We have not addressed goalscoring, don't think anyone would suggest we have, but I'd also like to take you back 18 months when this board was full of people annoyed that while we had a decent team our squad just couldn't compete with our rivals - to an extent this window has reopened that issue.
--------------------------------------
This is fair enough tbh. At the same time, there are few and far between teams out there that have addressed all their weaknesses.
We done OK this summer. Not spectacular, not awful. We are better that we were in May and hopefully shall see the results in due course.
Look I am not having a go at the owners, manager, youth players or the club. But and it's a big but. Someone on here, anybody tell me they were not hoping to sign a striker last night. I am hugely dissappointed to say the least.
I do see positives of course. I agree with the outs and ins but I believe we needed more if we are to challenge. Just ask yourself the question. We all no the answer and it has not been provided in this window
Everyone wants young players to be given a chance, but at the right time, not thrown in when he have no other options under intense pressure, which is what could happen now.
Morgan vs Hearts was fine, a good game for him to make his debut.
Morgan vs Sunderland away if we haven't won a game yet this season (possible), is not so good.
Of course there has been lots of overreaction but that just shows the state of the situation that it is not just the usual knee-jerkers who are worried here.
kash
Seriously are you that stupid?
Net spend over 4 seasons is £50 million.
Net spend per season on average is £12.5 million.
It's stiffing the new manager and lying to the fans that's annoying.
-----------
How do you know that it wasn't BR who set the max price for Dempsey. He set a price for Gylfi, so what makes you think that this wasnt BR too. Why is this FSG's fault?
Righteous - Morgan was woeful against Hearts. Absolutely woeful. He is nowhere near ready and shouldn't have been thrown in at the deepend. For me it was an attempt by Rodgers to show the owners we need a forward. it's a shame, we could have just played Carroll.
Op, its not just that we lost AC though is it? We also lost Kuyt and Bellamy. The squad has been cut to the bone. I'm also interested to see how the youngsters perform but I remember being excited about le Tallec, Pongolle, Mellor and many others. The reality rarely matches the hype. We've greatly reduced our options and a few injuries will leave us up the creek. Inthe words of HMHB, never mind a paddle, we won't even have a canoe
I have faith in Rodgers but I still have reservations about FSG.
This window has only reinforced both opinions.
I refuse to to believe that they are our saviours because they are not H&G and they bought the club at a bargain price. The mistakes they have made, combined their alarming knee jerking, has made and continues to make me sceptical that they understand the business of football.
I'm thankful that we have a manager who understands what he needs to improve the team. He identified our midfield as a problem and prioritised this area to sort out this summer (in the short term at least) which was imo an extremely sensible move.
It's just a shame that somewhere along the line he wasn't able/or allowed to conitinue the process which was required this summer, presumably due to financial restrictions. All very strange considering he has managed to wipe a huge amount off the wage bill.
It's not strange at all, he's paying for Dalglish's mistakes from last season and along with the eighth place finish our spending had to match that. If, rather I believe when, we show progress this season, our spending will go up to match that.
TOOR, what evidence do you have that spending will go up if we have a successful season? Are we right to infer that it will go down again if we have an unsuccessful season, as it did this season?
I don't have any evidence, which is why I believe it but don't know it. Simply I believe that's the right way to go about things and thus with owners who have went about things in the right way since they came, will be the route they'll take.
That depends what you define as an unsuccessful season. For me progress towards a Champions League place justifies the manager's decisions and therefore justifies giving him more money to spend in achieving the goal.
Actually evidence points to the contrary that spending accelerates performance.
Ie man city, Chelsea, spurs..
What you people want, is a sugar daddy. Unfortunately we don't have that, we have business men, who need sustainability, in order for the club to run on it's own means, so as they can make profit. The profit margins are higher with more success, of course but first things come first and that's sustainability. It's a long process but this season is the beginning of the longterm plan.
We won't see losses in the accounts this year and we'll see, in my opinion, improvement in our league position, which will then justify spending for next season.
I don't particularly want a sugar daddy (but I don't mind if we get one). I just want owners whose primary focus is on improving the squad rather than reducing costs
Their primary focus is on improving the squad, of course it is but as I said they have now to pick up the pieces for last season's shambles, where Dalglish messed up big time and had to be replaced. So first comes sustainability. It's the long route but it's the right one. You can't just expect businessmen to come in and fund purchases. Others do it by taking on loans against the club and if it backfires and you don't make that money back and quickly, then you're left in the position we were a couple of seasons back, facing administration.
What you people want, is a sugar daddy
----------------
Please don't put words into peoples mouths toor. What I want is the actions of the owners to match their rhetoric.
Want I don't expect is for them to show an inability to grasp the football side of this business venture. Thus I'm still far from convinced that they have,
What happens if we fail to make the required progress on the pitch this season? God forbid we are one defeat today away from a 1 point in 9 start to the season. Will this mean less money to spend in January?
As I have said I have faith the manager and my belief he knows what he is doing. It is also my belief however that the owners still have plenty to prove to gain my trust.
Just because they bought the club at a snip and have not leveraged any acquisition debt, doesn't necessitate my absolute trust, considering their conflicting statements lack of patience they have already demonstrated.
You're a hypocrite, whilst FSG show the patience to go with the long term plan, you don't have the patience to allow it.
Stop being such a tart toor.
Could you please highlight where FSG have shown patience themselves? They've hired and fired and set unrealistic targets, overspent and panic buyed.
They have asked for it via their PR machine, but when have they actually showed patience themselves?
They have asked for it via their PR machine, but when have they actually showed patience themselves?
----------
They've said it's going to be a long process to fix this club and start challenging, how is that not patience? They've also outlined their plan about sustainability, they've not at all set unrealistic targets.
I posted this in July "I don't think we will be able to tell how good Rodgers is until the middle of the season after this one. First half of this season will be about learning which players are not able to adapt to his gameplan. Any urgent signings will be made in January, then by the end of this coming season he will know EXACTLY what's needed and will be allowed (hopefully) to go and get those players. Only after having had those players together for 6 monthsish will we be in a position to truly judge him and his gameplan. Until then, I will get fully behind him and the team, and urge all true Liverpool fans to do the same."
I stand by it. It would have been highly unlikely (and foolish imo) for FSG to chuck another 100 Million plus onto the managers desk and let him get on with it.
By the start of next season, we will be able to have a more balanced view on the owners (not that we can do anything about it anyway!) Until then, SUPPORT YOUR CLUB!
comment by Pâî§Lë¥'&scaron... (U1541)
posted 5 minutes ago
Stop being such a tart toor.
Could you please highlight where FSG have shown patience themselves? They've hired and fired and set unrealistic targets, overspent and panic buyed.
They have asked for it via their PR machine, but when have they actually showed patience themselves?
-------------------------------------
They've come in with a long term plan and are executing it, having set a policy of getting young players in and taking on a young up and coming manager. They've set about making the club sustainable, so as it can run on its own means in future, without the threat of administration again. They fired both Comolli and Dalglish who both failed massively and took in a long term manager instead.
You ask for patience but you aren't willing to give it all because they sacked Dalglish. As I've said before, I love Dalglish as much as the next man but I love my club more and this is Liverpool Football Club not Dalglish Football Club. As he always says, the club come first.
They haired and sacked a manager after giving him a three year contract. Giving him a one season target of reaching the top four. For me this showed a distinct lack of patience.
They decided they wanted a continental approachf of hiring DOF who implemented an anti-matter version of moneyball which they championed. They also declared that they wanted a DOF to be hired with their new manager. Then quickly scrapped the idea, again hardly patient.
Preaching patience and demonstrating patience are two compeltely different things.
My own personal stance that as long as we finish 17th or higher Brendan Rodgers will have my support. He needs our patience and it will take more than one season to get the team back on track. Is that patient enough for you?
FSG are here to make money, nothing more, nothing less. They are the current owners of the club. They won't be when they can maximise their profits on a sale. That's it. FSG are the owners. They're not as bad as some, we all know that, but to see some fans (not necessarily you toor) nail their colours to the mast in their full support is a bit mindless to me, especially after the recent shenanigans.
It will obviously take me a bit longer for me to buy and wave my LFC/FSG half and half scarf.
Grizzly, it was foolish to spend the sums of money they did last season. Buying AC was not a mistake but paying the amount we did was. Ditto with Henderson and Downing. Lessons clearly had to be learnt but leaving us with a wafer thin squad is a high risk strategy
They haired and sacked a manager after giving him a three year contract. Giving him a one season target of reaching the top four. For me this showed a distinct lack of patience.
------------
Do you really believe he was sacked for not getting top 4? Perhaps he was sacked for coming 8th and wasting £100m.
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A Monumental Overreaction
Page 2 of 3
posted on 1/9/12
We have not addressed goalscoring, don't think anyone would suggest we have, but I'd also like to take you back 18 months when this board was full of people annoyed that while we had a decent team our squad just couldn't compete with our rivals - to an extent this window has reopened that issue.
--------------------------------------
This is fair enough tbh. At the same time, there are few and far between teams out there that have addressed all their weaknesses.
We done OK this summer. Not spectacular, not awful. We are better that we were in May and hopefully shall see the results in due course.
posted on 1/9/12
Look I am not having a go at the owners, manager, youth players or the club. But and it's a big but. Someone on here, anybody tell me they were not hoping to sign a striker last night. I am hugely dissappointed to say the least.
I do see positives of course. I agree with the outs and ins but I believe we needed more if we are to challenge. Just ask yourself the question. We all no the answer and it has not been provided in this window
posted on 1/9/12
Everyone wants young players to be given a chance, but at the right time, not thrown in when he have no other options under intense pressure, which is what could happen now.
Morgan vs Hearts was fine, a good game for him to make his debut.
Morgan vs Sunderland away if we haven't won a game yet this season (possible), is not so good.
Of course there has been lots of overreaction but that just shows the state of the situation that it is not just the usual knee-jerkers who are worried here.
posted on 1/9/12
kash
Seriously are you that stupid?
Net spend over 4 seasons is £50 million.
Net spend per season on average is £12.5 million.
posted on 1/9/12
It's stiffing the new manager and lying to the fans that's annoying.
-----------
How do you know that it wasn't BR who set the max price for Dempsey. He set a price for Gylfi, so what makes you think that this wasnt BR too. Why is this FSG's fault?
posted on 1/9/12
Righteous - Morgan was woeful against Hearts. Absolutely woeful. He is nowhere near ready and shouldn't have been thrown in at the deepend. For me it was an attempt by Rodgers to show the owners we need a forward. it's a shame, we could have just played Carroll.
posted on 2/9/12
Op, its not just that we lost AC though is it? We also lost Kuyt and Bellamy. The squad has been cut to the bone. I'm also interested to see how the youngsters perform but I remember being excited about le Tallec, Pongolle, Mellor and many others. The reality rarely matches the hype. We've greatly reduced our options and a few injuries will leave us up the creek. Inthe words of HMHB, never mind a paddle, we won't even have a canoe
posted on 2/9/12
I have faith in Rodgers but I still have reservations about FSG.
This window has only reinforced both opinions.
I refuse to to believe that they are our saviours because they are not H&G and they bought the club at a bargain price. The mistakes they have made, combined their alarming knee jerking, has made and continues to make me sceptical that they understand the business of football.
I'm thankful that we have a manager who understands what he needs to improve the team. He identified our midfield as a problem and prioritised this area to sort out this summer (in the short term at least) which was imo an extremely sensible move.
It's just a shame that somewhere along the line he wasn't able/or allowed to conitinue the process which was required this summer, presumably due to financial restrictions. All very strange considering he has managed to wipe a huge amount off the wage bill.
posted on 2/9/12
It's not strange at all, he's paying for Dalglish's mistakes from last season and along with the eighth place finish our spending had to match that. If, rather I believe when, we show progress this season, our spending will go up to match that.
posted on 2/9/12
TOOR, what evidence do you have that spending will go up if we have a successful season? Are we right to infer that it will go down again if we have an unsuccessful season, as it did this season?
posted on 2/9/12
I don't have any evidence, which is why I believe it but don't know it. Simply I believe that's the right way to go about things and thus with owners who have went about things in the right way since they came, will be the route they'll take.
posted on 2/9/12
That depends what you define as an unsuccessful season. For me progress towards a Champions League place justifies the manager's decisions and therefore justifies giving him more money to spend in achieving the goal.
posted on 2/9/12
Actually evidence points to the contrary that spending accelerates performance.
Ie man city, Chelsea, spurs..
posted on 2/9/12
What you people want, is a sugar daddy. Unfortunately we don't have that, we have business men, who need sustainability, in order for the club to run on it's own means, so as they can make profit. The profit margins are higher with more success, of course but first things come first and that's sustainability. It's a long process but this season is the beginning of the longterm plan.
We won't see losses in the accounts this year and we'll see, in my opinion, improvement in our league position, which will then justify spending for next season.
posted on 2/9/12
I don't particularly want a sugar daddy (but I don't mind if we get one). I just want owners whose primary focus is on improving the squad rather than reducing costs
posted on 2/9/12
Their primary focus is on improving the squad, of course it is but as I said they have now to pick up the pieces for last season's shambles, where Dalglish messed up big time and had to be replaced. So first comes sustainability. It's the long route but it's the right one. You can't just expect businessmen to come in and fund purchases. Others do it by taking on loans against the club and if it backfires and you don't make that money back and quickly, then you're left in the position we were a couple of seasons back, facing administration.
posted on 2/9/12
What you people want, is a sugar daddy
----------------
Please don't put words into peoples mouths toor. What I want is the actions of the owners to match their rhetoric.
Want I don't expect is for them to show an inability to grasp the football side of this business venture. Thus I'm still far from convinced that they have,
What happens if we fail to make the required progress on the pitch this season? God forbid we are one defeat today away from a 1 point in 9 start to the season. Will this mean less money to spend in January?
As I have said I have faith the manager and my belief he knows what he is doing. It is also my belief however that the owners still have plenty to prove to gain my trust.
Just because they bought the club at a snip and have not leveraged any acquisition debt, doesn't necessitate my absolute trust, considering their conflicting statements lack of patience they have already demonstrated.
posted on 2/9/12
You're a hypocrite, whilst FSG show the patience to go with the long term plan, you don't have the patience to allow it.
posted on 2/9/12
Stop being such a tart toor.
Could you please highlight where FSG have shown patience themselves? They've hired and fired and set unrealistic targets, overspent and panic buyed.
They have asked for it via their PR machine, but when have they actually showed patience themselves?
posted on 2/9/12
They have asked for it via their PR machine, but when have they actually showed patience themselves?
----------
They've said it's going to be a long process to fix this club and start challenging, how is that not patience? They've also outlined their plan about sustainability, they've not at all set unrealistic targets.
posted on 2/9/12
I posted this in July "I don't think we will be able to tell how good Rodgers is until the middle of the season after this one. First half of this season will be about learning which players are not able to adapt to his gameplan. Any urgent signings will be made in January, then by the end of this coming season he will know EXACTLY what's needed and will be allowed (hopefully) to go and get those players. Only after having had those players together for 6 monthsish will we be in a position to truly judge him and his gameplan. Until then, I will get fully behind him and the team, and urge all true Liverpool fans to do the same."
I stand by it. It would have been highly unlikely (and foolish imo) for FSG to chuck another 100 Million plus onto the managers desk and let him get on with it.
By the start of next season, we will be able to have a more balanced view on the owners (not that we can do anything about it anyway!) Until then, SUPPORT YOUR CLUB!
posted on 2/9/12
comment by Pâî§Lë¥'&scaron... (U1541)
posted 5 minutes ago
Stop being such a tart toor.
Could you please highlight where FSG have shown patience themselves? They've hired and fired and set unrealistic targets, overspent and panic buyed.
They have asked for it via their PR machine, but when have they actually showed patience themselves?
-------------------------------------
They've come in with a long term plan and are executing it, having set a policy of getting young players in and taking on a young up and coming manager. They've set about making the club sustainable, so as it can run on its own means in future, without the threat of administration again. They fired both Comolli and Dalglish who both failed massively and took in a long term manager instead.
You ask for patience but you aren't willing to give it all because they sacked Dalglish. As I've said before, I love Dalglish as much as the next man but I love my club more and this is Liverpool Football Club not Dalglish Football Club. As he always says, the club come first.
posted on 2/9/12
They haired and sacked a manager after giving him a three year contract. Giving him a one season target of reaching the top four. For me this showed a distinct lack of patience.
They decided they wanted a continental approachf of hiring DOF who implemented an anti-matter version of moneyball which they championed. They also declared that they wanted a DOF to be hired with their new manager. Then quickly scrapped the idea, again hardly patient.
Preaching patience and demonstrating patience are two compeltely different things.
My own personal stance that as long as we finish 17th or higher Brendan Rodgers will have my support. He needs our patience and it will take more than one season to get the team back on track. Is that patient enough for you?
FSG are here to make money, nothing more, nothing less. They are the current owners of the club. They won't be when they can maximise their profits on a sale. That's it. FSG are the owners. They're not as bad as some, we all know that, but to see some fans (not necessarily you toor) nail their colours to the mast in their full support is a bit mindless to me, especially after the recent shenanigans.
It will obviously take me a bit longer for me to buy and wave my LFC/FSG half and half scarf.
posted on 2/9/12
Grizzly, it was foolish to spend the sums of money they did last season. Buying AC was not a mistake but paying the amount we did was. Ditto with Henderson and Downing. Lessons clearly had to be learnt but leaving us with a wafer thin squad is a high risk strategy
posted on 2/9/12
They haired and sacked a manager after giving him a three year contract. Giving him a one season target of reaching the top four. For me this showed a distinct lack of patience.
------------
Do you really believe he was sacked for not getting top 4? Perhaps he was sacked for coming 8th and wasting £100m.
Page 2 of 3