defnders are as good, attackers at the top of their game are jsut much better .
the likes of ronaldo, messi, cavani etc chit all over the likes of del pierro, raul etc.
comment by Geechi (U21931)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by _Viva_Vida (U6044)
posted 18 minutes ago
I agree that defending isn't as good as what it used to be.
For me Godin is the best CB around, he makes defending look easy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its not that today's defenders are horrible. I think it has to do with the position/role itself having changed. The same goes for goalies. Gone are the days of big, burly, tough tackling blokes like Gentile. It's all about having good feet & awareness. So if you're basing your comment based on comparing the current crop of defenders with their predecessors, then you're comparing apples with oranges.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say todays defenders are horrible, I said they aren't as good. Funnily enough, the CB who I regard as the best in the business, Godin, resembles more of the old school defender you alluded to.
The majority of defenders these days who are good with their feet aren't actually that good at defending. Boateng is a good example. Prances around the opposition's final third because he is good on the ball, but doesn't have a great defensive brain.
DDG is arguably the best Keeper in the world. But he isn't renowned for using his feet, he is brilliant at the fundamental aspects of goalkeeping. Like his predecessors.
comment by Stretty - mr mourinho (U3123)
posted 7 seconds ago
defnders are as good, attackers at the top of their game are jsut much better .
the likes of ronaldo, messi, cavani etc chit all over the likes of del pierro, raul etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Still remember that great Milan team of the 80's? Well, the corner stone of their success was their defense. They faced the likes of Maradona, Platini & Zico (who were on top of their) and still managed to keep clean sheets when playing against their teams. Defenders - at their peak - are just as good as offensive players - at their peak.
yeah that milan team would of beenbattered by peps barca
comment by Geechi (U21931)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 32 seconds ago
Have a winner in the defensive and offensive categories and then have them go 1 v 1 at the Award Ceremony for the main prize. That'll then make it worth watching.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I hear you, but I don't think it is practical. which has more weight: Goals or Clean Sheets? Imagine if we had a scenario were both the Offensive & Defensive players have record breaking seasons (the offensive player with record number of goals scored, the defensive player with least number of goals conceeded). Who do you give the award to?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm talking about a real live 1 v 1 challenge in the studio they host the awards. They could make it PPV perhaps.
Imagine......
Ronaldo v Jones
Messi v Lovren
Sanchez v Sanchez
comment by Geechi (U21931)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Stretty - mr mourinho (U3123)
posted 7 seconds ago
defnders are as good, attackers at the top of their game are jsut much better .
the likes of ronaldo, messi, cavani etc chit all over the likes of del pierro, raul etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Still remember that great Milan team of the 80's? Well, the corner stone of their success was their defense. They faced the likes of Maradona, Platini & Zico (who were on top of their) and still managed to keep clean sheets when playing against their teams. Defenders - at their peak - are just as good as offensive players - at their peak.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Those defenders were helped by the fact they could kick players off the park.
You can't kick attackers these days (unless you're Sergio Ramos).
Generally defenders won't be as good as attackers. That's not to say they are any less important or aren't as good at their role as attackers are at theirs but when I consider who is the best in the world I think about who has the most complete package.
For example some people believe Scholes was better than Gerrard and I can understand them thinking that if they are saying he was better at his role than Gerrard was at his but Gerrard was a better player as he had everything, a more complete player. It's also why I'd have Messi above Salah, even though Salah's goalscoring was outstanding, Messi has more to his game than Salah.
s at his but Gerrard was a better player as he had everything,
he really didnt. his passing was poor to start with
And Messi still outscored Mo anyway
comment by Stretty - mr mourinho (U3123)
posted 1 minute ago
s at his but Gerrard was a better player as he had everything,
he really didnt. his passing was poor to start with
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Passing poor
His passing range was outstanding.
I'd always argue for less individual awards within football rather than more. Football always has been a team game, individual awards should mean little imo.
At least make the wum believable and say Gerrard's positioning was poor ffs.
comment by There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Stretty - mr mourinho (U3123)
posted 1 minute ago
s at his but Gerrard was a better player as he had everything,
he really didnt. his passing was poor to start with
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Passing poor
His passing range was outstanding.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
no it wasnt, he attempted a lot of glory balls that rarely came off, he was no scholes in that regard.
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 1 minute ago
And Messi still outscored Mo anyway
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nobody said he didn't. What I meant was that Salah's goalscoring was outstanding but he wasn't as good as Messi in general play.
For example even if Kane had pipped Salah to top goalscorer I'd have still had Salah above him as he was better than Kane in general play also.
When was the last time you saw a defender on the cover of fifa or Pro evo?
I never said you did say that.
One thing I do find interesting though is that it is done way more on hype/reputation than anything particularly substantial. The example being the Balon D'Or itself being a calendar (weird) event and Kane had a phenomenal 2017 - top goal scorer for the year and everything yet didn't make the top 3.
It is a popularity contest at the end of the day.
comment by There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
Generally defenders won't be as good as attackers....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Defenders can be as good as attackers. It's just that with the commercialization of footie, the powers that be deemed it necessary to create rules that will lead to there being more goals scored in every game. This ended up hamstringing defenders & giving the offensive players all the advantage in the world. Managers/coaches then found themselves in a situation whereby they had to reinvent the position by having defenders play certain way (i.e less aggressive, less physical, more technical). If the rules allowed for the current crop of players to bring out the ''Gentile'' in them, then we'd speaking a different story. The point is, offensive players have an unfair advantage due to the rules that were put in place by the powers that be. This makes offensive players look like they are far more better than their defensive counterparts.
comment by Geechi (U21931)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
comment by Mumbai Martial (U3867)
posted 29 seconds ago
If you split the award in to two then it isn't the best player though is it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is still the same award. The academy award for best male actor holds the same weight as the award for best female actress. The Player of the year (offensive) award will hold the same weight as Best player of the year (defensive). It is the same award, but it is given to players who play in two different halves of the pitch.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It wouldn't work in a sporting context. I'm personally not a fan of individual awards in team games anyway, but all it would do it serve to create a debate about who in theory is the better player between the two winners. So creates more issues than anything really
comment by Mumbai Martial (U3867)
posted 22 minutes ago
comment by Geechi (U21931)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
comment by Mumbai Martial (U3867)
posted 29 seconds ago
If you split the award in to two then it isn't the best player though is it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is still the same award. The academy award for best male actor holds the same weight as the award for best female actress. The Player of the year (offensive) award will hold the same weight as Best player of the year (defensive). It is the same award, but it is given to players who play in two different halves of the pitch.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It wouldn't work in a sporting context. I'm personally not a fan of individual awards in team games anyway, but all it would do it serve to create a debate about who in theory is the better player between the two winners. So creates more issues than anything really
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This whole discussion reminds me of what Ashley Cole said in his book when he was talking about why he left Arsenal. He said that he was irked by the favoritism that was shown to Henry by both the fans & management. Defensive players always get treated like the unwanted step-sister. That's why when pitted against offensive players, they'll always get snubbed. Its only fair that we split the award in two.
Most defenders are players who weren't good enough to make it as midfielders or strikers in youth football.
I have no problem with giving the best footballers the player of the year award.
comment by Ron (U1646)
posted 16 minutes ago
Most defenders are players who weren't good enough to make it as midfielders or strikers in youth football.
I have no problem with giving the best footballers the player of the year award.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please!!! Offensive players are spoiled brats who need to be assisted (i.e crossess, through balls etc) in order for them to score. No one assists the defender from stopping the ball from hitting the back of the net. A guy like Ronaldo wouldn't have scored the number of goals he scored if it wasn't for his teammates laying it on the plate for him. Defenders do not have that luxury.
comment by Geechi (U21931)
posted 1 hour, 6 minutes ago
comment by Ron (U1646)
posted 16 minutes ago
Most defenders are players who weren't good enough to make it as midfielders or strikers in youth football.
I have no problem with giving the best footballers the player of the year award.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please!!! Offensive players are spoiled brats who need to be assisted (i.e crossess, through balls etc) in order for them to score. No one assists the defender from stopping the ball from hitting the back of the net. A guy like Ronaldo wouldn't have scored the number of goals he scored if it wasn't for his teammates laying it on the plate for him. Defenders do not have that luxury.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Stop it Wahl bro.
Just accept CR7 is the greatest there has ever been and will ever be, rename the award the Ballon d'Cristiano, and give it to him, retiring it.
No more squabbling about which other third-rate players we should be naming in the same breath as the great one. Just give it to Ron foreversys.
comment by Stretty - mr mourinho (U3123)
posted 5 hours, 36 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Stretty - mr mourinho (U3123)
posted 1 minute ago
s at his but Gerrard was a better player as he had everything,
he really didnt. his passing was poor to start with
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Passing poor
His passing range was outstanding.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
no it wasnt, he attempted a lot of glory balls that rarely came off, he was no scholes in that regard.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For somebody who tried so many glory balls but yet always had a pass accuracy percentage above 80%, then he must have been an excellent passer.
Do you watch football?
Gerrard passing poor
Sign in if you want to comment
Making the Ballon D'or fairer
Page 2 of 3
posted on 5/9/18
defnders are as good, attackers at the top of their game are jsut much better .
the likes of ronaldo, messi, cavani etc chit all over the likes of del pierro, raul etc.
posted on 5/9/18
comment by Geechi (U21931)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by _Viva_Vida (U6044)
posted 18 minutes ago
I agree that defending isn't as good as what it used to be.
For me Godin is the best CB around, he makes defending look easy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its not that today's defenders are horrible. I think it has to do with the position/role itself having changed. The same goes for goalies. Gone are the days of big, burly, tough tackling blokes like Gentile. It's all about having good feet & awareness. So if you're basing your comment based on comparing the current crop of defenders with their predecessors, then you're comparing apples with oranges.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say todays defenders are horrible, I said they aren't as good. Funnily enough, the CB who I regard as the best in the business, Godin, resembles more of the old school defender you alluded to.
The majority of defenders these days who are good with their feet aren't actually that good at defending. Boateng is a good example. Prances around the opposition's final third because he is good on the ball, but doesn't have a great defensive brain.
DDG is arguably the best Keeper in the world. But he isn't renowned for using his feet, he is brilliant at the fundamental aspects of goalkeeping. Like his predecessors.
posted on 5/9/18
comment by Stretty - mr mourinho (U3123)
posted 7 seconds ago
defnders are as good, attackers at the top of their game are jsut much better .
the likes of ronaldo, messi, cavani etc chit all over the likes of del pierro, raul etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Still remember that great Milan team of the 80's? Well, the corner stone of their success was their defense. They faced the likes of Maradona, Platini & Zico (who were on top of their) and still managed to keep clean sheets when playing against their teams. Defenders - at their peak - are just as good as offensive players - at their peak.
posted on 5/9/18
yeah that milan team would of beenbattered by peps barca
posted on 5/9/18
comment by Geechi (U21931)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 32 seconds ago
Have a winner in the defensive and offensive categories and then have them go 1 v 1 at the Award Ceremony for the main prize. That'll then make it worth watching.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I hear you, but I don't think it is practical. which has more weight: Goals or Clean Sheets? Imagine if we had a scenario were both the Offensive & Defensive players have record breaking seasons (the offensive player with record number of goals scored, the defensive player with least number of goals conceeded). Who do you give the award to?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm talking about a real live 1 v 1 challenge in the studio they host the awards. They could make it PPV perhaps.
Imagine......
Ronaldo v Jones
Messi v Lovren
Sanchez v Sanchez
posted on 5/9/18
comment by Geechi (U21931)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Stretty - mr mourinho (U3123)
posted 7 seconds ago
defnders are as good, attackers at the top of their game are jsut much better .
the likes of ronaldo, messi, cavani etc chit all over the likes of del pierro, raul etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Still remember that great Milan team of the 80's? Well, the corner stone of their success was their defense. They faced the likes of Maradona, Platini & Zico (who were on top of their) and still managed to keep clean sheets when playing against their teams. Defenders - at their peak - are just as good as offensive players - at their peak.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Those defenders were helped by the fact they could kick players off the park.
You can't kick attackers these days (unless you're Sergio Ramos).
posted on 5/9/18
Generally defenders won't be as good as attackers. That's not to say they are any less important or aren't as good at their role as attackers are at theirs but when I consider who is the best in the world I think about who has the most complete package.
For example some people believe Scholes was better than Gerrard and I can understand them thinking that if they are saying he was better at his role than Gerrard was at his but Gerrard was a better player as he had everything, a more complete player. It's also why I'd have Messi above Salah, even though Salah's goalscoring was outstanding, Messi has more to his game than Salah.
posted on 5/9/18
s at his but Gerrard was a better player as he had everything,
he really didnt. his passing was poor to start with
posted on 5/9/18
And Messi still outscored Mo anyway
posted on 5/9/18
comment by Stretty - mr mourinho (U3123)
posted 1 minute ago
s at his but Gerrard was a better player as he had everything,
he really didnt. his passing was poor to start with
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Passing poor
His passing range was outstanding.
posted on 5/9/18
I'd always argue for less individual awards within football rather than more. Football always has been a team game, individual awards should mean little imo.
posted on 5/9/18
At least make the wum believable and say Gerrard's positioning was poor ffs.
posted on 5/9/18
comment by There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Stretty - mr mourinho (U3123)
posted 1 minute ago
s at his but Gerrard was a better player as he had everything,
he really didnt. his passing was poor to start with
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Passing poor
His passing range was outstanding.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
no it wasnt, he attempted a lot of glory balls that rarely came off, he was no scholes in that regard.
posted on 5/9/18
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 1 minute ago
And Messi still outscored Mo anyway
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nobody said he didn't. What I meant was that Salah's goalscoring was outstanding but he wasn't as good as Messi in general play.
For example even if Kane had pipped Salah to top goalscorer I'd have still had Salah above him as he was better than Kane in general play also.
posted on 5/9/18
When was the last time you saw a defender on the cover of fifa or Pro evo?
posted on 5/9/18
I never said you did say that.
One thing I do find interesting though is that it is done way more on hype/reputation than anything particularly substantial. The example being the Balon D'Or itself being a calendar (weird) event and Kane had a phenomenal 2017 - top goal scorer for the year and everything yet didn't make the top 3.
It is a popularity contest at the end of the day.
posted on 5/9/18
comment by There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
Generally defenders won't be as good as attackers....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Defenders can be as good as attackers. It's just that with the commercialization of footie, the powers that be deemed it necessary to create rules that will lead to there being more goals scored in every game. This ended up hamstringing defenders & giving the offensive players all the advantage in the world. Managers/coaches then found themselves in a situation whereby they had to reinvent the position by having defenders play certain way (i.e less aggressive, less physical, more technical). If the rules allowed for the current crop of players to bring out the ''Gentile'' in them, then we'd speaking a different story. The point is, offensive players have an unfair advantage due to the rules that were put in place by the powers that be. This makes offensive players look like they are far more better than their defensive counterparts.
posted on 5/9/18
comment by Geechi (U21931)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
comment by Mumbai Martial (U3867)
posted 29 seconds ago
If you split the award in to two then it isn't the best player though is it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is still the same award. The academy award for best male actor holds the same weight as the award for best female actress. The Player of the year (offensive) award will hold the same weight as Best player of the year (defensive). It is the same award, but it is given to players who play in two different halves of the pitch.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It wouldn't work in a sporting context. I'm personally not a fan of individual awards in team games anyway, but all it would do it serve to create a debate about who in theory is the better player between the two winners. So creates more issues than anything really
posted on 5/9/18
comment by Mumbai Martial (U3867)
posted 22 minutes ago
comment by Geechi (U21931)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
comment by Mumbai Martial (U3867)
posted 29 seconds ago
If you split the award in to two then it isn't the best player though is it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is still the same award. The academy award for best male actor holds the same weight as the award for best female actress. The Player of the year (offensive) award will hold the same weight as Best player of the year (defensive). It is the same award, but it is given to players who play in two different halves of the pitch.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It wouldn't work in a sporting context. I'm personally not a fan of individual awards in team games anyway, but all it would do it serve to create a debate about who in theory is the better player between the two winners. So creates more issues than anything really
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 5/9/18
This whole discussion reminds me of what Ashley Cole said in his book when he was talking about why he left Arsenal. He said that he was irked by the favoritism that was shown to Henry by both the fans & management. Defensive players always get treated like the unwanted step-sister. That's why when pitted against offensive players, they'll always get snubbed. Its only fair that we split the award in two.
posted on 5/9/18
Most defenders are players who weren't good enough to make it as midfielders or strikers in youth football.
I have no problem with giving the best footballers the player of the year award.
posted on 5/9/18
comment by Ron (U1646)
posted 16 minutes ago
Most defenders are players who weren't good enough to make it as midfielders or strikers in youth football.
I have no problem with giving the best footballers the player of the year award.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please!!! Offensive players are spoiled brats who need to be assisted (i.e crossess, through balls etc) in order for them to score. No one assists the defender from stopping the ball from hitting the back of the net. A guy like Ronaldo wouldn't have scored the number of goals he scored if it wasn't for his teammates laying it on the plate for him. Defenders do not have that luxury.
posted on 5/9/18
comment by Geechi (U21931)
posted 1 hour, 6 minutes ago
comment by Ron (U1646)
posted 16 minutes ago
Most defenders are players who weren't good enough to make it as midfielders or strikers in youth football.
I have no problem with giving the best footballers the player of the year award.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please!!! Offensive players are spoiled brats who need to be assisted (i.e crossess, through balls etc) in order for them to score. No one assists the defender from stopping the ball from hitting the back of the net. A guy like Ronaldo wouldn't have scored the number of goals he scored if it wasn't for his teammates laying it on the plate for him. Defenders do not have that luxury.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Stop it Wahl bro.
posted on 5/9/18
Just accept CR7 is the greatest there has ever been and will ever be, rename the award the Ballon d'Cristiano, and give it to him, retiring it.
No more squabbling about which other third-rate players we should be naming in the same breath as the great one. Just give it to Ron foreversys.
posted on 5/9/18
comment by Stretty - mr mourinho (U3123)
posted 5 hours, 36 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Stretty - mr mourinho (U3123)
posted 1 minute ago
s at his but Gerrard was a better player as he had everything,
he really didnt. his passing was poor to start with
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Passing poor
His passing range was outstanding.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
no it wasnt, he attempted a lot of glory balls that rarely came off, he was no scholes in that regard.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For somebody who tried so many glory balls but yet always had a pass accuracy percentage above 80%, then he must have been an excellent passer.
Do you watch football?
Gerrard passing poor
Page 2 of 3