Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Excellent article RR. Nice to read something on here that someone has really put some serious thought into for a change.
And I absolutely hope you are wrong! It could be a great opportunity for Russia to demonstrate to the wider world that it is a welcoming and hospitable country, and that its people don't want to follow the isolationist course Putin's regime has steered the nation down. But as you say, there are various indicators suggesting that the conditions are for from perfect for the hosting of a major international sporting event within Russia's borders at present.
There is also the small matter of the possibility that Russia may end up ejected from Euro 2016 having played only two group matches. Surely under those circumstances FIFA would have to take a very serious look at whether Russia is a safe enough place for hundreds of thousands of foreign football fans of all nationalities, races, religions and sexual persuasions to descend upon at once.
I like St Petersburg, beautiful city
It would be a brave move to ban the next hosts. What if it happens again is Russia? Ban the hosts?
I can't disagree with anything in the OP and I also love Russia, though I have only visited a couple of times. I said on here the other day that I wouldn't fancy going to a football tournament there or even a single match.
Saying that, there were lots of fears about World Cups in South Africa and Brazil but they were fine.
Good insight RR, thanks for the article.
I think alot of it will go without a hitch, most teams will have a nice time and I would hope the locals would embrace them and the ultras leave them alone.
I really do fear for any England fans that go there though, this will be ramped up further if Russia do get kicked out of Euro 2016 and England get the blame (in the Russian media). I am massively concerned for this week, let alone Russia 2018.
Also, how do you see it playing out if Ukraine make it to WC2018?
Surely questions would be asked of the safety of the fans if they did indeed go to Russia?
I don't see them ever changing hosts, there's far to much invested now, but the whole point a country hosts a World Cup is for the financial gain and money it brings.
The Russia FA have a lot to do. I don't think these fans would stop, they don't really seem interested in the tournament as much as they are fighting.
Yes, if Russia are kicked out this week the levels of rage and denial will skyrocket.
As JSPC remarks, England fans in particular should be wary of going.
Having said that, Russia is still a great place to visit (minus replica shirts and provocative chanting) outside football tournaments.
Excellent article OP. I am mainly ignorant of Russian society, but yours appears an insightful and accurate summation. Thanks.
I agree with the sentiments of your OP RR and I know it's not a like for like comparison but they held the Winter Olympics not that long ago and it's a comparable, big international event.
whilst there wasn't any hooligan trouble (who ever heard of figure skating ultra's?) the cultural elements that you write about were all prevalent then in much the same as they would be for a world cup. I accept that the Olympics were all held in the one city and the WC moves around considerably but apart from the few protesters (rightly protesting the new anti gay laws at the time) that were arrested there didn't seem to be any trouble with the international crowds.
Good post.
I don't think they should take the World Cup off them. It was FIFA policy to take it around the world so regardless of corruption both Russia and an Arabian country was due the opportunity.
If they are not prepared and it descends into a national embarrassment the Russian people will know what to do, it would be a shame that a country as historic and beautiful as parts of Russia is be reduced by the stereotype of racist, nationalist thugs.
"I'm no longer optimistic "
Having been to Moscow and felt the infamous warmth of the Russian folk, I know I'll never step foot there again. Just not a culture for me.
Good article RR. I hope you are wrong...
One thing I would say in response to the following (edited) comment....'Western' governments and media are not much better in this respect!
"The West was openly talked about as 'the enemy' and was quickly blamed for any misfortune"
comment by Darkphoenix (U11503)
posted 28 minutes ago
Surely questions would be asked of the safety of the fans if they did indeed go to Russia?
I don't see them ever changing hosts, there's far to much invested now, but the whole point a country hosts a World Cup is for the financial gain and money it brings.
The Russia FA have a lot to do. I don't think these fans would stop, they don't really seem interested in the tournament as much as they are fighting.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Russian FA, the police, local authorities and government have a very major job on their hands.
Love Russia, the people and the food there. However they have large 'firms' like in England during the 80s who want to target English to prove they're the 'best'. Let's see what the country plans for the World Cup before condemning it.
Even if you remove them as hosts, how do you think these 'firms' would react. I don't see them suddenly deciding to give this up and start helping out the underprivileged and less fortunate full time. These neanderthals are crazy.
the food
__________
Really? I found it ok but a bit strange. Whipped cream and jam on my steak for example...And hardly any veg anywhere.
Absolutely awful article. One star from me
TOOR, I'll be clear I'm not condemning anyone. Just sharing my views of the socio-political context, and how this looks like limiting both the will and the ability of the authorities to take on the fascist fringe. I'll also be clear that I'm only concerned about a fringe, not 99% of Russians.
Totes jokes. Good article. All the things you mention are things I worried about too. Not to mention the ageing Aeroflot fleet which might just be one plane too far for some unlucky fans.
If Russia are kicked out this week I can't see Russia being stripped of their World Cup and the usual words will come out about how it will all be so different in 2018 but I can't see how trouble will be stopped on home territory. Like you say, don't go. The best way to voice displeasure is to stay away.
Never been to Russia, and probably won't now that Putin is trying his best to turn it into it's cold war glories.
Good article RR.
In the 90s I met a Zenit supporter and self-proclaimed hooligan at a party. He was excited when he learned I was English and spoke with sincere reverence for us - the original hooligans.
This subculture, to complicate the picture, has deep roots in Russia and the tribalism wasn't always associated with nationalism. At that point Russia was relatively friendly with the West.
comment by redmisty (U7556)
posted 6 minutes ago
the food
__________
Really? I found it ok but a bit strange. Whipped cream and jam on my steak for example...And hardly any veg anywhere.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Everything tastes of dill.
Top Article.
In fact, I think I love you man.
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2018: don't go
Page 1 of 2
posted on 14/6/16
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 14/6/16
Excellent article RR. Nice to read something on here that someone has really put some serious thought into for a change.
And I absolutely hope you are wrong! It could be a great opportunity for Russia to demonstrate to the wider world that it is a welcoming and hospitable country, and that its people don't want to follow the isolationist course Putin's regime has steered the nation down. But as you say, there are various indicators suggesting that the conditions are for from perfect for the hosting of a major international sporting event within Russia's borders at present.
There is also the small matter of the possibility that Russia may end up ejected from Euro 2016 having played only two group matches. Surely under those circumstances FIFA would have to take a very serious look at whether Russia is a safe enough place for hundreds of thousands of foreign football fans of all nationalities, races, religions and sexual persuasions to descend upon at once.
posted on 14/6/16
I like St Petersburg, beautiful city
posted on 14/6/16
It would be a brave move to ban the next hosts. What if it happens again is Russia? Ban the hosts?
posted on 14/6/16
I can't disagree with anything in the OP and I also love Russia, though I have only visited a couple of times. I said on here the other day that I wouldn't fancy going to a football tournament there or even a single match.
Saying that, there were lots of fears about World Cups in South Africa and Brazil but they were fine.
posted on 14/6/16
Good insight RR, thanks for the article.
I think alot of it will go without a hitch, most teams will have a nice time and I would hope the locals would embrace them and the ultras leave them alone.
I really do fear for any England fans that go there though, this will be ramped up further if Russia do get kicked out of Euro 2016 and England get the blame (in the Russian media). I am massively concerned for this week, let alone Russia 2018.
Also, how do you see it playing out if Ukraine make it to WC2018?
posted on 14/6/16
Surely questions would be asked of the safety of the fans if they did indeed go to Russia?
I don't see them ever changing hosts, there's far to much invested now, but the whole point a country hosts a World Cup is for the financial gain and money it brings.
The Russia FA have a lot to do. I don't think these fans would stop, they don't really seem interested in the tournament as much as they are fighting.
posted on 14/6/16
Yes, if Russia are kicked out this week the levels of rage and denial will skyrocket.
As JSPC remarks, England fans in particular should be wary of going.
Having said that, Russia is still a great place to visit (minus replica shirts and provocative chanting) outside football tournaments.
posted on 14/6/16
Excellent article OP. I am mainly ignorant of Russian society, but yours appears an insightful and accurate summation. Thanks.
posted on 14/6/16
I agree with the sentiments of your OP RR and I know it's not a like for like comparison but they held the Winter Olympics not that long ago and it's a comparable, big international event.
whilst there wasn't any hooligan trouble (who ever heard of figure skating ultra's?) the cultural elements that you write about were all prevalent then in much the same as they would be for a world cup. I accept that the Olympics were all held in the one city and the WC moves around considerably but apart from the few protesters (rightly protesting the new anti gay laws at the time) that were arrested there didn't seem to be any trouble with the international crowds.
posted on 14/6/16
Good post.
I don't think they should take the World Cup off them. It was FIFA policy to take it around the world so regardless of corruption both Russia and an Arabian country was due the opportunity.
If they are not prepared and it descends into a national embarrassment the Russian people will know what to do, it would be a shame that a country as historic and beautiful as parts of Russia is be reduced by the stereotype of racist, nationalist thugs.
posted on 14/6/16
"I'm no longer optimistic "
Having been to Moscow and felt the infamous warmth of the Russian folk, I know I'll never step foot there again. Just not a culture for me.
posted on 14/6/16
Do expand Busby.
posted on 14/6/16
Good article RR. I hope you are wrong...
One thing I would say in response to the following (edited) comment....'Western' governments and media are not much better in this respect!
"The West was openly talked about as 'the enemy' and was quickly blamed for any misfortune"
posted on 14/6/16
comment by Darkphoenix (U11503)
posted 28 minutes ago
Surely questions would be asked of the safety of the fans if they did indeed go to Russia?
I don't see them ever changing hosts, there's far to much invested now, but the whole point a country hosts a World Cup is for the financial gain and money it brings.
The Russia FA have a lot to do. I don't think these fans would stop, they don't really seem interested in the tournament as much as they are fighting.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Russian FA, the police, local authorities and government have a very major job on their hands.
posted on 14/6/16
Love Russia, the people and the food there. However they have large 'firms' like in England during the 80s who want to target English to prove they're the 'best'. Let's see what the country plans for the World Cup before condemning it.
posted on 14/6/16
Even if you remove them as hosts, how do you think these 'firms' would react. I don't see them suddenly deciding to give this up and start helping out the underprivileged and less fortunate full time. These neanderthals are crazy.
posted on 14/6/16
the food
__________
Really? I found it ok but a bit strange. Whipped cream and jam on my steak for example...And hardly any veg anywhere.
posted on 14/6/16
Absolutely awful article. One star from me
posted on 14/6/16
TOOR, I'll be clear I'm not condemning anyone. Just sharing my views of the socio-political context, and how this looks like limiting both the will and the ability of the authorities to take on the fascist fringe. I'll also be clear that I'm only concerned about a fringe, not 99% of Russians.
posted on 14/6/16
Totes jokes. Good article. All the things you mention are things I worried about too. Not to mention the ageing Aeroflot fleet which might just be one plane too far for some unlucky fans.
If Russia are kicked out this week I can't see Russia being stripped of their World Cup and the usual words will come out about how it will all be so different in 2018 but I can't see how trouble will be stopped on home territory. Like you say, don't go. The best way to voice displeasure is to stay away.
posted on 14/6/16
Never been to Russia, and probably won't now that Putin is trying his best to turn it into it's cold war glories.
Good article RR.
posted on 14/6/16
In the 90s I met a Zenit supporter and self-proclaimed hooligan at a party. He was excited when he learned I was English and spoke with sincere reverence for us - the original hooligans.
This subculture, to complicate the picture, has deep roots in Russia and the tribalism wasn't always associated with nationalism. At that point Russia was relatively friendly with the West.
posted on 14/6/16
comment by redmisty (U7556)
posted 6 minutes ago
the food
__________
Really? I found it ok but a bit strange. Whipped cream and jam on my steak for example...And hardly any veg anywhere.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Everything tastes of dill.
posted on 14/6/16
Top Article.
In fact, I think I love you man.
Page 1 of 2