comment by I'll be The Judge of that! (U21434)
posted 1 hour, 2 minutes ago
Totally what Merry says above.
Doesnt matter who or how good the oppo is: Watford Paris Southampton Brighton Barcelona Burnley and West Ham, we give them the ball constantly and make them all look like Brazil. They outcompete us in every part of the pitch, seem to have better players than us and from back to front and across all our lines look better set up and organised than us
Root and branch surgery needed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry; but that's hyperbolic nonsense.
None of those teams outcompeted us in "every part of the pitch" barring PSG in the fixture at OT.
It is also possible to control a game without having the ball btw. We just haven't been doing that very well in recent weeks.
Not saying I like the approach, because I'd rather see us dominate possession and move the ball better. But it is a legitimate strategy.
None of those teams outcompeted us in "every part of the pitch"
++
Didnt you watch the Watfordolona game then?
And West Ham did too yesterday. Did you not watch that game either? Cos if you saw something else you are in denial.
Barca didnt even get out of 2nd gear. Didnt need too. Next week at Camp Nou could actually be embarrassing.
Don't bury your head in the sand. We got rid of the depressing cancer of Mourinho and Im totally with Ole... but he has some players in that squad who don't want to be there, don't want to make a required effort , or who are past it, or just not good enough.
And we all know who they are.
Ole needs the get his own players in there. And it starts this summer. He will need 3 or 4 windows to make his mark.
West Ham didn't outcompete us in our defensive third, despite our defensive disorganisation. Neither did Barcelona.
Both teams did in their defensive thirds and in the centre of the park, granted.
Performances in the last six weeks have been variable, but let's not make out we're in some kind of crisis state. Our record since Ole took over has been excellent, notwithstanding recent challenges. If we'd had the same kind of results all season, we'd be involved in a title scrap right now.
Judge
Does even a small part of you think that maybe Ole isn’t up to the job? That he’s another Moyes. A nice guy who’s been brought in to do a job for a guy that might need to have more authority about him. Can you really imagine Ole being ruthless with a guy like Pogba?
I genuinely hope I’m wrong but it could just be that the new manager sheen is wearing off and we’re seeing Ole being outthought by the likes of Pellegrini and the Wolves manager and the Watford manager etc on a weekly basis.
That’s not to say Jose should have stayed - even I wanted him out but maybe Ole is also beginning to show why no one ever thought he should be the next permanent guy before his name was ever brought up after Jose was sacked
Rosso
We've been rubbish for 3 months now, with very few exceptions. If you've actually watched the games, then you really must be tired of trying to defend what has been served up. And you must also know that you're very likely to see absolute dross in our next game.
But then, if that's the standard of play you expect, you probably don't deserve any better. You didn't address is losing the vast majority of headers in our own box. Lazy, lethargic, not switched on, not competing
Does even a small part of you think that maybe Ole isn’t up to the job? That he’s another Moyes. A nice guy who’s been brought in to do a job for a guy that might need to have more authority about him. Can you really imagine Ole being ruthless with a guy like Pogba?
-/
Probably isn’t allowed to if there’s any truth in jose’s ‘Saint pogba’ comments...
Everyone's going a bit OTT aren't they
We don't have a Salah or a mane or a Ronaldo or a Messi or even a firmino who I highly rate.
We don't have an aguero who is the best striker in the league. We don't have a Harry Kane or a ambayangabamabong or a lacazette.
We have a load of inconsistent strikers who possibly are not up to the job and we are still in with a shout for top 4 after Jose almost fecked our season.
We have lots of problems yeah, but it can't all be fixed instantly can it.
People need to chill out
comment by Greg- (U1192)
posted 8 minutes ago
Everyone's going a bit OTT aren't they
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes they are.
comment by merrysupersteve - Jose'd he wouldn't be our Special One? (U1132)
posted 46 minutes ago
Rosso
We've been rubbish for 3 months now, with very few exceptions. If you've actually watched the games, then you really must be tired of trying to defend what has been served up. And you must also know that you're very likely to see absolute dross in our next game.
But then, if that's the standard of play you expect, you probably don't deserve any better. You didn't address is losing the vast majority of headers in our own box. Lazy, lethargic, not switched on, not competing
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In the last three months we have own eleven games and beaten Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal and PSG.
We were poor yesterday, but not "absolute dross". Absolute dross week-in, week-out, does not have you winning two thirds of your games.
We've had injury problems in that period (all of Rashford, Lingard, Martial, Herrera, Matic, Smalling, Bailly have been unavailable at times), and a squad dealing with going from doing the least amount of running in the league to somewhere near the top in Ole's first ten games. That is going to have a serious impact on muscle fatigue.
In the last three months we have own eleven games and beaten Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal and PSG.
--------------------------------------------
We also looked much the better side in the game we lost at the Emirates. And were PSG's equal in the first half at OT until injuries eviscerated our game plan. And were more than equal to Liverpool when injuries again undermined our game plan. And we largely held our own and at times pegged back Barcelona.
Yes, there has been a downturn in performances since the heady days of the first 10 fixtures. But the context Rosso points out (fatigue, injuries) really ought to be taken into consideration. And 'absolute dross' is hysterical levels of hyperbole.
And two of those games, we were played off the park in. Excuses aside, are you happy with how this team is playing at the minute? Wolves in the cup? Watford? Wolves (beyond the first 20 minutes) in the league? Barca at home with no shots on target and only one chance at home? West Ham yesterday? That's just our last 5 games. We weren't exactly playing well when winning games before that.
Injuries and suspensions don't excuse the inability to pass the ball to a teammate.
But again, if that's the standard of football you expect and are happy with, then enjoy mediocrity. We really should be aiming for so much better imo
We most certainly weren't more than equal to Liverpool before the injuries. They were all over us in the first 20 minutes. Injuries didn't cost us against PSG either. Them being able to pass the ball through our midfield like it wasn't there is what was the problem.
But again, there's nothing to worry about, is there? The standard we hope for is to turn up, not roll over and produce the occasional good 20 minutes of football
Of course Ole is aiming for and all the fans are hoping for better than the last five games. Nobody would be happy with yesterday's performance, including the manager and the players.
Do you really think Ole and those involved on the pitch will be satisfied with their showing this weekend?
And did you notice that I wrote the OP?!
There is, however, acknowledging a poor run of performances and seeing them in a wider and deeper context, and then there is applying a doom and gloom tunnel vision, ignoring any and all of the positives, and wailing that the sky is falling in.
My perspective is based far more on performances than results. Hence why I've said it's continued for 3 months now. And I don't blame it on Solskjaer either. There is just too much of a culture in this squad of doing the bare minimum and hoping to get by. And that culture existed long before Ole came in.
It's why I get annoyed when I see players who have regressed and passively contribute to our decline get bew contracts. How can we hope to progress if we keep the players who have far too readily been a part of and accepted the gradual fall away from the top?
We haven't reached the heady heights of Oles first few months recently but since he's been here he's kept pace with Liverpool and City who we all accept as being better and further ahead in their development.
I think some serious fitness work over the summer will make a massive difference. That, coupled with shrewd, signings, will make us much more competitive next season IMO.
comment by Diafol Better (U2462)
posted 55 minutes ago
We haven't reached the heady heights of Oles first few months recently but since he's been here he's kept pace with Liverpool and City who we all accept as being better and further ahead in their development.
I think some serious fitness work over the summer will make a massive difference. That, coupled with shrewd, signings, will make us much more competitive next season IMO.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree.
Three quality signings in the right positions and the right preseason from a training and fitness perspective might make a huge difference across next season.
merrysupersteve seems to be seeing things in the extremes today. There's an acre of middle ground between thinking 'absolute dross for three months' is going a bit far and claiming 'there's nothing to worry about, is there?'
If you watched United at home you will know it has been absolute dross recently, for whatever reasons and excuses you come up with. We make average PL teams look like world beaters for large periods of the games mainly in the second half. We cant string 3 passes together and constantly give them the ball back and they keep coming at us and we have no answer. We dont compete enough in the middle of the park and the one to one battles, never win any of the bits and defensively we are shocking at times. West Ham second half showed us all this and more... just like watford did. Players are hiding and our so called stella players such as Pogba go missing. How you can build a team around this fella is beyond me. He needs to see videos of Robson Keano and Buchan. McT and shaw seems to be our most competitive players recently FFS...
which brings me to Ole...
I think Ole is the right kind of manger for United this time (lets face it we have tried everything else) Hes an ex (Fergie) player who understands the Club, the supporters and the mood of Reds in Manchester and what the United Way involves and knows what it takes to succeed as a player at United and win trophies. But he needs a DoF and time.
Ole has to shuffle the pack atm of players he has been dealt with by the cancer, Jose. he has done so well so far that CL qualification which seemed impossible last Christmas is back on for United and unfairly he will be judged in his ability to get it over the line in the next few weeks but I dont think we have the players in the squad who have the spunk for this fight, which is now becoming evident. All this talk of tiredness and injury infruriates me. I don't see Liverpool Spurs Arsenal and City moaning about regular fixtures. they just get on with it and deliver. I am sure Ole will be ruthless in the summer with a clear out of the time wasters and bring his type of players who want to play for United our way over the next couple of years
Liverpool go 2-0 up vs Chelsea. We are light years away from their level which is quite frankly, shocking
I'm sorry but fitness and fatigue have to be a consideration when we literally went from the least amount of running to the most amount, that has inevitably slowed down. These players need a good preseason with the manager. Although I do agree there are some players in this squad who aren't good enough: Sanchez, Young, Jones, Rojo to name a few.
Having said that, some people are getting a bit hysterical about our current form. We are very much a work in progress, arguably the real work (transfer business) hasn't started yet. Ole has had to work with what he's got which is someone else's squad, the man needs time but to get us competing for top 4 after the Jose meltdown.
Another note, I don't believe we will compete for the title next and it will be another fight for top 4. We have been left so far behind these last few years that it will take several windows to get us back to where we feel we belong. And not all the players we need will be available in one window. Patience is needed.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 21 hours, 3 minutes ago
comment by Greg- (U1192)
posted 8 minutes ago
Everyone's going a bit OTT aren't they
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes they are.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s quite funny. When he was winning it was ‘give ole the job, he’s the new saf’, now that we have hit a bit of poor form ‘should have gone for poch’.
Sign in if you want to comment
4-2-3-1 and Pogba in a two
Page 2 of 2
posted on 14/4/19
comment by I'll be The Judge of that! (U21434)
posted 1 hour, 2 minutes ago
Totally what Merry says above.
Doesnt matter who or how good the oppo is: Watford Paris Southampton Brighton Barcelona Burnley and West Ham, we give them the ball constantly and make them all look like Brazil. They outcompete us in every part of the pitch, seem to have better players than us and from back to front and across all our lines look better set up and organised than us
Root and branch surgery needed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry; but that's hyperbolic nonsense.
None of those teams outcompeted us in "every part of the pitch" barring PSG in the fixture at OT.
It is also possible to control a game without having the ball btw. We just haven't been doing that very well in recent weeks.
Not saying I like the approach, because I'd rather see us dominate possession and move the ball better. But it is a legitimate strategy.
posted on 14/4/19
None of those teams outcompeted us in "every part of the pitch"
++
Didnt you watch the Watfordolona game then?
And West Ham did too yesterday. Did you not watch that game either? Cos if you saw something else you are in denial.
Barca didnt even get out of 2nd gear. Didnt need too. Next week at Camp Nou could actually be embarrassing.
Don't bury your head in the sand. We got rid of the depressing cancer of Mourinho and Im totally with Ole... but he has some players in that squad who don't want to be there, don't want to make a required effort , or who are past it, or just not good enough.
And we all know who they are.
Ole needs the get his own players in there. And it starts this summer. He will need 3 or 4 windows to make his mark.
posted on 14/4/19
West Ham didn't outcompete us in our defensive third, despite our defensive disorganisation. Neither did Barcelona.
Both teams did in their defensive thirds and in the centre of the park, granted.
Performances in the last six weeks have been variable, but let's not make out we're in some kind of crisis state. Our record since Ole took over has been excellent, notwithstanding recent challenges. If we'd had the same kind of results all season, we'd be involved in a title scrap right now.
posted on 14/4/19
Judge
Does even a small part of you think that maybe Ole isn’t up to the job? That he’s another Moyes. A nice guy who’s been brought in to do a job for a guy that might need to have more authority about him. Can you really imagine Ole being ruthless with a guy like Pogba?
I genuinely hope I’m wrong but it could just be that the new manager sheen is wearing off and we’re seeing Ole being outthought by the likes of Pellegrini and the Wolves manager and the Watford manager etc on a weekly basis.
That’s not to say Jose should have stayed - even I wanted him out but maybe Ole is also beginning to show why no one ever thought he should be the next permanent guy before his name was ever brought up after Jose was sacked
posted on 14/4/19
Rosso
We've been rubbish for 3 months now, with very few exceptions. If you've actually watched the games, then you really must be tired of trying to defend what has been served up. And you must also know that you're very likely to see absolute dross in our next game.
But then, if that's the standard of play you expect, you probably don't deserve any better. You didn't address is losing the vast majority of headers in our own box. Lazy, lethargic, not switched on, not competing
posted on 14/4/19
Does even a small part of you think that maybe Ole isn’t up to the job? That he’s another Moyes. A nice guy who’s been brought in to do a job for a guy that might need to have more authority about him. Can you really imagine Ole being ruthless with a guy like Pogba?
-/
Probably isn’t allowed to if there’s any truth in jose’s ‘Saint pogba’ comments...
posted on 14/4/19
Everyone's going a bit OTT aren't they
posted on 14/4/19
We don't have a Salah or a mane or a Ronaldo or a Messi or even a firmino who I highly rate.
We don't have an aguero who is the best striker in the league. We don't have a Harry Kane or a ambayangabamabong or a lacazette.
We have a load of inconsistent strikers who possibly are not up to the job and we are still in with a shout for top 4 after Jose almost fecked our season.
We have lots of problems yeah, but it can't all be fixed instantly can it.
People need to chill out
posted on 14/4/19
comment by Greg- (U1192)
posted 8 minutes ago
Everyone's going a bit OTT aren't they
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes they are.
posted on 14/4/19
comment by merrysupersteve - Jose'd he wouldn't be our Special One? (U1132)
posted 46 minutes ago
Rosso
We've been rubbish for 3 months now, with very few exceptions. If you've actually watched the games, then you really must be tired of trying to defend what has been served up. And you must also know that you're very likely to see absolute dross in our next game.
But then, if that's the standard of play you expect, you probably don't deserve any better. You didn't address is losing the vast majority of headers in our own box. Lazy, lethargic, not switched on, not competing
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In the last three months we have own eleven games and beaten Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal and PSG.
We were poor yesterday, but not "absolute dross". Absolute dross week-in, week-out, does not have you winning two thirds of your games.
We've had injury problems in that period (all of Rashford, Lingard, Martial, Herrera, Matic, Smalling, Bailly have been unavailable at times), and a squad dealing with going from doing the least amount of running in the league to somewhere near the top in Ole's first ten games. That is going to have a serious impact on muscle fatigue.
posted on 14/4/19
In the last three months we have own eleven games and beaten Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal and PSG.
--------------------------------------------
We also looked much the better side in the game we lost at the Emirates. And were PSG's equal in the first half at OT until injuries eviscerated our game plan. And were more than equal to Liverpool when injuries again undermined our game plan. And we largely held our own and at times pegged back Barcelona.
Yes, there has been a downturn in performances since the heady days of the first 10 fixtures. But the context Rosso points out (fatigue, injuries) really ought to be taken into consideration. And 'absolute dross' is hysterical levels of hyperbole.
posted on 14/4/19
And two of those games, we were played off the park in. Excuses aside, are you happy with how this team is playing at the minute? Wolves in the cup? Watford? Wolves (beyond the first 20 minutes) in the league? Barca at home with no shots on target and only one chance at home? West Ham yesterday? That's just our last 5 games. We weren't exactly playing well when winning games before that.
Injuries and suspensions don't excuse the inability to pass the ball to a teammate.
But again, if that's the standard of football you expect and are happy with, then enjoy mediocrity. We really should be aiming for so much better imo
posted on 14/4/19
We most certainly weren't more than equal to Liverpool before the injuries. They were all over us in the first 20 minutes. Injuries didn't cost us against PSG either. Them being able to pass the ball through our midfield like it wasn't there is what was the problem.
But again, there's nothing to worry about, is there? The standard we hope for is to turn up, not roll over and produce the occasional good 20 minutes of football
posted on 14/4/19
Of course Ole is aiming for and all the fans are hoping for better than the last five games. Nobody would be happy with yesterday's performance, including the manager and the players.
Do you really think Ole and those involved on the pitch will be satisfied with their showing this weekend?
And did you notice that I wrote the OP?!
There is, however, acknowledging a poor run of performances and seeing them in a wider and deeper context, and then there is applying a doom and gloom tunnel vision, ignoring any and all of the positives, and wailing that the sky is falling in.
posted on 14/4/19
My perspective is based far more on performances than results. Hence why I've said it's continued for 3 months now. And I don't blame it on Solskjaer either. There is just too much of a culture in this squad of doing the bare minimum and hoping to get by. And that culture existed long before Ole came in.
It's why I get annoyed when I see players who have regressed and passively contribute to our decline get bew contracts. How can we hope to progress if we keep the players who have far too readily been a part of and accepted the gradual fall away from the top?
posted on 14/4/19
We haven't reached the heady heights of Oles first few months recently but since he's been here he's kept pace with Liverpool and City who we all accept as being better and further ahead in their development.
I think some serious fitness work over the summer will make a massive difference. That, coupled with shrewd, signings, will make us much more competitive next season IMO.
posted on 14/4/19
comment by Diafol Better (U2462)
posted 55 minutes ago
We haven't reached the heady heights of Oles first few months recently but since he's been here he's kept pace with Liverpool and City who we all accept as being better and further ahead in their development.
I think some serious fitness work over the summer will make a massive difference. That, coupled with shrewd, signings, will make us much more competitive next season IMO.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree.
Three quality signings in the right positions and the right preseason from a training and fitness perspective might make a huge difference across next season.
posted on 14/4/19
merrysupersteve seems to be seeing things in the extremes today. There's an acre of middle ground between thinking 'absolute dross for three months' is going a bit far and claiming 'there's nothing to worry about, is there?'
posted on 14/4/19
If you watched United at home you will know it has been absolute dross recently, for whatever reasons and excuses you come up with. We make average PL teams look like world beaters for large periods of the games mainly in the second half. We cant string 3 passes together and constantly give them the ball back and they keep coming at us and we have no answer. We dont compete enough in the middle of the park and the one to one battles, never win any of the bits and defensively we are shocking at times. West Ham second half showed us all this and more... just like watford did. Players are hiding and our so called stella players such as Pogba go missing. How you can build a team around this fella is beyond me. He needs to see videos of Robson Keano and Buchan. McT and shaw seems to be our most competitive players recently FFS...
which brings me to Ole...
I think Ole is the right kind of manger for United this time (lets face it we have tried everything else) Hes an ex (Fergie) player who understands the Club, the supporters and the mood of Reds in Manchester and what the United Way involves and knows what it takes to succeed as a player at United and win trophies. But he needs a DoF and time.
Ole has to shuffle the pack atm of players he has been dealt with by the cancer, Jose. he has done so well so far that CL qualification which seemed impossible last Christmas is back on for United and unfairly he will be judged in his ability to get it over the line in the next few weeks but I dont think we have the players in the squad who have the spunk for this fight, which is now becoming evident. All this talk of tiredness and injury infruriates me. I don't see Liverpool Spurs Arsenal and City moaning about regular fixtures. they just get on with it and deliver. I am sure Ole will be ruthless in the summer with a clear out of the time wasters and bring his type of players who want to play for United our way over the next couple of years
Liverpool go 2-0 up vs Chelsea. We are light years away from their level which is quite frankly, shocking
posted on 15/4/19
I'm sorry but fitness and fatigue have to be a consideration when we literally went from the least amount of running to the most amount, that has inevitably slowed down. These players need a good preseason with the manager. Although I do agree there are some players in this squad who aren't good enough: Sanchez, Young, Jones, Rojo to name a few.
Having said that, some people are getting a bit hysterical about our current form. We are very much a work in progress, arguably the real work (transfer business) hasn't started yet. Ole has had to work with what he's got which is someone else's squad, the man needs time but to get us competing for top 4 after the Jose meltdown.
Another note, I don't believe we will compete for the title next and it will be another fight for top 4. We have been left so far behind these last few years that it will take several windows to get us back to where we feel we belong. And not all the players we need will be available in one window. Patience is needed.
posted on 15/4/19
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 21 hours, 3 minutes ago
comment by Greg- (U1192)
posted 8 minutes ago
Everyone's going a bit OTT aren't they
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes they are.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s quite funny. When he was winning it was ‘give ole the job, he’s the new saf’, now that we have hit a bit of poor form ‘should have gone for poch’.
Page 2 of 2