comment by redmisty (U7556)
posted 4 minutes ago
the food
__________
Really? I found it ok but a bit strange. Whipped cream and jam on my steak for example...And hardly any veg anywhere.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What? Whipped cream and jam? Never heard of it. In fact never heard of steak at all in Russia.
Regardless I meant Russian food, not a slab of meat.
Things like borst, stroganoff, blinchiki, olivii,sharkoye, amongst others. Great alcohol too.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by redmisty (U7556)
posted 6 minutes ago
the food
__________
Really? I found it ok but a bit strange. Whipped cream and jam on my steak for example...And hardly any veg anywhere.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Everything tastes of dill.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mash with dill, love it.
the food
__________
Really? I found it ok but a bit strange. Whipped cream and jam on my steak for example...And hardly any veg anywhere.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Everything tastes of dill.
_________________
That's true. They kept that off my steak though at least. Not sure I could get used to having 1-2 shots of vodka before every meal/course...I've since learned that wasn't mandatory though. Oh well.
comment by redmisty (U7556)
posted 26 seconds ago
the food
__________
Really? I found it ok but a bit strange. Whipped cream and jam on my steak for example...And hardly any veg anywhere.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Everything tastes of dill.
_________________
That's true. They kept that off my steak though at least. Not sure I could get used to having 1-2 shots of vodka before every meal/course...I've since learned that wasn't mandatory though. Oh well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Loved drinking vodka with snacks like gerkins and pieces of meat which were mostly salted fat.
Regardless I meant Russian food, not a slab of meat.
___________________
Two slabs of meat. They did it to my duck as well.
strogs and borst were good though. Anyway, it take a lot more than cream or jam to put me off my slabs of meat so it was all good.
TOOR I can drink proper Russian vodka with anything! I never realised that we get the paint stripper version over here.
What kind of bed-wetting cretin one-stars an article like this?
Come on Admins, out the prikk, so we can slip some polonium in his drink.
Did any of us warn off foreigners going to euro 96
I've often wondered whether it's the same person one starring every article.
RBW, I have no idea. Foreigners could have had legitimate discussions about safety and English hooliganism before 1996. I'd like to think it's clear that my article isn't coming from a point of view that Russians are bad and we're good.
The only time I spent in Russia was a stop over on the way to Japan in '91 and being stuck for a day because it was in the middle of the coup and my Mum got asked by ITN her views and had no idea what they were on about. All I remember was everyone looked so depressed but I've since learnt that Russians aren't told to smile to people the way the west (or more specifically America are).
Very good post Russian, I'm glad you managed to get a Guardian article in there too.
On the subject of smiles, there's a bigger distinction between public and private behaviour in Russia. People don't tend to engage with strangers as much as we do. On the other hand, they only need to make acquaintance in order to bare their soul to someone.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Fascist, nationalistic politics is rising all across Europe and even in the US. Hardly something unique to Russia. I think people ignore the fact that travelling hooligans acting up abroad are highly unlikely to destroy their own tournament with the same behaviour and neither would Russian security permit that in a huge tournament with plenty of propaganda value. There is a risk factor involved certainly and a few things could go wrong, but I'm utterly convinced Russia would host a good tournament.
I'm not sure either how they could host the Moscow Olympics at the height of the Cold War tensions, but somehow, their society is meant to have got much worse and incapable of hosting international matches.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 59 minutes ago
comment by redmisty (U7556)
posted 6 minutes ago
the food
__________
Really? I found it ok but a bit strange. Whipped cream and jam on my steak for example...And hardly any veg anywhere.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Everything tastes of dill.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's exactly how I remember it. Dill is the taste of Russia.
I agree that what's happening can be seen in the context of broader international trends. At the same time there are always unique local conditions worth taking into consideration.
I set out why I don't think the authorities can entirely control the radical right in Russia - particularly outside the stadiums - having allowed it to grow and act with a large degree of impunity for the last decade or more.
As for Moscow 1980, tensions were much more restricted to a geopolitical level back then and society was far more tightly controlled. Also, there is no violent subculture ANYWHERE associated with the Olympics / athletics as there is with football. I don't think any useful comparisons can be made.
comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 37 minutes ago
Feel sorry for the fans from African nations that will go there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
After the Euros, I doubt we'll see half show up for a WC there. The pure hatred of Africans and the humiliation they have to bear whilst playing in Russia is horrible. I wouldn't go the the WC in Russia if you paid my 1st class air faire, free suites stocked with top shelf booze and food, push hay and the lot. I'd feel safer at the 1936 Olympics.
Have no intention of going
I set out why I don't think the authorities can entirely control the radical right in Russia - particularly outside the stadiums - having allowed it to grow and act with a large degree of impunity for the last decade or more.
---------------------------------
But that would be speculative given the fact security measures would be far more stringent and expansive at an international tournament. The authorities may lack the political will to tackle the thug culture, but I'm pretty certain they wouldn't want to embarrass themselves at a World Cup.
Look, there is nothing in Russian society which isn't closely mirrored in Ukrainian society.A lot of these same fears were expressed at the last Poland/Ukraine Euros. I remember a particularly sickening video with some East Asian guys getting beaten by thugs in the stadium and fears about rampant racism and hooliganism. The tournament was fairly hitch free. South Africa's violent crime rate is second to none in the world and there was a lot of hysteria about the safety of travelling fans. Some funny guys were selling "stab-proof vests". Again, it was only notable for boring footy and was well organized. The overwhelming majority of the time, these fears are unfounded.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
SJB
Of course any statement about the likelihood of violence at a future tournament, including yours, is 100% speculative. I'd love to be proven wrong. I'm merely pointing at some factors that are specific to Russia that have destroyed my initial optimism about the tournament. I don't want to pull rank here, but it does seem you are going not on local knowledge, but merely the truism that 'the dangers are always exaggerated'.
A significant difference between Russia and Ukraine is that the latter wasn't in the midst of anti-Western / anti-foreign hysteria with extreme right-wing groups operating with a degree of tolerance and even sponsorship from the state. This creates quite a tension with the aspiration for the WC to be pulled off without a hitch or bad publicity. It's also bad for Putin if he totally alienates the hardline nationalist wing of his support, which has a momentum and degree of power of its own right. I don't think there were comparable dynamics in Ukraine four years ago, even though attitudes to race and the hooligan subculture were there.
As I say, I very much hope I'm wrong and that my 2010 prediction comes to pass.
I think people ignore the fact that travelling hooligans acting up abroad are highly unlikely to destroy their own tournament with the same behaviour
____________________
You are crediting these thugs with a level of intelligence for which there is simply no evidence.
You talk of speculation but your belief that everything will go smoothly is just as speculative and the empirical evidence doesn't support that speculation at the moment.
Nobody wants violence in Russia 2018 but it is right to question how safe it is to travel there, especially as a Brit.
"The overwhelming majority of the time, these fears are unfounded."
______________
Very true but I won't be gambling with my life on this basis.
Sign in if you want to comment
2018: don't go
Page 2 of 2
posted on 14/6/16
comment by redmisty (U7556)
posted 4 minutes ago
the food
__________
Really? I found it ok but a bit strange. Whipped cream and jam on my steak for example...And hardly any veg anywhere.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What? Whipped cream and jam? Never heard of it. In fact never heard of steak at all in Russia.
Regardless I meant Russian food, not a slab of meat.
Things like borst, stroganoff, blinchiki, olivii,sharkoye, amongst others. Great alcohol too.
posted on 14/6/16
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by redmisty (U7556)
posted 6 minutes ago
the food
__________
Really? I found it ok but a bit strange. Whipped cream and jam on my steak for example...And hardly any veg anywhere.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Everything tastes of dill.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mash with dill, love it.
posted on 14/6/16
the food
__________
Really? I found it ok but a bit strange. Whipped cream and jam on my steak for example...And hardly any veg anywhere.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Everything tastes of dill.
_________________
That's true. They kept that off my steak though at least. Not sure I could get used to having 1-2 shots of vodka before every meal/course...I've since learned that wasn't mandatory though. Oh well.
posted on 14/6/16
comment by redmisty (U7556)
posted 26 seconds ago
the food
__________
Really? I found it ok but a bit strange. Whipped cream and jam on my steak for example...And hardly any veg anywhere.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Everything tastes of dill.
_________________
That's true. They kept that off my steak though at least. Not sure I could get used to having 1-2 shots of vodka before every meal/course...I've since learned that wasn't mandatory though. Oh well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Loved drinking vodka with snacks like gerkins and pieces of meat which were mostly salted fat.
posted on 14/6/16
Regardless I meant Russian food, not a slab of meat.
___________________
Two slabs of meat. They did it to my duck as well.
strogs and borst were good though. Anyway, it take a lot more than cream or jam to put me off my slabs of meat so it was all good.
posted on 14/6/16
TOOR I can drink proper Russian vodka with anything! I never realised that we get the paint stripper version over here.
posted on 14/6/16
What kind of bed-wetting cretin one-stars an article like this?
Come on Admins, out the prikk, so we can slip some polonium in his drink.
posted on 14/6/16
Did any of us warn off foreigners going to euro 96
posted on 14/6/16
I've often wondered whether it's the same person one starring every article.
posted on 14/6/16
RBW, I have no idea. Foreigners could have had legitimate discussions about safety and English hooliganism before 1996. I'd like to think it's clear that my article isn't coming from a point of view that Russians are bad and we're good.
posted on 14/6/16
The only time I spent in Russia was a stop over on the way to Japan in '91 and being stuck for a day because it was in the middle of the coup and my Mum got asked by ITN her views and had no idea what they were on about. All I remember was everyone looked so depressed but I've since learnt that Russians aren't told to smile to people the way the west (or more specifically America are).
Very good post Russian, I'm glad you managed to get a Guardian article in there too.
posted on 14/6/16
On the subject of smiles, there's a bigger distinction between public and private behaviour in Russia. People don't tend to engage with strangers as much as we do. On the other hand, they only need to make acquaintance in order to bare their soul to someone.
posted on 14/6/16
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 14/6/16
Fascist, nationalistic politics is rising all across Europe and even in the US. Hardly something unique to Russia. I think people ignore the fact that travelling hooligans acting up abroad are highly unlikely to destroy their own tournament with the same behaviour and neither would Russian security permit that in a huge tournament with plenty of propaganda value. There is a risk factor involved certainly and a few things could go wrong, but I'm utterly convinced Russia would host a good tournament.
I'm not sure either how they could host the Moscow Olympics at the height of the Cold War tensions, but somehow, their society is meant to have got much worse and incapable of hosting international matches.
posted on 14/6/16
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 59 minutes ago
comment by redmisty (U7556)
posted 6 minutes ago
the food
__________
Really? I found it ok but a bit strange. Whipped cream and jam on my steak for example...And hardly any veg anywhere.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Everything tastes of dill.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's exactly how I remember it. Dill is the taste of Russia.
posted on 14/6/16
I agree that what's happening can be seen in the context of broader international trends. At the same time there are always unique local conditions worth taking into consideration.
I set out why I don't think the authorities can entirely control the radical right in Russia - particularly outside the stadiums - having allowed it to grow and act with a large degree of impunity for the last decade or more.
As for Moscow 1980, tensions were much more restricted to a geopolitical level back then and society was far more tightly controlled. Also, there is no violent subculture ANYWHERE associated with the Olympics / athletics as there is with football. I don't think any useful comparisons can be made.
posted on 14/6/16
comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 37 minutes ago
Feel sorry for the fans from African nations that will go there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
After the Euros, I doubt we'll see half show up for a WC there. The pure hatred of Africans and the humiliation they have to bear whilst playing in Russia is horrible. I wouldn't go the the WC in Russia if you paid my 1st class air faire, free suites stocked with top shelf booze and food, push hay and the lot. I'd feel safer at the 1936 Olympics.
posted on 14/6/16
Have no intention of going
posted on 14/6/16
I set out why I don't think the authorities can entirely control the radical right in Russia - particularly outside the stadiums - having allowed it to grow and act with a large degree of impunity for the last decade or more.
---------------------------------
But that would be speculative given the fact security measures would be far more stringent and expansive at an international tournament. The authorities may lack the political will to tackle the thug culture, but I'm pretty certain they wouldn't want to embarrass themselves at a World Cup.
Look, there is nothing in Russian society which isn't closely mirrored in Ukrainian society.A lot of these same fears were expressed at the last Poland/Ukraine Euros. I remember a particularly sickening video with some East Asian guys getting beaten by thugs in the stadium and fears about rampant racism and hooliganism. The tournament was fairly hitch free. South Africa's violent crime rate is second to none in the world and there was a lot of hysteria about the safety of travelling fans. Some funny guys were selling "stab-proof vests". Again, it was only notable for boring footy and was well organized. The overwhelming majority of the time, these fears are unfounded.
posted on 14/6/16
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 14/6/16
SJB
Of course any statement about the likelihood of violence at a future tournament, including yours, is 100% speculative. I'd love to be proven wrong. I'm merely pointing at some factors that are specific to Russia that have destroyed my initial optimism about the tournament. I don't want to pull rank here, but it does seem you are going not on local knowledge, but merely the truism that 'the dangers are always exaggerated'.
A significant difference between Russia and Ukraine is that the latter wasn't in the midst of anti-Western / anti-foreign hysteria with extreme right-wing groups operating with a degree of tolerance and even sponsorship from the state. This creates quite a tension with the aspiration for the WC to be pulled off without a hitch or bad publicity. It's also bad for Putin if he totally alienates the hardline nationalist wing of his support, which has a momentum and degree of power of its own right. I don't think there were comparable dynamics in Ukraine four years ago, even though attitudes to race and the hooligan subculture were there.
As I say, I very much hope I'm wrong and that my 2010 prediction comes to pass.
posted on 15/6/16
I think people ignore the fact that travelling hooligans acting up abroad are highly unlikely to destroy their own tournament with the same behaviour
____________________
You are crediting these thugs with a level of intelligence for which there is simply no evidence.
You talk of speculation but your belief that everything will go smoothly is just as speculative and the empirical evidence doesn't support that speculation at the moment.
Nobody wants violence in Russia 2018 but it is right to question how safe it is to travel there, especially as a Brit.
"The overwhelming majority of the time, these fears are unfounded."
______________
Very true but I won't be gambling with my life on this basis.
Page 2 of 2