TheresOnlyOneReds, he did leave the ground! Therefore it was reckless! And therefore you can consider yourself lucky that the ref saw the incident and there will be no retrospective ban!
comment by Tommy (The Machine Gun) Towton - Deputy (U11544)
posted 31 seconds ago
I still can't accept that a player can get sent off for not touching an opponent.Unless he has malicious intent.The intent is everything for me.
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It's all about the reckless nature. I understand your point, but I'd rather see players continue playing than have careers cut short.
comment by merrysupersteve (U1132)
posted 14 seconds ago
TheresOnlyOneReds, he did leave the ground! Therefore it was reckless! And therefore you can consider yourself lucky that the ref saw the incident and there will be no retrospective ban!
------------------------------------------------
Read the rules, you clearly don't understand them.
You'll be saying Carragher's on Nani last season should have been a red next.
I do. Out of control is clearly referenced. As is two footed. I have never seen a controlled tackle beginning in a lunging motion off the ground. But you obviously have. Fair play!
You'll be saying Carragher's on Nani last season should have been a red next
That'll whip em up
As far as the FA are concerned, two footed challenges and punches are both red cards offences. Whether they make contact is irrelevent so yes they are pretty much the same.
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Thats a classic Elvis! I can just see a player who's just been sent off for punching someone - 'but i was going for the ball ref, honest'
----------------
Of course Scholes wasn't going for the ball. Never said he was. The point being he didn't make contact but he was still sent as it is a red card offence. Same with Kompany. Johnson should have gone tonight also.
If people really think that Kompany's and Johnson's tackles deserve to be red then I really fear for football.
The problem here is that people are anti a certain club, or clubs, and cannot see the damage that a red card for these offences is actually doing to football.
I understand that fans of clubs that are on the wrong end of these decisions/non-decisions cry foul but at the end of the day it is football, we like to see tackles don't we, we like to see players try to win the ball don't we?
If it carries on the way it is then tackling will become non-existant, players will be scared to challenge because they may time it wrong, be half a second too late with a genuine challenge and then be sent off, thus ruining not only their game but also the spectacle more often than not...is that what we want?
>>Of course Scholes wasn't going for the ball. Never said he was.
I don't think anyone has said that to be fair. Ever.
TOOR
The FAs rule book may not mention 2 footers, but it has been obvious for 4 years that two footed challenges are no longer acceptable irrespective of whether contact is made. As far as they are concerned two footers come under the reckless category. Johnson got lucky tonight.
Elvis. Its a pretty weak argument though. Just because they're both red cards, doesn't make them 'pretty much the same'. Handling the ball on the line is a red card offence, but you wouldn't class it the same would you? A punch is a pre-meditated act of violence. A two-footed tackle is an attempt to win the ball. Obviously this changes if you take the player out intentionally.
I completely agree that Kompany's and Johnson's tackles were no different. None should of been a red, both were honest attempts to win the ball and didn't touch the player.
The law's an ass!
posted 52 seconds ago
If people really think that Kompany's and Johnson's tackles deserve to be red then I really fear for football.
The problem here is that people are anti a certain club, or clubs, and cannot see the damage that a red card for these offences is actually doing to football.
----------------
PL players no that the FA don't like two footers. So if they don't want to risk getting sent off they shouldnt do them. It's that simple. No one to blame but themselves.
People need to realise that this is not an anti-any club rant!
There is no doubt that if it was Giggs rather than Kompany or Milner rather than Johnson, then the opposite of what many fans are saying would be being posted!
If you cannot tackle like Kompany or Johnson tackled then the rules need to be looked at imo! Unles of course you want football to be devoid of passion and tackles!
comment by terentius1 (U1863)
posted 21 seconds ago
Elvis. Its a pretty weak argument though. Just because they're both red cards, doesn't make them 'pretty much the same'. Handling the ball on the line is a red card offence, but you wouldn't class it the same would you? A punch is a pre-meditated act of violence. A two-footed tackle is an attempt to win the ball. Obviously this changes if you take the player out intentionally.
-----------------------
The point being that the FA deem them as red card offences whether or not there is any contact. So as a player you really shouldn't be carrying out any two footed challenges. Kompany has no one to blame but himself. He could have won the ball going on with one foot anyway.
Elvis (U7425)
So you are okay with players getting sent off for trying to win the ball? I understand the rules and what they say, but the FA rules also say that any foul and abusive language is against the rules, yet they seem okay to let that slip by all the time...so what is it to be, either apply the rules or don't, don't let Lampard off for a clear malicious foul and punish others, be consistent...and if you can't be consistent, then look at the rules again...that's all I'm saying!
comment by terentius1 (U1863)
posted 21 seconds ago
Elvis. Its a pretty weak argument though. Just because they're both red cards, doesn't make them 'pretty much the same'. Handling the ball on the line is a red card offence, but you wouldn't class it the same would you? A punch is a pre-meditated act of violence. A two-footed tackle is an attempt to win the ball. Obviously this changes if you take the player out intentionally.
-----------------------
The point being that the FA deem them as red card offences whether or not there is any contact. So as a player you really shouldn't be carrying out any two footed challenges. Kompany has no one to blame but himself. He could have won the ball going on with one foot anyway.
----------------------
You won't hear me disagreeing about the lack of consistency, it is very frustrating. I do however believe that two footed tackles are rightly not allowed by the FA as they are just too dangerous. Saw Evans break a lads leg last season I think it was - he went to win the ball but his tackle was reckless. Not nice to see.
If every 2 footed tackle is a red card offence then the laws of the game should clearly state this. The question remins as to why the laws of the game don't state this. The only logical explanation is that there must be some 2 footed tackles which are permitted.
But not 2 footed tackles off that begin off the ground. I referenced Evanss tackle earlier and am happy to be bookmarked on this. I think that any tackle that begins with an off tho ground lunge is worth a red, be it a City, Liverpool, United or Wigan player! I thought the decision was right when we played Bolton, right on Sunday and wrong tonight. That is how I interpret it but others do not. And that seems to go for referees too, hence the inconsistencies shown.
bluegumption
It is clear that if a two footed tackle happens against your club then it is unfair, that is expected! However if it is from one of your players then it is okay!
The double standard that is clearly being shown here is ridiculous, to me it is ruining football and to all those who say things like, 'he could have broken his leg if...' the fact is he didn't, whoever it is you are referring to! We are in danger of letting the PC nature take over football, football is about tackling, winning the ball etc etc, we are becoming a society full of wimps who feel that complaining is the way ahead, I fear for football if the PC brigade that are rife at the moment really do become the majority!
For my tuppence worth, if Kompany's was a red card on Sunday, Johnson's should have been red tonight and I can see why City would feel aggrieved. If two-footed tackles are being cracked down absolutely, referees need enforce that consistently.
Now, here's the thing. I think that both were good tackles. This only became a talking point tonight because Johnson went in with two feet but I'd say the risk of injury would have been the same if he'd led with one foot. A two-footed challenge isn't inheritantly dangerous and one-footed isn't inherently safe. Each tackle, one or two footed, should be judged on its own merits. Was it well timed? Did it get the ball? Was there intent? How much risk really was there?
Sometimes, I do but wonder if it wouldn't just be easier to ban tackling altogether?
blueboy
I agree with your first point, if Kompany's was red then so was Johnson's, However, and alluding to your second point, neither was deserving of a red.
If Rooney and Gerrard are allowed to go around and elbow people, and the FA feel they cannot act because the incidents were dealt with during the game, then how on Earth can they command respect with their 'it could cause injury' stance with regards to the recent tackle from Kompany, and thus ban him for 4 games?
Clearly Rooney's elbow was more dangerous, it could have led to brain damage, than Kompany's attempt to win the ball that unfortunately led to Nani trying to win the ball back!
A bit more common sense would do, we can all see the glaring hypocrisy, or the lack of a real control of the game, so why can the FA not?
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
brightdave
Yeah, I was trying to emphasise the problem that exists, elbowing someone in the side of the head should imo be seen as more dangerous!
We all know Rooney got away with it cos the ref reported it during the game, but tell me what is worse, a mistimed tackle or a deliberate elbow to the side of the head?
Do you really think that Kompany's tackle was worth a 3 game ban when Rooney's assault was considered okay cos the ref seen it and didn't act accordingly? Really?
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Gerrard calls Mancini a hypocrite!
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posted on 11/1/12
TheresOnlyOneReds, he did leave the ground! Therefore it was reckless! And therefore you can consider yourself lucky that the ref saw the incident and there will be no retrospective ban!
posted on 11/1/12
comment by Tommy (The Machine Gun) Towton - Deputy (U11544)
posted 31 seconds ago
I still can't accept that a player can get sent off for not touching an opponent.Unless he has malicious intent.The intent is everything for me.
----------------------
It's all about the reckless nature. I understand your point, but I'd rather see players continue playing than have careers cut short.
posted on 11/1/12
comment by merrysupersteve (U1132)
posted 14 seconds ago
TheresOnlyOneReds, he did leave the ground! Therefore it was reckless! And therefore you can consider yourself lucky that the ref saw the incident and there will be no retrospective ban!
------------------------------------------------
Read the rules, you clearly don't understand them.
posted on 11/1/12
You'll be saying Carragher's on Nani last season should have been a red next.
posted on 11/1/12
posted on 11/1/12
I do. Out of control is clearly referenced. As is two footed. I have never seen a controlled tackle beginning in a lunging motion off the ground. But you obviously have. Fair play!
posted on 11/1/12
You'll be saying Carragher's on Nani last season should have been a red next
That'll whip em up
posted on 11/1/12
As far as the FA are concerned, two footed challenges and punches are both red cards offences. Whether they make contact is irrelevent so yes they are pretty much the same.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Thats a classic Elvis! I can just see a player who's just been sent off for punching someone - 'but i was going for the ball ref, honest'
----------------
Of course Scholes wasn't going for the ball. Never said he was. The point being he didn't make contact but he was still sent as it is a red card offence. Same with Kompany. Johnson should have gone tonight also.
posted on 11/1/12
If people really think that Kompany's and Johnson's tackles deserve to be red then I really fear for football.
The problem here is that people are anti a certain club, or clubs, and cannot see the damage that a red card for these offences is actually doing to football.
I understand that fans of clubs that are on the wrong end of these decisions/non-decisions cry foul but at the end of the day it is football, we like to see tackles don't we, we like to see players try to win the ball don't we?
If it carries on the way it is then tackling will become non-existant, players will be scared to challenge because they may time it wrong, be half a second too late with a genuine challenge and then be sent off, thus ruining not only their game but also the spectacle more often than not...is that what we want?
posted on 11/1/12
>>Of course Scholes wasn't going for the ball. Never said he was.
I don't think anyone has said that to be fair. Ever.
posted on 11/1/12
TOOR
The FAs rule book may not mention 2 footers, but it has been obvious for 4 years that two footed challenges are no longer acceptable irrespective of whether contact is made. As far as they are concerned two footers come under the reckless category. Johnson got lucky tonight.
posted on 11/1/12
Elvis. Its a pretty weak argument though. Just because they're both red cards, doesn't make them 'pretty much the same'. Handling the ball on the line is a red card offence, but you wouldn't class it the same would you? A punch is a pre-meditated act of violence. A two-footed tackle is an attempt to win the ball. Obviously this changes if you take the player out intentionally.
I completely agree that Kompany's and Johnson's tackles were no different. None should of been a red, both were honest attempts to win the ball and didn't touch the player.
The law's an ass!
posted on 11/1/12
posted 52 seconds ago
If people really think that Kompany's and Johnson's tackles deserve to be red then I really fear for football.
The problem here is that people are anti a certain club, or clubs, and cannot see the damage that a red card for these offences is actually doing to football.
----------------
PL players no that the FA don't like two footers. So if they don't want to risk getting sent off they shouldnt do them. It's that simple. No one to blame but themselves.
posted on 11/1/12
People need to realise that this is not an anti-any club rant!
There is no doubt that if it was Giggs rather than Kompany or Milner rather than Johnson, then the opposite of what many fans are saying would be being posted!
If you cannot tackle like Kompany or Johnson tackled then the rules need to be looked at imo! Unles of course you want football to be devoid of passion and tackles!
posted on 11/1/12
comment by terentius1 (U1863)
posted 21 seconds ago
Elvis. Its a pretty weak argument though. Just because they're both red cards, doesn't make them 'pretty much the same'. Handling the ball on the line is a red card offence, but you wouldn't class it the same would you? A punch is a pre-meditated act of violence. A two-footed tackle is an attempt to win the ball. Obviously this changes if you take the player out intentionally.
-----------------------
The point being that the FA deem them as red card offences whether or not there is any contact. So as a player you really shouldn't be carrying out any two footed challenges. Kompany has no one to blame but himself. He could have won the ball going on with one foot anyway.
posted on 11/1/12
Elvis (U7425)
So you are okay with players getting sent off for trying to win the ball? I understand the rules and what they say, but the FA rules also say that any foul and abusive language is against the rules, yet they seem okay to let that slip by all the time...so what is it to be, either apply the rules or don't, don't let Lampard off for a clear malicious foul and punish others, be consistent...and if you can't be consistent, then look at the rules again...that's all I'm saying!
posted on 11/1/12
comment by terentius1 (U1863)
posted 21 seconds ago
Elvis. Its a pretty weak argument though. Just because they're both red cards, doesn't make them 'pretty much the same'. Handling the ball on the line is a red card offence, but you wouldn't class it the same would you? A punch is a pre-meditated act of violence. A two-footed tackle is an attempt to win the ball. Obviously this changes if you take the player out intentionally.
-----------------------
The point being that the FA deem them as red card offences whether or not there is any contact. So as a player you really shouldn't be carrying out any two footed challenges. Kompany has no one to blame but himself. He could have won the ball going on with one foot anyway.
----------------------
You won't hear me disagreeing about the lack of consistency, it is very frustrating. I do however believe that two footed tackles are rightly not allowed by the FA as they are just too dangerous. Saw Evans break a lads leg last season I think it was - he went to win the ball but his tackle was reckless. Not nice to see.
posted on 11/1/12
If every 2 footed tackle is a red card offence then the laws of the game should clearly state this. The question remins as to why the laws of the game don't state this. The only logical explanation is that there must be some 2 footed tackles which are permitted.
posted on 11/1/12
But not 2 footed tackles off that begin off the ground. I referenced Evanss tackle earlier and am happy to be bookmarked on this. I think that any tackle that begins with an off tho ground lunge is worth a red, be it a City, Liverpool, United or Wigan player! I thought the decision was right when we played Bolton, right on Sunday and wrong tonight. That is how I interpret it but others do not. And that seems to go for referees too, hence the inconsistencies shown.
posted on 11/1/12
bluegumption
It is clear that if a two footed tackle happens against your club then it is unfair, that is expected! However if it is from one of your players then it is okay!
The double standard that is clearly being shown here is ridiculous, to me it is ruining football and to all those who say things like, 'he could have broken his leg if...' the fact is he didn't, whoever it is you are referring to! We are in danger of letting the PC nature take over football, football is about tackling, winning the ball etc etc, we are becoming a society full of wimps who feel that complaining is the way ahead, I fear for football if the PC brigade that are rife at the moment really do become the majority!
posted on 11/1/12
For my tuppence worth, if Kompany's was a red card on Sunday, Johnson's should have been red tonight and I can see why City would feel aggrieved. If two-footed tackles are being cracked down absolutely, referees need enforce that consistently.
Now, here's the thing. I think that both were good tackles. This only became a talking point tonight because Johnson went in with two feet but I'd say the risk of injury would have been the same if he'd led with one foot. A two-footed challenge isn't inheritantly dangerous and one-footed isn't inherently safe. Each tackle, one or two footed, should be judged on its own merits. Was it well timed? Did it get the ball? Was there intent? How much risk really was there?
Sometimes, I do but wonder if it wouldn't just be easier to ban tackling altogether?
posted on 12/1/12
blueboy
I agree with your first point, if Kompany's was red then so was Johnson's, However, and alluding to your second point, neither was deserving of a red.
If Rooney and Gerrard are allowed to go around and elbow people, and the FA feel they cannot act because the incidents were dealt with during the game, then how on Earth can they command respect with their 'it could cause injury' stance with regards to the recent tackle from Kompany, and thus ban him for 4 games?
Clearly Rooney's elbow was more dangerous, it could have led to brain damage, than Kompany's attempt to win the ball that unfortunately led to Nani trying to win the ball back!
A bit more common sense would do, we can all see the glaring hypocrisy, or the lack of a real control of the game, so why can the FA not?
posted on 12/1/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 12/1/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 12/1/12
brightdave
Yeah, I was trying to emphasise the problem that exists, elbowing someone in the side of the head should imo be seen as more dangerous!
We all know Rooney got away with it cos the ref reported it during the game, but tell me what is worse, a mistimed tackle or a deliberate elbow to the side of the head?
Do you really think that Kompany's tackle was worth a 3 game ban when Rooney's assault was considered okay cos the ref seen it and didn't act accordingly? Really?
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