The fact is, under this regime I no longer feel the club values my support. Maybe they appreciate the money I spend, but my feelings as a supporter? I'm not convinced.
Football to me is about more than what division we are in. Christ, I was hooked at a reserve match, so it's not that what matters the most to me. All I see now is a club and directors so hungry for positive PR exposure that they have lost touch with the reason we all got involved - the Matchday experience.
------------------
Now then, to the best of my knowledge I've never met Champers but do you know what he's not on his own in his thinking.
I know supporters who feel they are no longer wanted by the club. Infact he was saying as far back as 4years ago. Town promote the family image, nothing wrong with that they are after all the future but in doing so they seemed to forget about everyone else.
The New loyalty scheme isn't really a loyalty scheme it's a 'let's see who spends the most with us scheme' I know Dean can't bankroll this club on his own but you have to treat fans more than just walking cash machines.
As a club we've got more partners than Peter Stringfellow could get through but what exactly do they bring to the club financially, the great coup of signing up Virgin Atlantic last year is practically non existent as far as I'm concerned.
Charity, another nail hit on the head by Champers. I know several fans that think all this fundraising is getting a bit OTT including myself. Ok raise money but how many things do we need to raise money for...Air Ambulance,Breakfast clubs, Reading diaries and now helping to fund a apprenticeship within the local business community...where will it stop?
We are a football club first and foremost!
Mm typical hooligans . Just because there at a football game they think they can tell good law abiding people with families to fook off .
I know supporters who feel they are no longer wanted by the club.
De dums . What do you want them to do for you. ? Suck ya c..k
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That's just the FM Lower deal Myth
Champers I won't add to what you have said apart from i really enjoyed our season in the basement !10 years ago. Loads of new grounds , Town being a 'top dog'. A good read.
Cheers Wethers
Yeah I think once the numbness disappeared and I got used to League Two it actually became a pretty fun season (Pawel Abbott back passes aside....!!). Cardiff was such a brilliant ending to the campaign too.
I'm certainly not someone who yearns for the Premier League. I just want to enjoy going to games again, and whether its for the visit of Manchester United or Morecambe, I'm really not fussed
champers,
Why do you have to stand up to question a decision? - seats are for sitting on and only an inconsiderate ignoramus would stand up and block the view of those sat behind him.
You wont be surprised to know I'm the guy who retorts with four simple words "sit down you w-nker"
Awkward situation this standing issue......
I've got 4 old blokes sit behind me in Kilner bank.....
They are always telling me to sit down, so I do....
I don't stand up all the time, just when I get excited, or in a nail biting last 5 minutes.....
If someone stands up in front of me, I stand up. The thought of telling them to sit done is just stupid.....
When in Rome....I say...
And go with the flow.......
Them that moan about people standing, are the same people that moan about the players passing the ball to each other. And the same that moan about us not passing the ball enough........
You couldn't make it up tbh.....
There are some right numbskulls on here
FFS Mirf...we've been through ALL this before,
Yeah, Seats are for sitting on..
The problem lies in having NO CHOICE BUT TO SIT darn
get it ?
Obviously not.
I have no problem whatso ever & respect the preference of people who wish to sit darn..& they should be able to do so in peace (& quiet as it turns out ) But.
I don't like sitting darn. & the evidence across the UK at clubs far bigger than Huddersfield Town & who attract far more vociferous/boisterous support than we ever did .......Actually cater for fans who wish to attend & support their team by having the
OPTION to sit or stand.
It's not hard to work out Mirf..(really it's not )
You tagging Champers comments with your reply & sticking in a 'dig' about going back 50 years was a right lame attempt at ridicule..
His explanation of how he 1st got attracted was a perfect example of the differences then & now. In the "match day experience" as we are all starting to call it.
And probably 'mirrors' the 1st experience of virtually 99% of all town fans and why they got 'hooked'.
Town are way behind (years) other clubs in these methods of operation..which is what we should be arguing about..
Straight forward question to ALL.
Things stay the way they are, or
Big changes, So that a home game has an atmosphere closer to that experienced by all the German fans week in week out....including the admission charges in relation to cost of living..
9 euro's per game to stand on that HUGE terrace at Dortmund (broken darn from a season ticket price).
And folk who like to remain seated don't get their view blocked by people standing up...why ? How !
Sorry, you'll have to work that one out for yourself.
terrific comments Champers...
& hence, Why I KNOW I'd be having a better time of it darn the Shay with like minded at this time..The division, the crowd numbers, even the standard..don't really matter if you are with like minded & you feel like you belong.
over & Out.
Champers, would like 1 year in the Premier league to get the money and the ridiculous 4 years of parachute payments. Apart from that watching a winning team, my favourite time at the new stadium was actually when we last in this division from 1995-2001. Some great Town teams including Vasen, Gorre, Stewart and the rest. .....or perhaps i was enjoying my youth in those years.
Anyway...
Mirf's at the checkout in ASDA, put most of the stuff through then remembers he's forgotten the 'Johnny's'..
But that's no problem, He ask's the girl if she can have some brought forward to the check out.
Yeah sure say's the lass ..What size would he be wanting ! Mirf wasn't sure, So she ask's him to drop his pants, She has a 'feel'..gives him a smile & calls out over the intercom,
"One box of LARGE condoms to check out 5"
Myth was behind...& thought (Like you would) I'll be having some of that
"oh...sorry love, I've forgotten my rubber johnny's, could you get some sent darn"..
'What size'
"er..I don't know"
So she has a feel...
"One box of medium condoms to check out 5 please"
Jacko is bringing up the rear, & reckons he ain't going to miss out on THIS ,
'Would you believe it...I've forgotten to pick up a pack of 'rubbers' ! you couldn't get some brought darn could you '?
'of course Sir..What size'
"Oh...Wouldn't have a clue () Could you" (his pants were already darn !
She had a right good fondle..... (oww yeah baby)
Then took to the intercom....
Mop & Bucket to Check out 5 please
Even my Mrs thought that was funny Darn...and she's a right grumpy twot in a morning!!
champers,
Why do you have to stand up to question a decision? - seats are for sitting on and only an inconsiderate ignoramus would stand up and block the view of those sat behind him.
Because I'm an "arm swinger" (why does football cause that involuntary reflex?!) and if I didn't stand there's a very good chance I would K.O. the poor beggar in front of me. Other than that I only stand for goals or when those in front of me leave me no choice. I'm not a serial offender, just depends what is going on at the time.
I'm the same at home though. I spend all game jumping up and down out of my chair....can't explain it!
my favourite time at the new stadium was actually when we last in this division from 1995-2001. Some great Town teams including Vasen, Gorre, Stewart and the rest.
100% agree. Still believe had we kept hold of Marcus til the end of that season we'd have taken Ipswich's spot in the Premier League
Have to say though,
after all that, we are always getting side tracked when we talk/discuss/argue/moan.demand this topic.
It's not just about standing .
It's the way the club is run & operated.
& despite a good few thinking everything is fine, There are probably just as many disillusioned.
And back to the thread content.
Now the shares are 'back'.. we yet again see Town fans going to be locked in, While the visiting minority get preferential treatment...Just this one aspect alone brought up by our top blogger Jacko requires a re-think.
No other club in the land would stand for the cops telling them the home fans have to wait behind in this fashion, It's ridiculous.
and just another aspect of many, that is seeing Fans start to seriously question the way OUR club is run.
This 'double dip' survey is another !
farcical
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Hilarious Darn...
I put a thread up on DATM..saying 'response from HTAFC required'..knowing they read them...bit of baiting really...but no one has explained HTAFC's role in this decision.
The consensus tho' is that WYP have to let the Leeds fans out of the South Stand at the end of the game because they think it is dangerous for them stood on the stairways and in the concourse..so they open the gates...then WYP say it is too dangerous for Leeds fans to be held on the steps at the back of the South Stand ..so they have to let them out, to their coaches etc..straight away..(you following this...) but then of course it's dangerous because there are 16,000 Town fans coming out of the Stadium at the same time...
So WYPolice basically set up a kettling operation to give Leeds fans priority departure.
The obvious fundamental flaw in all this, is how is it dangerous for Leeds fans to be held back in their seats for 10 minutes...the stand is designed to have 4,000 fans in it...Barnsley fans stayed for half an hour...stood on the stairways etc...4,000 of them ...
The only way fans are informed are by an article on the Town website, under the ticket prices (A*) for this game...no explanation, no nowt....
We deserve better than this....
My take on this is I also loved going as a kid and probably my favourite time was in the old stadium in the Cowshed and going to loads of away games, having a bovril and wagon wheel!
The thing is I think its the same reason people say "things arent as good as they used to be" about a range of things and thats nostalgia. I for example have always been into video games and certain ones from my youth I loved but if you play them now they are shockingly bad. I think its partly its great for the time, partly you know no better and partly because of what went with it. So from a football perspective when I was younger I would go to the ground with mates from school but we all moved on and now its me and my dad who have gone together, for the last 20 years probably. It doesnt make it any worse but it is different, I view it like being a dumb 18 year old getting wrecked in a club drinking stuff that tastes like [insert swear word here] just to get drunk. No way would I do that now but I enjoy nights out differently to the way I did and atleast there is less chance of a fight or getting arrested!
In the old ground as a kid it was sometimes terrible to watch, as you just couldnt. I was lucky we had a regular stanchon we were stood at and so I was raised off the ground but still sometimes you couldnt see the game. It was also a bit scary when the crowd would sway in the big stands and that was with not that many fans turning up. I personally prefer a modern stadium but I agree that we shouldnt just stick to what was right 20 years ago but look at best practice from around the world.
Some fans want to stand, some dont. The logical conclusion is to find a safe manner of doing that so those that want to can go there and those that dont can get a better view. The german example is valid although we are referencing teams who are in their top flight and competing at the highest levels in europe so their financial situation will be fundementally different. From a recent trip to Croke Park in Dublin I saw the terrace area used for the Gaelic Football and it was great. Second half the noise coming from it was defeaning but equally it was silent first half. I actually have had meetings with architects in Dublin that designed the stadium and they spent a long time sorting out the terrace, it was a major issue and had to be safe but also satisfy the fans. Therefore there are good best practice examples out there of how we could do it. For me the most logical solution is to rethink the family stand idea and build an adaptable terrace where that was. You could probably get a thousand or two people in there so that should cover the singing section and those who want it. They wouldnt have to adapt the roof as they would stick with the existing profile and so its probably a million quid at most to do.
They would have to move the family stand into one of the main stands but in some ways it makes more sense to integrate rather than segregate as it makes progression to an adult fan more logical and means as kids grow up they are not in the "kiddy stand" as it were.
I want to bring my son to the games in a few years time but have no intention of going in that stand so for me it serves no real purpose. We are in a social media age where connecting fans isnt done by a man in a costume but through targetted messaging.
By creating that terrace we would have fans behind the goal, sorted out the standing issue, gathered together a singing section and avoided the South Stand issue. We can moan all we like but the clubs hands will be tied by what the safety officer says and if they say its not safe to move visiting fans it wont happen. Things change and so it may be possible to do in time but as these officers are often more scared of being sued then making a tough decision it is unlikely.
The issue is who pays for it but as we are 40% owners now we could stump up for it for some concessions elsewhere. It would likely be popular with rugby fans and so its a win win. It could be designed in a way to be easily adapted for other events taking place and the existing infrastructure and services are already in place. From a safety perspective it would have controlled access, gone are the sneaking in days, everyone could have to have a season card to be in there so you would know exactly how many are in there and who is in there. From a policing perspective its as far from the aways fans as possible so makes sense, plus it is easier from a management perspective as you dont need as many stewards telling people to sit down!
Interesting and articulate post MB
I do honestly believe if a standing section was implemented in the manner that you suggested, and between one and two thousand tickets were available for those wanting to stand, it would sell out every single game. I also actually believe it would result in many being turned away.
Like you say, it would also appeal to the Rugby supporters also. I'm sure Darn, like me, has find memories of the atmosphere created in the old Thrum Hall "scratching shed".
Dean loves the positive PR more than anything else that his role entails, I'm certain of that. So how about becoming a pioneer in bringing safe standing zones back into football? It wouldn't just be Town fans who would laud him for it, he'd be a hero to all football fans who want a return of the terraces.
...at least canvass opinion first, show that he's on our side. Nobody would fault him if he failed having had a really good go.
At the moment everything just seems to have a poor excuse attached.
"Safety officer said no"
"WYP said no"
Well I say YES! You're the boss so start telling these "authority figures" that as you're paying them handsomely, to stop sitting on their hands and start looking for alternatives.
It might not be easy. It might even take 5 years to fully implement. But it's time for the so-called "fan" to show us that he at least cares about our gripes. We don't expect to be privy to a padded seat and a 5 course feed at every game, like he is, but for my £30 I want things tailored to suit my needs or I won't go, simple as that.
Some excellent posts on here.
I'm also in favour of a 'safe standing area'. Standing at a football game never killed anyone, negligence by those in charge that day did.
Town fans want a section behind the goals and at this moment in time it will have to be at the North end of the stadium. The South stand will never be a option to ourselves until the day that we are able to sell out the other stands, only then will the club look at splitting the South stand to maximise revenue as they have have done in recent years at the grounds of Stoke City and Swansea for example....it can be done but the real reason behind it all is money.
The North stand lower would cater for enough like minded people to stand at a game and would be cheaper than what the Kilner Bank is these days.
IMO the Family Stand has major flaws
A) it's too big(it's never full)
B) it's too far away from the pitch so the kids don't actually feel part of the game.
Shift them down the side of the pitch, either the North end of the Kilner Bank or the Lower tier of the Direct Golf Stand
It would need to be (and I hate this phrase) "a journey" to get a safe standing area in a UK ground. Right now they common wisdom is that all seater stadia are the only safe option for larger crowds. This has been challenged in other countries and there is evidence that providing atleast an element so terracing is safe. The trouble is there would need to be a coordinated movement to make it happen and not just from Town, we would need a dozen clubs with us to make it happen.
The reason for that is if it is not considered safe (regardless of whether it is or not) we wouldnt get a safety certificate and then it could not be occupied and would cause problems with insurance so KSDL would never allow it. What has to happen first is, like with the acceptance of goal line technology, the powers that be need a new study to say it can be safe. This then needs to be disseminated down to a local level and then you would pick a test case to prove it works. Town could fit that role perfectly if the family stand option was viable as you could test it out there with limited capacity and if it is rejected you still have spare capacity within the ground to accommodate those displaced fans from the family stand.
Our terrace would have access and egress from the sides and with controlled numbers and so the "crush" situation isnt possible as used to be the case when fans flooded in from the back. As we have a temporanry stand there already it would be simple to use a temporary terrace on the existing footings and not require any major modifications. There is nice safe area on the side of where the terrace would be to congregate safely and to leave in a controlled manner. Plus if the fans there get out of hand its easier to contain them away from the away fans as they are futher away.
We no longer pen fans in and apart from to end of season invasion, people are very rarely on the pitch these days. With say 2,000 fans it is a small enough number that in an absolute emergency you could very quickly get people away safely.
I personally have no interest in going in the terrace but as some do I think its fair to give it a shot and as Champers mentioned it could be very popular.
Singing sections do tend to raise the volume in a stadium and having it right behind the goal could atleast be a bit more intimidating to the away team than seeing a bunch of kids and our mascot (although that Andy Booth was was scary! Who though of that and is it now dead and burried??!!).
From a marketing perpective its an easy win, you call it our "kop" or something like that. You can even sell special "kop" scarves and gear, make it a place people want to go and feel connected.
It wouldnt take any more maintenance than any temporary stand in reality as it would be pretty robust and anyone trashing the place would be thrown out by stewards.
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Getting 'steamed up'
Page 2 of 3
posted on 9/10/13
The fact is, under this regime I no longer feel the club values my support. Maybe they appreciate the money I spend, but my feelings as a supporter? I'm not convinced.
Football to me is about more than what division we are in. Christ, I was hooked at a reserve match, so it's not that what matters the most to me. All I see now is a club and directors so hungry for positive PR exposure that they have lost touch with the reason we all got involved - the Matchday experience.
------------------
Now then, to the best of my knowledge I've never met Champers but do you know what he's not on his own in his thinking.
I know supporters who feel they are no longer wanted by the club. Infact he was saying as far back as 4years ago. Town promote the family image, nothing wrong with that they are after all the future but in doing so they seemed to forget about everyone else.
The New loyalty scheme isn't really a loyalty scheme it's a 'let's see who spends the most with us scheme' I know Dean can't bankroll this club on his own but you have to treat fans more than just walking cash machines.
As a club we've got more partners than Peter Stringfellow could get through but what exactly do they bring to the club financially, the great coup of signing up Virgin Atlantic last year is practically non existent as far as I'm concerned.
Charity, another nail hit on the head by Champers. I know several fans that think all this fundraising is getting a bit OTT including myself. Ok raise money but how many things do we need to raise money for...Air Ambulance,Breakfast clubs, Reading diaries and now helping to fund a apprenticeship within the local business community...where will it stop?
We are a football club first and foremost!
posted on 9/10/13
Mm typical hooligans . Just because there at a football game they think they can tell good law abiding people with families to fook off .
posted on 9/10/13
I know supporters who feel they are no longer wanted by the club.
De dums . What do you want them to do for you. ? Suck ya c..k
posted on 9/10/13
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posted on 9/10/13
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posted on 9/10/13
That's just the FM Lower deal Myth
posted on 9/10/13
Champers I won't add to what you have said apart from i really enjoyed our season in the basement !10 years ago. Loads of new grounds , Town being a 'top dog'. A good read.
posted on 9/10/13
Cheers Wethers
Yeah I think once the numbness disappeared and I got used to League Two it actually became a pretty fun season (Pawel Abbott back passes aside....!!). Cardiff was such a brilliant ending to the campaign too.
I'm certainly not someone who yearns for the Premier League. I just want to enjoy going to games again, and whether its for the visit of Manchester United or Morecambe, I'm really not fussed
posted on 9/10/13
champers,
Why do you have to stand up to question a decision? - seats are for sitting on and only an inconsiderate ignoramus would stand up and block the view of those sat behind him.
You wont be surprised to know I'm the guy who retorts with four simple words "sit down you w-nker"
posted on 9/10/13
Awkward situation this standing issue......
I've got 4 old blokes sit behind me in Kilner bank.....
They are always telling me to sit down, so I do....
I don't stand up all the time, just when I get excited, or in a nail biting last 5 minutes.....
If someone stands up in front of me, I stand up. The thought of telling them to sit done is just stupid.....
When in Rome....I say...
And go with the flow.......
Them that moan about people standing, are the same people that moan about the players passing the ball to each other. And the same that moan about us not passing the ball enough........
You couldn't make it up tbh.....
posted on 9/10/13
There are some right numbskulls on here
FFS Mirf...we've been through ALL this before,
Yeah, Seats are for sitting on..
The problem lies in having NO CHOICE BUT TO SIT darn
get it ?
Obviously not.
I have no problem whatso ever & respect the preference of people who wish to sit darn..& they should be able to do so in peace (& quiet as it turns out ) But.
I don't like sitting darn. & the evidence across the UK at clubs far bigger than Huddersfield Town & who attract far more vociferous/boisterous support than we ever did .......Actually cater for fans who wish to attend & support their team by having the
OPTION to sit or stand.
It's not hard to work out Mirf..(really it's not )
You tagging Champers comments with your reply & sticking in a 'dig' about going back 50 years was a right lame attempt at ridicule..
His explanation of how he 1st got attracted was a perfect example of the differences then & now. In the "match day experience" as we are all starting to call it.
And probably 'mirrors' the 1st experience of virtually 99% of all town fans and why they got 'hooked'.
Town are way behind (years) other clubs in these methods of operation..which is what we should be arguing about..
Straight forward question to ALL.
Things stay the way they are, or
Big changes, So that a home game has an atmosphere closer to that experienced by all the German fans week in week out....including the admission charges in relation to cost of living..
9 euro's per game to stand on that HUGE terrace at Dortmund (broken darn from a season ticket price).
And folk who like to remain seated don't get their view blocked by people standing up...why ? How !
Sorry, you'll have to work that one out for yourself.
terrific comments Champers...
& hence, Why I KNOW I'd be having a better time of it darn the Shay with like minded at this time..The division, the crowd numbers, even the standard..don't really matter if you are with like minded & you feel like you belong.
over & Out.
posted on 9/10/13
Champers, would like 1 year in the Premier league to get the money and the ridiculous 4 years of parachute payments. Apart from that watching a winning team, my favourite time at the new stadium was actually when we last in this division from 1995-2001. Some great Town teams including Vasen, Gorre, Stewart and the rest. .....or perhaps i was enjoying my youth in those years.
posted on 9/10/13
Anyway...
Mirf's at the checkout in ASDA, put most of the stuff through then remembers he's forgotten the 'Johnny's'..
But that's no problem, He ask's the girl if she can have some brought forward to the check out.
Yeah sure say's the lass ..What size would he be wanting ! Mirf wasn't sure, So she ask's him to drop his pants, She has a 'feel'..gives him a smile & calls out over the intercom,
"One box of LARGE condoms to check out 5"
Myth was behind...& thought (Like you would) I'll be having some of that
"oh...sorry love, I've forgotten my rubber johnny's, could you get some sent darn"..
'What size'
"er..I don't know"
So she has a feel...
"One box of medium condoms to check out 5 please"
Jacko is bringing up the rear, & reckons he ain't going to miss out on THIS ,
'Would you believe it...I've forgotten to pick up a pack of 'rubbers' ! you couldn't get some brought darn could you '?
'of course Sir..What size'
"Oh...Wouldn't have a clue () Could you" (his pants were already darn !
She had a right good fondle..... (oww yeah baby)
Then took to the intercom....
Mop & Bucket to Check out 5 please
posted on 9/10/13
NICE.
posted on 10/10/13
Even my Mrs thought that was funny Darn...and she's a right grumpy twot in a morning!!
posted on 10/10/13
champers,
Why do you have to stand up to question a decision? - seats are for sitting on and only an inconsiderate ignoramus would stand up and block the view of those sat behind him.
Because I'm an "arm swinger" (why does football cause that involuntary reflex?!) and if I didn't stand there's a very good chance I would K.O. the poor beggar in front of me. Other than that I only stand for goals or when those in front of me leave me no choice. I'm not a serial offender, just depends what is going on at the time.
I'm the same at home though. I spend all game jumping up and down out of my chair....can't explain it!
posted on 10/10/13
my favourite time at the new stadium was actually when we last in this division from 1995-2001. Some great Town teams including Vasen, Gorre, Stewart and the rest.
100% agree. Still believe had we kept hold of Marcus til the end of that season we'd have taken Ipswich's spot in the Premier League
posted on 10/10/13
Have to say though,
after all that, we are always getting side tracked when we talk/discuss/argue/moan.demand this topic.
It's not just about standing .
It's the way the club is run & operated.
& despite a good few thinking everything is fine, There are probably just as many disillusioned.
And back to the thread content.
Now the shares are 'back'.. we yet again see Town fans going to be locked in, While the visiting minority get preferential treatment...Just this one aspect alone brought up by our top blogger Jacko requires a re-think.
No other club in the land would stand for the cops telling them the home fans have to wait behind in this fashion, It's ridiculous.
and just another aspect of many, that is seeing Fans start to seriously question the way OUR club is run.
This 'double dip' survey is another !
farcical
posted on 10/10/13
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posted on 10/10/13
Hilarious Darn...
I put a thread up on DATM..saying 'response from HTAFC required'..knowing they read them...bit of baiting really...but no one has explained HTAFC's role in this decision.
The consensus tho' is that WYP have to let the Leeds fans out of the South Stand at the end of the game because they think it is dangerous for them stood on the stairways and in the concourse..so they open the gates...then WYP say it is too dangerous for Leeds fans to be held on the steps at the back of the South Stand ..so they have to let them out, to their coaches etc..straight away..(you following this...) but then of course it's dangerous because there are 16,000 Town fans coming out of the Stadium at the same time...
So WYPolice basically set up a kettling operation to give Leeds fans priority departure.
The obvious fundamental flaw in all this, is how is it dangerous for Leeds fans to be held back in their seats for 10 minutes...the stand is designed to have 4,000 fans in it...Barnsley fans stayed for half an hour...stood on the stairways etc...4,000 of them ...
The only way fans are informed are by an article on the Town website, under the ticket prices (A*) for this game...no explanation, no nowt....
We deserve better than this....
posted on 10/10/13
My take on this is I also loved going as a kid and probably my favourite time was in the old stadium in the Cowshed and going to loads of away games, having a bovril and wagon wheel!
The thing is I think its the same reason people say "things arent as good as they used to be" about a range of things and thats nostalgia. I for example have always been into video games and certain ones from my youth I loved but if you play them now they are shockingly bad. I think its partly its great for the time, partly you know no better and partly because of what went with it. So from a football perspective when I was younger I would go to the ground with mates from school but we all moved on and now its me and my dad who have gone together, for the last 20 years probably. It doesnt make it any worse but it is different, I view it like being a dumb 18 year old getting wrecked in a club drinking stuff that tastes like [insert swear word here] just to get drunk. No way would I do that now but I enjoy nights out differently to the way I did and atleast there is less chance of a fight or getting arrested!
In the old ground as a kid it was sometimes terrible to watch, as you just couldnt. I was lucky we had a regular stanchon we were stood at and so I was raised off the ground but still sometimes you couldnt see the game. It was also a bit scary when the crowd would sway in the big stands and that was with not that many fans turning up. I personally prefer a modern stadium but I agree that we shouldnt just stick to what was right 20 years ago but look at best practice from around the world.
Some fans want to stand, some dont. The logical conclusion is to find a safe manner of doing that so those that want to can go there and those that dont can get a better view. The german example is valid although we are referencing teams who are in their top flight and competing at the highest levels in europe so their financial situation will be fundementally different. From a recent trip to Croke Park in Dublin I saw the terrace area used for the Gaelic Football and it was great. Second half the noise coming from it was defeaning but equally it was silent first half. I actually have had meetings with architects in Dublin that designed the stadium and they spent a long time sorting out the terrace, it was a major issue and had to be safe but also satisfy the fans. Therefore there are good best practice examples out there of how we could do it. For me the most logical solution is to rethink the family stand idea and build an adaptable terrace where that was. You could probably get a thousand or two people in there so that should cover the singing section and those who want it. They wouldnt have to adapt the roof as they would stick with the existing profile and so its probably a million quid at most to do.
They would have to move the family stand into one of the main stands but in some ways it makes more sense to integrate rather than segregate as it makes progression to an adult fan more logical and means as kids grow up they are not in the "kiddy stand" as it were.
I want to bring my son to the games in a few years time but have no intention of going in that stand so for me it serves no real purpose. We are in a social media age where connecting fans isnt done by a man in a costume but through targetted messaging.
By creating that terrace we would have fans behind the goal, sorted out the standing issue, gathered together a singing section and avoided the South Stand issue. We can moan all we like but the clubs hands will be tied by what the safety officer says and if they say its not safe to move visiting fans it wont happen. Things change and so it may be possible to do in time but as these officers are often more scared of being sued then making a tough decision it is unlikely.
The issue is who pays for it but as we are 40% owners now we could stump up for it for some concessions elsewhere. It would likely be popular with rugby fans and so its a win win. It could be designed in a way to be easily adapted for other events taking place and the existing infrastructure and services are already in place. From a safety perspective it would have controlled access, gone are the sneaking in days, everyone could have to have a season card to be in there so you would know exactly how many are in there and who is in there. From a policing perspective its as far from the aways fans as possible so makes sense, plus it is easier from a management perspective as you dont need as many stewards telling people to sit down!
posted on 10/10/13
Interesting and articulate post MB
I do honestly believe if a standing section was implemented in the manner that you suggested, and between one and two thousand tickets were available for those wanting to stand, it would sell out every single game. I also actually believe it would result in many being turned away.
Like you say, it would also appeal to the Rugby supporters also. I'm sure Darn, like me, has find memories of the atmosphere created in the old Thrum Hall "scratching shed".
Dean loves the positive PR more than anything else that his role entails, I'm certain of that. So how about becoming a pioneer in bringing safe standing zones back into football? It wouldn't just be Town fans who would laud him for it, he'd be a hero to all football fans who want a return of the terraces.
posted on 10/10/13
...at least canvass opinion first, show that he's on our side. Nobody would fault him if he failed having had a really good go.
At the moment everything just seems to have a poor excuse attached.
"Safety officer said no"
"WYP said no"
Well I say YES! You're the boss so start telling these "authority figures" that as you're paying them handsomely, to stop sitting on their hands and start looking for alternatives.
It might not be easy. It might even take 5 years to fully implement. But it's time for the so-called "fan" to show us that he at least cares about our gripes. We don't expect to be privy to a padded seat and a 5 course feed at every game, like he is, but for my £30 I want things tailored to suit my needs or I won't go, simple as that.
posted on 10/10/13
Some excellent posts on here.
I'm also in favour of a 'safe standing area'. Standing at a football game never killed anyone, negligence by those in charge that day did.
Town fans want a section behind the goals and at this moment in time it will have to be at the North end of the stadium. The South stand will never be a option to ourselves until the day that we are able to sell out the other stands, only then will the club look at splitting the South stand to maximise revenue as they have have done in recent years at the grounds of Stoke City and Swansea for example....it can be done but the real reason behind it all is money.
The North stand lower would cater for enough like minded people to stand at a game and would be cheaper than what the Kilner Bank is these days.
IMO the Family Stand has major flaws
A) it's too big(it's never full)
B) it's too far away from the pitch so the kids don't actually feel part of the game.
Shift them down the side of the pitch, either the North end of the Kilner Bank or the Lower tier of the Direct Golf Stand
posted on 10/10/13
It would need to be (and I hate this phrase) "a journey" to get a safe standing area in a UK ground. Right now they common wisdom is that all seater stadia are the only safe option for larger crowds. This has been challenged in other countries and there is evidence that providing atleast an element so terracing is safe. The trouble is there would need to be a coordinated movement to make it happen and not just from Town, we would need a dozen clubs with us to make it happen.
The reason for that is if it is not considered safe (regardless of whether it is or not) we wouldnt get a safety certificate and then it could not be occupied and would cause problems with insurance so KSDL would never allow it. What has to happen first is, like with the acceptance of goal line technology, the powers that be need a new study to say it can be safe. This then needs to be disseminated down to a local level and then you would pick a test case to prove it works. Town could fit that role perfectly if the family stand option was viable as you could test it out there with limited capacity and if it is rejected you still have spare capacity within the ground to accommodate those displaced fans from the family stand.
Our terrace would have access and egress from the sides and with controlled numbers and so the "crush" situation isnt possible as used to be the case when fans flooded in from the back. As we have a temporanry stand there already it would be simple to use a temporary terrace on the existing footings and not require any major modifications. There is nice safe area on the side of where the terrace would be to congregate safely and to leave in a controlled manner. Plus if the fans there get out of hand its easier to contain them away from the away fans as they are futher away.
We no longer pen fans in and apart from to end of season invasion, people are very rarely on the pitch these days. With say 2,000 fans it is a small enough number that in an absolute emergency you could very quickly get people away safely.
I personally have no interest in going in the terrace but as some do I think its fair to give it a shot and as Champers mentioned it could be very popular.
Singing sections do tend to raise the volume in a stadium and having it right behind the goal could atleast be a bit more intimidating to the away team than seeing a bunch of kids and our mascot (although that Andy Booth was was scary! Who though of that and is it now dead and burried??!!).
From a marketing perpective its an easy win, you call it our "kop" or something like that. You can even sell special "kop" scarves and gear, make it a place people want to go and feel connected.
It wouldnt take any more maintenance than any temporary stand in reality as it would be pretty robust and anyone trashing the place would be thrown out by stewards.
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