comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 2 minutes ago
Jenius you're overanaylsing things, tactics and style doesn't matter if all the players are off form. When Theo was out injured Ozil was brilliant and Giroud was scoring. For the last few months Ozil's form dipped, Alexis, Theo, Giroud, Ramsey, Ox all been poor... impossible to win the league if most of the players are out of form.
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I disagree. Either we're the unluckiest team in the world, and our players coincidentally keep going on horrible runs of form at the same time as each-other (crucial times of the season too) or, there's something about how we play that means it falls apart when all the pieces aren't perfectly lined up.
Actually, regardless of my comments on Jenius' post about strikers above, I believe most of our current style/performance issues stem from Cazorla not being in the team. And that Coq/Caz partnership was something Wenger accidentally stumbled upon too.
It just feels like there's no plan anymore.
Our worst form of the season has come when most of our players have been fit. (sorry I don't count perma-crocks like Jack, Rosicky and Arteta) We were in better form when Coq, Sanchez and Walcott were all out than we are now.
comment by Gillespie Rd. (U18361)
posted 4 minutes ago
“We will not give up the Premier League, we will fight until the end,” Wenger, 66, said.
“Just to remind you, we have beaten Leicester twice so we have done our job against them. People have to look at other teams more, not just us on that front.The Premier League is far from being over.”
Great. It's 2007 all over again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a shame we weren't fighting against Utd and Swansea.
comment by Yohan's Kebab Van (U8691)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Gillespie Rd. (U18361)
posted 4 minutes ago
“We will not give up the Premier League, we will fight until the end,” Wenger, 66, said.
“Just to remind you, we have beaten Leicester twice so we have done our job against them. People have to look at other teams more, not just us on that front.The Premier League is far from being over.”
Great. It's 2007 all over again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a shame we weren't fighting against Utd and Swansea.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We did the double over eventual winners United, with RvP ending the season as our top scorer on 13 goals.
We might even end up on 68 points.
What you mean we won a league game at Old Trafford?
comment by Yohan's Kebab Van (U8691)
posted 1 minute ago
What you mean we won a league game at Old Trafford?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Won 1- 0.
Adebayor in the 86th minute.
Jenius you're overanaylsing things, tactics and style doesn't matter if all the players are off form.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The problem is 8bit, you have to try and work out why players lose confidence/form. Players are humans. All players have strengths and weaknesses. If you play systems which do not help players succeed they lose confidence and slowly their form goes with it because they start questioning themselves. In my opinion you have to find combinations of players where strengths are maximised and the players cover for each other weaknesses.
Thats you have to make sure the backups, U21s, U19s etc all play the same way. And players cover for each other. Generally younger players play as backups because although they can play the same way, they cannot maintain consistency over longer periods because they lack experience. So they make an ideal back up to come in for the first team player while he is injured/tired and then they are happy to back to the bench as they gain experience.
If you however keep on changing style you create problems. For example, Ozil, Alexis started playing a slightly different way with Theo. Ozil dropped a bit deeper, Alexis a bit more central behind Theo. As a result we create an immensely creative spine. Santi-->Ozil---->Alexis--->Theo. Theo's runs took players wide creating space for Alexis to be far more effective. Theo got injured and Giroud came back in. Wenger was itching for that move anyway because lets face it, he protects him a lot. But what happened to that spine? Ozil now had to redo his game. At the beginning it worked very well because opposing teams had not adjusted to no pace in the striker position so they played deep and allowed Giroud to have the ball around the box which are one of his strengths.
But who fecked that up? Pulis and WBA. They worked out that the space teams were giving Arsenal was not needed anymore because Walcott was not making runs in behind. Giroud does not have pace to run in behind so its better to squeeze the space (push up the defensive line). As a result Ozil suddenly ran out of space to play because Giroud and Ozil were now suddenly playing in the same space. Giroud was playing deeper and so Ozil was forced to drop even deeper right into a midfield battle with the opposing holding player where frankly he is scared to tread. Thats why Real Madrid always played him wide so that Ozil didn't have to get involved in closing players down and tackling them.
Slowly Ozil lost confidence because he was being asked to take on a midfield battle which his weakness.
I give you a long analysis of why Ramsey has lost form as well. But really thats something Wenger should be doing to justify his £8m a year.
comment by Lexington Sanchez 125.2 (U8879)
posted 1 hour, 49 minutes ago
Can't believe there are STILL supporters blaming injuries for what looks like another poor showing in the league.
You need to be looking at the cause, rather than the symptoms.
Patient: "Doctor, I have yet another cold"
Doctor: "What are you doing to take care of yourself"
Patient: "Same as I always do"
Doctor: "Well, there's your problem"
Sorry, but I can't make it any simpler than that. Crayons be any help to you, HK?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think as well as Lex that you can't have the injury excuse again. Still an explanation and in some games we missing key players (most Coquelin and Santi Cazorla).
With all the injuries we stayed competitive though.
In my view there is something deep at Arsenal not to have the right focus when it matters.
To blame it alone on one player feels not right to me. We failed collectively again.
Forget the footballing analysis. In the final analysis the Manager takes the glory and the blame. If he can't work out effective tactics with the players he has brought in, then he is incompetent. Sorry.
Jenius agree with a lot of what you're saying, but if we have Giroud with two quick players alongside him I don't think it's much of a problem. All our fast players, Ox, Walcott, Alexis and Welbeck have been injured or off form though. The thing is we didn't need to be great to win the league this year, if Alexis or Walcott were in pre injury form and Giroud was finishing chances he was in the first half of the season we could have got results even if we're not playing well.
Like Skins said our biggest miss is Cazorla imo, just because he can control the midfield so well and Ramsey can't do it at all. And if we can control the game we can get Ozil on the ball more. With Elneny and Welbeck hopefully we start improving, we still have an outside chance of the title if we can go on a run.
8bit the problem with Giroud and two fast players alongside is that their starting positions are deeper. Therefore they are battling a full back and a center back before they can get onto goal. The back line of the opposition does not need to drop back. Which is what you are trying to force them to do. Its no surprise that Welbeck created the goal against Spurs by running in behind their back line. That forced the Spurs back line to respect his pace and drop deeper creating space for Alexis/Ozil and as a result we took control of the game. Spurs could no longer press in our half because Ozil used the space as an out ball to counter attack Spurs at will. This why we didn't look in control for the first 30 mins but as soon as Welbeck made that run and created something they had to respect his pace.
In fact look at the number of wide attackers that Giroud has seen off. Arshavin, Gervinho, Podolski, Oxo, Theo, and now Alexis who is also having a rough time. Lack of pace in the striking does not only affect Ozil but our wide attackers.
There are other problems as well for example Coq's slow distribution and lack of pace in our defence. But this is just an example why players affect the form of their team mates. Its not in isolation. Football maybe a team game but the wrong individuals especially in the spine of the team can alter tactics you are trying to employ.
"Its no surprise that Welbeck created the goal against Spurs by running in behind their back line. "
He created that chance because he outplayed Spurs defender in one to one. Something that Theo cant do. So why do you want him to replace Giroud when we dont have the midfield to bring Theo into play. You run out of ideas why Giroud is not good enough to play for Arsenal.
I want anyone with pace and movement to replace Giroud.
Walcott, Welbeck, Aubameyang. Don't care. As long he has pace and movement.
Giroud and the team were playing well and winning half of this season and half of 13/14, he seems to get judged and rated when he's completely off form. If he's scoring he's a quality player because he bring so many other things as well, but he can't sustain his form for a whole season and when it goes we struggle.
We looked better when Theo was there but he's been inconsistent and technically limited ever since he joined and he's showing why he's not the solution. Same with Ox, they're inconsistent players with little character, it's not down to anyone else imo.
If it was up to me I'd get rid of Theo and Ox, keep Campbell as back up and buy a right winger. Keep Welbeck, Giroud as a plan B and get a pacey skillful striker.
We looked better when Theo was there but he's been inconsistent and technically limited ever since he joined and he's showing why he's not the solution.
How many games did Theo play upfront brilliantly that you come to that judgement. In the end it wasnt Walcott that kept us into the title race, it was Giroud. And he also was key that we had the chance to play against Barca in the CL. People have short memories and write epic comments on this forum to suit their argument. Unfortunately it hasnt got to do with the reality.
Not many GT, due to injury or inconsistency. That's why I respect Giroud because when he's off form he still gives everything and does the dirty work.
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 2 minutes ago
Not many GT, due to injury or inconsistency. That's why I respect Giroud because when he's off form he still gives everything and does the dirty work.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I know he is not an elite striker, 8bit.
What I cant stand is that everything that goes against us is blamed on the striker front. We know his limitations.
It's correct that we cant afford to have a striker that doesnt score for 10 games.
Analysing the games though it's also the fact that he wasnt at the end of most of the clear cut chances we somehow created. Add to that that he was unlucky in some situations. Why cant people rate or at least respect him for the different work he adds to the team?
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 18 hours, 1 minute ago
We've got better squads than Leicester and Spurs, why did we need new players to win the league. If our players were playing anywhere near top form we'd be clear at the top.
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Seriously 8bit??
""On paper" we needed to buy in a couple of players. There is genuinely no excuse here. Why on earth would anyone have looked out our team in the summer, looked at the last ten years and not have simply assumed they had to buy a couple of players, purely down to the fact that we would likely lose more than our fair share to injury?? "
Did you miss that part of my comment? Looking at our squad in the summer. The most conservative of estimations (say guessing we'd have at least 5 key injuries throughout the season) would still have mad it clear, we needed reinforcement. List the squad then to yourself. Then assuming we have to lose five throughout the season, it's apparent, quickly, that our roster was likely not sufficient. And that's guessing/wishing we'd had HALF as many injuries as previous seasons.
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 14 hours, 46 minutes ago
8bit the problem with Giroud and two fast players alongside is that their starting positions are deeper. Therefore they are battling a full back and a center back before they can get onto goal. The back line of the opposition does not need to drop back. Which is what you are trying to force them to do. Its no surprise that Welbeck created the goal against Spurs by running in behind their back line. That forced the Spurs back line to respect his pace and drop deeper creating space for Alexis/Ozil and as a result we took control of the game. Spurs could no longer press in our half because Ozil used the space as an out ball to counter attack Spurs at will. This why we didn't look in control for the first 30 mins but as soon as Welbeck made that run and created something they had to respect his pace.
In fact look at the number of wide attackers that Giroud has seen off. Arshavin, Gervinho, Podolski, Oxo, Theo, and now Alexis who is also having a rough time. Lack of pace in the striking does not only affect Ozil but our wide attackers.
There are other problems as well for example Coq's slow distribution and lack of pace in our defence. But this is just an example why players affect the form of their team mates. Its not in isolation. Football maybe a team game but the wrong individuals especially in the spine of the team can alter tactics you are trying to employ.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Trying to explain to this lot how Theo being taken out of the middle has has an overall detrimental effect on all our other key players, is like beating your head against a brick wall mate. I know, I've been trying to say the same thing to people for 4/5 weeks. Nobody's hearing it. I could swear none of them watched the first half of the season the way most talk. It's as though nobody saw how the team played with a pacey stiker and nobody saw/posted any of the numerous comments and articles we saw at the time, talking about how different we looked as a team. For me it was clear the minute we lost Theo up top. With Giroud in, the whole team has to be "on song" AND he has to be scoring, for us to look like title contenders. We looked title contenders immediately with Walcott up top, even when he was missing 3 and four chances a game.
Our entire midfield is actually tailored for a pacey striker whom will make runs in behind. Alexis and Ozil in particular thrive on the space that affords them. It's little wonder that we struggle for results when trying to get the same from them with a slow striker whom can't make runs in behind.
Think of Arsenal like a Lamborghini. The striker is the engine. Giroud is an adequate, reliable 2.0L. engine. No matter what you do to the Lambo, that engine is just not big enough to power the car. Theo on the other hand, is a raging over-tweaked 5.0, fuel injected, turbo charged beast of and engine. Though unreliable, when you put him in the Lambo, results are somewhat comprehensive performance wise.
Welbeck is the same model of engine as Theo, only less tweaked, slightly slower but far more reliable all around. Here's hoping anyway.
In everyone's defence, I will say that Theo hasn't helped his/our case. I ranted for weeks for him to be started up top, claiming it would have the effect of us looking like the start of the season whether he scored or not. He got his start, I was convinced he at least make his usual runs, pulling defences apart. Sat to watch the match relishing the anticipation of him proving to everyone he should have gone straight back.
And what's he do? SSSSWEET F. A Didn't even run anywhere good. Sorry but he needed to grab that by the scruff of the neck and state his case "on the pitch" and he flopped. That's his bad and his bad only. Because he IS a "Big enough" player to influence the entire tide of a game. He needs to go "balls out" and start acting like one when he's playing.
comment by Pep The Final Straw!! (Formerly WB2) (U8276)
posted 4 hours, 1 minute ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 18 hours, 1 minute ago
We've got better squads than Leicester and Spurs, why did we need new players to win the league. If our players were playing anywhere near top form we'd be clear at the top.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Seriously 8bit??
""On paper" we needed to buy in a couple of players. There is genuinely no excuse here. Why on earth would anyone have looked out our team in the summer, looked at the last ten years and not have simply assumed they had to buy a couple of players, purely down to the fact that we would likely lose more than our fair share to injury?? "
Did you miss that part of my comment? Looking at our squad in the summer. The most conservative of estimations (say guessing we'd have at least 5 key injuries throughout the season) would still have mad it clear, we needed reinforcement. List the squad then to yourself. Then assuming we have to lose five throughout the season, it's apparent, quickly, that our roster was likely not sufficient. And that's guessing/wishing we'd had HALF as many injuries as previous seasons.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Our worst form has come when we don't have many injuries. Not saying we couldn't do with more players but we could have easily won the league with the squad we have. Do you think we're getting the most out of the players we have, or that if Alexis, Ozil, Giroud, Walcott, Ox, Ramsey, were playing to full potential it wouldn't get us extra points?
comment by Pep The Final Straw!! (Formerly WB2) (U8276)
posted 1 hour, 27 minutes ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 14 hours, 46 minutes ago
8bit the problem with Giroud and two fast players alongside is that their starting positions are deeper. Therefore they are battling a full back and a center back before they can get onto goal. The back line of the opposition does not need to drop back. Which is what you are trying to force them to do. Its no surprise that Welbeck created the goal against Spurs by running in behind their back line. That forced the Spurs back line to respect his pace and drop deeper creating space for Alexis/Ozil and as a result we took control of the game. Spurs could no longer press in our half because Ozil used the space as an out ball to counter attack Spurs at will. This why we didn't look in control for the first 30 mins but as soon as Welbeck made that run and created something they had to respect his pace.
In fact look at the number of wide attackers that Giroud has seen off. Arshavin, Gervinho, Podolski, Oxo, Theo, and now Alexis who is also having a rough time. Lack of pace in the striking does not only affect Ozil but our wide attackers.
There are other problems as well for example Coq's slow distribution and lack of pace in our defence. But this is just an example why players affect the form of their team mates. Its not in isolation. Football maybe a team game but the wrong individuals especially in the spine of the team can alter tactics you are trying to employ.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Trying to explain to this lot how Theo being taken out of the middle has has an overall detrimental effect on all our other key players, is like beating your head against a brick wall mate. I know, I've been trying to say the same thing to people for 4/5 weeks. Nobody's hearing it. I could swear none of them watched the first half of the season the way most talk. It's as though nobody saw how the team played with a pacey stiker and nobody saw/posted any of the numerous comments and articles we saw at the time, talking about how different we looked as a team. For me it was clear the minute we lost Theo up top. With Giroud in, the whole team has to be "on song" AND he has to be scoring, for us to look like title contenders. We looked title contenders immediately with Walcott up top, even when he was missing 3 and four chances a game.
Our entire midfield is actually tailored for a pacey striker whom will make runs in behind. Alexis and Ozil in particular thrive on the space that affords them. It's little wonder that we struggle for results when trying to get the same from them with a slow striker whom can't make runs in behind.
Think of Arsenal like a Lamborghini. The striker is the engine. Giroud is an adequate, reliable 2.0L. engine. No matter what you do to the Lambo, that engine is just not big enough to power the car. Theo on the other hand, is a raging over-tweaked 5.0, fuel injected, turbo charged beast of and engine. Though unreliable, when you put him in the Lambo, results are somewhat comprehensive performance wise.
Welbeck is the same model of engine as Theo, only less tweaked, slightly slower but far more reliable all around. Here's hoping anyway.
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Theo in top form yes... Theo in this form is useless and nothing more than a sprinter and when he's off form he disappears and hides too. Giroud still contributes things when he's off form.
and articles we saw at the time, talking about how different we looked as a team. For me it was clear the minute we lost Theo up top. With Giroud in, the whole team has to be "on song" AND he has to be scoring, for us to look like title contenders. We looked title contenders immediately with Walcott up top, even when he was missing 3 and four chances a game.
Our entire midfield is actually tailored for a pacey striker whom will make runs in behind. Alexis and Ozil in particular thrive on the space that affords them. It's little wonder that we struggle for results when trying to get the same from them with a slow striker whom can't make runs in behind.
Only want to make comment on this part, WB2. You're completely wrong when you're stating that our midfield is tailored for a pacey striker. It hasnt got to do with pace. Pace alone dont wins you games. You need a midfield to pass with accurancy. Theo is not that kind of striker that can outplay a defender. He runs alongside to defender and actually beat them with pace. Therefore he needs that pass from midfield. The same our wingers. That is not happen at the moment because our set up in midfield has absolute no one who can do that.
Who is saying that you cant play on counter and pace with Giroud. We did that against Barcelona and in games in PL as well. I think at Palace for example.
If you want to replace Giroud for the sake of it then you need a new striker in the mould of Suarez who can actually outplay a defender and get behind the defense in general. Theo and I think Welbs are not that kind of striker.
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One-off Season?
Page 3 of 3
posted on 7/3/16
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 2 minutes ago
Jenius you're overanaylsing things, tactics and style doesn't matter if all the players are off form. When Theo was out injured Ozil was brilliant and Giroud was scoring. For the last few months Ozil's form dipped, Alexis, Theo, Giroud, Ramsey, Ox all been poor... impossible to win the league if most of the players are out of form.
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I disagree. Either we're the unluckiest team in the world, and our players coincidentally keep going on horrible runs of form at the same time as each-other (crucial times of the season too) or, there's something about how we play that means it falls apart when all the pieces aren't perfectly lined up.
Actually, regardless of my comments on Jenius' post about strikers above, I believe most of our current style/performance issues stem from Cazorla not being in the team. And that Coq/Caz partnership was something Wenger accidentally stumbled upon too.
It just feels like there's no plan anymore.
posted on 7/3/16
Our worst form of the season has come when most of our players have been fit. (sorry I don't count perma-crocks like Jack, Rosicky and Arteta) We were in better form when Coq, Sanchez and Walcott were all out than we are now.
posted on 7/3/16
comment by Gillespie Rd. (U18361)
posted 4 minutes ago
“We will not give up the Premier League, we will fight until the end,” Wenger, 66, said.
“Just to remind you, we have beaten Leicester twice so we have done our job against them. People have to look at other teams more, not just us on that front.The Premier League is far from being over.”
Great. It's 2007 all over again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a shame we weren't fighting against Utd and Swansea.
posted on 7/3/16
comment by Yohan's Kebab Van (U8691)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Gillespie Rd. (U18361)
posted 4 minutes ago
“We will not give up the Premier League, we will fight until the end,” Wenger, 66, said.
“Just to remind you, we have beaten Leicester twice so we have done our job against them. People have to look at other teams more, not just us on that front.The Premier League is far from being over.”
Great. It's 2007 all over again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a shame we weren't fighting against Utd and Swansea.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We did the double over eventual winners United, with RvP ending the season as our top scorer on 13 goals.
We might even end up on 68 points.
posted on 7/3/16
What you mean we won a league game at Old Trafford?
posted on 7/3/16
comment by Yohan's Kebab Van (U8691)
posted 1 minute ago
What you mean we won a league game at Old Trafford?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Won 1- 0.
Adebayor in the 86th minute.
posted on 7/3/16
Jenius you're overanaylsing things, tactics and style doesn't matter if all the players are off form.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The problem is 8bit, you have to try and work out why players lose confidence/form. Players are humans. All players have strengths and weaknesses. If you play systems which do not help players succeed they lose confidence and slowly their form goes with it because they start questioning themselves. In my opinion you have to find combinations of players where strengths are maximised and the players cover for each other weaknesses.
Thats you have to make sure the backups, U21s, U19s etc all play the same way. And players cover for each other. Generally younger players play as backups because although they can play the same way, they cannot maintain consistency over longer periods because they lack experience. So they make an ideal back up to come in for the first team player while he is injured/tired and then they are happy to back to the bench as they gain experience.
If you however keep on changing style you create problems. For example, Ozil, Alexis started playing a slightly different way with Theo. Ozil dropped a bit deeper, Alexis a bit more central behind Theo. As a result we create an immensely creative spine. Santi-->Ozil---->Alexis--->Theo. Theo's runs took players wide creating space for Alexis to be far more effective. Theo got injured and Giroud came back in. Wenger was itching for that move anyway because lets face it, he protects him a lot. But what happened to that spine? Ozil now had to redo his game. At the beginning it worked very well because opposing teams had not adjusted to no pace in the striker position so they played deep and allowed Giroud to have the ball around the box which are one of his strengths.
But who fecked that up? Pulis and WBA. They worked out that the space teams were giving Arsenal was not needed anymore because Walcott was not making runs in behind. Giroud does not have pace to run in behind so its better to squeeze the space (push up the defensive line). As a result Ozil suddenly ran out of space to play because Giroud and Ozil were now suddenly playing in the same space. Giroud was playing deeper and so Ozil was forced to drop even deeper right into a midfield battle with the opposing holding player where frankly he is scared to tread. Thats why Real Madrid always played him wide so that Ozil didn't have to get involved in closing players down and tackling them.
Slowly Ozil lost confidence because he was being asked to take on a midfield battle which his weakness.
I give you a long analysis of why Ramsey has lost form as well. But really thats something Wenger should be doing to justify his £8m a year.
posted on 7/3/16
comment by Lexington Sanchez 125.2 (U8879)
posted 1 hour, 49 minutes ago
Can't believe there are STILL supporters blaming injuries for what looks like another poor showing in the league.
You need to be looking at the cause, rather than the symptoms.
Patient: "Doctor, I have yet another cold"
Doctor: "What are you doing to take care of yourself"
Patient: "Same as I always do"
Doctor: "Well, there's your problem"
Sorry, but I can't make it any simpler than that. Crayons be any help to you, HK?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think as well as Lex that you can't have the injury excuse again. Still an explanation and in some games we missing key players (most Coquelin and Santi Cazorla).
With all the injuries we stayed competitive though.
In my view there is something deep at Arsenal not to have the right focus when it matters.
To blame it alone on one player feels not right to me. We failed collectively again.
posted on 7/3/16
Forget the footballing analysis. In the final analysis the Manager takes the glory and the blame. If he can't work out effective tactics with the players he has brought in, then he is incompetent. Sorry.
posted on 7/3/16
Jenius agree with a lot of what you're saying, but if we have Giroud with two quick players alongside him I don't think it's much of a problem. All our fast players, Ox, Walcott, Alexis and Welbeck have been injured or off form though. The thing is we didn't need to be great to win the league this year, if Alexis or Walcott were in pre injury form and Giroud was finishing chances he was in the first half of the season we could have got results even if we're not playing well.
Like Skins said our biggest miss is Cazorla imo, just because he can control the midfield so well and Ramsey can't do it at all. And if we can control the game we can get Ozil on the ball more. With Elneny and Welbeck hopefully we start improving, we still have an outside chance of the title if we can go on a run.
posted on 7/3/16
8bit the problem with Giroud and two fast players alongside is that their starting positions are deeper. Therefore they are battling a full back and a center back before they can get onto goal. The back line of the opposition does not need to drop back. Which is what you are trying to force them to do. Its no surprise that Welbeck created the goal against Spurs by running in behind their back line. That forced the Spurs back line to respect his pace and drop deeper creating space for Alexis/Ozil and as a result we took control of the game. Spurs could no longer press in our half because Ozil used the space as an out ball to counter attack Spurs at will. This why we didn't look in control for the first 30 mins but as soon as Welbeck made that run and created something they had to respect his pace.
In fact look at the number of wide attackers that Giroud has seen off. Arshavin, Gervinho, Podolski, Oxo, Theo, and now Alexis who is also having a rough time. Lack of pace in the striking does not only affect Ozil but our wide attackers.
There are other problems as well for example Coq's slow distribution and lack of pace in our defence. But this is just an example why players affect the form of their team mates. Its not in isolation. Football maybe a team game but the wrong individuals especially in the spine of the team can alter tactics you are trying to employ.
posted on 7/3/16
"Its no surprise that Welbeck created the goal against Spurs by running in behind their back line. "
He created that chance because he outplayed Spurs defender in one to one. Something that Theo cant do. So why do you want him to replace Giroud when we dont have the midfield to bring Theo into play. You run out of ideas why Giroud is not good enough to play for Arsenal.
posted on 7/3/16
I want anyone with pace and movement to replace Giroud.
Walcott, Welbeck, Aubameyang. Don't care. As long he has pace and movement.
posted on 7/3/16
Giroud and the team were playing well and winning half of this season and half of 13/14, he seems to get judged and rated when he's completely off form. If he's scoring he's a quality player because he bring so many other things as well, but he can't sustain his form for a whole season and when it goes we struggle.
We looked better when Theo was there but he's been inconsistent and technically limited ever since he joined and he's showing why he's not the solution. Same with Ox, they're inconsistent players with little character, it's not down to anyone else imo.
If it was up to me I'd get rid of Theo and Ox, keep Campbell as back up and buy a right winger. Keep Welbeck, Giroud as a plan B and get a pacey skillful striker.
posted on 7/3/16
We looked better when Theo was there but he's been inconsistent and technically limited ever since he joined and he's showing why he's not the solution.
How many games did Theo play upfront brilliantly that you come to that judgement. In the end it wasnt Walcott that kept us into the title race, it was Giroud. And he also was key that we had the chance to play against Barca in the CL. People have short memories and write epic comments on this forum to suit their argument. Unfortunately it hasnt got to do with the reality.
posted on 7/3/16
Not many GT, due to injury or inconsistency. That's why I respect Giroud because when he's off form he still gives everything and does the dirty work.
posted on 7/3/16
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 2 minutes ago
Not many GT, due to injury or inconsistency. That's why I respect Giroud because when he's off form he still gives everything and does the dirty work.
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I know he is not an elite striker, 8bit.
What I cant stand is that everything that goes against us is blamed on the striker front. We know his limitations.
It's correct that we cant afford to have a striker that doesnt score for 10 games.
Analysing the games though it's also the fact that he wasnt at the end of most of the clear cut chances we somehow created. Add to that that he was unlucky in some situations. Why cant people rate or at least respect him for the different work he adds to the team?
posted on 7/3/16
posted on 8/3/16
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 18 hours, 1 minute ago
We've got better squads than Leicester and Spurs, why did we need new players to win the league. If our players were playing anywhere near top form we'd be clear at the top.
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Seriously 8bit??
""On paper" we needed to buy in a couple of players. There is genuinely no excuse here. Why on earth would anyone have looked out our team in the summer, looked at the last ten years and not have simply assumed they had to buy a couple of players, purely down to the fact that we would likely lose more than our fair share to injury?? "
Did you miss that part of my comment? Looking at our squad in the summer. The most conservative of estimations (say guessing we'd have at least 5 key injuries throughout the season) would still have mad it clear, we needed reinforcement. List the squad then to yourself. Then assuming we have to lose five throughout the season, it's apparent, quickly, that our roster was likely not sufficient. And that's guessing/wishing we'd had HALF as many injuries as previous seasons.
posted on 8/3/16
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 14 hours, 46 minutes ago
8bit the problem with Giroud and two fast players alongside is that their starting positions are deeper. Therefore they are battling a full back and a center back before they can get onto goal. The back line of the opposition does not need to drop back. Which is what you are trying to force them to do. Its no surprise that Welbeck created the goal against Spurs by running in behind their back line. That forced the Spurs back line to respect his pace and drop deeper creating space for Alexis/Ozil and as a result we took control of the game. Spurs could no longer press in our half because Ozil used the space as an out ball to counter attack Spurs at will. This why we didn't look in control for the first 30 mins but as soon as Welbeck made that run and created something they had to respect his pace.
In fact look at the number of wide attackers that Giroud has seen off. Arshavin, Gervinho, Podolski, Oxo, Theo, and now Alexis who is also having a rough time. Lack of pace in the striking does not only affect Ozil but our wide attackers.
There are other problems as well for example Coq's slow distribution and lack of pace in our defence. But this is just an example why players affect the form of their team mates. Its not in isolation. Football maybe a team game but the wrong individuals especially in the spine of the team can alter tactics you are trying to employ.
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Trying to explain to this lot how Theo being taken out of the middle has has an overall detrimental effect on all our other key players, is like beating your head against a brick wall mate. I know, I've been trying to say the same thing to people for 4/5 weeks. Nobody's hearing it. I could swear none of them watched the first half of the season the way most talk. It's as though nobody saw how the team played with a pacey stiker and nobody saw/posted any of the numerous comments and articles we saw at the time, talking about how different we looked as a team. For me it was clear the minute we lost Theo up top. With Giroud in, the whole team has to be "on song" AND he has to be scoring, for us to look like title contenders. We looked title contenders immediately with Walcott up top, even when he was missing 3 and four chances a game.
Our entire midfield is actually tailored for a pacey striker whom will make runs in behind. Alexis and Ozil in particular thrive on the space that affords them. It's little wonder that we struggle for results when trying to get the same from them with a slow striker whom can't make runs in behind.
Think of Arsenal like a Lamborghini. The striker is the engine. Giroud is an adequate, reliable 2.0L. engine. No matter what you do to the Lambo, that engine is just not big enough to power the car. Theo on the other hand, is a raging over-tweaked 5.0, fuel injected, turbo charged beast of and engine. Though unreliable, when you put him in the Lambo, results are somewhat comprehensive performance wise.
Welbeck is the same model of engine as Theo, only less tweaked, slightly slower but far more reliable all around. Here's hoping anyway.
posted on 8/3/16
In everyone's defence, I will say that Theo hasn't helped his/our case. I ranted for weeks for him to be started up top, claiming it would have the effect of us looking like the start of the season whether he scored or not. He got his start, I was convinced he at least make his usual runs, pulling defences apart. Sat to watch the match relishing the anticipation of him proving to everyone he should have gone straight back.
And what's he do? SSSSWEET F. A Didn't even run anywhere good. Sorry but he needed to grab that by the scruff of the neck and state his case "on the pitch" and he flopped. That's his bad and his bad only. Because he IS a "Big enough" player to influence the entire tide of a game. He needs to go "balls out" and start acting like one when he's playing.
posted on 8/3/16
comment by Pep The Final Straw!! (Formerly WB2) (U8276)
posted 4 hours, 1 minute ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 18 hours, 1 minute ago
We've got better squads than Leicester and Spurs, why did we need new players to win the league. If our players were playing anywhere near top form we'd be clear at the top.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Seriously 8bit??
""On paper" we needed to buy in a couple of players. There is genuinely no excuse here. Why on earth would anyone have looked out our team in the summer, looked at the last ten years and not have simply assumed they had to buy a couple of players, purely down to the fact that we would likely lose more than our fair share to injury?? "
Did you miss that part of my comment? Looking at our squad in the summer. The most conservative of estimations (say guessing we'd have at least 5 key injuries throughout the season) would still have mad it clear, we needed reinforcement. List the squad then to yourself. Then assuming we have to lose five throughout the season, it's apparent, quickly, that our roster was likely not sufficient. And that's guessing/wishing we'd had HALF as many injuries as previous seasons.
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Our worst form has come when we don't have many injuries. Not saying we couldn't do with more players but we could have easily won the league with the squad we have. Do you think we're getting the most out of the players we have, or that if Alexis, Ozil, Giroud, Walcott, Ox, Ramsey, were playing to full potential it wouldn't get us extra points?
posted on 8/3/16
comment by Pep The Final Straw!! (Formerly WB2) (U8276)
posted 1 hour, 27 minutes ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 14 hours, 46 minutes ago
8bit the problem with Giroud and two fast players alongside is that their starting positions are deeper. Therefore they are battling a full back and a center back before they can get onto goal. The back line of the opposition does not need to drop back. Which is what you are trying to force them to do. Its no surprise that Welbeck created the goal against Spurs by running in behind their back line. That forced the Spurs back line to respect his pace and drop deeper creating space for Alexis/Ozil and as a result we took control of the game. Spurs could no longer press in our half because Ozil used the space as an out ball to counter attack Spurs at will. This why we didn't look in control for the first 30 mins but as soon as Welbeck made that run and created something they had to respect his pace.
In fact look at the number of wide attackers that Giroud has seen off. Arshavin, Gervinho, Podolski, Oxo, Theo, and now Alexis who is also having a rough time. Lack of pace in the striking does not only affect Ozil but our wide attackers.
There are other problems as well for example Coq's slow distribution and lack of pace in our defence. But this is just an example why players affect the form of their team mates. Its not in isolation. Football maybe a team game but the wrong individuals especially in the spine of the team can alter tactics you are trying to employ.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Trying to explain to this lot how Theo being taken out of the middle has has an overall detrimental effect on all our other key players, is like beating your head against a brick wall mate. I know, I've been trying to say the same thing to people for 4/5 weeks. Nobody's hearing it. I could swear none of them watched the first half of the season the way most talk. It's as though nobody saw how the team played with a pacey stiker and nobody saw/posted any of the numerous comments and articles we saw at the time, talking about how different we looked as a team. For me it was clear the minute we lost Theo up top. With Giroud in, the whole team has to be "on song" AND he has to be scoring, for us to look like title contenders. We looked title contenders immediately with Walcott up top, even when he was missing 3 and four chances a game.
Our entire midfield is actually tailored for a pacey striker whom will make runs in behind. Alexis and Ozil in particular thrive on the space that affords them. It's little wonder that we struggle for results when trying to get the same from them with a slow striker whom can't make runs in behind.
Think of Arsenal like a Lamborghini. The striker is the engine. Giroud is an adequate, reliable 2.0L. engine. No matter what you do to the Lambo, that engine is just not big enough to power the car. Theo on the other hand, is a raging over-tweaked 5.0, fuel injected, turbo charged beast of and engine. Though unreliable, when you put him in the Lambo, results are somewhat comprehensive performance wise.
Welbeck is the same model of engine as Theo, only less tweaked, slightly slower but far more reliable all around. Here's hoping anyway.
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Theo in top form yes... Theo in this form is useless and nothing more than a sprinter and when he's off form he disappears and hides too. Giroud still contributes things when he's off form.
posted on 8/3/16
and articles we saw at the time, talking about how different we looked as a team. For me it was clear the minute we lost Theo up top. With Giroud in, the whole team has to be "on song" AND he has to be scoring, for us to look like title contenders. We looked title contenders immediately with Walcott up top, even when he was missing 3 and four chances a game.
Our entire midfield is actually tailored for a pacey striker whom will make runs in behind. Alexis and Ozil in particular thrive on the space that affords them. It's little wonder that we struggle for results when trying to get the same from them with a slow striker whom can't make runs in behind.
Only want to make comment on this part, WB2. You're completely wrong when you're stating that our midfield is tailored for a pacey striker. It hasnt got to do with pace. Pace alone dont wins you games. You need a midfield to pass with accurancy. Theo is not that kind of striker that can outplay a defender. He runs alongside to defender and actually beat them with pace. Therefore he needs that pass from midfield. The same our wingers. That is not happen at the moment because our set up in midfield has absolute no one who can do that.
Who is saying that you cant play on counter and pace with Giroud. We did that against Barcelona and in games in PL as well. I think at Palace for example.
If you want to replace Giroud for the sake of it then you need a new striker in the mould of Suarez who can actually outplay a defender and get behind the defense in general. Theo and I think Welbs are not that kind of striker.
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