Sanch-Go

comment by House (U17162)
posted 1 second ago
comment by Roy's Keane (U11635)
posted 16 minutes ago
Sancho being a big crybaby etc. blame his parents and his coaches

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You don't believe in personal responsibility

That's the problem with kids these days

They want to blame everyone else


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'Give me a child until he is 7, and I will show you the man'
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I would say we are probably both right & wrong equally

comment by House (U17162)
posted 1 hour, 2 minutes ago
I've never understood the trope of 'Kids these days are soft', while that may be true.. who is it that is raising them?

For Gen Z its pretty much Gen X or the Gen before.

The older generations are quick to find fault with younger kids being entitled brats/sofites, but they raised them. I don't blame the kids, blame the adults.

Gen Z get blamed for everything, but they didn't raise themselves

Sancho being a big crybaby etc. blame his parents and his coaches
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Stfu snowflake

comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 21 hours ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 8 minutes ago
Players generally don’t have the mental resolve these days that they used to

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This is a widely held view, but I wonder how true it is. The game is more athletically demanding now than ever before - more matches, more miles run per match, more sprints at higher intensity - so it requires greater commitment to physical preparation to merely take part, let alone stand out from the crowd. The scrutiny, media exposure and social media visibility of players is like nothing we saw a generation ago. Ex-players who complain about the soft mentality of current ones were never tested, either physically or in terms of the noise around the game, in the way today's are. Certainly there were players we revere from that era who wouldn't make it in the professional game today if they led the same lifestyle. Think of Le Tissier's mobility and work-rate. Think of the number of players who enjoyed a few beers (compared with the many today who are teetotal for professional reasons). From a certain perspective, I think today's players are on average more professional and more dedicated than their predecessors.

One thing that has shifted, I think, is that younger people are more sceptical about hierarchy, and therefore (for better or worse) more resistant to taking orders from superiors without question.
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Valid points about media scrutiny and scepticism about hierarchies but the rest is about professionalism.

Sancho is an extreme example and perhaps my views are skewed due to our current crop of players but they don’t seem to have that warrior attitude as much anymore.

When players like Roy Keane were in their mid-teens they were cleaning boots, climbing their way up the ladder. These days at 16,17,18 they’re multimillionaires with huge egos and less character.

Professional? On the whole, sure.

But mental resolve? Nah I’ll stick with previous decades/eras
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My point isn't to argue that the younger generation do have the 'warrior attitude' but rather that as a proposition, it's impossible to test. Firstly, because we have no way of objectively assessing how the Mentally Strong Men's Men of 80s and 90s would have coped and behaved with today's professional, physical and cultural demands. But secondly, are we showing generational bias in inferring mental strength from displays of masculinity / machismo / aggression that actually has nothing to do with psychological fortitude? Players today have the benefit of sports psychology teaching them to manage their emotions, try not to be carried away by the highs or lows of sporting experience, and thereby perform at a more consistent level. Maybe they channel more of that aggression into the athleticism that's required to simply get a seat at the table now, and maybe it's not as visible to the observer because all players in the PL are at a very high physical level and cancelling each other out? And I wonder whether United fans are particularly susceptible to the 'mentally weak millennials' idea just because our team has been so bad. If we were City fans, would we think that Foden, Alvarez, Haaland, etc. are mentally weak millennials?

comment by Roy's Keane (U11635)
posted 1 hour, 45 minutes ago
Sancho being a big crybaby etc. blame his parents and his coaches

---------------

You don't believe in personal responsibility

That's the problem with kids these days

They want to blame everyone else


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I was just about to post this myself.

comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 42 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 21 hours ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 8 minutes ago
Players generally don’t have the mental resolve these days that they used to

--------------------------------------------------------------

This is a widely held view, but I wonder how true it is. The game is more athletically demanding now than ever before - more matches, more miles run per match, more sprints at higher intensity - so it requires greater commitment to physical preparation to merely take part, let alone stand out from the crowd. The scrutiny, media exposure and social media visibility of players is like nothing we saw a generation ago. Ex-players who complain about the soft mentality of current ones were never tested, either physically or in terms of the noise around the game, in the way today's are. Certainly there were players we revere from that era who wouldn't make it in the professional game today if they led the same lifestyle. Think of Le Tissier's mobility and work-rate. Think of the number of players who enjoyed a few beers (compared with the many today who are teetotal for professional reasons). From a certain perspective, I think today's players are on average more professional and more dedicated than their predecessors.

One thing that has shifted, I think, is that younger people are more sceptical about hierarchy, and therefore (for better or worse) more resistant to taking orders from superiors without question.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Valid points about media scrutiny and scepticism about hierarchies but the rest is about professionalism.

Sancho is an extreme example and perhaps my views are skewed due to our current crop of players but they don’t seem to have that warrior attitude as much anymore.

When players like Roy Keane were in their mid-teens they were cleaning boots, climbing their way up the ladder. These days at 16,17,18 they’re multimillionaires with huge egos and less character.

Professional? On the whole, sure.

But mental resolve? Nah I’ll stick with previous decades/eras
----------------------------------------------------------------------

My point isn't to argue that the younger generation do have the 'warrior attitude' but rather that as a proposition, it's impossible to test. Firstly, because we have no way of objectively assessing how the Mentally Strong Men's Men of 80s and 90s would have coped and behaved with today's professional, physical and cultural demands. But secondly, are we showing generational bias in inferring mental strength from displays of masculinity / machismo / aggression that actually has nothing to do with psychological fortitude? Players today have the benefit of sports psychology teaching them to manage their emotions, try not to be carried away by the highs or lows of sporting experience, and thereby perform at a more consistent level. Maybe they channel more of that aggression into the athleticism that's required to simply get a seat at the table now, and maybe it's not as visible to the observer because all players in the PL are at a very high physical level and cancelling each other out? And I wonder whether United fans are particularly susceptible to the 'mentally weak millennials' idea just because our team has been so bad. If we were City fans, would we think that Foden, Alvarez, Haaland, etc. are mentally weak millennials?
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Had to be a warrior back in those days as skill wasn’t as valued in England. Different now, where the average English player is technically far superior to the players back then.

Had to be a warrior back in those days as skill wasn’t as valued in England. Different now, where the average English player is technically far superior to the players back then.

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Maybe there's something to that. If you think of particularly gifted players from the past, we don't tend to associate them with 'warrior spirit'. E.g. was Hoddle a warrior? When people talk about Jimmy Greaves it's the delicacy and precision of his game that comes over - "he'd pass the ball into the net".

That’s true, though they did have England teammates that were praised for that ‘warrior spirit’ and Hoddle would get criticism from England fans for not being like Bryan Robson.

I tend to agree with your evaluation, it’s difficult to compare. However, I do think that there’s been a cultural change towards English footballers over the years, and fans, pundits and managers alike are valuing technical skill over British bulldog spirit in many cases.

Plus given that mental health is something that is more openly talked about, if we consider all this I think we can make an educated guess that there aren’t so many players that fit into this stereotype.

But it doesn’t tell us a grate deal regarding the mental fortitude of the respective generations. Previous generations did not have the same number of eyes on their every move like modern footballers do. They could get piiiiiiiissed up still go and play because they could get away with it.

Many have said, including Best, that he struggled with the fame of being the ‘first’ celebrity footballer. How would the piiiissheads of the past deal with the fame, expectation and scrutiny of the modern footballer without the alcohol?

Dazza

Building on your last paragraph, I suspect there was a portion of the players of yesteryear who projected themselves as warriors while quietly struggling with mental health and using alcohol as a crutch. Much as it's fashionable to deride the softness of youngsters, everyone knows that a lot of men have suffered (and too many of them have died) as a result of an inability to ask for help, acknowledge weakness, express feelings. And there's an obvious continuum between this harmful culture and the (not inherently unhealthy) ideal of stoical male fortitude that many of the posters on this thread are mourning the passing of.

Jadon Sancho has said he is looking forward to play with “a smile on his face” after joining Borussia Dortmund on loan from Manchester United for the remainder of the season.
“When I walked into the changing room today, it felt like coming home. I know the club inside out, I’ve always been very close to the fans here and I’ve never lost contact with the people in charge.

“I can’t wait to see my team-mates again, get out on the pitch, play football with a smile on my face, get assists, score goals and help the club qualify for the Champions League.”

RR, yeah I agree with that. I think a number of players that have struggled with addiction have said that football was an escape for them as well.