Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 19 minutes ago
Hilarious the knots that other greedy trough feeders are tying themselves in railing against this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Spot on. The faux outrage by fans of these clubs is laughable. It's been coming for years and they've all voted for it with their Sky packages and their £1K plus season tickets.
Will any of this affect Scottish football? I doubt it, unless the OF are invited to the party, which will not happen.
Could be kite flying, Zac. Playing Devils Advocate, fans are generally unhappy with the combination of corruption and incompetence of FIFA UEFA and their national league associations. This is an alternative model that could break away from this. Might be out of the frying pan and into the fire though eh?
It's been amusing reading about it.
Sky sports as the moral conscience of football.
The fans of a TV bankrolled league feeling its a money grab.
Uefa not realising that eventually clubs might view them, as a barrier to riches.
Us being disappointed in the idea whilst knowing we'd be in it quicker than we can get in michelle keegan if we're invited
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Zachsda( Sorry Mr. I broke yer bench) (U1850)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 22 minutes ago
Hilarious the knots that other greedy trough feeders are tying themselves in railing against this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There is an element of hypocrisy in some of those shedding tears
Doesn’t take away from this being I’ll thought out
It’s so poorly launched it feels like kite flying to make something happen down the line
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree it's a PR shambles - maybe Pistol's new job?
Agree also that it will probably end up a platform for reform within the existing regulatory structure. However, the financial basket cases in Spain and elsewhere you quote as the forces behind this are also the result of failures of those same regulatory bodies that are happy to take their share of the coin so why should they be given the chance to fck up with a bigger sum of money.
The big countries and UEFA have been tiptoeing around each other for years. Both greedy bastirts. English government, pundit and fan greets about it being non-competitive maybe need to reflect on where the game actually is outside their own cosy club because there is nothing more anti-competitive than the EPL. And, for us in particular, having to pay to watch the EPL before we can watch our own league that doesn't get a fair share.
UEFA too constraining competitive trade by drawing arbitrary national borders with a few exceptions that keeps our own clubs, and the wider game, largely unable to grow beyond an artificially decreed TV audience. That EPL clubs notional wealth is derived largely from a TV audience beyond it's borders debunks that myth.
If UEFA want to bring more development of the game and more money then they must pursue a plan that leverages the untapped markets beyond the big 5 countries but they have simply failed to do that. They move at a snail's pace trying to keep everyone happy but primarily the golden goose countries that have in turn been too good at protecting their own interests. They and FIFA's corruption have been exposed multiple times - they are in no position to take the high ground.
Politicians that couldn't give two fcks for football suddenly caring for our national (sic) institution, the ordinary fan, our culture... i.e. they think they might be popular by saying the right things.
It is all a mess. Is it the way to go - who knows. US soccer is growing hugely with a franchise model. Large scale football by design rather than some arbitrary historical basis. Is that wrong or just different?
The game in Europe IS stale - everyone has said it and knows it. Ripe for a shake up but now the first ball has been kicked we enter the feeding frenzy. Adopting that inevitable stance I want my club part of that and leveraging all opportunities to thrive so we can see the best players in our own game regularly and not wither just because we like shouting orange bastirt 4 or 5 times a year.
So we have the storm before the calm 🙏
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
An ESL is not for me. I really only watch Scottish football, never watched a full EPL game and could not be ersed watching an El Classico or an Italian derby.
That said, these proposals seem a logical extension to what has been happening gradually for years. The top teams form a closed shop, hoover up the best players sell the TV rights for a fortune. It works in America with a number of sports and for all those who say this will not work with European football two words - Kerry Packer. Tradition and history will go out of the window as the smell of BIG money begins to spread amongst clubs and amongst players. It seems hypocritical for ex-players, many of whom have become millionaires as they took money out of the system, to rail against others attempting to do the same, albeit by a different route.
comment by Zachsda( Sorry Mr. I broke yer bench) (U1850)
posted 9 minutes ago
I think it’s a set up to force change
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So do i.
Part of me thinks this is to obscure the new CL set up which actually begins to remove sporting merit with legacy clubs getting entry based on their history and the other part thinks it's they have started out this wide willing to be talked in to where they want to be.
Money will disappear from the other European competitions and have more competitors invited to make it more “interesting” so for Scottish clubs (and everyone else) the rewards won’t be so game changing in the future.
I'm not sure they counted on the Government intervening yesterday to basically say we will do whatever it takes.
The UK's major source of soft power, they seem in no mood to give that up.
Until the bungs land
comment by St3vie (U11028)
posted 1 hour, 41 minutes ago
Florentino Perez
We are doing this to save football
Bollox
You are doing this because you really don't want to have to cut your cloth
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’d be looking closer to home before coming out with statements like that.
comment by HB Fash - "like a pack of cards" (U21935)
posted 1 minute ago
I'm not sure they counted on the Government intervening yesterday to basically say we will do whatever it takes.
The UK's major source of soft power, they seem in no mood to give that up.
Until the bungs land
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Genuinely not sure what any government can do. The threats seem empty so far and already their lawyers are on the case. No doubt backed by the many millions that will be needed to fight their cause.
To me there just seems to be an inevitability about this.
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by HB Fash - "like a pack of cards" (U21935)
posted 1 minute ago
I'm not sure they counted on the Government intervening yesterday to basically say we will do whatever it takes.
The UK's major source of soft power, they seem in no mood to give that up.
Until the bungs land
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Genuinely not sure what any government can do. The threats seem empty so far and already their lawyers are on the case. No doubt backed by the many millions that will be needed to fight their cause.
To me there just seems to be an inevitability about this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"The contract of the #SuperLeague is binding. Nobody can leave, we will work all together. All the clubs signed the contracts last Saturday, there's no problem" Perez
You may be right going by that.
BUT the Government said they are willing to go as far as changing laws to stop it. I would assume their are mechanisms for them to stop it.
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by HB Fash - "like a pack of cards" (U21935)
posted 1 minute ago
I'm not sure they counted on the Government intervening yesterday to basically say we will do whatever it takes.
The UK's major source of soft power, they seem in no mood to give that up.
Until the bungs land
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Genuinely not sure what any government can do. The threats seem empty so far and already their lawyers are on the case. No doubt backed by the many millions that will be needed to fight their cause.
To me there just seems to be an inevitability about this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm surprised that anyone is surprised at this move. It does seem an inevitable consequence of money-men with their rampant capitalist ideology taking over these big clubs. And let's face it, it is what Celtic and Rangers have gradually been doing to Scottish football for years - writ large.
I regret to say it but when this goes ahead I think it will impact on our game here in Scotland. And if these people feel they need 'tradition and history' they'll simply buy it. They will simply buy a club and move it elsewhere. And when this development inevitably goes global, then you could actually have the Texas (Glasgow) Rangers playing the Boston (Glasgow) Celtic. In American football a good example the Raiders who started off in Oakland, moved to Los Angeles and are now the Las Vegas Raiders. They argue they are still the same club though...
BUT the Government said they are willing to go as far as changing laws to stop it. I would assume their are mechanisms for them to stop it
---------------------------------------------------------------------
They can try but unless they are paying the owners and buying the clubs back off them, i suspect this is all chest puffing and vote ticking, this is a business move, which they are usually all for..
comment by Tully1 (U20686)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by HB Fash - "like a pack of cards" (U21935)
posted 1 minute ago
I'm not sure they counted on the Government intervening yesterday to basically say we will do whatever it takes.
The UK's major source of soft power, they seem in no mood to give that up.
Until the bungs land
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Genuinely not sure what any government can do. The threats seem empty so far and already their lawyers are on the case. No doubt backed by the many millions that will be needed to fight their cause.
To me there just seems to be an inevitability about this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm surprised that anyone is surprised at this move. It does seem an inevitable consequence of money-men with their rampant capitalist ideology taking over these big clubs. And let's face it, it is what Celtic and Rangers have gradually been doing to Scottish football for years - writ large.
I regret to say it but when this goes ahead I think it will impact on our game here in Scotland. And if these people feel they need 'tradition and history' they'll simply buy it. They will simply buy a club and move it elsewhere. And when this development inevitably goes global, then you could actually have the Texas (Glasgow) Rangers playing the Boston (Glasgow) Celtic. In American football a good example the Raiders who started off in Oakland, moved to Los Angeles and are now the Las Vegas Raiders. They argue they are still the same club though...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Naughty
owners are temporary, fans are forever.
they are doing it to line their own pockets and see tbh i've little sympathy for these clubs and the rest.
all happy to let foreign investors treat their club as playtoys in a dickmeasuring exercise.
f... them..
comment by JFK - The Rebel Treble (U8919)
posted 1 minute ago
owners are temporary, fans are forever.
they are doing it to line their own pockets and see tbh i've little sympathy for these clubs and the rest.
all happy to let foreign investors treat their club as playtoys in a dickmeasuring exercise.
f... them..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arsenal going in knowing it's packing a baldy half incher.
it's spurs as well, what exactly makes them super?
no winning anything?
superlosers.
comment by Tully1 (U20686)
posted 2 hours, 7 minutes ago
An ESL is not for me. I really only watch Scottish football, never watched a full EPL game and could not be ersed watching an El Classico or an Italian derby.
That said, these proposals seem a logical extension to what has been happening gradually for years. The top teams form a closed shop, hoover up the best players sell the TV rights for a fortune. It works in America with a number of sports and for all those who say this will not work with European football two words - Kerry Packer. Tradition and history will go out of the window as the smell of BIG money begins to spread amongst clubs and amongst players. It seems hypocritical for ex-players, many of whom have become millionaires as they took money out of the system, to rail against others attempting to do the same, albeit by a different route.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Indeed. I think the crux is that smart business people KNOW they can extract more value than UEFA are managing. They may care slightly less about where that is distributed. The point I was alluding to in my rant is that the market in Scotland, Holland, Romania and whatever other diddy country is there to be tapped on top of any leverage within the top teams.
BTW, were we to head down a franchise route it might screw the players over if they are looking at an MLS model? Wage cap and limited designated players - very communist for the home of capitalism. Even at college level, every team is limited to 10x full rides per squad shared out over their whole squad.
comment by Back To Being Just My POV (U10636)
posted 3 hours, 18 minutes ago
comment by St3vie (U11028)
posted 1 hour, 41 minutes ago
Florentino Perez
We are doing this to save football
Bollox
You are doing this because you really don't want to have to cut your cloth
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’d be looking closer to home before coming out with statements like that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why?
Before we went into administration, we had to start cutting our cloth, we didn’t buy players for something like two seasons, we asked players to take pay cuts, we sold many of our best players.
Then Whyte took over, stopped paying PAYE, and we were fcked
Please tell me, exactly, what are Real Madrid and Barcelona doing to cut costs?
Paying players stupid money, redeveloping their stadium...and now trying to reform the whole of European football just to get themselves out of debt
Rangers being in a bit of debt is hundreds of millions of lies away from what these khunts are doing
Without looking back, you still bought players and were trying to sign a guy the day you were going into admin.
You gave out at least 2 new contracts to players from memory, and only did wage cuts when admin hit.
Any scaling back was done because the bank ordered it, not voluntarily.
But anyway, I’m meaning more the £26 million of shares issued since about last October. I don’t think it’s all been debt for equity swaps...
It’s hardly screaming that you’re living within your means.
Sign in if you want to comment
European Super League
Page 2 of 7
6 | 7
posted on 20/4/21
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 20/4/21
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 19 minutes ago
Hilarious the knots that other greedy trough feeders are tying themselves in railing against this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Spot on. The faux outrage by fans of these clubs is laughable. It's been coming for years and they've all voted for it with their Sky packages and their £1K plus season tickets.
Will any of this affect Scottish football? I doubt it, unless the OF are invited to the party, which will not happen.
posted on 20/4/21
Could be kite flying, Zac. Playing Devils Advocate, fans are generally unhappy with the combination of corruption and incompetence of FIFA UEFA and their national league associations. This is an alternative model that could break away from this. Might be out of the frying pan and into the fire though eh?
posted on 20/4/21
It's been amusing reading about it.
Sky sports as the moral conscience of football.
The fans of a TV bankrolled league feeling its a money grab.
Uefa not realising that eventually clubs might view them, as a barrier to riches.
Us being disappointed in the idea whilst knowing we'd be in it quicker than we can get in michelle keegan if we're invited
posted on 20/4/21
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 20/4/21
comment by Zachsda( Sorry Mr. I broke yer bench) (U1850)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 22 minutes ago
Hilarious the knots that other greedy trough feeders are tying themselves in railing against this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There is an element of hypocrisy in some of those shedding tears
Doesn’t take away from this being I’ll thought out
It’s so poorly launched it feels like kite flying to make something happen down the line
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree it's a PR shambles - maybe Pistol's new job?
Agree also that it will probably end up a platform for reform within the existing regulatory structure. However, the financial basket cases in Spain and elsewhere you quote as the forces behind this are also the result of failures of those same regulatory bodies that are happy to take their share of the coin so why should they be given the chance to fck up with a bigger sum of money.
The big countries and UEFA have been tiptoeing around each other for years. Both greedy bastirts. English government, pundit and fan greets about it being non-competitive maybe need to reflect on where the game actually is outside their own cosy club because there is nothing more anti-competitive than the EPL. And, for us in particular, having to pay to watch the EPL before we can watch our own league that doesn't get a fair share.
UEFA too constraining competitive trade by drawing arbitrary national borders with a few exceptions that keeps our own clubs, and the wider game, largely unable to grow beyond an artificially decreed TV audience. That EPL clubs notional wealth is derived largely from a TV audience beyond it's borders debunks that myth.
If UEFA want to bring more development of the game and more money then they must pursue a plan that leverages the untapped markets beyond the big 5 countries but they have simply failed to do that. They move at a snail's pace trying to keep everyone happy but primarily the golden goose countries that have in turn been too good at protecting their own interests. They and FIFA's corruption have been exposed multiple times - they are in no position to take the high ground.
Politicians that couldn't give two fcks for football suddenly caring for our national (sic) institution, the ordinary fan, our culture... i.e. they think they might be popular by saying the right things.
It is all a mess. Is it the way to go - who knows. US soccer is growing hugely with a franchise model. Large scale football by design rather than some arbitrary historical basis. Is that wrong or just different?
The game in Europe IS stale - everyone has said it and knows it. Ripe for a shake up but now the first ball has been kicked we enter the feeding frenzy. Adopting that inevitable stance I want my club part of that and leveraging all opportunities to thrive so we can see the best players in our own game regularly and not wither just because we like shouting orange bastirt 4 or 5 times a year.
posted on 20/4/21
So we have the storm before the calm 🙏
posted on 20/4/21
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 20/4/21
An ESL is not for me. I really only watch Scottish football, never watched a full EPL game and could not be ersed watching an El Classico or an Italian derby.
That said, these proposals seem a logical extension to what has been happening gradually for years. The top teams form a closed shop, hoover up the best players sell the TV rights for a fortune. It works in America with a number of sports and for all those who say this will not work with European football two words - Kerry Packer. Tradition and history will go out of the window as the smell of BIG money begins to spread amongst clubs and amongst players. It seems hypocritical for ex-players, many of whom have become millionaires as they took money out of the system, to rail against others attempting to do the same, albeit by a different route.
posted on 20/4/21
comment by Zachsda( Sorry Mr. I broke yer bench) (U1850)
posted 9 minutes ago
I think it’s a set up to force change
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So do i.
Part of me thinks this is to obscure the new CL set up which actually begins to remove sporting merit with legacy clubs getting entry based on their history and the other part thinks it's they have started out this wide willing to be talked in to where they want to be.
posted on 20/4/21
Money will disappear from the other European competitions and have more competitors invited to make it more “interesting” so for Scottish clubs (and everyone else) the rewards won’t be so game changing in the future.
posted on 20/4/21
I'm not sure they counted on the Government intervening yesterday to basically say we will do whatever it takes.
The UK's major source of soft power, they seem in no mood to give that up.
Until the bungs land
posted on 20/4/21
comment by St3vie (U11028)
posted 1 hour, 41 minutes ago
Florentino Perez
We are doing this to save football
Bollox
You are doing this because you really don't want to have to cut your cloth
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’d be looking closer to home before coming out with statements like that.
posted on 20/4/21
comment by HB Fash - "like a pack of cards" (U21935)
posted 1 minute ago
I'm not sure they counted on the Government intervening yesterday to basically say we will do whatever it takes.
The UK's major source of soft power, they seem in no mood to give that up.
Until the bungs land
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Genuinely not sure what any government can do. The threats seem empty so far and already their lawyers are on the case. No doubt backed by the many millions that will be needed to fight their cause.
To me there just seems to be an inevitability about this.
posted on 20/4/21
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by HB Fash - "like a pack of cards" (U21935)
posted 1 minute ago
I'm not sure they counted on the Government intervening yesterday to basically say we will do whatever it takes.
The UK's major source of soft power, they seem in no mood to give that up.
Until the bungs land
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Genuinely not sure what any government can do. The threats seem empty so far and already their lawyers are on the case. No doubt backed by the many millions that will be needed to fight their cause.
To me there just seems to be an inevitability about this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"The contract of the #SuperLeague is binding. Nobody can leave, we will work all together. All the clubs signed the contracts last Saturday, there's no problem" Perez
You may be right going by that.
BUT the Government said they are willing to go as far as changing laws to stop it. I would assume their are mechanisms for them to stop it.
posted on 20/4/21
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by HB Fash - "like a pack of cards" (U21935)
posted 1 minute ago
I'm not sure they counted on the Government intervening yesterday to basically say we will do whatever it takes.
The UK's major source of soft power, they seem in no mood to give that up.
Until the bungs land
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Genuinely not sure what any government can do. The threats seem empty so far and already their lawyers are on the case. No doubt backed by the many millions that will be needed to fight their cause.
To me there just seems to be an inevitability about this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm surprised that anyone is surprised at this move. It does seem an inevitable consequence of money-men with their rampant capitalist ideology taking over these big clubs. And let's face it, it is what Celtic and Rangers have gradually been doing to Scottish football for years - writ large.
I regret to say it but when this goes ahead I think it will impact on our game here in Scotland. And if these people feel they need 'tradition and history' they'll simply buy it. They will simply buy a club and move it elsewhere. And when this development inevitably goes global, then you could actually have the Texas (Glasgow) Rangers playing the Boston (Glasgow) Celtic. In American football a good example the Raiders who started off in Oakland, moved to Los Angeles and are now the Las Vegas Raiders. They argue they are still the same club though...
posted on 20/4/21
BUT the Government said they are willing to go as far as changing laws to stop it. I would assume their are mechanisms for them to stop it
---------------------------------------------------------------------
They can try but unless they are paying the owners and buying the clubs back off them, i suspect this is all chest puffing and vote ticking, this is a business move, which they are usually all for..
posted on 20/4/21
comment by Tully1 (U20686)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by HB Fash - "like a pack of cards" (U21935)
posted 1 minute ago
I'm not sure they counted on the Government intervening yesterday to basically say we will do whatever it takes.
The UK's major source of soft power, they seem in no mood to give that up.
Until the bungs land
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Genuinely not sure what any government can do. The threats seem empty so far and already their lawyers are on the case. No doubt backed by the many millions that will be needed to fight their cause.
To me there just seems to be an inevitability about this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm surprised that anyone is surprised at this move. It does seem an inevitable consequence of money-men with their rampant capitalist ideology taking over these big clubs. And let's face it, it is what Celtic and Rangers have gradually been doing to Scottish football for years - writ large.
I regret to say it but when this goes ahead I think it will impact on our game here in Scotland. And if these people feel they need 'tradition and history' they'll simply buy it. They will simply buy a club and move it elsewhere. And when this development inevitably goes global, then you could actually have the Texas (Glasgow) Rangers playing the Boston (Glasgow) Celtic. In American football a good example the Raiders who started off in Oakland, moved to Los Angeles and are now the Las Vegas Raiders. They argue they are still the same club though...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Naughty
posted on 20/4/21
owners are temporary, fans are forever.
they are doing it to line their own pockets and see tbh i've little sympathy for these clubs and the rest.
all happy to let foreign investors treat their club as playtoys in a dickmeasuring exercise.
f... them..
posted on 20/4/21
comment by JFK - The Rebel Treble (U8919)
posted 1 minute ago
owners are temporary, fans are forever.
they are doing it to line their own pockets and see tbh i've little sympathy for these clubs and the rest.
all happy to let foreign investors treat their club as playtoys in a dickmeasuring exercise.
f... them..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arsenal going in knowing it's packing a baldy half incher.
posted on 20/4/21
it's spurs as well, what exactly makes them super?
no winning anything?
superlosers.
posted on 20/4/21
comment by Tully1 (U20686)
posted 2 hours, 7 minutes ago
An ESL is not for me. I really only watch Scottish football, never watched a full EPL game and could not be ersed watching an El Classico or an Italian derby.
That said, these proposals seem a logical extension to what has been happening gradually for years. The top teams form a closed shop, hoover up the best players sell the TV rights for a fortune. It works in America with a number of sports and for all those who say this will not work with European football two words - Kerry Packer. Tradition and history will go out of the window as the smell of BIG money begins to spread amongst clubs and amongst players. It seems hypocritical for ex-players, many of whom have become millionaires as they took money out of the system, to rail against others attempting to do the same, albeit by a different route.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Indeed. I think the crux is that smart business people KNOW they can extract more value than UEFA are managing. They may care slightly less about where that is distributed. The point I was alluding to in my rant is that the market in Scotland, Holland, Romania and whatever other diddy country is there to be tapped on top of any leverage within the top teams.
BTW, were we to head down a franchise route it might screw the players over if they are looking at an MLS model? Wage cap and limited designated players - very communist for the home of capitalism. Even at college level, every team is limited to 10x full rides per squad shared out over their whole squad.
posted on 20/4/21
comment by Back To Being Just My POV (U10636)
posted 3 hours, 18 minutes ago
comment by St3vie (U11028)
posted 1 hour, 41 minutes ago
Florentino Perez
We are doing this to save football
Bollox
You are doing this because you really don't want to have to cut your cloth
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’d be looking closer to home before coming out with statements like that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why?
Before we went into administration, we had to start cutting our cloth, we didn’t buy players for something like two seasons, we asked players to take pay cuts, we sold many of our best players.
Then Whyte took over, stopped paying PAYE, and we were fcked
Please tell me, exactly, what are Real Madrid and Barcelona doing to cut costs?
Paying players stupid money, redeveloping their stadium...and now trying to reform the whole of European football just to get themselves out of debt
Rangers being in a bit of debt is hundreds of millions of lies away from what these khunts are doing
posted on 20/4/21
*miles not lies
posted on 20/4/21
Without looking back, you still bought players and were trying to sign a guy the day you were going into admin.
You gave out at least 2 new contracts to players from memory, and only did wage cuts when admin hit.
Any scaling back was done because the bank ordered it, not voluntarily.
But anyway, I’m meaning more the £26 million of shares issued since about last October. I don’t think it’s all been debt for equity swaps...
It’s hardly screaming that you’re living within your means.
Page 2 of 7
6 | 7