Fraser Forster is a safer pair of hands than Hart at the moment.

He messed up for Bayern's first goal. Don't blame him for the 3rd. I don't know where the endlessly recycled cliché about not getting beaten at your near post comes from but it's overplayed a lot in those situations.

I asked joe Corrigan is hart getting unfair stick and he said no, he's a big lad paid a lot of money.

Simple as that.

Hart needs to be dropped asap by Pelegrini.

As for England, although i have not seen much of Forster he seems ok but has still one or two errors in him.
But so do all keepers.

Who have you got as cover, Koma? I thought you sold Pants?

Forster made some very good saves against Barca (though it was only 2 or 3 I remember off the top of my head) and against them last season, he was superb.

Haven't seen really anything of him outside the CL

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Jay,

Pants is still with us and hasn't done much wrong when called upon.

Will do no harm in playing Pants at weekend.

Aye, I think Hart needs to know he's not un-droppable.

We did the same with DDG last season & the one before - If he played a shocker, Lindegaard was brought in until he made an error, and they had some sort of competition.

The rest speaks for itself, DDG is now one of the best keepers in the league.

Joe hart saved 10 shots last night I believe. I don't think de gea has even saved 10 shots this season so its a bit embarrassing singling out hart when if teams keep firing shots at you or playing a clever defence splitting pass its not harts failt. Robben and ribery goal was poor defending allowing ribery a free shot at goal from 20 yds or robbn to run and shoot from quite close in and the the other goal was a defence spliiting pass.

Man city were outclassed in midifield when yaya and fernandinho were ball watching just like when man city played dortmund with yaya playing they got overun.

"Now I think he's gone too far the other way and doesn't actually give a flying sheit."

See, I actually think the complete opposite. He has got at the moment a complete lack of confidence for me.

He will come good again, you don't play as well as he did for three seasons and have a game like he did against Dortmund last year without being extremely talented. He needs to sort his head out though and maybe some time of the bench will do that.

It's a tough one, I completely disagree with anyone that thinks it is down to overconfidence or lack of competition though.

In no way am i saying Hart is a poor keeper, when in form he is up there as one of the leagues best.

We only have to look back 12 months ago and Hart put in the best goalkeeping performance i have ever witnessed against Dortmund.

Since then he has lost his way, but to say he doesn't care is plain daft.

I don't mean it in the sense that he needs competition to thrive - that just so happened to be what was needed for De Gea, who at the time was pretty much equal to Lindegaard.

Currently Hart can get away with making mistakes because the chances of him being dropped for Pants in the league is very slim. Hart is better than Pants, no question about that, but there needs to be some consequence for his errors.

If it were any other City player, they'd be dropped for the next game.

No they are not, this season he has been awful, and should be dropped for the visit of Everton, this Saturday. Maybe this will wake him up and make him perform a lot better then he has been doing lately. How can from having the best defence for the last 2 seasons we suddenly have 1 of the worst in the league, Joe's form hasn't been helped by him wasting time doing these commercials for hair shampoo, in fact he has started to go backwards and this season hasn't improved at all.

It all depends on the reasons for the mistakes though. De Gea got dropped for Lindegaard because they wanted him to do more in training in terms of physicality, it was more that side than mental for him.

With a keeper in particular, training or dropping a player is not something that always brings back confidence as quickly as an outfield player, it can have a complete adverse effect. Due to the solitary nature of the position, you cannot replicate the pressures a keeper goes under as he doesn't have 10 other players that can help him out to the same extent. It can easily have even more of a detrimental impact.

It's a tough one, I'm really not sure what the answer is without knowing the individual fully.

Fair point, there is the argument that he should 'play himself back in to form'. It depends on Hart's mentality I guess.

Players like Ronaldo, if they were dropped, would train twice as hard to get back in to the team. Whereas, confidence players, very much so in terms of keepers, and strikers lose the confidence after being dropped - which is cyclical. Don't play enough to regain confidence - lose more.

Especially if Pants were to come in and do a fantastic job and kept Hart benched for an extended period.

He needs one top quality display where he makes a few of those 'wonder saves', that'll set him right.

Agreed Jay. Why are you guys moaning about last night by the way? Didn't watch your game, but I would have thought a draw away at Shaktar was a good result!

I thought the result was ok. Our performance was poor though. I've said it before though, any away points are good points.

People are complaining because Moyes was negative - at a ground where not many teams win, and English teams have never won. I think people are looking back at Fergie's last few years with a touchof nostalgia. While last night was poor, it was no more so than some of our games in the last few years under SAF.

I've said for a while that would be a problem Jay, I wrote an article on it a few weeks ago in that people have to be very careful not to put Ferguson on an even higher pedestal than he already was, he would have played defensive football to get a point at times as well.

Last season in the CL we lost away to Gala, and were 10 minutes away against Braga, after having been completely devoid of ideas.

The season before that, we were dumped out by Basel after disappointing campaign. Moyes has the same squad SAF did, people occasionally expect miracles.

No doubt we can play better football, but last season we had perhaps 3 exceptional performances, but those for the most part only lasted for one half. I can't recall us being great across even 60-70 minutes.

We've lost the same amount of games as City have, in total, and I think we've drawn 1 more, yet for some reason City are still going to win the league, and United are finished (according to a fair few rival fans!)

It's Liverpool's year isn't it?

Not if you listen to RGK, not that anyone in their right mind would do so.

I find it strange how Hart is a worry for England and Hodgson yet someone like Walcott who has been crap for most of his England career isn't, and plays on the right come rain or shine.

"We've lost the same amount of games as City have, in total, and I think we've drawn 1 more, yet for some reason City are still going to win the league, and United are finished (according to a fair few rival fans!)"

True, the moaning by some of your fans has been ridiculous! I think the reason we are getting away with it a bit more is down to the nature of your performances a bit and the fact we beat you. Take away the derby and it would be very different.

Aye, the derby was truly attrocious, but not unexpected. The manner of our defeats has been somewhat grating, though the only real 'shock' result has been against West Brom. I think people just expected Moyes to come in and shake up everything and get us playing decent football. Some people wanted him to come in, and in his first summer, sell Valencia, Young, Evra, etc...which would have been incredibly stupid of him, imo.

It's all a bit over the top really.

Joe Hart's goalkeeping talents have always been somewhat exaggerated. He is much too unpredictable.

Man. City is the most expensive "average" team is the history of football!