They are all recognised credible sources Manu
Gary Anderson is an expert
Vettel tho 3 time WC but then so was Nelson Piquet Snr bizarre as it may seem it doesnt automatically make him top 10 or 12 driver ever.
Harsh but I would like to see how he matches up to a) a front line team mate and/or b) out performing a car that isn't a natural winner. Probably a harsh line for me to take, but something somehow still to prove??
PB (U16152)
I have no respect for you because you have no interest or knowledge of F1.
You got bored with trying to amuse yourself by being an irritating nuisance on the Spurs football section, where most Spurs supporters laugh at you and you have to filter them to avoid embarrassment, and then decided to wander off to the F1 section to see if you could be a more successful embarrassing nuisance without actually knowing anything about the sport..
You thought that it would be an easy ride. Simply tell lies, twist and distort anything people posted that you did not have the capability to understand.
Your previous identity
“J.P.B. and his broken laptop COYS(U1059)”
Was put into moderation because you are just a nuisance. You then rejoined as JPB(U16152) and was prevented from posting on the F1 topics because you are just a nuisance.
The Admins released you from your F1 ban and what do you do? Resort to going back to being a nuisance.
I must say I am quite tempted to buy this site just so I can ban you.
Welshy
None of the individuals that I listed impress me in the slightest. In fact the purpose was to show how ridiculous it was to rely on some pundits view to override a person's own point of view.
You have put forward a case for Jean Alesi to be recognised as a great driver. I must admit that I do not agree with your view. However, you have obviously followed his career and I may have overlooked his performance.
When people such as yourself mention driver names then I welcome the opportunity to research and investigate their careers to see if I have missed something.
2010 2011 2012 seasons Alonso was the better driver. Jenson Button in a Redbull would have trounced Vettel. Perhaps Alesi would have done the same.
it doesnt automatically make him top 10 or 12 driver ever.
========================
I haven't said it does.
Where have I said that ?
It means that he isn't "rubbish" obviously. Such a suggestion could only be made by a complete idiot.
I haven't suggested that he has to be top 12 of all time because he's won the last 3 titles though - ive pointed out that 4 well recognised f1 sources have recently classified him as one of the best 12 drivers ever
Comment deleted by Article Creator
Wigan, when I was mentioning top 10/12 re Vettel. That wasnt aimed at you it was a general comment from me, using Piquet Snr as a comparison. We need to see a career as a whole imo anyway, Vettel has years ahead of him.
The sources you quote are not recognised experts in their field.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. The fact you guys continue to big up Vettel and have to try and prove to everyone he's great simply shows he isn't. Greatness is clear to see for everyone in every sport.
Forgive me for not fellating the tail pipe of someone who Di Resta beat who is fortunate to have the team built around him in a Newey car.
A great driver, a credible source said; I'm racing Adrian Newey not Vettel.
That's a quote you can use.
You can also use this quote from the person in the headline (who I do not rate)
Vettel will not be considered great until he goes somewhere else and replicates his form.
WTCBU
Gotta be honest I wouldnt be convinced at all that Button would have trounced Vettel in those years by top line driver I was referring to an Alonso/Raikkonen/Hamilton
Button is a v.good driver but for me lacks consistancy.
Re; Alesi. I love the guy, but even I would not rank him in the top 20 best drivers. Favourite driver - yes
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Jenson Button in a Redbull would have trounced Vettel. Perhaps Alesi would have done the same.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, but this kind of statement irritates me hugely. How do you know how Button would have performed in a Red Bull?
Vettel, the most over and under hyped driver on the grid?
Vettel, the most over and under hyped driver on the grid?
-------------------------------------------
so true!
The reason I know Button would have beaten him were his peformancws in the Brawn. Button has also won races in different teams with different cars designed by different people
I assume that you think that Webber is a dreadful driver then?
You still don't know how Button would have done in the Red Bull. Vettel got the maximum out of the RB7. I don't think that anyone could have done better.
The RB7 ran on rails and was unbeatable by any other car on the grid. It wasn't very hard to get the best out of it.
2010 Vettel was outperformed by both Webber and Alonso and was lucky that their pit crews screwed up big style.
2012 Alonso would have won the WDC if others had not crashed into him.
Alonso, Button, Hamilton and di Resta have all commented that when the are behind Vettel they see him make mistake after mistake on every lap and he gets away with it due to the superiority of the car design.
Newey won the championships not Vettel. Newey deserves the plaudits.
It annoys me when people who have no understanding of “greatness” can actually suggest that any of today's drivers are up there with the true greatest. Coulthard himself stated in the 2011 that “History” will decide.
Alonso, Button, Hamilton and di Resta have all commented that when the are behind Vettel they see him make mistake after mistake on every lap and he gets away with it due to the superiority of the car design.
=====================
yes, I remember them saying that too. oh no, wait...
They actually did. The fact you do not know about it doesn't change the fact it happened.
You watch the BBC coverage, right? They used to juxtapose drivers in corners to show who was clipping the right apexes and Vettel was always getting corners wrong but the car made up for it.
They are experts according to you, right? Or are they only right when they agree with you.
I would say that there may be a chance that current drivers are engaging in gamesmanship or may even have a bit of an axe to grind. Obviously they know what they are talking about though, and if they back it up with evidence as you say then that has to be considered very strongly.
Seeing as there is such a focus on this board on how good vettel is, I am surprised that if such footage exists that it was not raised at the time.
In what capacity were di resta, Alonso, Hamilton and Button providing an analysis of vettel's driving ? was this in a special programme about vettel in which they all said he was shiiit, or has it just come up in conversation in a post race interview ?
Quote from Hamilton “‘If you watch Sebastian Vettel now,’ he says, ‘he always runs over the astroturf and over the kerb a little more than he should, going beyond the white line, which you’re not actually allowed to do but they let you get away with it.”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-2320375/Lewis-Hamilton-respects-Ayrton-Senna-far-todays-drivers--interview-MARTIN-SAMUEL.html
Here is a photograph of one of his mistakes
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/05/06/article-2320375-19A68C0D000005DC-489_634x443.jpg
You could argue that their views are sour grapes but I doubt if they would get away with making those statements if they thought they were not credible views.
He's not actually saying that he's slow though is he. Without wishing to be provocative he is actually saying the opposite of what ManU suggested, ie he is pushing it to the absoloute limit.
The picture of him off the track proves nothing. There isn't a driver in history who hasn't gone wide on an exit of a fast bend. For all I know he could have been pushed off the track in an overtaking maneouveure anyway; the picture proves nothing.
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Coulthard : Vettel could be greatest ever
Page 2 of 4
posted on 13/5/13
Good list that
quality
posted on 13/5/13
They are all recognised credible sources Manu
posted on 13/5/13
Gary Anderson is an expert
posted on 13/5/13
Vettel tho 3 time WC but then so was Nelson Piquet Snr bizarre as it may seem it doesnt automatically make him top 10 or 12 driver ever.
Harsh but I would like to see how he matches up to a) a front line team mate and/or b) out performing a car that isn't a natural winner. Probably a harsh line for me to take, but something somehow still to prove??
posted on 13/5/13
PB (U16152)
I have no respect for you because you have no interest or knowledge of F1.
You got bored with trying to amuse yourself by being an irritating nuisance on the Spurs football section, where most Spurs supporters laugh at you and you have to filter them to avoid embarrassment, and then decided to wander off to the F1 section to see if you could be a more successful embarrassing nuisance without actually knowing anything about the sport..
You thought that it would be an easy ride. Simply tell lies, twist and distort anything people posted that you did not have the capability to understand.
Your previous identity
“J.P.B. and his broken laptop COYS(U1059)”
Was put into moderation because you are just a nuisance. You then rejoined as JPB(U16152) and was prevented from posting on the F1 topics because you are just a nuisance.
The Admins released you from your F1 ban and what do you do? Resort to going back to being a nuisance.
posted on 14/5/13
I must say I am quite tempted to buy this site just so I can ban you.
posted on 14/5/13
Welshy
None of the individuals that I listed impress me in the slightest. In fact the purpose was to show how ridiculous it was to rely on some pundits view to override a person's own point of view.
You have put forward a case for Jean Alesi to be recognised as a great driver. I must admit that I do not agree with your view. However, you have obviously followed his career and I may have overlooked his performance.
When people such as yourself mention driver names then I welcome the opportunity to research and investigate their careers to see if I have missed something.
2010 2011 2012 seasons Alonso was the better driver. Jenson Button in a Redbull would have trounced Vettel. Perhaps Alesi would have done the same.
posted on 14/5/13
it doesnt automatically make him top 10 or 12 driver ever.
========================
I haven't said it does.
Where have I said that ?
It means that he isn't "rubbish" obviously. Such a suggestion could only be made by a complete idiot.
I haven't suggested that he has to be top 12 of all time because he's won the last 3 titles though - ive pointed out that 4 well recognised f1 sources have recently classified him as one of the best 12 drivers ever
posted on 14/5/13
Comment deleted by Article Creator
posted on 14/5/13
get faked rrrrwipe
posted on 14/5/13
Wigan, when I was mentioning top 10/12 re Vettel. That wasnt aimed at you it was a general comment from me, using Piquet Snr as a comparison. We need to see a career as a whole imo anyway, Vettel has years ahead of him.
posted on 14/5/13
The sources you quote are not recognised experts in their field.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. The fact you guys continue to big up Vettel and have to try and prove to everyone he's great simply shows he isn't. Greatness is clear to see for everyone in every sport.
Forgive me for not fellating the tail pipe of someone who Di Resta beat who is fortunate to have the team built around him in a Newey car.
A great driver, a credible source said; I'm racing Adrian Newey not Vettel.
That's a quote you can use.
You can also use this quote from the person in the headline (who I do not rate)
Vettel will not be considered great until he goes somewhere else and replicates his form.
posted on 14/5/13
WTCBU
Gotta be honest I wouldnt be convinced at all that Button would have trounced Vettel in those years by top line driver I was referring to an Alonso/Raikkonen/Hamilton
Button is a v.good driver but for me lacks consistancy.
Re; Alesi. I love the guy, but even I would not rank him in the top 20 best drivers. Favourite driver - yes
posted on 14/5/13
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 14/5/13
Jenson Button in a Redbull would have trounced Vettel. Perhaps Alesi would have done the same.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, but this kind of statement irritates me hugely. How do you know how Button would have performed in a Red Bull?
posted on 14/5/13
Vettel, the most over and under hyped driver on the grid?
posted on 14/5/13
Vettel, the most over and under hyped driver on the grid?
-------------------------------------------
so true!
posted on 14/5/13
The reason I know Button would have beaten him were his peformancws in the Brawn. Button has also won races in different teams with different cars designed by different people
posted on 14/5/13
I assume that you think that Webber is a dreadful driver then?
You still don't know how Button would have done in the Red Bull. Vettel got the maximum out of the RB7. I don't think that anyone could have done better.
posted on 14/5/13
The RB7 ran on rails and was unbeatable by any other car on the grid. It wasn't very hard to get the best out of it.
2010 Vettel was outperformed by both Webber and Alonso and was lucky that their pit crews screwed up big style.
2012 Alonso would have won the WDC if others had not crashed into him.
Alonso, Button, Hamilton and di Resta have all commented that when the are behind Vettel they see him make mistake after mistake on every lap and he gets away with it due to the superiority of the car design.
Newey won the championships not Vettel. Newey deserves the plaudits.
It annoys me when people who have no understanding of “greatness” can actually suggest that any of today's drivers are up there with the true greatest. Coulthard himself stated in the 2011 that “History” will decide.
posted on 14/5/13
Alonso, Button, Hamilton and di Resta have all commented that when the are behind Vettel they see him make mistake after mistake on every lap and he gets away with it due to the superiority of the car design.
=====================
yes, I remember them saying that too. oh no, wait...
posted on 14/5/13
They actually did. The fact you do not know about it doesn't change the fact it happened.
You watch the BBC coverage, right? They used to juxtapose drivers in corners to show who was clipping the right apexes and Vettel was always getting corners wrong but the car made up for it.
They are experts according to you, right? Or are they only right when they agree with you.
posted on 14/5/13
I would say that there may be a chance that current drivers are engaging in gamesmanship or may even have a bit of an axe to grind. Obviously they know what they are talking about though, and if they back it up with evidence as you say then that has to be considered very strongly.
Seeing as there is such a focus on this board on how good vettel is, I am surprised that if such footage exists that it was not raised at the time.
In what capacity were di resta, Alonso, Hamilton and Button providing an analysis of vettel's driving ? was this in a special programme about vettel in which they all said he was shiiit, or has it just come up in conversation in a post race interview ?
posted on 14/5/13
Quote from Hamilton “‘If you watch Sebastian Vettel now,’ he says, ‘he always runs over the astroturf and over the kerb a little more than he should, going beyond the white line, which you’re not actually allowed to do but they let you get away with it.”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-2320375/Lewis-Hamilton-respects-Ayrton-Senna-far-todays-drivers--interview-MARTIN-SAMUEL.html
Here is a photograph of one of his mistakes
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/05/06/article-2320375-19A68C0D000005DC-489_634x443.jpg
You could argue that their views are sour grapes but I doubt if they would get away with making those statements if they thought they were not credible views.
posted on 14/5/13
He's not actually saying that he's slow though is he. Without wishing to be provocative he is actually saying the opposite of what ManU suggested, ie he is pushing it to the absoloute limit.
The picture of him off the track proves nothing. There isn't a driver in history who hasn't gone wide on an exit of a fast bend. For all I know he could have been pushed off the track in an overtaking maneouveure anyway; the picture proves nothing.
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