have one? Even our agricultural sector was dependent on EU subsidies
posted on 12/7/16
comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted about a minute ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted less than a minute ago
I personally prefer the Brexiteers that say it was all about immigration. At least they are honest.
Again though, they have been misled. The only way to stop EU migration is to not participate in the single market.
Do you see that happening? Even the tory MPs caught on camera said only lunatics would suggest that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont know anyone who voted based on immigration. From what I have seen this appears to be a lie to make it seem it was more of an issue pushed by the Remain side.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whether you know someone or not is not the point. It was the number 1 issue on people's minds.
Number 1
posted on 12/7/16
So we are back to the key question;
Do we want access to the single market?
If we do, why have we weakened our position and lost a veto and influence over this single market?
At the end of the day, that is one of the most stupid things ever done in this country.
This is why Boris, Farage and co did a runner
posted on 12/7/16
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted about a minute ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted less than a minute ago
I personally prefer the Brexiteers that say it was all about immigration. At least they are honest.
Again though, they have been misled. The only way to stop EU migration is to not participate in the single market.
Do you see that happening? Even the tory MPs caught on camera said only lunatics would suggest that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont know anyone who voted based on immigration. From what I have seen this appears to be a lie to make it seem it was more of an issue pushed by the Remain side.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whether you know someone or not is not the point. It was the number 1 issue on people's minds.
Number 1
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do you think that?
I based my saying it wasnt on everyone I know who voted leave and the majority of real people who were interviewed in the media. The only people I saw who said it was the main issue were remain supporters, not the actual people who voted leave. You need to look back at the comment about both sides lying. It apears you have bought the remain sides lies with no question.
posted on 12/7/16
This was widely reported after the votes on the Beeb and came up as the key issue for folk.
Considering the rise in hate and the folk dancing about saying time for people to feck off home, I would say it played a significant role.
Again the point is this, if your argument was a sovereignty or parliament one, that means you are not aware of the issues.
Sorry for being blunt, but that's what it means
posted on 12/7/16
Arif Ansari @ArifBBC 4m4 minutes ago
I'm told Angela Eagle's Wallasey constituency office was bricked overnight.
posted on 12/7/16
The Blairites have just committed political suicide.
posted on 12/7/16
Probably by Tory voters who know Corbyn will never win an election.
posted on 12/7/16
since the vote it has come out that the BBC, ITV and other news channels used Britian First and English Defence League rallies and passed them off as Leave campaign. Channel 4 News allegedly didnt use anything else.
Those people are a minority and were used in biased media to make it look like it was more of an issue than it really was. It makes more sensationalist news stories as well.
There were also a number of reports where random people were questioned about what they voted and why. Very few of these said immigration.
You accused me of not being aware of the issues, yet you have taken the biased pro-remain reporting of the BBC and others of using far right groups as a representation of everyone who voted leave and you have not questioned it. I have at least used some discernment (whether right or wrong) to make my own mind up rather than believe either camp.
posted on 12/7/16
comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted about a minute ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted less than a minute ago
I personally prefer the Brexiteers that say it was all about immigration. At least they are honest.
Again though, they have been misled. The only way to stop EU migration is to not participate in the single market.
Do you see that happening? Even the tory MPs caught on camera said only lunatics would suggest that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont know anyone who voted based on immigration. From what I have seen this appears to be a lie to make it seem it was more of an issue pushed by the Remain side.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whether you know someone or not is not the point. It was the number 1 issue on people's minds.
Number 1
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do you think that?
I based my saying it wasnt on everyone I know who voted leave and the majority of real people who were interviewed in the media. The only people I saw who said it was the main issue were remain supporters, not the actual people who voted leave. You need to look back at the comment about both sides lying. It apears you have bought the remain sides lies with no question.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sovereignty.
Taking back control of our boarders.
What the hell do you think those key Leave campaign staples meant other than being anti-immigration?
posted on 12/7/16
I actually know someone... actually know her, not some random person being interviewed on the news, and when a friend asked her why she'd voted to leave, her response was that there are 'too many foreigners in A&E.
She's mid-20's, educated, lives in Brighton.
Staggering, really.
posted on 12/7/16
Sovereignty.
Taking back control of our boarders.
------------------------------
No one I have heard saying sovereignty.was the issue has said it was about taking back borders. It was about too much influence from the EU on our laws. They wanted the British people to vote for a British Parliament that makes British laws.
There are people for who immigration was an isue, but nothing I have seen has led me to believe this was the main issue the majority of leave voters voted on.
posted on 12/7/16
Gooner
"There were also a number of reports where random people were questioned about what they voted and why. Very few of these said immigration"
I'm sorry but that's just not true. There are plenty of examples of people citing their reason to vote leave as being immigration. The article below is one. An episode of Panarama the week before last is another.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/25/hartlepool-eu-referendum-leave-voters-immigration-jobs
Also, assuming you're from London. The majority in London voted to remain. I'd also imagine there's more apathy towards immigration in London than smaller towns and cities, particularly in the north.
posted on 12/7/16
No one I have heard saying sovereignty.was the issue has said it was about taking back borders. It was about too much influence from the EU on our laws. They wanted the British people to vote for a British Parliament that makes British laws.
=================
What influence is that?
We vote for our parliament and they vote for our laws
You are confused about the EU
posted on 12/7/16
Someone on BBC talking about immigration now.
And theyve just gone onto someone who said its about making pour laws.
posted on 12/7/16
comment by CoutinhosHappyFeet (U18971)
posted about a minute ago
Gooner
"There were also a number of reports where random people were questioned about what they voted and why. Very few of these said immigration"
I'm sorry but that's just not true. There are plenty of examples of people citing their reason to vote leave as being immigration. The article below is one. An episode of Panarama the week before last is another.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/25/hartlepool-eu-referendum-leave-voters-immigration-jobs
Also, assuming you're from London. The majority in London voted to remain. I'd also imagine there's more apathy towards immigration in London than smaller towns and cities, particularly in the north.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Near Brighton who also voted to remain, 74% if I remember correctly.
posted on 12/7/16
Gooner
"It was about too much influence from the EU on our laws"
Such as?
posted on 12/7/16
Do the EU vote for our parliament?
posted on 12/7/16
comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by CoutinhosHappyFeet (U18971)
posted about a minute ago
Gooner
"There were also a number of reports where random people were questioned about what they voted and why. Very few of these said immigration"
I'm sorry but that's just not true. There are plenty of examples of people citing their reason to vote leave as being immigration. The article below is one. An episode of Panarama the week before last is another.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/25/hartlepool-eu-referendum-leave-voters-immigration-jobs
Also, assuming you're from London. The majority in London voted to remain. I'd also imagine there's more apathy towards immigration in London than smaller towns and cities, particularly in the north.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Near Brighton who also voted to remain, 74% if I remember correctly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I know Brighton well, got family down there. It's a pretty liberal place.
posted on 12/7/16
The people I know who voted to leave lapped up and quoted all the lies from Farage, Boris and various xenophobic newspapers.
Some of them are genuine honest people who thought they were voting in their interest and the interest of the country, coincidentally they are not the brightest (that's putting it nicely).
posted on 12/7/16
I ask again, who votes for our parliament?
Who makes laws for Britain?
If the EU was the problem, why did MEPs vote 96% of the time in favour?
Page 338 of 395
339 | 340 | 341 | 342 | 343