Also, the FA or PL have no reason to sanction the participating teams whatsoever.
----
That's your opinion, they say they have and will.
comment by Just go already (U21166)
posted 17 seconds ago
Also, the FA or PL have no reason to sanction the participating teams whatsoever.
----
That's your opinion, they say they have and will.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
On what grounds?
Neither the FA nor PL have any say on what goes on in European football.
That is UEFA's domain.
Problem is it negatively affects the PL, and La liga too, as the other teams are just playing to qualify for a tournament that doesn't contain these teams, so it devalues both the CL and the domestic leagues, hence why the likes of the PL are against it.
Why does it devalue the PL?
There will be 6 guaranteed PL teams in the ESL, more than from any other league.
Only once has a team outside those 6 ever qualified for the CL. So why all of a sudden does the status quo devalue the PL?
comment by פlǝuƃɥᴉs (U19365)
posted 18 minutes ago
Why does it devalue the PL?
There will be 6 guaranteed PL teams in the ESL, more than from any other league.
Only once has a team outside those 6 ever qualified for the CL. So why all of a sudden does the status quo devalue the PL?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well that's not true. The European Cup has been around since 1955. Since it has been rebranded as the Champions League (it is still classed as the same competition though and has the same historical winners as the Eurpoean Cup); Blackburn, Everton, Leeds, Newcastle and Leicester have all qualified. You might want to check your facts before you go round spouting nonsense.
Those arguing for it ‘maybe it’s not that bad’ I think fail to recognise the blatant, in-your-face elitism. This isn’t about entertainment, providing better football. It is literally just about money! These clubs involved stand to make a huge financial benefit. And obviously they’re in this competition regardless of how they perform in the league, just because.
And please it is not comparable to other competitions - no point attempting a contrarian argument like ‘the CL is already favouring big teams’. You’ll struggle to find a competition in any sport in history where the best teams are not consistently battling for trophies. The CL may be flawed, any competition you can find some flaws in how it works, but at least it’s not such a clear case of pure greed and elitism. As said, these clubs are basically saying that they want the money the league will bring and to be in it regardless of how they perform, there’s been no competition like that in football history as far as I’m aware.
Also given it is meant to be what 20 games for the ‘winner’ of this competition they’re clearly for seeing that clubs would have to drop out of other compeitions for this to work. Already seeing some buy into some sympathy for them ‘the clubs have said they want to still be part of all competitions, the PL/UEFA/FA/FIFA are just throwing their toys out the pram’. Well a) they’re well within their right to but let’s also not pretend like the clubs have clearly planned for this to replace at least some domestic competition.
the big 6 are still going to want to win the PL, they're still going to be the most likely to win the PL and they're also, as per the last 19 years, one blip from Leicester aside, the most likely to occupy the top 4
business as usual, just jazzes up the Europa for a change
Imagine the top 6 gaining an additional 200 million every single season ontop of the money they also receive from the PL? Leicester? West Ham? No chance of being where they are today. European football? So Leicester Vs. Villarreal as opposed to Juventus v United every other week?
Op really hasn't thought any of this through
At the moment, all clubs outside top 6 are fighting for Leicester dream season. You take that hope away then there will be no joy in football.
Also the leader of Super league is Real Madrid owner, supported by other owners. Soon there will be disputed between them once the league starts, then it will all go wrong.
No relegation is a load of BS
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 2 hours, 17 minutes ago
comment by פlǝuƃɥᴉs (U19365)
posted 18 minutes ago
Why does it devalue the PL?
There will be 6 guaranteed PL teams in the ESL, more than from any other league.
Only once has a team outside those 6 ever qualified for the CL. So why all of a sudden does the status quo devalue the PL?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well that's not true. The European Cup has been around since 1955. Since it has been rebranded as the Champions League (it is still classed as the same competition though and has the same historical winners as the Eurpoean Cup); Blackburn, Everton, Leeds, Newcastle and Leicester have all qualified. You might want to check your facts before you go round spouting nonsense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Most of the teams you mention qualified when it was the European Cup, a purely knockout competition. I was referring to the Champions League with emphasis on 'league' as you well know.
I do stand corrected though as Leeds, Blackburn & Newcastle have qualified for the group stages in the earlier years of the CL, but in the last 19 years this feat has only been achieved by Leicester outside of the 'big 6'.
comment by Dwight K Schrute (U22590)
posted 2 hours, 10 minutes ago
the big 6 are still going to want to win the PL, they're still going to be the most likely to win the PL and they're also, as per the last 19 years, one blip from Leicester aside, the most likely to occupy the top 4
...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So true.
comment by red_evils (U19878)
posted 59 minutes ago
At the moment, all clubs outside top 6 are fighting for Leicester dream season. You take that hope away then there will be no joy in football.
...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is incorrect, the ESL proposal states there will be 5 places to be awarded to teams based on their previous seasons performance.
I would imagine if a team achieved what Leicester did then they would be awarded one of those 5 places.
In the current situation in the PL, I watch my team play another team twice, home and away. I presume, if this goes ahead, I’ll probably watching them play the same team four or more times, home and away.
Home and away? What could that mean, the ‘away’ bit? Anywhere in the world? Anywhere where the owners can make more money? Middle East perhaps? China? You know, where the money is?
No relegation, no promotion to this league? So, if a mega-rich person buys a club, say like Man City, say 10-15 years ago, just saying of course, they can’t get in the super league?
I can hardly wait.
comment by פlǝuƃɥᴉs (U19365)
posted 4 hours, 14 minutes ago
comment by Just go already (U21166)
posted 17 seconds ago
Also, the FA or PL have no reason to sanction the participating teams whatsoever.
----
That's your opinion, they say they have and will.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
On what grounds?
Neither the FA nor PL have any say on what goes on in European football.
That is UEFA's domain.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It diminishes the competitiveness of the league when the six clubs involved qualify for Europe regardless of where they finish in the league. It also allows these clubs to coin it in, again reducing the league's competitiveness.
I honestly don't know if these 'founder clubs' can be sanctioned, if they can, they should be.
I would also say that the few unfortunates on here, who appear to be backing this proposal are idiots.
If they get their way do you think the greed will stop there? For example, further down the line I can envisage them wanting to play these fixtures at the weekend to further maximise revenue.
we've all seen the repeated complaints against uefa and fifa on here, every year.
about incompetence.
about corruption.
about stupid changes to the rules.
about cronyism and ignoring the fans, especially over ticket allocations to finals, and the selection of the stadium.
about how uefa/fifa take so much of the money generated for themselves, despite doing very little except rely on the revenue generating capacity of the teams involved.
maybe this super league is an opportunity.
first and foremost it appears to be about reducing the governing bodies percentage of the money generated, allowing the clubs that are actually creating that value to keep more for themselves. if they stick to the promise of uncapped solidarity payments to the leagues then it is possible all clubs, at all levels, will benefit.
and perhaps a competition outside of uefa or fifa's remit isnt a bad idea. a competition where the clubs involved can actually set the laws and rules, freed from the shackles of the uefa/fifa clowns and their ref's incompetence, and self-protecting rules. maybe we'll end up with a working VAR system, and understandable, and more importantly, easily applicable offside rules...
the big problem i can see with it, and which is, fairly, being levelled at the clubs involved, is that it's to protect and guarantee their continued, unlosable, participation in the competition.
as the ones taking all the risk and flak for trying to start the super league, i can see their reasoning for wanting to ensure their continuing benefit. but i can't condone not being able to lose their place.
maybe a 10 - 15 year period from inception where they can't be relegated from it, should be more than enough to ensure they get the return required to compensate for the risk and anger. if there's a fixed point from which any founding member can be relegated that should help avoid arguments that it's only about protecting their own places in the competition.
in case people have not noticed unfairness before
compare money 1st in championship gets excluding parachutes to 20th in prem.
Now go to spain and compare the gap between money getten by barca and 6th placed real sociedad 100mil+ . check last year where Lfc got 19mil more than spurs who finished 6th.
there's a lot of unfairness in the game today. people bleating about unfairness need to start focusing on self interest
there's a lot of unfairness in the game today. people bleating about unfairness need to start focusing on self interest
------------------
So, if the league table today was the final league table, Arsenal in 9th would qualify for the super league, before Leicester would sitting 3rd.
Yes, the way modern football is structured is unfairly, but this takes it to a new whole level.
It's not bleating, it's repugnant and basically it will drastically effect the our domestic game in a negative way.
I think most of the teams involved in the ESL would be delighted to see top level mouth watering ties on a regular basis. its the natural step forwards. Talk about commercialism and financial immorality is irrelevant. this is the natural progression for the sport.
When football turned professional there was much the same type of accusations levelled at the proposed upgrade at that time.
I can understand the frustration from fans of clubs whose teams have not been 'invited ' in. But sooner or later this was always on the cards.
Football is entertainment, and The ESL will provide it on the highest level. Want it or not it is and will be the future.
It’s not a natural step at all though is it. It’s the richest clubs in the world regardless of success on the pitch deciding a quick and easy step to recover funds and make more money by creating a random new competition in which they are guaranteed entry to every year regardless of performance. What is natural about that?
No risk for the founding clubs as there is no relegation.
I'm sure it will be gripping, with the plethora of meaningless exhibition games
comment by Vorsprung durch Tuchel (U1641)
posted 42 seconds ago
It’s not a natural step at all though is it. It’s the richest clubs in the world regardless of success on the pitch deciding a quick and easy step to recover funds and make more money by creating a random new competition in which they are guaranteed entry to every year regardless of performance. What is natural about that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nature has given us natural selection, the survival of the fittest, so to me its the most natural thing to follow the way of nature.
besides..its long overdue, the entertainment quality will be so much improved, it was always going to happen.
Plus...a few years down the road as travel logistics improve along with increase of interest in the sport, I can see this progressing to The Intercontinental League, (ICSL) with contributions from S. America, Africa, and Asia. As those countries almost certainly will invest more funds into the sport on a global basis.
comment by Pâî§Lë¥'&scaron... (U1541)
posted 19 minutes ago
No risk for the founding clubs as there is no relegation.
I'm sure it will be gripping, with the plethora of meaningless exhibition games
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Super trophies that will be at the top of every owners wish list.Being "best of the best" will always hold the greatest allure. Previously it was done on a provincial basis, now we will have it continental...and after some years down thread...globally.
Sign in if you want to comment
So many idiots
Page 1 of 2
posted on 19/4/21
Also, the FA or PL have no reason to sanction the participating teams whatsoever.
----
That's your opinion, they say they have and will.
posted on 19/4/21
comment by Just go already (U21166)
posted 17 seconds ago
Also, the FA or PL have no reason to sanction the participating teams whatsoever.
----
That's your opinion, they say they have and will.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
On what grounds?
Neither the FA nor PL have any say on what goes on in European football.
That is UEFA's domain.
posted on 19/4/21
Problem is it negatively affects the PL, and La liga too, as the other teams are just playing to qualify for a tournament that doesn't contain these teams, so it devalues both the CL and the domestic leagues, hence why the likes of the PL are against it.
posted on 19/4/21
Why does it devalue the PL?
There will be 6 guaranteed PL teams in the ESL, more than from any other league.
Only once has a team outside those 6 ever qualified for the CL. So why all of a sudden does the status quo devalue the PL?
posted on 19/4/21
comment by פlǝuƃɥᴉs (U19365)
posted 18 minutes ago
Why does it devalue the PL?
There will be 6 guaranteed PL teams in the ESL, more than from any other league.
Only once has a team outside those 6 ever qualified for the CL. So why all of a sudden does the status quo devalue the PL?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well that's not true. The European Cup has been around since 1955. Since it has been rebranded as the Champions League (it is still classed as the same competition though and has the same historical winners as the Eurpoean Cup); Blackburn, Everton, Leeds, Newcastle and Leicester have all qualified. You might want to check your facts before you go round spouting nonsense.
posted on 19/4/21
Those arguing for it ‘maybe it’s not that bad’ I think fail to recognise the blatant, in-your-face elitism. This isn’t about entertainment, providing better football. It is literally just about money! These clubs involved stand to make a huge financial benefit. And obviously they’re in this competition regardless of how they perform in the league, just because.
And please it is not comparable to other competitions - no point attempting a contrarian argument like ‘the CL is already favouring big teams’. You’ll struggle to find a competition in any sport in history where the best teams are not consistently battling for trophies. The CL may be flawed, any competition you can find some flaws in how it works, but at least it’s not such a clear case of pure greed and elitism. As said, these clubs are basically saying that they want the money the league will bring and to be in it regardless of how they perform, there’s been no competition like that in football history as far as I’m aware.
Also given it is meant to be what 20 games for the ‘winner’ of this competition they’re clearly for seeing that clubs would have to drop out of other compeitions for this to work. Already seeing some buy into some sympathy for them ‘the clubs have said they want to still be part of all competitions, the PL/UEFA/FA/FIFA are just throwing their toys out the pram’. Well a) they’re well within their right to but let’s also not pretend like the clubs have clearly planned for this to replace at least some domestic competition.
posted on 19/4/21
the big 6 are still going to want to win the PL, they're still going to be the most likely to win the PL and they're also, as per the last 19 years, one blip from Leicester aside, the most likely to occupy the top 4
business as usual, just jazzes up the Europa for a change
posted on 19/4/21
Imagine the top 6 gaining an additional 200 million every single season ontop of the money they also receive from the PL? Leicester? West Ham? No chance of being where they are today. European football? So Leicester Vs. Villarreal as opposed to Juventus v United every other week?
Op really hasn't thought any of this through
posted on 19/4/21
At the moment, all clubs outside top 6 are fighting for Leicester dream season. You take that hope away then there will be no joy in football.
Also the leader of Super league is Real Madrid owner, supported by other owners. Soon there will be disputed between them once the league starts, then it will all go wrong.
posted on 19/4/21
No relegation is a load of BS
posted on 19/4/21
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 2 hours, 17 minutes ago
comment by פlǝuƃɥᴉs (U19365)
posted 18 minutes ago
Why does it devalue the PL?
There will be 6 guaranteed PL teams in the ESL, more than from any other league.
Only once has a team outside those 6 ever qualified for the CL. So why all of a sudden does the status quo devalue the PL?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well that's not true. The European Cup has been around since 1955. Since it has been rebranded as the Champions League (it is still classed as the same competition though and has the same historical winners as the Eurpoean Cup); Blackburn, Everton, Leeds, Newcastle and Leicester have all qualified. You might want to check your facts before you go round spouting nonsense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Most of the teams you mention qualified when it was the European Cup, a purely knockout competition. I was referring to the Champions League with emphasis on 'league' as you well know.
I do stand corrected though as Leeds, Blackburn & Newcastle have qualified for the group stages in the earlier years of the CL, but in the last 19 years this feat has only been achieved by Leicester outside of the 'big 6'.
posted on 19/4/21
comment by Dwight K Schrute (U22590)
posted 2 hours, 10 minutes ago
the big 6 are still going to want to win the PL, they're still going to be the most likely to win the PL and they're also, as per the last 19 years, one blip from Leicester aside, the most likely to occupy the top 4
...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So true.
posted on 19/4/21
comment by red_evils (U19878)
posted 59 minutes ago
At the moment, all clubs outside top 6 are fighting for Leicester dream season. You take that hope away then there will be no joy in football.
...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is incorrect, the ESL proposal states there will be 5 places to be awarded to teams based on their previous seasons performance.
I would imagine if a team achieved what Leicester did then they would be awarded one of those 5 places.
posted on 19/4/21
In the current situation in the PL, I watch my team play another team twice, home and away. I presume, if this goes ahead, I’ll probably watching them play the same team four or more times, home and away.
Home and away? What could that mean, the ‘away’ bit? Anywhere in the world? Anywhere where the owners can make more money? Middle East perhaps? China? You know, where the money is?
No relegation, no promotion to this league? So, if a mega-rich person buys a club, say like Man City, say 10-15 years ago, just saying of course, they can’t get in the super league?
I can hardly wait.
posted on 19/4/21
comment by פlǝuƃɥᴉs (U19365)
posted 4 hours, 14 minutes ago
comment by Just go already (U21166)
posted 17 seconds ago
Also, the FA or PL have no reason to sanction the participating teams whatsoever.
----
That's your opinion, they say they have and will.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
On what grounds?
Neither the FA nor PL have any say on what goes on in European football.
That is UEFA's domain.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It diminishes the competitiveness of the league when the six clubs involved qualify for Europe regardless of where they finish in the league. It also allows these clubs to coin it in, again reducing the league's competitiveness.
I honestly don't know if these 'founder clubs' can be sanctioned, if they can, they should be.
posted on 19/4/21
I would also say that the few unfortunates on here, who appear to be backing this proposal are idiots.
If they get their way do you think the greed will stop there? For example, further down the line I can envisage them wanting to play these fixtures at the weekend to further maximise revenue.
posted on 19/4/21
we've all seen the repeated complaints against uefa and fifa on here, every year.
about incompetence.
about corruption.
about stupid changes to the rules.
about cronyism and ignoring the fans, especially over ticket allocations to finals, and the selection of the stadium.
about how uefa/fifa take so much of the money generated for themselves, despite doing very little except rely on the revenue generating capacity of the teams involved.
maybe this super league is an opportunity.
first and foremost it appears to be about reducing the governing bodies percentage of the money generated, allowing the clubs that are actually creating that value to keep more for themselves. if they stick to the promise of uncapped solidarity payments to the leagues then it is possible all clubs, at all levels, will benefit.
and perhaps a competition outside of uefa or fifa's remit isnt a bad idea. a competition where the clubs involved can actually set the laws and rules, freed from the shackles of the uefa/fifa clowns and their ref's incompetence, and self-protecting rules. maybe we'll end up with a working VAR system, and understandable, and more importantly, easily applicable offside rules...
the big problem i can see with it, and which is, fairly, being levelled at the clubs involved, is that it's to protect and guarantee their continued, unlosable, participation in the competition.
as the ones taking all the risk and flak for trying to start the super league, i can see their reasoning for wanting to ensure their continuing benefit. but i can't condone not being able to lose their place.
maybe a 10 - 15 year period from inception where they can't be relegated from it, should be more than enough to ensure they get the return required to compensate for the risk and anger. if there's a fixed point from which any founding member can be relegated that should help avoid arguments that it's only about protecting their own places in the competition.
posted on 19/4/21
in case people have not noticed unfairness before
compare money 1st in championship gets excluding parachutes to 20th in prem.
Now go to spain and compare the gap between money getten by barca and 6th placed real sociedad 100mil+ . check last year where Lfc got 19mil more than spurs who finished 6th.
there's a lot of unfairness in the game today. people bleating about unfairness need to start focusing on self interest
posted on 19/4/21
there's a lot of unfairness in the game today. people bleating about unfairness need to start focusing on self interest
------------------
So, if the league table today was the final league table, Arsenal in 9th would qualify for the super league, before Leicester would sitting 3rd.
Yes, the way modern football is structured is unfairly, but this takes it to a new whole level.
It's not bleating, it's repugnant and basically it will drastically effect the our domestic game in a negative way.
posted on 19/4/21
I think most of the teams involved in the ESL would be delighted to see top level mouth watering ties on a regular basis. its the natural step forwards. Talk about commercialism and financial immorality is irrelevant. this is the natural progression for the sport.
When football turned professional there was much the same type of accusations levelled at the proposed upgrade at that time.
I can understand the frustration from fans of clubs whose teams have not been 'invited ' in. But sooner or later this was always on the cards.
Football is entertainment, and The ESL will provide it on the highest level. Want it or not it is and will be the future.
posted on 19/4/21
It’s not a natural step at all though is it. It’s the richest clubs in the world regardless of success on the pitch deciding a quick and easy step to recover funds and make more money by creating a random new competition in which they are guaranteed entry to every year regardless of performance. What is natural about that?
posted on 19/4/21
No risk for the founding clubs as there is no relegation.
I'm sure it will be gripping, with the plethora of meaningless exhibition games
posted on 19/4/21
comment by Vorsprung durch Tuchel (U1641)
posted 42 seconds ago
It’s not a natural step at all though is it. It’s the richest clubs in the world regardless of success on the pitch deciding a quick and easy step to recover funds and make more money by creating a random new competition in which they are guaranteed entry to every year regardless of performance. What is natural about that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nature has given us natural selection, the survival of the fittest, so to me its the most natural thing to follow the way of nature.
besides..its long overdue, the entertainment quality will be so much improved, it was always going to happen.
posted on 19/4/21
Plus...a few years down the road as travel logistics improve along with increase of interest in the sport, I can see this progressing to The Intercontinental League, (ICSL) with contributions from S. America, Africa, and Asia. As those countries almost certainly will invest more funds into the sport on a global basis.
posted on 19/4/21
comment by Pâî§Lë¥'&scaron... (U1541)
posted 19 minutes ago
No risk for the founding clubs as there is no relegation.
I'm sure it will be gripping, with the plethora of meaningless exhibition games
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Super trophies that will be at the top of every owners wish list.Being "best of the best" will always hold the greatest allure. Previously it was done on a provincial basis, now we will have it continental...and after some years down thread...globally.
Page 1 of 2