*I do take your point of view on board
Fair enough, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and it never bothers me to agree to disagree with someone.
What irritated me at the time was that it really was not so clear-cut as many were making it out to be and in my opinion there is a strong case that the referee & assistant got it right. Of course, you can analyse it in many different ways but for me, first and foremost it has to come down to whether or not he gained an advantage from being in an offside position initially - and he did. There's no question that he was behind the ball and back onside after Firminho's shot though.
It was a worry when we went behind because the goal came against the run of play (we had been dominating the second half and Liverpool were pegged back until that point). Then we got going again and Milner's facial injury causing play to stop for several minutes really broke our rhythm. There certainly seems to be more resilience or 'steel' as you said in general from the Arsenal players so far this season and there's no doubting Emery barking at them from the sidelines is helping them to stay motivated & concentrated until the final whistle.
It's blatently clear cut.
It's not about opinions it's actual written fact Mane wasn't offside according to the rules of the game, nobody is interested whether anybody likes the rule or not it was a goal end of.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
"Rules are rules but they have to be interpreted and enforced in a logical way."
In principle I actually agree with the OP. However, that's not what the rules say.
The rules are actually written so that Mane's goal isn't offside so its hilarious he talks about logical interpretations when his is anything but.
I have attempted to say that in various ways, including literally copying and pasting the relevant rules into this convo.
But no, it's misinterpretation. It isn't
Fabinho could have had 4 (yes four) yellows. the first bad foul, second and third fairly bad fouls which should have been a yellow for two fairly bad fouls in reasonably quick succession (I genuinely think our players would have been booked for either/both particularly with some refs), then the one he got the yellow for and there was a cynical one to stop our break
Yeah, agreed Fabinho could have been off but Mane's goal should have stood.
Didn't we (arsenal) have a goal incorrectly ruled out for offside?
The goal by the laws of the game should have stood. The officials got it wrong.
The End.
Your interpretation of the rules is incorrect as it was one phase of play.
End of.
Slide 22 & 23: https://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/law_11_offside_en_47383.pdf
And i quote:
'"Gaining an advantage by being that position" means:
- Playing a ball that rebounds to him off a post or crossbar, having previously been in an offside position.
- Playing a ball, that rebounds to him off an opponent, having previously been in an offside position.'
Next time before you jump on the back of the clueless media and senile celebrity referees you should learn the rules yourself first.
Especially before you start mocking others for apparently not understanding something that you are pretending to yourself.
comment by Auba 14 (U21751)
posted 12 hours, 32 minutes ago
Crying over spilled milk, come on rest it it’s obvious Liverpool aren’t gonna win anything this season just like Spurs nearly men of the decade
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This article was created by an Arsenal fan. Feckin reetaard.
comment by You Can't Buy Class (U12019)
posted 11 minutes ago
Slide 22 & 23: https://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/law_11_offside_en_47383.pdf
And i quote:
'"Gaining an advantage by being that position" means:
- Playing a ball that rebounds to him off a post or crossbar, having previously been in an offside position.
- Playing a ball, that rebounds to him off an opponent, having previously been in an offside position.'
Next time before you jump on the back of the clueless media and senile celebrity referees you should learn the rules yourself first.
Especially before you start mocking others for apparently not understanding something that you are pretending to yourself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mane was offside when the pass was made, not when the shot was taken. If he was offside as Firminho shot then you’d have a point.
Sorry, but you’re wrong.
The judgement call for the officials was to determine whether Mane was seeking to gain an advantage when the original pass was made. He clearly was and when it comes off the post he is therefore offside.
You don't need to touch the ball to be actively offside.
No I thought Arsenal's was a clear offside Godfather.
We can argue all we like but I think we all know that its a goal under the current application of the rules that we see every game.
Whether it should be a goal is up for debate. Perhaps the offside rule could do with some amendment or some directions on interpretation so as to make Mane's goal offside?
As it stands now, the precedent is that its a goal.
You have to be crazy to argue with that or not have watched the last decade or so of football.
comment by You Can't Buy Class (U12019)
posted 1 minute ago
The judgement call for the officials was to determine whether Mane was seeking to gain an advantage when the original pass was made. He clearly was and when it comes off the post he is therefore offside.
You don't need to touch the ball to be actively offside.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The current rules are all about phases of play. When Firminho shoots, a new phase is started and Mane was onside.
I actually think, in principle, that he should be given offside, but those aren’t the rules.
You don't have to be crazy to argue against it at all.
Written rules must be applied practically and fairly and i have just shared with you the evidence above which is the exact rule and reason why the referee and assistant made the right call.
Saying 'i'm right, your wrong' doesn't make you right.
You are treating it as different phases of play when in reality the 1st/2nd phase stuff is just made up nonsense that is not part of the rules and even if it was - that could only be considered 1 phase of play due to the speed of the move from start to finish.
You can call it crap but its the way games are being reffed now.
Offside wasn't given for the reason you state, they gave it because they thought Mane was ahead of the ball when Firmino took the shot.
This application of the offside rule is being applied in across the field and is now the norm. We see it almost every week.
Lots of crap being spouted here. The game finished, Won't hurt to admit it should have stood.
If you look at incidents in slow motion it is easy to differentiate when phase one finished and phase 2 started. However so far no pundit has explained that when Mane was offside in phase 1 why didn't he stop to re-establish himself. He accrued an advantage by carrying on running towards the ball. If Mane had stopped running Liverpool would have an argument. But he would have never have got to the rebound if he had done that. Which is why the linesman was correct in flagging him offside.
Its essentially why strikers are not allowed to 'goal hang'. What the pundits are suggesting is a striker can stand next to the goal keeper and as long as he is not first one to touch the ball he is not offside. That is of course utter nonsense. Strikers cannot do that because they have accrued an advantage in that situation even though they are not technically not offside in phase 2.
Exactly! Jenius gets it.
He started in an offside position which gave him an advantage over our defenders then continued running from that position too - running into "phase 2", if you like.
http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-11---offside
Q4: "Can a player who interferes with play after a rebound or save be given offside?
YES – interfering with an opponent or play after a rebound or save is clearly an offside offence if the player was originally in an offside position."
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Poolmyfinger - E pluribus unum (U12438)
Bottom line is that Mane’s goal should have stood. Sorry if that hurts your feelings.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry that your ego can't take the truth, but you are 100% wrong. It's funny that all any of you who don't understand the rules/scenario can say is that a senile celebrity referee said it should have stood and resort to childish insults and name-calling. That's no way to go about proving a point.
On the other hand, we have provided sound analysis and evidence from the FIFA/FA rules.
Sadly, i'm forced to delete your nonsense because of your inaccurate insults.
Sorry that your ego can't take the truth, but you are 100% wrong. It's funny that all any of you who don't understand the rules/scenario
=======
Mate, I say this with kindness but you've just described yourself.
Your be surprised how many Baboons laugh at their mate's red rse without comprehending that their own rse is also red.
Sign in if you want to comment
Truth Hurts
Page 2 of 3
posted on 4/11/18
*I do take your point of view on board
posted on 4/11/18
Fair enough, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and it never bothers me to agree to disagree with someone.
What irritated me at the time was that it really was not so clear-cut as many were making it out to be and in my opinion there is a strong case that the referee & assistant got it right. Of course, you can analyse it in many different ways but for me, first and foremost it has to come down to whether or not he gained an advantage from being in an offside position initially - and he did. There's no question that he was behind the ball and back onside after Firminho's shot though.
It was a worry when we went behind because the goal came against the run of play (we had been dominating the second half and Liverpool were pegged back until that point). Then we got going again and Milner's facial injury causing play to stop for several minutes really broke our rhythm. There certainly seems to be more resilience or 'steel' as you said in general from the Arsenal players so far this season and there's no doubting Emery barking at them from the sidelines is helping them to stay motivated & concentrated until the final whistle.
posted on 4/11/18
It's blatently clear cut.
It's not about opinions it's actual written fact Mane wasn't offside according to the rules of the game, nobody is interested whether anybody likes the rule or not it was a goal end of.
posted on 4/11/18
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 4/11/18
"Rules are rules but they have to be interpreted and enforced in a logical way."
In principle I actually agree with the OP. However, that's not what the rules say.
The rules are actually written so that Mane's goal isn't offside so its hilarious he talks about logical interpretations when his is anything but.
posted on 4/11/18
I have attempted to say that in various ways, including literally copying and pasting the relevant rules into this convo.
But no, it's misinterpretation. It isn't
posted on 4/11/18
Fabinho could have had 4 (yes four) yellows. the first bad foul, second and third fairly bad fouls which should have been a yellow for two fairly bad fouls in reasonably quick succession (I genuinely think our players would have been booked for either/both particularly with some refs), then the one he got the yellow for and there was a cynical one to stop our break
posted on 4/11/18
Yeah, agreed Fabinho could have been off but Mane's goal should have stood.
posted on 4/11/18
Didn't we (arsenal) have a goal incorrectly ruled out for offside?
posted on 4/11/18
The goal by the laws of the game should have stood. The officials got it wrong.
The End.
posted on 4/11/18
Your interpretation of the rules is incorrect as it was one phase of play.
End of.
posted on 4/11/18
Slide 22 & 23: https://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/law_11_offside_en_47383.pdf
And i quote:
'"Gaining an advantage by being that position" means:
- Playing a ball that rebounds to him off a post or crossbar, having previously been in an offside position.
- Playing a ball, that rebounds to him off an opponent, having previously been in an offside position.'
Next time before you jump on the back of the clueless media and senile celebrity referees you should learn the rules yourself first.
Especially before you start mocking others for apparently not understanding something that you are pretending to yourself.
posted on 4/11/18
comment by Auba 14 (U21751)
posted 12 hours, 32 minutes ago
Crying over spilled milk, come on rest it it’s obvious Liverpool aren’t gonna win anything this season just like Spurs nearly men of the decade
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This article was created by an Arsenal fan. Feckin reetaard.
posted on 4/11/18
comment by You Can't Buy Class (U12019)
posted 11 minutes ago
Slide 22 & 23: https://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/law_11_offside_en_47383.pdf
And i quote:
'"Gaining an advantage by being that position" means:
- Playing a ball that rebounds to him off a post or crossbar, having previously been in an offside position.
- Playing a ball, that rebounds to him off an opponent, having previously been in an offside position.'
Next time before you jump on the back of the clueless media and senile celebrity referees you should learn the rules yourself first.
Especially before you start mocking others for apparently not understanding something that you are pretending to yourself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mane was offside when the pass was made, not when the shot was taken. If he was offside as Firminho shot then you’d have a point.
Sorry, but you’re wrong.
posted on 4/11/18
The judgement call for the officials was to determine whether Mane was seeking to gain an advantage when the original pass was made. He clearly was and when it comes off the post he is therefore offside.
You don't need to touch the ball to be actively offside.
posted on 4/11/18
No I thought Arsenal's was a clear offside Godfather.
posted on 4/11/18
We can argue all we like but I think we all know that its a goal under the current application of the rules that we see every game.
Whether it should be a goal is up for debate. Perhaps the offside rule could do with some amendment or some directions on interpretation so as to make Mane's goal offside?
As it stands now, the precedent is that its a goal.
You have to be crazy to argue with that or not have watched the last decade or so of football.
posted on 4/11/18
comment by You Can't Buy Class (U12019)
posted 1 minute ago
The judgement call for the officials was to determine whether Mane was seeking to gain an advantage when the original pass was made. He clearly was and when it comes off the post he is therefore offside.
You don't need to touch the ball to be actively offside.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The current rules are all about phases of play. When Firminho shoots, a new phase is started and Mane was onside.
I actually think, in principle, that he should be given offside, but those aren’t the rules.
posted on 4/11/18
You don't have to be crazy to argue against it at all.
Written rules must be applied practically and fairly and i have just shared with you the evidence above which is the exact rule and reason why the referee and assistant made the right call.
Saying 'i'm right, your wrong' doesn't make you right.
You are treating it as different phases of play when in reality the 1st/2nd phase stuff is just made up nonsense that is not part of the rules and even if it was - that could only be considered 1 phase of play due to the speed of the move from start to finish.
posted on 4/11/18
You can call it crap but its the way games are being reffed now.
Offside wasn't given for the reason you state, they gave it because they thought Mane was ahead of the ball when Firmino took the shot.
This application of the offside rule is being applied in across the field and is now the norm. We see it almost every week.
Lots of crap being spouted here. The game finished, Won't hurt to admit it should have stood.
posted on 4/11/18
If you look at incidents in slow motion it is easy to differentiate when phase one finished and phase 2 started. However so far no pundit has explained that when Mane was offside in phase 1 why didn't he stop to re-establish himself. He accrued an advantage by carrying on running towards the ball. If Mane had stopped running Liverpool would have an argument. But he would have never have got to the rebound if he had done that. Which is why the linesman was correct in flagging him offside.
Its essentially why strikers are not allowed to 'goal hang'. What the pundits are suggesting is a striker can stand next to the goal keeper and as long as he is not first one to touch the ball he is not offside. That is of course utter nonsense. Strikers cannot do that because they have accrued an advantage in that situation even though they are not technically not offside in phase 2.
posted on 4/11/18
Exactly! Jenius gets it.
He started in an offside position which gave him an advantage over our defenders then continued running from that position too - running into "phase 2", if you like.
http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-11---offside
Q4: "Can a player who interferes with play after a rebound or save be given offside?
YES – interfering with an opponent or play after a rebound or save is clearly an offside offence if the player was originally in an offside position."
posted on 4/11/18
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 5/11/18
comment by Poolmyfinger - E pluribus unum (U12438)
Bottom line is that Mane’s goal should have stood. Sorry if that hurts your feelings.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry that your ego can't take the truth, but you are 100% wrong. It's funny that all any of you who don't understand the rules/scenario can say is that a senile celebrity referee said it should have stood and resort to childish insults and name-calling. That's no way to go about proving a point.
On the other hand, we have provided sound analysis and evidence from the FIFA/FA rules.
Sadly, i'm forced to delete your nonsense because of your inaccurate insults.
posted on 5/11/18
Sorry that your ego can't take the truth, but you are 100% wrong. It's funny that all any of you who don't understand the rules/scenario
=======
Mate, I say this with kindness but you've just described yourself.
Your be surprised how many Baboons laugh at their mate's red rse without comprehending that their own rse is also red.
Page 2 of 3