Tuchel on a hiding to nothing ?

Football has NEVER seen that

I think it should be like that. We don't have enough good managers from England right now but that's on us as country. It's our failing. Although Southgate has kind of shown you can punch above your weight when you aren't deemed to be a good manager, just as Tuchel is showing so far you can underperform when being deemed a proven winner.

At the end of the day, we're still producing top quality players for whoever manages to work with.

comment by RB&W - Our representative on the pitch (U21434)
posted 56 minutes ago
If you have to be a national to play for your country you should be a national to manage or coach them. I dont get why anybody cant see this.
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Considering many nations have been gaming the system in terms of converting the talented players for their national teams, the discussion is really longer and more complicated than "manager must be of a certain nationality".

comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 46 minutes ago
I think it should be like that. We don't have enough good managers from England right now but that's on us as country. It's our failing. Although Southgate has kind of shown you can punch above your weight when you aren't deemed to be a good manager, just as Tuchel is showing so far you can underperform when being deemed a proven winner.

At the end of the day, we're still producing top quality players for whoever manages to work with.
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The thing I really don't understand is England's fascination with appointing managers successful at club level. It just doesn't seem to bother other nations.

Current WC winning manager Scaloni - no club management experience at all (just an assistant role), it's all through the national team.

Current Euro winning manager de la Fuente - only club experience was getting canned by Alaves after a couple of months, his experience is all through the national team.

We had Carsley who has pretty much the same background as both of those and won the U21 Euros. But apparently Potter and Howe were the only options....

I don’t think it’s a fascination considering Southgate was appointed and Carsley was considered for the job. The FA have actively looked to promote coaches through an international pathway in a similar way to what they’re doing with the players as well.

I suspect if Tuchel hadn’t become available that Carlsey would have got the job.

Unless you think England have a top 3/4 in the world squad then you have to think Southgate did a great job with them.

In addition losing a friendly in June to Senegal won't define Tuchel either as England manager. I do find it strange England can't produce more managers but I'm that that hung up about managers having to be from the country they manage.

Southgate was great and his time in England was severely underrated & under appreciated.

I don’t agree with his football getting worse, in terms of setup the last tournament was definitely his worst. Yet the WC prior he had England playing at their best (and coincidentally it was the earliest we were knocked out)

Also to weigh in on the manager. I don’t think it’s essential but preferable that he is English. It’s the closest to the purest form of football and I think managers of the same nationality aids that (but isn’t essential)

comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 2 minutes ago
I don’t think it’s a fascination considering Southgate was appointed and Carsley was considered for the job. The FA have actively looked to promote coaches through an international pathway in a similar way to what they’re doing with the players as well.

I suspect if Tuchel hadn’t become available that Carlsey would have got the job.
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Sorry, I wasn't clear; I meant England in the broader sense - i.e. fans and media as well as the FA (who have certainly gone for pedigree in the past).

Southgate felt like a move towards internal development given his limited club success. A change of strategy, and it paid off to some extent given we went deep into competitions. But they've binned that off for the big name again.

Fans and media definitely do this though, the number of times the English options were stated as Howe and Potter. It's even on this thread I think.

Szoboss, okay gotcha.

I think after the failed experiment with Tuchel we’ll pivot back to what they’d put in place before.

However, it’s generally the case across football history that the national team manager is appointed from a club team.

Successes from internal promotions at youth level are an anomaly. It’s just a coincidence that Southgate, Scaloni and de la Fuente were all doing well at the same time.

comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson forever!If he is good enough he is ready! (U12026)
posted 3 hours, 54 minutes ago
comment by RB&W - Our representative on the pitch (U21434)
posted 56 minutes ago
If you have to be a national to play for your country you should be a national to manage or coach them. I dont get why anybody cant see this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Considering many nations have been gaming the system in terms of converting the talented players for their national teams, the discussion is really longer and more complicated than "manager must be of a certain nationality".
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well.it should be. And its not complicated. As it is for players