Team Doesn't Know How To Press

Southhampton finished where their spending and squad should have. No better, no worse, no over-achieving, no miracles.
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If you say so.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/may/01/premier-league-accounts-club-by-club-david-conn

"Southhampton finished where their spending and squad should have. No better, no worse, no over-achieving, no miracles."

On the contrary, unlike our par-for-expectation achievements which some see as some kind of miracle, Southampton is a massively overachieving club.

All the teams that finished above them were tipped to challenge Champions League places and if you even attempt to argue that finishing 8th wasn't a great achievement for Southampton
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I was not suggesting that at all. I was making the point that although they started the high press game at the start of the season they did not continue that tactic at the end of the season. In fact they were withdrawing and trying to hit teams on the break by the end of the season.

was not suggesting that at all. I was making the point that although they started the high press game at the start of the season they did not continue that tactic at the end of the season. In fact they were withdrawing and trying to hit teams on the break by the end of the season.
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Far from true. Now, you're making things up. I remember when Everton were threatening to pip us to 4th towards the end of last season and they met Southampton, who absolutely battered them to smitherens and Everton couldn't cope - the same Everton that hammered us 3-0 just a few weeks earlier. Southampton lost a hell of a lot of games last season where the score line never told the story. I remember for between 60 to 70 mins, they outplayed both Chelsea and Liverpool, but both those sides rallied late to trounce them 3-0 on the counter. I remember we fluked a 2-0 win over them at the Emirates and we barely crossed the half-way in the return leg where Shaw and Chambers were playing like wingers. I remember them missing about 8 of their starting 11 and still outplaying Spurs. I remember they were the only side to go to Anfield and dominate and win the game. I remember they went to the Etihad and outplayed City when they were battering everyone else in the league.

Southampton had their moments of defensive naivety and inexperience and while their frontline wasn't too terrible, it wasn't very efficient and lacked that extra world class quality. But their high energy game was often a nightmare to play against. And they finished far above where they should have been. If they had a Diego Costa equivalent upfront, we may have had the PL's version of Atletico Madrid.

Yes, I am making thinks things up because my opinion differs to yours.

No, it's because what you said was clearly untrue and wasn't based on evident facts. What games did you watch that made you claim Southampton were "withdrawing and trying to hit teams on the break"?

comment by Sheriff John Brown - bring back David Dein (U7482)
posted 7 hours, 5 minutes ago
"The teams you mention in no way employ that philosophy on a regular basis, Dortmund for example dont press week in, week out watch their next game. Those teams you mentionned decided to employ a pressing strategy in particular (usual big) games for a particular objective.
Its a tactic normally employed against possesion based teams,
hence why we see it used
against us often. Heck, we even pressed, and pressed very well against Barca. We also did it very well against Dortmund in Germany last year. Try to find clips of this game on Arsenal player
The intense pressure pressing in every game from Liverpool, Southampton etc is pretty much a fantasy you just made up to prove your point, there is no reality whatsoever apart from
particular big games where teams like Pool set up to counter attack. Chelsea and Maureen are
famed for their closing down and compacting space but again only in particular games, usually
the big ones against ball playing teams (see chelsea city last weekend) You havent seen any
of that against the promoted teams they played this season Last year, excluding the big
games (where we should have probably employed a pressing strategy) we had the best defensive record in league by a
long long way. There is no need for us to employ a pressing strategy on a regular basis, we just need to adapt our game
more against certain big teams.
But we all know that already"

You've clearly not watched a lot of the teams and games you're spouting off about. We never pressed Dortmund in Germany last season. They absolutely battered us with high intensity football, but we did a smash-and-grab after they wasted a host of chances - especially Mkhitaryan. Chelsea didn't press City on Sunday.It was City actually doing the pressing and hard yards and Chelsea simply got numbers behind the ball.

And saying no team does it throughout the season is a load of garbage. You clearly rarely watched Guardiola's Barca or Bayern who perfected the art. Hell, you needn't go that far. Anyone that regularly watched Southampton last season would have seen they put A LOT of pressure on the ball.

You say we don't do it in the big games, when it's in those games when we need to operate at a higher intensity more than others. Isn't that a damning indictment of your irreproachable god, Wenger? After spouting off about how we should worship Jesus Wenger on our huuuge 6-match unbeaten start to the season, how did you see our utter embarrassment at the hands of an injury ravaged Dortmund? Always entertaining watching your positive spin on everything about us.

Oh, and at no stage did we have the best defensive record by a "long, long way" last season. And why should I ignore results in big games?
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Sigh. I'm very tired but I will attempt to answer all your typically negative 'wrist slitting outlook' points

You've clearly not watched a lot of the teams and games you're spouting off about. We never pressed Dortmund in Germany last season. They absolutely battered us with high intensity football, but we did a smash-and-grab after they wasted a host of chances - especially Mkhitaryan. Chelsea didn't press City on Sunday.It was City actually doing the pressing and hard yards and Chelsea simply got numbers behind the ball.
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Just simply untrue, go and search for clips of the dortmund game if you forgot how it went. We matched them for pressing easily. I was using the Chelsea city game last week as an example. whether city pressed as well or not has absolutely no importance on my point so I don't know why you mentioned that. You really need to watch a Maureen team in a big game with your eyes open if you think his teams don't press. Ffs he even got Ronaldo pressing at Real Madrid. Were you asleep when Maureen was giving his reasons for selling mata? Here's a tip, next game just focus on hazard and watch him when opponents have the ball.

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And saying no team does it throughout the season is a load of garbage. You clearly rarely watched Guardiola's Barca or Bayern who perfected the art.
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Myself and several others have already explained barcas high possession means they can press as they lose the ball very rarely. Obviously that applies to bayern now.
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You say we don't do it in the big games, when it's in those games when we need to operate at a higher intensity more than others. Isn't that a damning indictment of your irreproachable god, Wenger? After spouting off about how we should worship Jesus Wenger on our huuuge 6-match unbeaten start to the season, how did you see our utter embarrassment at the hands of an injury ravaged Dortmund? Always entertaining watching your positive spin on everything about us.
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Through your raving madness against all things Wenger and all things arsenal, you see my arguments against your points as being some kind of Wenger worship. You think unless i sit here foaming at the mouth calling Wenger a cant and breaking down every other day over every dropped point then I see Wenger as a god. If you actually took a step back and looked without that rage and depression that engulfs you, then you would see that myself and so called other akb are very critical of aspects of Wenger. Even in my response within this very article I have criticised not using pressing in big games ffs. Yet you are too blinded by rage and in a frenzy to see anything and see anyone who has measured views of our situation as some kind of Wenger fan boy. The measured sensible non reactionary fans here didn't melt down at every dropped point this season because they were able to see things with perspective, see that although we haven't played as well as we could we still hadnt lost. The way you speak of us is as if we are the most damaged and on danger club in the world ffs the only team who have really had a better start than us overall is probably just Chelsea. City, Liverpool United Everton spurs have a lot more to cry about. Yet it's this arsenal board that is the most depressing, you and others calling for Wengers head unlike spurs Liverpool Everton United, even city who have all had worse starts than us. It's laughable imagining them calling for brendan Rodgers or pellegrini to be sacked. Why do you have to act so dramatic and reactionary, it's embarrassing
So much more to say on that matter but I'm typing from my phone so I'll do it another time.

We had the best defensive record up until 2014, everyone knows that, but you see your hate for arsenal blinds you from facts. End of season had an equal amount of clean sheets with Chelsea and we both held the most clean sheets in the league. We conceded 41 goals. Over a THIRD of those were conceded in the three big away defeats. We could have lost those games one nil each and we would have still conceded the least in the league. You ask why would you ignore those games, I've already explained that the tactics were wrong in those specific games and we should have pressed but the point I was making was that in most of our other games our defensive work was sound and the stats back that up

Just simply untrue, go and search for clips of the dortmund game if you forgot how it went. We matched them for pressing easily.
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No, we didn't. You're talking nonsense. I DO remember how the game went and we were on the backfoot for most of it - unable to control Dortmund's intensity.

I was using the Chelsea city game last week as an example. whether city pressed as well or not has absolutely no importance on my point so I don't know why you mentioned that. You really need to watch a Maureen team in a big game with your eyes open if you think his teams don't press. Ffs he even got Ronaldo pressing at Real Madrid. Were you asleep when Maureen was giving his reasons for selling mata? Here's a tip, next game just focus on hazard and watch him when opponents have the ball.
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I never said Mourinho's teams don't do it. They didn't do it against City. Simples. You used it as an example, which was incorrect like some other examples you gave which makes me doubt whether you actually watched the games.

Myself and several others have already explained barcas high possession means they can press as they lose the ball very rarely. Obviously that applies to bayern now.
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But you DID say no team can do it throughout the season which is false. It's not just a matter of possession. It's their tactical drilling and fitness levels and aggression and desire for the ball and mastery of the defensive high line that makes them very effective pressing units. The same was perfected by Pochettino in Southampton last season and week in, week out, they were a very difficult team to play against. Don't make generalized statements if you don't mean them.

comment by Sheriff John Brown - bring back David Dein (U7482)
posted 11 hours, 17 minutes ago
No, it's because what you said was clearly untrue and wasn't based on evident facts. What games did you watch that made you claim Southampton were "withdrawing and trying to hit teams on the break"?
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This is just going to go back and forth as I fundamentally disagree with you on how Southampton changed their style at the end of the season.

It is a moot point anyway because I was talking about winning the league. Come back to me when you actually see a premiership team win the league playing the press style.

Arsenal need to press more, can we at least agree on that?

As a team we invite pressure on to our defenders far too often by letting the ball get way up our end of the pitch unchallenged. We don't need to press Barca style but the whole team has been very poor defending as a unit, particularly in big games.

As a back 5 I believe we've got an excellently drilled unit but it often doesn't get the protection it needs.