Getting 'steamed up'

My take on this is I also loved going as a kid and probably my favourite time was in the old stadium in the Cowshed and going to loads of away games, having a bovril and wagon wheel!

The thing is I think its the same reason people say "things arent as good as they used to be" about a range of things and thats nostalgia. I for example have always been into video games and certain ones from my youth I loved but if you play them now they are shockingly bad. I think its partly its great for the time, partly you know no better and partly because of what went with it. So from a football perspective when I was younger I would go to the ground with mates from school but we all moved on and now its me and my dad who have gone together, for the last 20 years probably. It doesnt make it any worse but it is different, I view it like being a dumb 18 year old getting wrecked in a club drinking stuff that tastes like [insert swear word here] just to get drunk. No way would I do that now but I enjoy nights out differently to the way I did and atleast there is less chance of a fight or getting arrested!

In the old ground as a kid it was sometimes terrible to watch, as you just couldnt. I was lucky we had a regular stanchon we were stood at and so I was raised off the ground but still sometimes you couldnt see the game. It was also a bit scary when the crowd would sway in the big stands and that was with not that many fans turning up. I personally prefer a modern stadium but I agree that we shouldnt just stick to what was right 20 years ago but look at best practice from around the world.

Some fans want to stand, some dont. The logical conclusion is to find a safe manner of doing that so those that want to can go there and those that dont can get a better view. The german example is valid although we are referencing teams who are in their top flight and competing at the highest levels in europe so their financial situation will be fundementally different. From a recent trip to Croke Park in Dublin I saw the terrace area used for the Gaelic Football and it was great. Second half the noise coming from it was defeaning but equally it was silent first half. I actually have had meetings with architects in Dublin that designed the stadium and they spent a long time sorting out the terrace, it was a major issue and had to be safe but also satisfy the fans. Therefore there are good best practice examples out there of how we could do it. For me the most logical solution is to rethink the family stand idea and build an adaptable terrace where that was. You could probably get a thousand or two people in there so that should cover the singing section and those who want it. They wouldnt have to adapt the roof as they would stick with the existing profile and so its probably a million quid at most to do.

They would have to move the family stand into one of the main stands but in some ways it makes more sense to integrate rather than segregate as it makes progression to an adult fan more logical and means as kids grow up they are not in the "kiddy stand" as it were.

I want to bring my son to the games in a few years time but have no intention of going in that stand so for me it serves no real purpose. We are in a social media age where connecting fans isnt done by a man in a costume but through targetted messaging.

By creating that terrace we would have fans behind the goal, sorted out the standing issue, gathered together a singing section and avoided the South Stand issue. We can moan all we like but the clubs hands will be tied by what the safety officer says and if they say its not safe to move visiting fans it wont happen. Things change and so it may be possible to do in time but as these officers are often more scared of being sued then making a tough decision it is unlikely.

The issue is who pays for it but as we are 40% owners now we could stump up for it for some concessions elsewhere. It would likely be popular with rugby fans and so its a win win. It could be designed in a way to be easily adapted for other events taking place and the existing infrastructure and services are already in place. From a safety perspective it would have controlled access, gone are the sneaking in days, everyone could have to have a season card to be in there so you would know exactly how many are in there and who is in there. From a policing perspective its as far from the aways fans as possible so makes sense, plus it is easier from a management perspective as you dont need as many stewards telling people to sit down!

Interesting and articulate post MB

I do honestly believe if a standing section was implemented in the manner that you suggested, and between one and two thousand tickets were available for those wanting to stand, it would sell out every single game. I also actually believe it would result in many being turned away.

Like you say, it would also appeal to the Rugby supporters also. I'm sure Darn, like me, has find memories of the atmosphere created in the old Thrum Hall "scratching shed".

Dean loves the positive PR more than anything else that his role entails, I'm certain of that. So how about becoming a pioneer in bringing safe standing zones back into football? It wouldn't just be Town fans who would laud him for it, he'd be a hero to all football fans who want a return of the terraces.

...at least canvass opinion first, show that he's on our side. Nobody would fault him if he failed having had a really good go.

At the moment everything just seems to have a poor excuse attached.

"Safety officer said no"

"WYP said no"

Well I say YES! You're the boss so start telling these "authority figures" that as you're paying them handsomely, to stop sitting on their hands and start looking for alternatives.

It might not be easy. It might even take 5 years to fully implement. But it's time for the so-called "fan" to show us that he at least cares about our gripes. We don't expect to be privy to a padded seat and a 5 course feed at every game, like he is, but for my £30 I want things tailored to suit my needs or I won't go, simple as that.

Some excellent posts on here.

I'm also in favour of a 'safe standing area'. Standing at a football game never killed anyone, negligence by those in charge that day did.

Town fans want a section behind the goals and at this moment in time it will have to be at the North end of the stadium. The South stand will never be a option to ourselves until the day that we are able to sell out the other stands, only then will the club look at splitting the South stand to maximise revenue as they have have done in recent years at the grounds of Stoke City and Swansea for example....it can be done but the real reason behind it all is money.
The North stand lower would cater for enough like minded people to stand at a game and would be cheaper than what the Kilner Bank is these days.

IMO the Family Stand has major flaws
A) it's too big(it's never full)
B) it's too far away from the pitch so the kids don't actually feel part of the game.
Shift them down the side of the pitch, either the North end of the Kilner Bank or the Lower tier of the Direct Golf Stand

It would need to be (and I hate this phrase) "a journey" to get a safe standing area in a UK ground. Right now they common wisdom is that all seater stadia are the only safe option for larger crowds. This has been challenged in other countries and there is evidence that providing atleast an element so terracing is safe. The trouble is there would need to be a coordinated movement to make it happen and not just from Town, we would need a dozen clubs with us to make it happen.

The reason for that is if it is not considered safe (regardless of whether it is or not) we wouldnt get a safety certificate and then it could not be occupied and would cause problems with insurance so KSDL would never allow it. What has to happen first is, like with the acceptance of goal line technology, the powers that be need a new study to say it can be safe. This then needs to be disseminated down to a local level and then you would pick a test case to prove it works. Town could fit that role perfectly if the family stand option was viable as you could test it out there with limited capacity and if it is rejected you still have spare capacity within the ground to accommodate those displaced fans from the family stand.

Our terrace would have access and egress from the sides and with controlled numbers and so the "crush" situation isnt possible as used to be the case when fans flooded in from the back. As we have a temporanry stand there already it would be simple to use a temporary terrace on the existing footings and not require any major modifications. There is nice safe area on the side of where the terrace would be to congregate safely and to leave in a controlled manner. Plus if the fans there get out of hand its easier to contain them away from the away fans as they are futher away.

We no longer pen fans in and apart from to end of season invasion, people are very rarely on the pitch these days. With say 2,000 fans it is a small enough number that in an absolute emergency you could very quickly get people away safely.

I personally have no interest in going in the terrace but as some do I think its fair to give it a shot and as Champers mentioned it could be very popular.

Singing sections do tend to raise the volume in a stadium and having it right behind the goal could atleast be a bit more intimidating to the away team than seeing a bunch of kids and our mascot (although that Andy Booth was was scary! Who though of that and is it now dead and burried??!!).

From a marketing perpective its an easy win, you call it our "kop" or something like that. You can even sell special "kop" scarves and gear, make it a place people want to go and feel connected.

It wouldnt take any more maintenance than any temporary stand in reality as it would be pretty robust and anyone trashing the place would be thrown out by stewards.

http://www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/safe-standing/

there is already a 24 team lobby of support for this, and representations have and are being made. Town said they may well consider adding their name to this group if the survey showed sufficient demand for it..

Costings would be an issue, but as I've stated before, the temporary seating in the FM Lower will, at some point, need replacing to remain 'safe'.So there is a cost avoidance at a future date (whatever that is).

A permanent structure would have access points within the stand and at either end...a concourse with 'facilities' under neath, safe railings as per the video clip attached above...

As for the argument about future 'rock concerts' , well the market has shifted on this although I believe there was a local schools concert there not so long ago..

There is space enough below the FM private boxes to have a decent enough incline on a standing area, and space enough at the front to extend it a few meters too..the capacity would be greater than the existing seating , as shown at Hanover 96 in the video

http://www.fsf.org.uk/latest-news/view/bristol-city-propose-rail-seats-at-ashton-gate

..and here's Bristol City...going ahead..along with a few other clubs..with the rail seats proven to be safe and used in Europe..

Croke Park is a good example of it done right with a 13,000 terrace, not this "rail seating" which surely is a compromise too far in all areas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill_16

Its funny how boozed up gaelic footy fans can behave well in the terrace (without segregation aswell!) and yet football fans cant.

"For most international soccer and rugby matches temporary seating was added to comply with their governing body rules. At every soccer game at the stadium to date, Hill 16 has either had seats added or has remained closed (despite UEFA regulations allowing it to remain open as a terrace for friendly games). Since the redevelopment of the IRFU owned stadium at Lansdowne Road the usage of the stadium for soccer and rugby matches has ceased."

anyone remember the Luddites?

Mirf was one of them...