Ha, one star voter, but no balls to initiate the campaign which I mention
Vote now changed to 5. Anything to say?
Comment deleted by Article Creator
Your absolutely deluded if you think us nationalists should try and convince each other to support NI. You dont get it at all. Its the IFA and the NI fans who sould be doing something to convince us.
At the end of the day, I am Irish so I support Ireland. Even if Englands bia_tch(NI) were qualifying for major championships and better ranked than Ireland, I still wouldnt support them. Thats the way I and alot of people see it.
Your absolutely deluded if you think us nationalists should try and convince each other to support NI.
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I know several who do. Anyway, where's the harm in canvassing opinion in nationalist circles El Godfather? Of course to discuss issues around the NI side, one would presumably have to acknowledge the existence of NI? Is this the first hurdle for you guys? Or is it more based on fear - fear of "breaking rank", fear of being outted as not a proper nationalist. Would any of you want to be seen on UTV news marching to IFA HQ, dossier in hand - or would that seal your own death sentence at the hands of your hardliners?
You dont get it at all. Its the IFA and the NI fans who sould be doing something to convince us.
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You're right, I don't get it. We always hear nationalist voices echoing their dissatisfaction over how NI is represented. But we never hear any substance. If you want change, we have to have examples AND what the outcome would be, from a nationalist viewpoint, if such changes were implemented.
Otherwise it just sounds like foundationless political whingeing.
What changes would it personnally take for you to support NI El Godfather?
Your wrong I do reconise NI and the fact its apart of the UK. But that doesnt mean I agree with it. I think its absolutely wrong but thats for another day.
Me personally I would never support NI properly as my first team because most of my family are from the free state anyway so I would always support ROI. But im sure many other nationalists would consider supporting them a there first team, myself included as a second team if they get a neutral anthem, use the NI flag and Ulster flag like Ulster Rugby do, no place for the union jack as its a NI game not a UK game, no sectarian chanting can be tolerated, No british/unionist symbols etc That isnt too much to ask really. Maybe even move from Windsor Park which has always been a cold house for nationalists. That would definetly see more people supporting NI. But if the IFA continue to do what they are doing then thats fine, its there loss. They are only damaging themeselves. This is my opinion anyway.
Comment deleted by Article Creator
I was going to pick you up on one or two things there (such as your allegations of sectarian chanting), but I'll stick to just one for now:
" I would always support ROI......But im sure many other nationalists would consider supporting them.... "
Do you mind if I ask what you are basing this opinion on? Is potentially supporting NI discussed down the pub or in the playgrounds of nationalist schools for example? It's fair to say that you must have some reason for having this view.
Just my opinion that the non hardcore nationalists would consider supporting NI if it was right.
Then they need to educate the IFA on what will (or could) make it right.
....if they're serious, that is..............................
They dont need to educate anybody, the IFA know exactly whats wrong. Fans and players shouldnt have to go to the IFA and tell them to stop turning Windsor Park into a shrine for the Queen. Its a game of Football ffs. Can you imagine Scotland or Wales doing what NI do? Cringe.
Hello? You're missing the point with your assumptions about what the IFA do or don't know. The IFA and indeed NI fans want to be educated as to what nationalists DO want to see and hear in order to encourage them to buy block-tickets and attend games. This is being proactive. What we DON'T need to hear time and again is what fans from nationalist areas don't want to see/hear.
Unless of course they have nothing. No ideas. Zip. Nada. Nothing to offer and simply want to have a whinge on a political scale and ultimately have no desire to support or play for NI because they have been programmed that way. Because that is what it looks like.
Is any Joe Bloggs nationalist even interested in starting a campaign using the schools, youth groups, politicans, the media?? How better could NI be represented at International Football that would make me go to matches? I think we both know the answer to that Godfather.
"shrine to the Queen"
That is seriously funny
When was your last NI game Godfather?!, psml !
Like I said, New anthem, Use the Ulster flag with the NI flag so both communities are represented, ban bigots with union jacks and those who chant sectarian songs including the no surrender, and a new stadium away from the backward loyalist village. They showed how welcome Catholics are there when the Hills Have Eyes residents tried to kill a young lad last year. Theres a start. All these should be easily done. Those blocking it will have a unionist agenda.
Never been at a NI game in my life and ive never ever watched a full NI game on TV. Usually get bored and switch away when I see Healy eyesbrows and Steve Davis big chin mumbling along to Englands anthem. The whole team look embarresed and only about a quarter of them actually pretend to sing along to that, most of them English and im cringing for them so thats as far as I get before the channel gets switched.
Can I say, all banter aside, thank you for posting your thoughts. It's this sort of thing that can help folk from both sides gain a better understanding.
"Like I said, New anthem"
Such as....
Come on, give us ideas, something to work on. A lyric or two. Anything!!!!.
"Use the Ulster flag with the NI flag so both communities are represented"
No objections, although those from the 3 counties within ROI may object (!) seriously, you never know......
"ban bigots with union jacks"
Not - ban bigots fullstop?
Or do you think anyone with a Union (Flag) is a bigot?
"those who chant sectarian songs including the no surrender"
Agree re "no surrender" simply because it's not part of the anthem. Some claim it's "no surrender to the opposition" but I suppose that doesn't wash with you.
Who is singing sectarian songs and what are they singing? I only ask, because I want to know where you are getting this idea that sectarian songs still go on.
What/who are Hills Have Eyes residents? I ask out of sincerity, as I've no idea what this means.
Agree re Healys eyebrows and Davis's chin. Unsightly.
Some do look embarrassed. Can you draw ANY comparisons with NI born rugby players picked for the "Ireland" rugby side when TSS is played?
Well Derry Air might do, or get a NI musician such as Gary Lightbody to write a new anthem for the team. The Irish Rugby team do it, and the unionist lads from the north have no problem singing Irelands call.
Yes I mean ban bigots full stop.
Instead of using the NI or Ulster flag, use a NI football team flag like the Irish Rugby team do. Ive seen NI fans use one and it would seem to do the job.
And the No Surrender wouldnt wash with me because its like ROI fans shouting Tiochfaidh ar la during our anthem, then saying it means our day will come when we win the world cup lol. Technically there is nothing wrong with it, but it would turn alot of people off.
The sectarian songs being sung such as Billy boys , up to knees etc and songs about Bobby Sands even though he has nothing to do with NI footie. NI fans in Dublin were recorded singing them. I know its a minority but it usually is anyway and needs to be stamped out once and for all.
Hills Have Eyes the movie? never seen it? google it. I was comparing those folk with the village residents who tried to kill an innocent boy because of his catholic religion last year in the area.
I dont think you can compare the NI boys standing for TSS in rugby with nationalists standing for GSTQ. I mean what did the ROI ever do to the innocent people of NI? nothing that I can think of that would make them not want to play Rugby for ireland. On the other hand the Queen handed out medals to her soldiers who killed 14 innocent people in Derry and elsewhere in NI, so you can understand why its hard to stomach for McClean and Duffy to stand for GSTQ. How the other nationalist players do it, I dont know but it takes some guts.
Well Derry Air might do, or get a NI musician such as Gary Lightbody to write a new anthem for the team. The Irish Rugby team do it, and the unionist lads from the north have no problem singing Irelands call.
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Derry Air won't be appropriate because some people call it Londonderry Air. Not a good start if you want one all-encompassing anthem which doesnt offend anyone. Something like "Northern Ireland's Call". You make an interesting point about the unionist lads and the rugby which i'll touch on below.
Instead of using the NI or Ulster flag, use a NI football team flag like the Irish Rugby team do. Ive seen NI fans use one and it would seem to do the job.
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So now the NI flag isn't appropriate? You didn't seem to mind before. Scotland, England, Wales and ROI fans all wave aloft their national flags. We wave the NI flag. You hardly see any Union Flags at Windsor Park these days, certainly not being waved.
And the No Surrender wouldnt wash with me because its like ROI fans shouting Tiochfaidh ar la during our anthem, then saying it means our day will come when we win the world cup lol. Technically there is nothing wrong with it, but it would turn alot of people off.
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I think the Football For All initiative has tried to tackle this very issue, with varied success. You can't legislate for some eejits tho, particularly those who still think they're yelling it to the opposition fans. For those who yell No Surrender to make a political statement, ditto, technically there is nothing wrong with it, but it would turn alot of people off.
The sectarian songs being sung such as Billy boys , up to knees etc and songs about Bobby Sands even though he has nothing to do with NI footie. NI fans in Dublin were recorded singing them. I know its a minority but it usually is anyway and needs to be stamped out once and for all.
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To be honest, there is little point in continuing our debate if you rigidly believe that these songs are being sung by Northern Ireland fans at Windsor Park. I've seen the footage of some conts singing offensive songs in Dublin last May. But for every one of those videos, there a hundred more where fans are laughing, singing, having banter without any sectarian accompanyments.
Hills Have Eyes the movie? never seen it? google it. I was comparing those folk with the village residents who tried to kill an innocent boy because of his catholic religion last year in the area.
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Oh yes, I've seen that. Very disturbing film. I can't comment on that incident as I wasn't aware of it. Begs the question, how did those thugs know he was a Catholic?? I think there's more to that story than you're letting on.
I dont think you can compare the NI boys standing for TSS in rugby with nationalists standing for GSTQ.
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Why not? The situations are identical are they not? Nationalists having to listen to GSTQ = Unionists having to listen to TSS.....Nationalists seeing NI flags = Unionists see the Irish Republic's tricolour
I mean what did the ROI ever do to the innocent people of NI?
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Ahem. What did NI ever do to the people of ROI?
On the other hand the Queen handed out medals to her soldiers who killed 14 innocent people in Derry and elsewhere in NI, so you can understand why its hard to stomach for McClean and Duffy to stand for GSTQ. How the other nationalist players do it, I dont know but it takes some guts.
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Did the Queen not apologise or pay her respects at a memorial in Dublin this year? Didn't the Prime Minister apologise for Bloody SUnday not so long ago. Maybe you believe their apologies are hollow. Are they every bit as hollow as IR A apologies over the years?
My point being the Irish rugby team dont use the tri colour as there flag, they use the irish rugby flag. NI should do the same.
And yes ive heard Billy boys being sung at the 5-0 thrashing in Dublin, and they are obsessed with Bobby Sands. Its not healthy. It may be minorities but can be clearly heard on the TV never mind in the stadium.
As for the young actor attacked in the village, it was on the news. The guy clearly said those attacking him said 'Hes a kafflick lets kill him' They had him in a wheelie bin in a graden and some old horrible hag of a women told them to get him out of her garden instead of ringning the police. That alone tells you that Windsor Park isnt safe for 'Kafflicks'
Ahem. What did NI ever do to the people of ROI?
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Apart from the vast majority of the Protestant population hating on the ROI for no reason, Nothing. but my point being that why do unionists get offended at TSS? you can see why nationalists are offended at GSTQ, as her forces killed innocent nationalists, but what did the ROI do that makes TSS so offensive?
Apologies dont mean anything to most people who lost loved ones on both sides. Its just a cover by politicians to try and pain this picture of NI as one big forgiving happy family.
My point being the Irish rugby team dont use the tri colour as there flag, they use the irish rugby flag. NI should do the same.
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All well and good, but how do you go about seizing tricolours off thousands of (Southern) Irish folk as they try to enter the Aviva. Good luck. Did you not know about the stink that was kicked up by having TSS removed completely prior to kick-off for away rugby ties?! You do know that the IRFU allows the tricolour to fly from the Aviva Stadium on match day?
Another solution would for NI to adopt the same policy as the rugby, but in reverse. Play GSTQ and also an anthem like "Northern Ireland's Call" to appease the nationalists. Fair's fair?
And yes ive heard Billy boys being sung at the 5-0 thrashing in Dublin, and they are obsessed with Bobby Sands. Its not healthy. It may be minorities but can be clearly heard on the TV never mind in the stadium.
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Go on to the OWC website and you'll read reports of sectarian chanting aimed at NI fans during the same match. What can you do? It's a bit sad, but just how upsetting is it really? Being called an Orange this or a feenyon that. Could people maybe grow up and rank it alongside being called ginger or specky?! I don't know.
Do you still maintain that Bobby, Knees etc are still being sung by Northern Ireland fans at Windsor Park? I totally challenge that, but if that is the mindset amongst nationalists (and that's your choice of course), then the IFA is pi ssing in the wind at hoping to attract such people to Windsor Park
As for the young actor attacked in the village, it was on the news. The guy clearly said those attacking him said 'Hes a kafflick lets kill him' They had him in a wheelie bin in a graden and some old horrible hag of a women told them to get him out of her garden instead of ringning the police. That alone tells you that Windsor Park isnt safe for 'Kafflicks'
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These people must have an amazing gift for sniffing out catholics! Desperate story all the same. Don't think I've ever noticed a village resident on the short trek to and from the ground though. Do they stand about armed with knives etc, noses primed?
Ahem. What did NI ever do to the people of ROI? ---------Apart from the vast majority of the Protestant population hating on the ROI for no reason, Nothing.
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Haha, do you have sources for this claim?! Is this what you think?! Gordon Bennett. Could I equally claim the most of the ROI hate NI Unionists. It even manufacturered an illegal army who in the 70s, 80s & 90s, no matter their intent, killed more men, women & children of all religions and none than all the other organisations and the British Army put together - all in the name of uniting Ireland, ironically.
but my point being that why do unionists get offended at TSS? you can see why nationalists are offended at GSTQ, as her forces killed innocent nationalists, but what did the ROI do that makes TSS so offensive?
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TSS has been hijacked by Irish Republican rebels and is played at the funerals of same terrorists, no links I'm afraid, but they exist on YouTube. It is also the anthem of what is essentially a foreign nation to many people from NI, a nation they have little or no afinity for (see Life & Times Surveys), but hate?! LOL. Personally, I see ROI more like a rival nation, like the Scots & the English, or the Argies and the Brazilians. TSS does not represent me in any way shape or form and only Ireland's Call should be played at both home and away Irish rugby fixtures. Either TSS & GSTQ are both played or ONLY Ireland's Call. That's the way it should be.
I'm a bit disappointed more nationalists haven't contributed to this thread actually. Had hoped to hear a few say : you know what, I'm going to call your bluff fokbaik and make enquiries about what it would take for young nationalists to support NI and buy up tickets.
The sad thing is that for all the bluster about what shouldn't be on display etc, there's not one iota out there for what should be. Makes this Northern Ireland fan deeply suspicious of the motives for nationalists making such complaints.
Of course people will bring there own flags, and there is nothing wrong with someone bringing a NI glag to a NI game, but no UJ. but im talking about the official flag. It should be the NI footie flag. Thats whaat needs to be done when its divided population.
I dont know fully whats sung at Windsor, but I do know they sing Billy boys as I heard it one of the rares times I watched NI. And as I said it wont be doing nationalists any favours by singing about Bobby, whether its in the Avia in Dublin or at Windsor.
The vast majority ROI residents dont hate unionists. Dont be silly. On the other hand the vast majority of unionists hate the Irish north and south. Also the ROI didnt manufacture any republican group. The Provos and other groups were all Northern based as were the majority of its members.
Just because republicans used the tri colour and TSS doesnt mean the flag and anthem has to be asociated with the IR_A. in that case is the UJ associated with loyalists who murdered innocents? Is the England flag associated with all those innocent people killed in NI, Iraq, Afghan and elsewhere? Is GSTQ associated with drug dealing murderers from the UDA? Not for me it isnt. We need to move away from this narrow warped attitude.
Of course people will bring there own flags, and there is nothing wrong with someone bringing a NI glag to a NI game, but no UJ. but im talking about the official flag. It should be the NI footie flag. Thats whaat needs to be done when its divided population.
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So on the one hand, its ok for Irish fans of the rugby to bring tricolours...but it's NOT ok for NI fans to bring Union Flags (NI's official flag by the way) to Northern Ireland football matches. Is that what you're saying? Have I read that wrong?
I dont know fully whats sung at Windsor, but I do know they sing Billy boys as I heard it one of the rares times I watched NI. And as I said it wont be doing nationalists any favours by singing about Bobby, whether its in the Avia in Dublin or at Windsor.
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Then why even comment on something you admit you're not fully informed about. Some kno bs singing about Bobby on the Dublin Dart do not represent NI fans, the same way ROI fans singing about the I RA or Orange Bassa's do not presumably represent all ROI fans. Seems to be like these kn obs will forever represent a stick for nationalists to beat NI fans with - or an excuse as to why they won't support NI.
The vast majority ROI residents dont hate unionists. Dont be silly. On the other hand the vast majority of unionists hate the Irish north and south. Also the ROI didnt manufacture any republican group. The Provos and other groups were all Northern based as were the majority of its members.
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"on the other hand the vast majority of Unionists hate Irish North & SOuth". Without sounding patronising, what age are you?
Why would Unionists hate the "Irish"? Apart from their illegal terror organisations of course.
If I was as ill-informed as that, one could argue that all non-Unionists (note, I don't use "Irish" hate Unionists because they represent the reason why "Ireland" is not "United" and why there is a big fat border. Stands to reason though doesn't it? In fact, seems more plausible that nationalists/republicans hate Unionists for this very reason, than the other way around.
NB - I'm Irish. I come from Northern Ireland. I am a British passport holder. Please do not assume that one cannot be both Irish & British. Same way one can be Scottish & British, English & British etc etc.
Just because republicans used the tri colour and TSS doesnt mean the flag and anthem has to be asociated with the IR_A.
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Or one could say, just because the NI anthem is GSTQ and the (official) flag is the Union Flag, doens't mean they have to be associated with the British Armed Forces.
You can't have your cake and eat it Godfather.
We need to move away from this narrow warped attitude.
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I'll give you example of people with narrow warped attitudes:
People who think Unionists hate "the Irish" North & SOuth
People who firmly believe NI fans still sing Billy, etc at Windsor Park in their droves
People who can't see the harm in one flag/anthem, but only see the harm in others.
This is all a bit off topic, but let me ask you one thing. Do you personally know anyone who would physically go out and support NI (at the expense of whatever other nation they might support - in this case, probably ROI) - if the IFA changed the anthem/flag/match venue etc?
Yeah I dont agree with NI fans bringing UJ to a NI match. Its not a UK game, so bring a NI flag which is the official flag not the UJ Anyone who brings a UJ to a NI match are doing it for purely political reasons. Or they are desperately trying to show they world how British they are which is quite sad.
Ive never ever heard ROI fans sing about the RA or OO and ive been to plenty of games since I was a kid. So that theory is straight out the windy. On the other hand its not uncommon to hear NI fans singing about loyalists every now and then. Just think back to the 5-0 thrashing or the Youtube video in Dublin.
Also, the RA werent the souths 'illegal organisation'. Thats a bit like saying the UDA was Britians organisation. Very misleading. So that cant be a reason for unionists hating on the southerners. Thats a bit like me hating on the English for shankill butchers even though they were a bunch of 'Ulstermen '. Explain to me why a southern registered car cant park in loyalist areas but northern registered cars can park anywhere in the south without fear of there car being burnt out? Why do so many tri colours be burnt on the bonfires before the 12th? Theres no call for any of that.
I never said you cant be Irish and British. I respect that. I just wish more unionists would respect our right to be Irish instead of calling us British when we clearly arent. Imagine if the English started saying unionists werent really british. Imagine the outroar from wee Peter and Jimmy Alistar. Yet for some reason they are allowed to say we arent Irish. These Unionist folk are unbelieveable at times wuldnt you day.
But the UJ and GSTQ were the official anthem and flag for the brits who murdered children over here. So it will always be associated with them no matter what. The Irish free state forces never once attacked NI, so to label there flag and anthem with the RA is plain stupid. Is the American flag associated with the KKK? just because they used the flag for there own purpose doesnt mean that all white americans are racist.
I dont know anyone who has or would support NI, as I came from a nationalist town, but im sure there are catholics in 'normal areas' who dont have much political thoughts and would consider it if the right conditions were in place.
Yeah I dont agree with NI fans bringing UJ to a NI match. Its not a UK game.
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So presumably you also agree rugby fans shouldn't bring the tricolour to the Aviva or away games, since it's not a Republic of Ireland game??
bring a NI flag which is the official flag....not the UJ
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Wrong.
Although the NI flag is adopted by the likes of UEFA, FIFA, and other sporting bodies.
Anyone who brings a UJ to a NI match are doing it for purely political reasons.
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So presumably you also agree anyone who brings a tricolour to an "Ireland" rugby match are doing it for purely poilitical reasons? You can't have it both ways, Godfather, that is the important bit.
Or they are desperately trying to show they world how British they are which is quite sad.
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Or they are desperately trying to show the world the side is Irish (nationalist/republican), which is quite sad.
Ive never ever heard ROI fans sing about the RA or OO and ive been to plenty of games since I was a kid. So that theory is straight out the windy.
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Ah, I see. So if you haven't heard it, then it doesn't happen. Why didn't I think of that?
On the other hand its not uncommon to hear NI fans singing about loyalists every now and then.
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See the report on OWC website about sectarian chanting aimed at NI fans during the same match. It's swings and roundabouts.
I never said you cant be Irish and British. I respect that. I just wish more unionists would respect our right to be Irish instead of calling us British when we clearly arent.
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Who's calling you British?!?! You can be as "Irish" as you want to be.
Imagine if the English started saying unionists werent really british. Imagine the outroar from wee Peter and Jimmy Alistar. Yet for some reason they are allowed to say we arent Irish. These Unionist folk are unbelieveable at times wuldnt you day.
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Wee Peter and Jimmy Alisatir say you're not Irish??
But the UJ and GSTQ were the official anthem and flag for the brits who murdered children over here. So it will always be associated with them no matter what. The Irish free state forces never once attacked NI, so to label there flag and anthem with the RA is plain stupid.
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If it will always be associated with "the Brits", then you can accept that the SOldier's Song and tricolour will forever be associated with Irish Republicanism, which manifested itself into several illegal terror organisations, who murdered more men, women and children and ALL relgions and none, than the Brits ever did.
I dont know anyone who has or would support NI, as I came from a nationalist town, but im sure there are catholics in 'normal areas' who dont have much political thoughts and would consider it if the right conditions were in place.
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Being "sure" doesn't really cut it mate. Sorry. If these fence-sitting Catholics existed, we would have heard from them by now in the media or suchlike, about how they want NI to be represented and how that will have them flocking to see them play. It ain't happening. You don't hear a peep. Why do you think that is?
Im not bothered if Rugby fans bring tri colours to the game, Ulster based fans bring the Ulster flag(both) to the games too you know and it doesnt bother me or anyone else.
The NI flag, otherwise known as the English wannabe flag is the official NI flag. To say the UJ is the official flag is just stupid. Imagine some wee billy from the East Belfast trying to tell the English that there UJ jack flag i actually 'Norn Irons'
Not really no, since Ireland are playing its acceptable to bring an ROI flag or Ulster/NI flag.However its not acceptable to bring a UJ to a NI game, as Britian arent playing so the person bringing the flag is bringing it purely for political reasons. 'Were pure British so we are'
The side is actually Irish, so binging an Ireland flag to the game isnt desperate or attention seeking. Unlike the Unionist folk who like to cover there streets in UJ, British bunting, painting there lamposts and kerbs red white and blue, singing GSTQ all in a desperate attempt to be seen as british by the rest of the world(but mainly for the rest of the UK who just see them as Irish lol). Or maybe its all in the name of culture eh? as those folks at the OO are always telling us.
Show me one report of ROI fans singing about the RA and I will apologise and admit you were right all along...........
Nah the murdering brits were the official army of the Queen, so GSTQ will always be associated with them. The RA werent official anything, so to associate them with the tri colour is idiotic and sad. Especially considering what the flag represents. Peace between our two communities. But obviously loyalists dont what that as they love to burn tri colours on the 11th night dont they? Do you associate the KKK with the USA flag? you must do.
And you cant be taken seriously if you think the RA killed more innocent people than the British. How the hell do you think the British built there empire.
Hey, if no catholics want to support NI thats fine by me. All the better as the IFA and there fans deserve everything they get. But if they ever hope to regain the support of the other half the country they need to start somewhere. And im just showing you the foundations.Over and out.
Your ignorance know no bounds. I've pulled apart your each and every post on this thread.
It's a pity, but I feel like I've wasted my time educating you. Your stupidity & bigotry is a genetic thing, passed down from one thick bigotted cont to another. It's your future offspring I feel for, because sure as nignt follows day, theyll be told, unionists = evil.
Sure keep believing - your day will come
It's what got your predecessors through the day
Eh? look back on all the posts again without the orange tinted glasses and you will see ive wiped the floor with you each and every time and now your calling it quits as im absolutely spot on. Like i said, The IFA and there fans deserve everything they get. And its only going to get worse and worse. Indeed. All for now folks more on the Godfather De Mango show tommorrow. Till next time, over and out
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Anthems / flags for NI
Page 1 of 2
posted on 14/4/12
Ha, one star voter, but no balls to initiate the campaign which I mention
posted on 14/4/12
Vote now changed to 5. Anything to say?
posted on 14/4/12
Comment deleted by Article Creator
posted on 15/4/12
Your absolutely deluded if you think us nationalists should try and convince each other to support NI. You dont get it at all. Its the IFA and the NI fans who sould be doing something to convince us.
At the end of the day, I am Irish so I support Ireland. Even if Englands bia_tch(NI) were qualifying for major championships and better ranked than Ireland, I still wouldnt support them. Thats the way I and alot of people see it.
posted on 15/4/12
Your absolutely deluded if you think us nationalists should try and convince each other to support NI.
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I know several who do. Anyway, where's the harm in canvassing opinion in nationalist circles El Godfather? Of course to discuss issues around the NI side, one would presumably have to acknowledge the existence of NI? Is this the first hurdle for you guys? Or is it more based on fear - fear of "breaking rank", fear of being outted as not a proper nationalist. Would any of you want to be seen on UTV news marching to IFA HQ, dossier in hand - or would that seal your own death sentence at the hands of your hardliners?
You dont get it at all. Its the IFA and the NI fans who sould be doing something to convince us.
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You're right, I don't get it. We always hear nationalist voices echoing their dissatisfaction over how NI is represented. But we never hear any substance. If you want change, we have to have examples AND what the outcome would be, from a nationalist viewpoint, if such changes were implemented.
Otherwise it just sounds like foundationless political whingeing.
What changes would it personnally take for you to support NI El Godfather?
posted on 16/4/12
Your wrong I do reconise NI and the fact its apart of the UK. But that doesnt mean I agree with it. I think its absolutely wrong but thats for another day.
Me personally I would never support NI properly as my first team because most of my family are from the free state anyway so I would always support ROI. But im sure many other nationalists would consider supporting them a there first team, myself included as a second team if they get a neutral anthem, use the NI flag and Ulster flag like Ulster Rugby do, no place for the union jack as its a NI game not a UK game, no sectarian chanting can be tolerated, No british/unionist symbols etc That isnt too much to ask really. Maybe even move from Windsor Park which has always been a cold house for nationalists. That would definetly see more people supporting NI. But if the IFA continue to do what they are doing then thats fine, its there loss. They are only damaging themeselves. This is my opinion anyway.
posted on 16/4/12
Comment deleted by Article Creator
posted on 16/4/12
I was going to pick you up on one or two things there (such as your allegations of sectarian chanting), but I'll stick to just one for now:
" I would always support ROI......But im sure many other nationalists would consider supporting them.... "
Do you mind if I ask what you are basing this opinion on? Is potentially supporting NI discussed down the pub or in the playgrounds of nationalist schools for example? It's fair to say that you must have some reason for having this view.
posted on 16/4/12
Just my opinion that the non hardcore nationalists would consider supporting NI if it was right.
posted on 16/4/12
Then they need to educate the IFA on what will (or could) make it right.
....if they're serious, that is..............................
posted on 17/4/12
They dont need to educate anybody, the IFA know exactly whats wrong. Fans and players shouldnt have to go to the IFA and tell them to stop turning Windsor Park into a shrine for the Queen. Its a game of Football ffs. Can you imagine Scotland or Wales doing what NI do? Cringe.
posted on 17/4/12
Hello? You're missing the point with your assumptions about what the IFA do or don't know. The IFA and indeed NI fans want to be educated as to what nationalists DO want to see and hear in order to encourage them to buy block-tickets and attend games. This is being proactive. What we DON'T need to hear time and again is what fans from nationalist areas don't want to see/hear.
Unless of course they have nothing. No ideas. Zip. Nada. Nothing to offer and simply want to have a whinge on a political scale and ultimately have no desire to support or play for NI because they have been programmed that way. Because that is what it looks like.
Is any Joe Bloggs nationalist even interested in starting a campaign using the schools, youth groups, politicans, the media?? How better could NI be represented at International Football that would make me go to matches? I think we both know the answer to that Godfather.
"shrine to the Queen"
That is seriously funny
When was your last NI game Godfather?!, psml !
posted on 17/4/12
Like I said, New anthem, Use the Ulster flag with the NI flag so both communities are represented, ban bigots with union jacks and those who chant sectarian songs including the no surrender, and a new stadium away from the backward loyalist village. They showed how welcome Catholics are there when the Hills Have Eyes residents tried to kill a young lad last year. Theres a start. All these should be easily done. Those blocking it will have a unionist agenda.
Never been at a NI game in my life and ive never ever watched a full NI game on TV. Usually get bored and switch away when I see Healy eyesbrows and Steve Davis big chin mumbling along to Englands anthem. The whole team look embarresed and only about a quarter of them actually pretend to sing along to that, most of them English and im cringing for them so thats as far as I get before the channel gets switched.
posted on 17/4/12
Can I say, all banter aside, thank you for posting your thoughts. It's this sort of thing that can help folk from both sides gain a better understanding.
"Like I said, New anthem"
Such as....
Come on, give us ideas, something to work on. A lyric or two. Anything!!!!.
"Use the Ulster flag with the NI flag so both communities are represented"
No objections, although those from the 3 counties within ROI may object (!) seriously, you never know......
"ban bigots with union jacks"
Not - ban bigots fullstop?
Or do you think anyone with a Union (Flag) is a bigot?
"those who chant sectarian songs including the no surrender"
Agree re "no surrender" simply because it's not part of the anthem. Some claim it's "no surrender to the opposition" but I suppose that doesn't wash with you.
Who is singing sectarian songs and what are they singing? I only ask, because I want to know where you are getting this idea that sectarian songs still go on.
What/who are Hills Have Eyes residents? I ask out of sincerity, as I've no idea what this means.
Agree re Healys eyebrows and Davis's chin. Unsightly.
Some do look embarrassed. Can you draw ANY comparisons with NI born rugby players picked for the "Ireland" rugby side when TSS is played?
posted on 17/4/12
Well Derry Air might do, or get a NI musician such as Gary Lightbody to write a new anthem for the team. The Irish Rugby team do it, and the unionist lads from the north have no problem singing Irelands call.
Yes I mean ban bigots full stop.
Instead of using the NI or Ulster flag, use a NI football team flag like the Irish Rugby team do. Ive seen NI fans use one and it would seem to do the job.
And the No Surrender wouldnt wash with me because its like ROI fans shouting Tiochfaidh ar la during our anthem, then saying it means our day will come when we win the world cup lol. Technically there is nothing wrong with it, but it would turn alot of people off.
The sectarian songs being sung such as Billy boys , up to knees etc and songs about Bobby Sands even though he has nothing to do with NI footie. NI fans in Dublin were recorded singing them. I know its a minority but it usually is anyway and needs to be stamped out once and for all.
Hills Have Eyes the movie? never seen it? google it. I was comparing those folk with the village residents who tried to kill an innocent boy because of his catholic religion last year in the area.
I dont think you can compare the NI boys standing for TSS in rugby with nationalists standing for GSTQ. I mean what did the ROI ever do to the innocent people of NI? nothing that I can think of that would make them not want to play Rugby for ireland. On the other hand the Queen handed out medals to her soldiers who killed 14 innocent people in Derry and elsewhere in NI, so you can understand why its hard to stomach for McClean and Duffy to stand for GSTQ. How the other nationalist players do it, I dont know but it takes some guts.
posted on 18/4/12
Well Derry Air might do, or get a NI musician such as Gary Lightbody to write a new anthem for the team. The Irish Rugby team do it, and the unionist lads from the north have no problem singing Irelands call.
- - - - -
Derry Air won't be appropriate because some people call it Londonderry Air. Not a good start if you want one all-encompassing anthem which doesnt offend anyone. Something like "Northern Ireland's Call". You make an interesting point about the unionist lads and the rugby which i'll touch on below.
Instead of using the NI or Ulster flag, use a NI football team flag like the Irish Rugby team do. Ive seen NI fans use one and it would seem to do the job.
- - - - - -
So now the NI flag isn't appropriate? You didn't seem to mind before. Scotland, England, Wales and ROI fans all wave aloft their national flags. We wave the NI flag. You hardly see any Union Flags at Windsor Park these days, certainly not being waved.
And the No Surrender wouldnt wash with me because its like ROI fans shouting Tiochfaidh ar la during our anthem, then saying it means our day will come when we win the world cup lol. Technically there is nothing wrong with it, but it would turn alot of people off.
- - - - -
I think the Football For All initiative has tried to tackle this very issue, with varied success. You can't legislate for some eejits tho, particularly those who still think they're yelling it to the opposition fans. For those who yell No Surrender to make a political statement, ditto, technically there is nothing wrong with it, but it would turn alot of people off.
The sectarian songs being sung such as Billy boys , up to knees etc and songs about Bobby Sands even though he has nothing to do with NI footie. NI fans in Dublin were recorded singing them. I know its a minority but it usually is anyway and needs to be stamped out once and for all.
- - - - -
To be honest, there is little point in continuing our debate if you rigidly believe that these songs are being sung by Northern Ireland fans at Windsor Park. I've seen the footage of some conts singing offensive songs in Dublin last May. But for every one of those videos, there a hundred more where fans are laughing, singing, having banter without any sectarian accompanyments.
Hills Have Eyes the movie? never seen it? google it. I was comparing those folk with the village residents who tried to kill an innocent boy because of his catholic religion last year in the area.
- - - - -
Oh yes, I've seen that. Very disturbing film. I can't comment on that incident as I wasn't aware of it. Begs the question, how did those thugs know he was a Catholic?? I think there's more to that story than you're letting on.
I dont think you can compare the NI boys standing for TSS in rugby with nationalists standing for GSTQ.
- - - -
Why not? The situations are identical are they not? Nationalists having to listen to GSTQ = Unionists having to listen to TSS.....Nationalists seeing NI flags = Unionists see the Irish Republic's tricolour
I mean what did the ROI ever do to the innocent people of NI?
- - - - -
Ahem. What did NI ever do to the people of ROI?
On the other hand the Queen handed out medals to her soldiers who killed 14 innocent people in Derry and elsewhere in NI, so you can understand why its hard to stomach for McClean and Duffy to stand for GSTQ. How the other nationalist players do it, I dont know but it takes some guts.
- - - -
Did the Queen not apologise or pay her respects at a memorial in Dublin this year? Didn't the Prime Minister apologise for Bloody SUnday not so long ago. Maybe you believe their apologies are hollow. Are they every bit as hollow as IR A apologies over the years?
posted on 18/4/12
My point being the Irish rugby team dont use the tri colour as there flag, they use the irish rugby flag. NI should do the same.
And yes ive heard Billy boys being sung at the 5-0 thrashing in Dublin, and they are obsessed with Bobby Sands. Its not healthy. It may be minorities but can be clearly heard on the TV never mind in the stadium.
As for the young actor attacked in the village, it was on the news. The guy clearly said those attacking him said 'Hes a kafflick lets kill him' They had him in a wheelie bin in a graden and some old horrible hag of a women told them to get him out of her garden instead of ringning the police. That alone tells you that Windsor Park isnt safe for 'Kafflicks'
Ahem. What did NI ever do to the people of ROI?
----------------------------------------
Apart from the vast majority of the Protestant population hating on the ROI for no reason, Nothing. but my point being that why do unionists get offended at TSS? you can see why nationalists are offended at GSTQ, as her forces killed innocent nationalists, but what did the ROI do that makes TSS so offensive?
Apologies dont mean anything to most people who lost loved ones on both sides. Its just a cover by politicians to try and pain this picture of NI as one big forgiving happy family.
posted on 18/4/12
My point being the Irish rugby team dont use the tri colour as there flag, they use the irish rugby flag. NI should do the same.
- - - - - -
All well and good, but how do you go about seizing tricolours off thousands of (Southern) Irish folk as they try to enter the Aviva. Good luck. Did you not know about the stink that was kicked up by having TSS removed completely prior to kick-off for away rugby ties?! You do know that the IRFU allows the tricolour to fly from the Aviva Stadium on match day?
Another solution would for NI to adopt the same policy as the rugby, but in reverse. Play GSTQ and also an anthem like "Northern Ireland's Call" to appease the nationalists. Fair's fair?
And yes ive heard Billy boys being sung at the 5-0 thrashing in Dublin, and they are obsessed with Bobby Sands. Its not healthy. It may be minorities but can be clearly heard on the TV never mind in the stadium.
- - - - -
Go on to the OWC website and you'll read reports of sectarian chanting aimed at NI fans during the same match. What can you do? It's a bit sad, but just how upsetting is it really? Being called an Orange this or a feenyon that. Could people maybe grow up and rank it alongside being called ginger or specky?! I don't know.
Do you still maintain that Bobby, Knees etc are still being sung by Northern Ireland fans at Windsor Park? I totally challenge that, but if that is the mindset amongst nationalists (and that's your choice of course), then the IFA is pi ssing in the wind at hoping to attract such people to Windsor Park
As for the young actor attacked in the village, it was on the news. The guy clearly said those attacking him said 'Hes a kafflick lets kill him' They had him in a wheelie bin in a graden and some old horrible hag of a women told them to get him out of her garden instead of ringning the police. That alone tells you that Windsor Park isnt safe for 'Kafflicks'
- - - - -
These people must have an amazing gift for sniffing out catholics! Desperate story all the same. Don't think I've ever noticed a village resident on the short trek to and from the ground though. Do they stand about armed with knives etc, noses primed?
Ahem. What did NI ever do to the people of ROI? ---------Apart from the vast majority of the Protestant population hating on the ROI for no reason, Nothing.
- - - - - -
Haha, do you have sources for this claim?! Is this what you think?! Gordon Bennett. Could I equally claim the most of the ROI hate NI Unionists. It even manufacturered an illegal army who in the 70s, 80s & 90s, no matter their intent, killed more men, women & children of all religions and none than all the other organisations and the British Army put together - all in the name of uniting Ireland, ironically.
but my point being that why do unionists get offended at TSS? you can see why nationalists are offended at GSTQ, as her forces killed innocent nationalists, but what did the ROI do that makes TSS so offensive?
- - - -
TSS has been hijacked by Irish Republican rebels and is played at the funerals of same terrorists, no links I'm afraid, but they exist on YouTube. It is also the anthem of what is essentially a foreign nation to many people from NI, a nation they have little or no afinity for (see Life & Times Surveys), but hate?! LOL. Personally, I see ROI more like a rival nation, like the Scots & the English, or the Argies and the Brazilians. TSS does not represent me in any way shape or form and only Ireland's Call should be played at both home and away Irish rugby fixtures. Either TSS & GSTQ are both played or ONLY Ireland's Call. That's the way it should be.
I'm a bit disappointed more nationalists haven't contributed to this thread actually. Had hoped to hear a few say : you know what, I'm going to call your bluff fokbaik and make enquiries about what it would take for young nationalists to support NI and buy up tickets.
The sad thing is that for all the bluster about what shouldn't be on display etc, there's not one iota out there for what should be. Makes this Northern Ireland fan deeply suspicious of the motives for nationalists making such complaints.
posted on 18/4/12
Of course people will bring there own flags, and there is nothing wrong with someone bringing a NI glag to a NI game, but no UJ. but im talking about the official flag. It should be the NI footie flag. Thats whaat needs to be done when its divided population.
I dont know fully whats sung at Windsor, but I do know they sing Billy boys as I heard it one of the rares times I watched NI. And as I said it wont be doing nationalists any favours by singing about Bobby, whether its in the Avia in Dublin or at Windsor.
The vast majority ROI residents dont hate unionists. Dont be silly. On the other hand the vast majority of unionists hate the Irish north and south. Also the ROI didnt manufacture any republican group. The Provos and other groups were all Northern based as were the majority of its members.
Just because republicans used the tri colour and TSS doesnt mean the flag and anthem has to be asociated with the IR_A. in that case is the UJ associated with loyalists who murdered innocents? Is the England flag associated with all those innocent people killed in NI, Iraq, Afghan and elsewhere? Is GSTQ associated with drug dealing murderers from the UDA? Not for me it isnt. We need to move away from this narrow warped attitude.
posted on 19/4/12
Of course people will bring there own flags, and there is nothing wrong with someone bringing a NI glag to a NI game, but no UJ. but im talking about the official flag. It should be the NI footie flag. Thats whaat needs to be done when its divided population.
- - - -
So on the one hand, its ok for Irish fans of the rugby to bring tricolours...but it's NOT ok for NI fans to bring Union Flags (NI's official flag by the way) to Northern Ireland football matches. Is that what you're saying? Have I read that wrong?
I dont know fully whats sung at Windsor, but I do know they sing Billy boys as I heard it one of the rares times I watched NI. And as I said it wont be doing nationalists any favours by singing about Bobby, whether its in the Avia in Dublin or at Windsor.
- - - - -
Then why even comment on something you admit you're not fully informed about. Some kno bs singing about Bobby on the Dublin Dart do not represent NI fans, the same way ROI fans singing about the I RA or Orange Bassa's do not presumably represent all ROI fans. Seems to be like these kn obs will forever represent a stick for nationalists to beat NI fans with - or an excuse as to why they won't support NI.
The vast majority ROI residents dont hate unionists. Dont be silly. On the other hand the vast majority of unionists hate the Irish north and south. Also the ROI didnt manufacture any republican group. The Provos and other groups were all Northern based as were the majority of its members.
- - - -
"on the other hand the vast majority of Unionists hate Irish North & SOuth". Without sounding patronising, what age are you?
Why would Unionists hate the "Irish"? Apart from their illegal terror organisations of course.
If I was as ill-informed as that, one could argue that all non-Unionists (note, I don't use "Irish" hate Unionists because they represent the reason why "Ireland" is not "United" and why there is a big fat border. Stands to reason though doesn't it? In fact, seems more plausible that nationalists/republicans hate Unionists for this very reason, than the other way around.
NB - I'm Irish. I come from Northern Ireland. I am a British passport holder. Please do not assume that one cannot be both Irish & British. Same way one can be Scottish & British, English & British etc etc.
Just because republicans used the tri colour and TSS doesnt mean the flag and anthem has to be asociated with the IR_A.
- - - -
Or one could say, just because the NI anthem is GSTQ and the (official) flag is the Union Flag, doens't mean they have to be associated with the British Armed Forces.
You can't have your cake and eat it Godfather.
We need to move away from this narrow warped attitude.
- - - - -
I'll give you example of people with narrow warped attitudes:
People who think Unionists hate "the Irish" North & SOuth
People who firmly believe NI fans still sing Billy, etc at Windsor Park in their droves
People who can't see the harm in one flag/anthem, but only see the harm in others.
This is all a bit off topic, but let me ask you one thing. Do you personally know anyone who would physically go out and support NI (at the expense of whatever other nation they might support - in this case, probably ROI) - if the IFA changed the anthem/flag/match venue etc?
posted on 19/4/12
Yeah I dont agree with NI fans bringing UJ to a NI match. Its not a UK game, so bring a NI flag which is the official flag not the UJ Anyone who brings a UJ to a NI match are doing it for purely political reasons. Or they are desperately trying to show they world how British they are which is quite sad.
Ive never ever heard ROI fans sing about the RA or OO and ive been to plenty of games since I was a kid. So that theory is straight out the windy. On the other hand its not uncommon to hear NI fans singing about loyalists every now and then. Just think back to the 5-0 thrashing or the Youtube video in Dublin.
Also, the RA werent the souths 'illegal organisation'. Thats a bit like saying the UDA was Britians organisation. Very misleading. So that cant be a reason for unionists hating on the southerners. Thats a bit like me hating on the English for shankill butchers even though they were a bunch of 'Ulstermen '. Explain to me why a southern registered car cant park in loyalist areas but northern registered cars can park anywhere in the south without fear of there car being burnt out? Why do so many tri colours be burnt on the bonfires before the 12th? Theres no call for any of that.
I never said you cant be Irish and British. I respect that. I just wish more unionists would respect our right to be Irish instead of calling us British when we clearly arent. Imagine if the English started saying unionists werent really british. Imagine the outroar from wee Peter and Jimmy Alistar. Yet for some reason they are allowed to say we arent Irish. These Unionist folk are unbelieveable at times wuldnt you day.
But the UJ and GSTQ were the official anthem and flag for the brits who murdered children over here. So it will always be associated with them no matter what. The Irish free state forces never once attacked NI, so to label there flag and anthem with the RA is plain stupid. Is the American flag associated with the KKK? just because they used the flag for there own purpose doesnt mean that all white americans are racist.
I dont know anyone who has or would support NI, as I came from a nationalist town, but im sure there are catholics in 'normal areas' who dont have much political thoughts and would consider it if the right conditions were in place.
posted on 19/4/12
Yeah I dont agree with NI fans bringing UJ to a NI match. Its not a UK game.
- - - - -
So presumably you also agree rugby fans shouldn't bring the tricolour to the Aviva or away games, since it's not a Republic of Ireland game??
bring a NI flag which is the official flag....not the UJ
- - - - -
Wrong.
Although the NI flag is adopted by the likes of UEFA, FIFA, and other sporting bodies.
Anyone who brings a UJ to a NI match are doing it for purely political reasons.
- - - - - -
So presumably you also agree anyone who brings a tricolour to an "Ireland" rugby match are doing it for purely poilitical reasons? You can't have it both ways, Godfather, that is the important bit.
Or they are desperately trying to show they world how British they are which is quite sad.
- - -
Or they are desperately trying to show the world the side is Irish (nationalist/republican), which is quite sad.
Ive never ever heard ROI fans sing about the RA or OO and ive been to plenty of games since I was a kid. So that theory is straight out the windy.
- - - -
Ah, I see. So if you haven't heard it, then it doesn't happen. Why didn't I think of that?
On the other hand its not uncommon to hear NI fans singing about loyalists every now and then.
- - -
See the report on OWC website about sectarian chanting aimed at NI fans during the same match. It's swings and roundabouts.
I never said you cant be Irish and British. I respect that. I just wish more unionists would respect our right to be Irish instead of calling us British when we clearly arent.
- - - -
Who's calling you British?!?! You can be as "Irish" as you want to be.
Imagine if the English started saying unionists werent really british. Imagine the outroar from wee Peter and Jimmy Alistar. Yet for some reason they are allowed to say we arent Irish. These Unionist folk are unbelieveable at times wuldnt you day.
- - -
Wee Peter and Jimmy Alisatir say you're not Irish??
But the UJ and GSTQ were the official anthem and flag for the brits who murdered children over here. So it will always be associated with them no matter what. The Irish free state forces never once attacked NI, so to label there flag and anthem with the RA is plain stupid.
- - - -
If it will always be associated with "the Brits", then you can accept that the SOldier's Song and tricolour will forever be associated with Irish Republicanism, which manifested itself into several illegal terror organisations, who murdered more men, women and children and ALL relgions and none, than the Brits ever did.
I dont know anyone who has or would support NI, as I came from a nationalist town, but im sure there are catholics in 'normal areas' who dont have much political thoughts and would consider it if the right conditions were in place.
- - - - -
Being "sure" doesn't really cut it mate. Sorry. If these fence-sitting Catholics existed, we would have heard from them by now in the media or suchlike, about how they want NI to be represented and how that will have them flocking to see them play. It ain't happening. You don't hear a peep. Why do you think that is?
posted on 19/4/12
Im not bothered if Rugby fans bring tri colours to the game, Ulster based fans bring the Ulster flag(both) to the games too you know and it doesnt bother me or anyone else.
The NI flag, otherwise known as the English wannabe flag is the official NI flag. To say the UJ is the official flag is just stupid. Imagine some wee billy from the East Belfast trying to tell the English that there UJ jack flag i actually 'Norn Irons'
Not really no, since Ireland are playing its acceptable to bring an ROI flag or Ulster/NI flag.However its not acceptable to bring a UJ to a NI game, as Britian arent playing so the person bringing the flag is bringing it purely for political reasons. 'Were pure British so we are'
The side is actually Irish, so binging an Ireland flag to the game isnt desperate or attention seeking. Unlike the Unionist folk who like to cover there streets in UJ, British bunting, painting there lamposts and kerbs red white and blue, singing GSTQ all in a desperate attempt to be seen as british by the rest of the world(but mainly for the rest of the UK who just see them as Irish lol). Or maybe its all in the name of culture eh? as those folks at the OO are always telling us.
Show me one report of ROI fans singing about the RA and I will apologise and admit you were right all along...........
Nah the murdering brits were the official army of the Queen, so GSTQ will always be associated with them. The RA werent official anything, so to associate them with the tri colour is idiotic and sad. Especially considering what the flag represents. Peace between our two communities. But obviously loyalists dont what that as they love to burn tri colours on the 11th night dont they? Do you associate the KKK with the USA flag? you must do.
And you cant be taken seriously if you think the RA killed more innocent people than the British. How the hell do you think the British built there empire.
Hey, if no catholics want to support NI thats fine by me. All the better as the IFA and there fans deserve everything they get. But if they ever hope to regain the support of the other half the country they need to start somewhere. And im just showing you the foundations.Over and out.
posted on 19/4/12
Your ignorance know no bounds. I've pulled apart your each and every post on this thread.
It's a pity, but I feel like I've wasted my time educating you. Your stupidity & bigotry is a genetic thing, passed down from one thick bigotted cont to another. It's your future offspring I feel for, because sure as nignt follows day, theyll be told, unionists = evil.
Sure keep believing - your day will come
It's what got your predecessors through the day
posted on 19/4/12
Eh? look back on all the posts again without the orange tinted glasses and you will see ive wiped the floor with you each and every time and now your calling it quits as im absolutely spot on. Like i said, The IFA and there fans deserve everything they get. And its only going to get worse and worse. Indeed. All for now folks more on the Godfather De Mango show tommorrow. Till next time, over and out
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