comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 51 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 1 hour, 2 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 10 minutes ago
Although, not really relevant to this article - I always found RvP to be overrated as he was purely a goalscorer but he scored over 12 goals twice, in the PL. He got a 26 and a 30 and all the rest were 12 and under.
------------------
Struggling to see how you think that RVP was only a goalscorer. He always chipped in with the assists and was very adept at holding up the ball and bringing others into play. He was often involved in the build up play and had a good eye for pass/through ball. The beauty with RVP was that he could play the no.9 or no.10 role to a very high level and often swapped between the two positions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In comparison to Firmino I meant. Firmino is back in midfield winning the ball, playing in other players, never stopping. Scoring is almost secondary. The teams played in very different ways and if you put Firmino into that United team it probably wouldn't have worked. Regardless, I'd have Firmino ahead of RvP.
------------------
I like Firminho TOOR - a very unselfish and hard working player with good all round ability. Horses for courses between him and RVP. I just didn't agree with the assessment that RVP was overrated because he was purely a goalscorer. He was actually quite creative when playing deeper.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say he was overrated because he was purely a goalscorer. I said he was overrated because he scored over 12 goals twice. Yet he was the main striker in his teams, a goalscorer, not like a false 9 who did much of the work to create the openings for the wide players. If you switched both players, our wide players wouldn't get near as many goals and Firmino wouldn't get the 30 needed for the striker on your team.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He wasn't the main striker in his teams. Before he joined Arsenal he played on the left usually. For Arsenal he played usually as the no.10 after Bergkamp retired with Henry ahead of him. When Henry retired he then became the main striker. At United him and Rooney often switched between 9 and 10. It was a great combination.
And he managed more than 12 league goals on 3 occasions not 2. The reason that he didn't manage it more time was because he was always injured. Even taking into account the injuries, and the fact he didn't always play as the main striker, he was still a 1 in 2 striker over the course of his PL career.
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
Come on TOOR - he obviously wasn't 'purely a goalscorer', as his assists stat show.
Fair?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe not purely a goalscorer but an out and out striker whose main role was to score goals.
--------------------------------
That is only true for 40% of his time in the PL. The rest he was either playing deeper or switching between the two roles.
There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
Fair enough.
My issue with that is that this is, I thought, a comparison between two players and the specific seasons they had.
Of course, their roles in the team are different.
So my decision was based on who was having the better season at the time, and I think RVP had one of the best seasons a striker has had in the league that year.
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 51 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 1 hour, 2 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 10 minutes ago
Although, not really relevant to this article - I always found RvP to be overrated as he was purely a goalscorer but he scored over 12 goals twice, in the PL. He got a 26 and a 30 and all the rest were 12 and under.
------------------
Struggling to see how you think that RVP was only a goalscorer. He always chipped in with the assists and was very adept at holding up the ball and bringing others into play. He was often involved in the build up play and had a good eye for pass/through ball. The beauty with RVP was that he could play the no.9 or no.10 role to a very high level and often swapped between the two positions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In comparison to Firmino I meant. Firmino is back in midfield winning the ball, playing in other players, never stopping. Scoring is almost secondary. The teams played in very different ways and if you put Firmino into that United team it probably wouldn't have worked. Regardless, I'd have Firmino ahead of RvP.
------------------
I like Firminho TOOR - a very unselfish and hard working player with good all round ability. Horses for courses between him and RVP. I just didn't agree with the assessment that RVP was overrated because he was purely a goalscorer. He was actually quite creative when playing deeper.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say he was overrated because he was purely a goalscorer. I said he was overrated because he scored over 12 goals twice. Yet he was the main striker in his teams, a goalscorer, not like a false 9 who did much of the work to create the openings for the wide players. If you switched both players, our wide players wouldn't get near as many goals and Firmino wouldn't get the 30 needed for the striker on your team.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He wasn't the main striker in his teams. Before he joined Arsenal he played on the left usually. For Arsenal he played usually as the no.10 after Bergkamp retired with Henry ahead of him. When Henry retired he then became the main striker. At United him and Rooney often switched between 9 and 10. It was a great combination.
And he managed more than 12 league goals on 3 occasions not 2. The reason that he didn't manage it more time was because he was always injured. Even taking into account the injuries, and the fact he didn't always play as the main striker, he was still a 1 in 2 striker over the course of his PL career.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Three times? I counted two. Anyhow that's why I think he was overrated. As with King, you can't rate a player on what might have been if he wasnt always injured, only on what he was and what RvP was is a tier below top goalscorers apart from 2/3 seasons.
This however had no bearing on my choice of Firmino ahead of him.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 seconds ago
There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
Fair enough.
My issue with that is that this is, I thought, a comparison between two players and the specific seasons they had.
Of course, their roles in the team are different.
So my decision was based on who was having the better season at the time, and I think RVP had one of the best seasons a striker has had in the league that year.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well that wouldn't be fair considering RvP had a full season and Firmino has only had eight games.
strange thing for the BBC to do
shouldn't they do this comparison with the United teams from 94/5, 97/8, 05/6, 09/10, 11/12 or 17/18?
then when Liverpool actually with the PL they can do a combined from this Liverpool team and a United team from 92-94, 95-97, 98-01, 02/03, 06-09, 10/11, 12/13?
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 51 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 1 hour, 2 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 10 minutes ago
Although, not really relevant to this article - I always found RvP to be overrated as he was purely a goalscorer but he scored over 12 goals twice, in the PL. He got a 26 and a 30 and all the rest were 12 and under.
------------------
Struggling to see how you think that RVP was only a goalscorer. He always chipped in with the assists and was very adept at holding up the ball and bringing others into play. He was often involved in the build up play and had a good eye for pass/through ball. The beauty with RVP was that he could play the no.9 or no.10 role to a very high level and often swapped between the two positions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In comparison to Firmino I meant. Firmino is back in midfield winning the ball, playing in other players, never stopping. Scoring is almost secondary. The teams played in very different ways and if you put Firmino into that United team it probably wouldn't have worked. Regardless, I'd have Firmino ahead of RvP.
------------------
I like Firminho TOOR - a very unselfish and hard working player with good all round ability. Horses for courses between him and RVP. I just didn't agree with the assessment that RVP was overrated because he was purely a goalscorer. He was actually quite creative when playing deeper.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say he was overrated because he was purely a goalscorer. I said he was overrated because he scored over 12 goals twice. Yet he was the main striker in his teams, a goalscorer, not like a false 9 who did much of the work to create the openings for the wide players. If you switched both players, our wide players wouldn't get near as many goals and Firmino wouldn't get the 30 needed for the striker on your team.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He wasn't the main striker in his teams. Before he joined Arsenal he played on the left usually. For Arsenal he played usually as the no.10 after Bergkamp retired with Henry ahead of him. When Henry retired he then became the main striker. At United him and Rooney often switched between 9 and 10. It was a great combination.
And he managed more than 12 league goals on 3 occasions not 2. The reason that he didn't manage it more time was because he was always injured. Even taking into account the injuries, and the fact he didn't always play as the main striker, he was still a 1 in 2 striker over the course of his PL career.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Three times? I counted two. Anyhow that's why I think he was overrated. As with King, you can't rate a player on what might have been if he wasnt always injured, only on what he was and what RvP was is a tier below top goalscorers apart from 2/3 seasons.
This however had no bearing on my choice of Firmino ahead of him.
----------------------
TOOR, he averaged a goal every 139.7 minutes on the pitch. That is the tenth best goals to minutes ratio in PL history. Suarez is only marginally better on 138.8 minutes. No-one is overrating RVP based on what he might have been had he not been injured a lot. He was an extremely good player who might have been even better if not for injuries, but even with the injuries, he was right up there.
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 seconds ago
There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
Fair enough.
My issue with that is that this is, I thought, a comparison between two players and the specific seasons they had.
Of course, their roles in the team are different.
So my decision was based on who was having the better season at the time, and I think RVP had one of the best seasons a striker has had in the league that year.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well that wouldn't be fair considering RvP had a full season and Firmino has only had eight games.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well yes, the BBC article is somewhat flawed - but I think you'd probably take last season into account as well, for Firmino.
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 51 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 1 hour, 2 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 10 minutes ago
Although, not really relevant to this article - I always found RvP to be overrated as he was purely a goalscorer but he scored over 12 goals twice, in the PL. He got a 26 and a 30 and all the rest were 12 and under.
------------------
Struggling to see how you think that RVP was only a goalscorer. He always chipped in with the assists and was very adept at holding up the ball and bringing others into play. He was often involved in the build up play and had a good eye for pass/through ball. The beauty with RVP was that he could play the no.9 or no.10 role to a very high level and often swapped between the two positions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In comparison to Firmino I meant. Firmino is back in midfield winning the ball, playing in other players, never stopping. Scoring is almost secondary. The teams played in very different ways and if you put Firmino into that United team it probably wouldn't have worked. Regardless, I'd have Firmino ahead of RvP.
------------------
I like Firminho TOOR - a very unselfish and hard working player with good all round ability. Horses for courses between him and RVP. I just didn't agree with the assessment that RVP was overrated because he was purely a goalscorer. He was actually quite creative when playing deeper.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say he was overrated because he was purely a goalscorer. I said he was overrated because he scored over 12 goals twice. Yet he was the main striker in his teams, a goalscorer, not like a false 9 who did much of the work to create the openings for the wide players. If you switched both players, our wide players wouldn't get near as many goals and Firmino wouldn't get the 30 needed for the striker on your team.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He wasn't the main striker in his teams. Before he joined Arsenal he played on the left usually. For Arsenal he played usually as the no.10 after Bergkamp retired with Henry ahead of him. When Henry retired he then became the main striker. At United him and Rooney often switched between 9 and 10. It was a great combination.
And he managed more than 12 league goals on 3 occasions not 2. The reason that he didn't manage it more time was because he was always injured. Even taking into account the injuries, and the fact he didn't always play as the main striker, he was still a 1 in 2 striker over the course of his PL career.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Three times? I counted two. Anyhow that's why I think he was overrated. As with King, you can't rate a player on what might have been if he wasnt always injured, only on what he was and what RvP was is a tier below top goalscorers apart from 2/3 seasons.
This however had no bearing on my choice of Firmino ahead of him.
----------------------
TOOR, he averaged a goal every 139.7 minutes on the pitch. That is the tenth best goals to minutes ratio in PL history. Suarez is only marginally better on 138.8 minutes. No-one is overrating RVP based on what he might have been had he not been injured a lot. He was an extremely good player who might have been even better if not for injuries, but even with the injuries, he was right up there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes all that is great but the times he wasnt on the pitch count also. It's a team game.
If it wasnt for injuries he may have been an all time top PL striker. However he had the injuries and as it stands he scored over 12 goals 2/3 times in all his time in the league and therefore he does compare. This is why I believe he was overrated. And that's not a term I fire around like half the people on the site.
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 41 seconds ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 51 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 1 hour, 2 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 10 minutes ago
Although, not really relevant to this article - I always found RvP to be overrated as he was purely a goalscorer but he scored over 12 goals twice, in the PL. He got a 26 and a 30 and all the rest were 12 and under.
------------------
Struggling to see how you think that RVP was only a goalscorer. He always chipped in with the assists and was very adept at holding up the ball and bringing others into play. He was often involved in the build up play and had a good eye for pass/through ball. The beauty with RVP was that he could play the no.9 or no.10 role to a very high level and often swapped between the two positions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In comparison to Firmino I meant. Firmino is back in midfield winning the ball, playing in other players, never stopping. Scoring is almost secondary. The teams played in very different ways and if you put Firmino into that United team it probably wouldn't have worked. Regardless, I'd have Firmino ahead of RvP.
------------------
I like Firminho TOOR - a very unselfish and hard working player with good all round ability. Horses for courses between him and RVP. I just didn't agree with the assessment that RVP was overrated because he was purely a goalscorer. He was actually quite creative when playing deeper.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say he was overrated because he was purely a goalscorer. I said he was overrated because he scored over 12 goals twice. Yet he was the main striker in his teams, a goalscorer, not like a false 9 who did much of the work to create the openings for the wide players. If you switched both players, our wide players wouldn't get near as many goals and Firmino wouldn't get the 30 needed for the striker on your team.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He wasn't the main striker in his teams. Before he joined Arsenal he played on the left usually. For Arsenal he played usually as the no.10 after Bergkamp retired with Henry ahead of him. When Henry retired he then became the main striker. At United him and Rooney often switched between 9 and 10. It was a great combination.
And he managed more than 12 league goals on 3 occasions not 2. The reason that he didn't manage it more time was because he was always injured. Even taking into account the injuries, and the fact he didn't always play as the main striker, he was still a 1 in 2 striker over the course of his PL career.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Three times? I counted two. Anyhow that's why I think he was overrated. As with King, you can't rate a player on what might have been if he wasnt always injured, only on what he was and what RvP was is a tier below top goalscorers apart from 2/3 seasons.
This however had no bearing on my choice of Firmino ahead of him.
----------------------
TOOR, he averaged a goal every 139.7 minutes on the pitch. That is the tenth best goals to minutes ratio in PL history. Suarez is only marginally better on 138.8 minutes. No-one is overrating RVP based on what he might have been had he not been injured a lot. He was an extremely good player who might have been even better if not for injuries, but even with the injuries, he was right up there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes all that is great but the times he wasnt on the pitch count also. It's a team game.
If it wasnt for injuries he may have been an all time top PL striker. However he had the injuries and as it stands he scored over 12 goals 2/3 times in all his time in the league and therefore he does compare. This is why I believe he was overrated. And that's not a term I fire around like half the people on the site.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So your argument is that he was overrated because he was injured a lot? Riiiiiiiiight.
Sometimes it is ok to just admit that you are wrong.
RvP was class. A street baller with insane technique.
My argument is what I said it was. If you want to change it into something you want it to be, if it makes you feel better, go right ahead, fill your boots but I'll let you read my argument again below.
He scored over 12 goals 2/3 times, in all his time in the league. He does not compare to the top PL strikers. For this reason, I believe he was overrated.
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
My argument is what I said it was. If you want to change it into something you want it to be, if it makes you feel better, go right ahead, fill your boots but I'll let you read my argument again below.
He scored over 12 goals 2/3 times, in all his time in the league. He does not compare to the top PL strikers. For this reason, I believe he was overrated.
------------------------
He wasn't overrated. He was injured a lot. You are also glossing over your grossly inaccurate statement that he played as his team's main striker. That simply isn't the reality for the majority of his time in the PL. And even then he has a better goals to minutes ratio than the likes of Cole, Shearer, Yorke, Owen, Fowler, Ole, Crespo, Costa, Zlatan etc.
You know that Robbie Fowler? He only managed more than 12 league goals on 4 occasions. Overrated.
There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
To be fair TOOR, that doesn't make a great deal of sense. It's not as if the people rating him highly don't know about what you've just said.
People rate him as one of the best based on what they saw in his significant time as a PL player.
The fact that he can't compare with the top PL strikers for one specific criteria that you have chosen doesn;t mean he is automatically overrated.
Van Persie is the one United player who absolutely has to be in there. Then there are some worth debating.
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
My argument is what I said it was. If you want to change it into something you want it to be, if it makes you feel better, go right ahead, fill your boots but I'll let you read my argument again below.
He scored over 12 goals 2/3 times, in all his time in the league. He does not compare to the top PL strikers. For this reason, I believe he was overrated.
------------------------
He wasn't overrated. He was injured a lot. You are also glossing over your grossly inaccurate statement that he played as his team's main striker. That simply isn't the reality for the majority of his time in the PL. And even then he has a better goals to minutes ratio than the likes of Cole, Shearer, Yorke, Owen, Fowler, Ole, Crespo, Costa, Zlatan etc.
You know that Robbie Fowler? He only managed more than 12 league goals on 4 occasions. Overrated.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes he was injured a lot so could have been rated, in my mind as highly as the top PL strikers if he wasn't but he was. If you rated that highly, fine. That's your opinion. Mine differs. Accept it.
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
My argument is what I said it was. If you want to change it into something you want it to be, if it makes you feel better, go right ahead, fill your boots but I'll let you read my argument again below.
He scored over 12 goals 2/3 times, in all his time in the league. He does not compare to the top PL strikers. For this reason, I believe he was overrated.
------------------------
He wasn't overrated. He was injured a lot. You are also glossing over your grossly inaccurate statement that he played as his team's main striker. That simply isn't the reality for the majority of his time in the PL. And even then he has a better goals to minutes ratio than the likes of Cole, Shearer, Yorke, Owen, Fowler, Ole, Crespo, Costa, Zlatan etc.
You know that Robbie Fowler? He only managed more than 12 league goals on 4 occasions. Overrated.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
fowler 330 games 171 goals = 0.51
rvp 278 games 132 goals = 0.47
"Mine differs. Accept it."
opps i forgot to add his united stats
383 games 190 goals = 0.49
Fowler >
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Adam 'The interview' Lallana (U20650)
posted 6 minutes ago
opps i forgot to add his united stats
383 games 190 goals = 0.49
Fowler >
----------------------------------------------------------------------
hahahaha..
forgot to add fowlers from his leeds, blackburn, city and 2nd liverpool spells too
anything to justify your argument
games in all comps for premiership teams
fowler - 500 games - 225 goals a goal every 2.22 games
RVP 383 games - 190 goals - a goal every 2.01
if your gonna fudge stats.. at least do it right.. stops you looking a diiiiiick
comment by Nostraduncus (U11713)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Adam 'The interview' Lallana (U20650)
posted 6 minutes ago
opps i forgot to add his united stats
383 games 190 goals = 0.49
Fowler >
----------------------------------------------------------------------
hahahaha..
forgot to add fowlers from his leeds, blackburn, city and 2nd liverpool spells too
anything to justify your argument
games in all comps for premiership teams
fowler - 500 games - 225 goals a goal every 2.22 games
RVP 383 games - 190 goals - a goal every 2.01
if your gonna fudge stats.. at least do it right.. stops you looking a diiiiiick
----------------------------------------------------------------------
you havent included the Feyenoord for his fenerbache games
Also fowler played is worse teams while rvp had everything given to him on a plate
comment by Adam 'The interview' Lallana (U20650)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
My argument is what I said it was. If you want to change it into something you want it to be, if it makes you feel better, go right ahead, fill your boots but I'll let you read my argument again below.
He scored over 12 goals 2/3 times, in all his time in the league. He does not compare to the top PL strikers. For this reason, I believe he was overrated.
------------------------
He wasn't overrated. He was injured a lot. You are also glossing over your grossly inaccurate statement that he played as his team's main striker. That simply isn't the reality for the majority of his time in the PL. And even then he has a better goals to minutes ratio than the likes of Cole, Shearer, Yorke, Owen, Fowler, Ole, Crespo, Costa, Zlatan etc.
You know that Robbie Fowler? He only managed more than 12 league goals on 4 occasions. Overrated.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
fowler 330 games 171 goals = 0.51
rvp 278 games 132 goals = 0.47
-------
What point are you trying to make?
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so the BBC
Page 7 of 8
6 | 7 | 8
posted on 18/10/19
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 51 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 1 hour, 2 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 10 minutes ago
Although, not really relevant to this article - I always found RvP to be overrated as he was purely a goalscorer but he scored over 12 goals twice, in the PL. He got a 26 and a 30 and all the rest were 12 and under.
------------------
Struggling to see how you think that RVP was only a goalscorer. He always chipped in with the assists and was very adept at holding up the ball and bringing others into play. He was often involved in the build up play and had a good eye for pass/through ball. The beauty with RVP was that he could play the no.9 or no.10 role to a very high level and often swapped between the two positions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In comparison to Firmino I meant. Firmino is back in midfield winning the ball, playing in other players, never stopping. Scoring is almost secondary. The teams played in very different ways and if you put Firmino into that United team it probably wouldn't have worked. Regardless, I'd have Firmino ahead of RvP.
------------------
I like Firminho TOOR - a very unselfish and hard working player with good all round ability. Horses for courses between him and RVP. I just didn't agree with the assessment that RVP was overrated because he was purely a goalscorer. He was actually quite creative when playing deeper.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say he was overrated because he was purely a goalscorer. I said he was overrated because he scored over 12 goals twice. Yet he was the main striker in his teams, a goalscorer, not like a false 9 who did much of the work to create the openings for the wide players. If you switched both players, our wide players wouldn't get near as many goals and Firmino wouldn't get the 30 needed for the striker on your team.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He wasn't the main striker in his teams. Before he joined Arsenal he played on the left usually. For Arsenal he played usually as the no.10 after Bergkamp retired with Henry ahead of him. When Henry retired he then became the main striker. At United him and Rooney often switched between 9 and 10. It was a great combination.
And he managed more than 12 league goals on 3 occasions not 2. The reason that he didn't manage it more time was because he was always injured. Even taking into account the injuries, and the fact he didn't always play as the main striker, he was still a 1 in 2 striker over the course of his PL career.
posted on 18/10/19
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
Come on TOOR - he obviously wasn't 'purely a goalscorer', as his assists stat show.
Fair?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe not purely a goalscorer but an out and out striker whose main role was to score goals.
--------------------------------
That is only true for 40% of his time in the PL. The rest he was either playing deeper or switching between the two roles.
posted on 18/10/19
There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
Fair enough.
My issue with that is that this is, I thought, a comparison between two players and the specific seasons they had.
Of course, their roles in the team are different.
So my decision was based on who was having the better season at the time, and I think RVP had one of the best seasons a striker has had in the league that year.
posted on 18/10/19
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 51 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 1 hour, 2 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 10 minutes ago
Although, not really relevant to this article - I always found RvP to be overrated as he was purely a goalscorer but he scored over 12 goals twice, in the PL. He got a 26 and a 30 and all the rest were 12 and under.
------------------
Struggling to see how you think that RVP was only a goalscorer. He always chipped in with the assists and was very adept at holding up the ball and bringing others into play. He was often involved in the build up play and had a good eye for pass/through ball. The beauty with RVP was that he could play the no.9 or no.10 role to a very high level and often swapped between the two positions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In comparison to Firmino I meant. Firmino is back in midfield winning the ball, playing in other players, never stopping. Scoring is almost secondary. The teams played in very different ways and if you put Firmino into that United team it probably wouldn't have worked. Regardless, I'd have Firmino ahead of RvP.
------------------
I like Firminho TOOR - a very unselfish and hard working player with good all round ability. Horses for courses between him and RVP. I just didn't agree with the assessment that RVP was overrated because he was purely a goalscorer. He was actually quite creative when playing deeper.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say he was overrated because he was purely a goalscorer. I said he was overrated because he scored over 12 goals twice. Yet he was the main striker in his teams, a goalscorer, not like a false 9 who did much of the work to create the openings for the wide players. If you switched both players, our wide players wouldn't get near as many goals and Firmino wouldn't get the 30 needed for the striker on your team.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He wasn't the main striker in his teams. Before he joined Arsenal he played on the left usually. For Arsenal he played usually as the no.10 after Bergkamp retired with Henry ahead of him. When Henry retired he then became the main striker. At United him and Rooney often switched between 9 and 10. It was a great combination.
And he managed more than 12 league goals on 3 occasions not 2. The reason that he didn't manage it more time was because he was always injured. Even taking into account the injuries, and the fact he didn't always play as the main striker, he was still a 1 in 2 striker over the course of his PL career.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Three times? I counted two. Anyhow that's why I think he was overrated. As with King, you can't rate a player on what might have been if he wasnt always injured, only on what he was and what RvP was is a tier below top goalscorers apart from 2/3 seasons.
This however had no bearing on my choice of Firmino ahead of him.
posted on 18/10/19
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 seconds ago
There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
Fair enough.
My issue with that is that this is, I thought, a comparison between two players and the specific seasons they had.
Of course, their roles in the team are different.
So my decision was based on who was having the better season at the time, and I think RVP had one of the best seasons a striker has had in the league that year.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well that wouldn't be fair considering RvP had a full season and Firmino has only had eight games.
posted on 18/10/19
strange thing for the BBC to do
shouldn't they do this comparison with the United teams from 94/5, 97/8, 05/6, 09/10, 11/12 or 17/18?
then when Liverpool actually with the PL they can do a combined from this Liverpool team and a United team from 92-94, 95-97, 98-01, 02/03, 06-09, 10/11, 12/13?
posted on 18/10/19
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 51 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 1 hour, 2 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 10 minutes ago
Although, not really relevant to this article - I always found RvP to be overrated as he was purely a goalscorer but he scored over 12 goals twice, in the PL. He got a 26 and a 30 and all the rest were 12 and under.
------------------
Struggling to see how you think that RVP was only a goalscorer. He always chipped in with the assists and was very adept at holding up the ball and bringing others into play. He was often involved in the build up play and had a good eye for pass/through ball. The beauty with RVP was that he could play the no.9 or no.10 role to a very high level and often swapped between the two positions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In comparison to Firmino I meant. Firmino is back in midfield winning the ball, playing in other players, never stopping. Scoring is almost secondary. The teams played in very different ways and if you put Firmino into that United team it probably wouldn't have worked. Regardless, I'd have Firmino ahead of RvP.
------------------
I like Firminho TOOR - a very unselfish and hard working player with good all round ability. Horses for courses between him and RVP. I just didn't agree with the assessment that RVP was overrated because he was purely a goalscorer. He was actually quite creative when playing deeper.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say he was overrated because he was purely a goalscorer. I said he was overrated because he scored over 12 goals twice. Yet he was the main striker in his teams, a goalscorer, not like a false 9 who did much of the work to create the openings for the wide players. If you switched both players, our wide players wouldn't get near as many goals and Firmino wouldn't get the 30 needed for the striker on your team.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He wasn't the main striker in his teams. Before he joined Arsenal he played on the left usually. For Arsenal he played usually as the no.10 after Bergkamp retired with Henry ahead of him. When Henry retired he then became the main striker. At United him and Rooney often switched between 9 and 10. It was a great combination.
And he managed more than 12 league goals on 3 occasions not 2. The reason that he didn't manage it more time was because he was always injured. Even taking into account the injuries, and the fact he didn't always play as the main striker, he was still a 1 in 2 striker over the course of his PL career.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Three times? I counted two. Anyhow that's why I think he was overrated. As with King, you can't rate a player on what might have been if he wasnt always injured, only on what he was and what RvP was is a tier below top goalscorers apart from 2/3 seasons.
This however had no bearing on my choice of Firmino ahead of him.
----------------------
TOOR, he averaged a goal every 139.7 minutes on the pitch. That is the tenth best goals to minutes ratio in PL history. Suarez is only marginally better on 138.8 minutes. No-one is overrating RVP based on what he might have been had he not been injured a lot. He was an extremely good player who might have been even better if not for injuries, but even with the injuries, he was right up there.
posted on 18/10/19
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 seconds ago
There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
Fair enough.
My issue with that is that this is, I thought, a comparison between two players and the specific seasons they had.
Of course, their roles in the team are different.
So my decision was based on who was having the better season at the time, and I think RVP had one of the best seasons a striker has had in the league that year.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well that wouldn't be fair considering RvP had a full season and Firmino has only had eight games.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well yes, the BBC article is somewhat flawed - but I think you'd probably take last season into account as well, for Firmino.
posted on 18/10/19
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 51 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 1 hour, 2 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 10 minutes ago
Although, not really relevant to this article - I always found RvP to be overrated as he was purely a goalscorer but he scored over 12 goals twice, in the PL. He got a 26 and a 30 and all the rest were 12 and under.
------------------
Struggling to see how you think that RVP was only a goalscorer. He always chipped in with the assists and was very adept at holding up the ball and bringing others into play. He was often involved in the build up play and had a good eye for pass/through ball. The beauty with RVP was that he could play the no.9 or no.10 role to a very high level and often swapped between the two positions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In comparison to Firmino I meant. Firmino is back in midfield winning the ball, playing in other players, never stopping. Scoring is almost secondary. The teams played in very different ways and if you put Firmino into that United team it probably wouldn't have worked. Regardless, I'd have Firmino ahead of RvP.
------------------
I like Firminho TOOR - a very unselfish and hard working player with good all round ability. Horses for courses between him and RVP. I just didn't agree with the assessment that RVP was overrated because he was purely a goalscorer. He was actually quite creative when playing deeper.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say he was overrated because he was purely a goalscorer. I said he was overrated because he scored over 12 goals twice. Yet he was the main striker in his teams, a goalscorer, not like a false 9 who did much of the work to create the openings for the wide players. If you switched both players, our wide players wouldn't get near as many goals and Firmino wouldn't get the 30 needed for the striker on your team.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He wasn't the main striker in his teams. Before he joined Arsenal he played on the left usually. For Arsenal he played usually as the no.10 after Bergkamp retired with Henry ahead of him. When Henry retired he then became the main striker. At United him and Rooney often switched between 9 and 10. It was a great combination.
And he managed more than 12 league goals on 3 occasions not 2. The reason that he didn't manage it more time was because he was always injured. Even taking into account the injuries, and the fact he didn't always play as the main striker, he was still a 1 in 2 striker over the course of his PL career.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Three times? I counted two. Anyhow that's why I think he was overrated. As with King, you can't rate a player on what might have been if he wasnt always injured, only on what he was and what RvP was is a tier below top goalscorers apart from 2/3 seasons.
This however had no bearing on my choice of Firmino ahead of him.
----------------------
TOOR, he averaged a goal every 139.7 minutes on the pitch. That is the tenth best goals to minutes ratio in PL history. Suarez is only marginally better on 138.8 minutes. No-one is overrating RVP based on what he might have been had he not been injured a lot. He was an extremely good player who might have been even better if not for injuries, but even with the injuries, he was right up there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes all that is great but the times he wasnt on the pitch count also. It's a team game.
If it wasnt for injuries he may have been an all time top PL striker. However he had the injuries and as it stands he scored over 12 goals 2/3 times in all his time in the league and therefore he does compare. This is why I believe he was overrated. And that's not a term I fire around like half the people on the site.
posted on 18/10/19
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 41 seconds ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 51 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 1 hour, 2 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 10 minutes ago
Although, not really relevant to this article - I always found RvP to be overrated as he was purely a goalscorer but he scored over 12 goals twice, in the PL. He got a 26 and a 30 and all the rest were 12 and under.
------------------
Struggling to see how you think that RVP was only a goalscorer. He always chipped in with the assists and was very adept at holding up the ball and bringing others into play. He was often involved in the build up play and had a good eye for pass/through ball. The beauty with RVP was that he could play the no.9 or no.10 role to a very high level and often swapped between the two positions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In comparison to Firmino I meant. Firmino is back in midfield winning the ball, playing in other players, never stopping. Scoring is almost secondary. The teams played in very different ways and if you put Firmino into that United team it probably wouldn't have worked. Regardless, I'd have Firmino ahead of RvP.
------------------
I like Firminho TOOR - a very unselfish and hard working player with good all round ability. Horses for courses between him and RVP. I just didn't agree with the assessment that RVP was overrated because he was purely a goalscorer. He was actually quite creative when playing deeper.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say he was overrated because he was purely a goalscorer. I said he was overrated because he scored over 12 goals twice. Yet he was the main striker in his teams, a goalscorer, not like a false 9 who did much of the work to create the openings for the wide players. If you switched both players, our wide players wouldn't get near as many goals and Firmino wouldn't get the 30 needed for the striker on your team.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He wasn't the main striker in his teams. Before he joined Arsenal he played on the left usually. For Arsenal he played usually as the no.10 after Bergkamp retired with Henry ahead of him. When Henry retired he then became the main striker. At United him and Rooney often switched between 9 and 10. It was a great combination.
And he managed more than 12 league goals on 3 occasions not 2. The reason that he didn't manage it more time was because he was always injured. Even taking into account the injuries, and the fact he didn't always play as the main striker, he was still a 1 in 2 striker over the course of his PL career.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Three times? I counted two. Anyhow that's why I think he was overrated. As with King, you can't rate a player on what might have been if he wasnt always injured, only on what he was and what RvP was is a tier below top goalscorers apart from 2/3 seasons.
This however had no bearing on my choice of Firmino ahead of him.
----------------------
TOOR, he averaged a goal every 139.7 minutes on the pitch. That is the tenth best goals to minutes ratio in PL history. Suarez is only marginally better on 138.8 minutes. No-one is overrating RVP based on what he might have been had he not been injured a lot. He was an extremely good player who might have been even better if not for injuries, but even with the injuries, he was right up there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes all that is great but the times he wasnt on the pitch count also. It's a team game.
If it wasnt for injuries he may have been an all time top PL striker. However he had the injuries and as it stands he scored over 12 goals 2/3 times in all his time in the league and therefore he does compare. This is why I believe he was overrated. And that's not a term I fire around like half the people on the site.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So your argument is that he was overrated because he was injured a lot? Riiiiiiiiight.
Sometimes it is ok to just admit that you are wrong.
posted on 18/10/19
RvP was class. A street baller with insane technique.
posted on 18/10/19
My argument is what I said it was. If you want to change it into something you want it to be, if it makes you feel better, go right ahead, fill your boots but I'll let you read my argument again below.
He scored over 12 goals 2/3 times, in all his time in the league. He does not compare to the top PL strikers. For this reason, I believe he was overrated.
posted on 18/10/19
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
My argument is what I said it was. If you want to change it into something you want it to be, if it makes you feel better, go right ahead, fill your boots but I'll let you read my argument again below.
He scored over 12 goals 2/3 times, in all his time in the league. He does not compare to the top PL strikers. For this reason, I believe he was overrated.
------------------------
He wasn't overrated. He was injured a lot. You are also glossing over your grossly inaccurate statement that he played as his team's main striker. That simply isn't the reality for the majority of his time in the PL. And even then he has a better goals to minutes ratio than the likes of Cole, Shearer, Yorke, Owen, Fowler, Ole, Crespo, Costa, Zlatan etc.
You know that Robbie Fowler? He only managed more than 12 league goals on 4 occasions. Overrated.
posted on 18/10/19
There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
To be fair TOOR, that doesn't make a great deal of sense. It's not as if the people rating him highly don't know about what you've just said.
People rate him as one of the best based on what they saw in his significant time as a PL player.
The fact that he can't compare with the top PL strikers for one specific criteria that you have chosen doesn;t mean he is automatically overrated.
posted on 18/10/19
Van Persie is the one United player who absolutely has to be in there. Then there are some worth debating.
posted on 18/10/19
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
My argument is what I said it was. If you want to change it into something you want it to be, if it makes you feel better, go right ahead, fill your boots but I'll let you read my argument again below.
He scored over 12 goals 2/3 times, in all his time in the league. He does not compare to the top PL strikers. For this reason, I believe he was overrated.
------------------------
He wasn't overrated. He was injured a lot. You are also glossing over your grossly inaccurate statement that he played as his team's main striker. That simply isn't the reality for the majority of his time in the PL. And even then he has a better goals to minutes ratio than the likes of Cole, Shearer, Yorke, Owen, Fowler, Ole, Crespo, Costa, Zlatan etc.
You know that Robbie Fowler? He only managed more than 12 league goals on 4 occasions. Overrated.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes he was injured a lot so could have been rated, in my mind as highly as the top PL strikers if he wasn't but he was. If you rated that highly, fine. That's your opinion. Mine differs. Accept it.
posted on 18/10/19
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
My argument is what I said it was. If you want to change it into something you want it to be, if it makes you feel better, go right ahead, fill your boots but I'll let you read my argument again below.
He scored over 12 goals 2/3 times, in all his time in the league. He does not compare to the top PL strikers. For this reason, I believe he was overrated.
------------------------
He wasn't overrated. He was injured a lot. You are also glossing over your grossly inaccurate statement that he played as his team's main striker. That simply isn't the reality for the majority of his time in the PL. And even then he has a better goals to minutes ratio than the likes of Cole, Shearer, Yorke, Owen, Fowler, Ole, Crespo, Costa, Zlatan etc.
You know that Robbie Fowler? He only managed more than 12 league goals on 4 occasions. Overrated.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
fowler 330 games 171 goals = 0.51
rvp 278 games 132 goals = 0.47
posted on 18/10/19
"Mine differs. Accept it."
posted on 18/10/19
opps i forgot to add his united stats
383 games 190 goals = 0.49
Fowler >
posted on 18/10/19
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 18/10/19
comment by Adam 'The interview' Lallana (U20650)
posted 6 minutes ago
opps i forgot to add his united stats
383 games 190 goals = 0.49
Fowler >
----------------------------------------------------------------------
hahahaha..
forgot to add fowlers from his leeds, blackburn, city and 2nd liverpool spells too
anything to justify your argument
games in all comps for premiership teams
fowler - 500 games - 225 goals a goal every 2.22 games
RVP 383 games - 190 goals - a goal every 2.01
if your gonna fudge stats.. at least do it right.. stops you looking a diiiiiick
posted on 18/10/19
comment by Nostraduncus (U11713)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Adam 'The interview' Lallana (U20650)
posted 6 minutes ago
opps i forgot to add his united stats
383 games 190 goals = 0.49
Fowler >
----------------------------------------------------------------------
hahahaha..
forgot to add fowlers from his leeds, blackburn, city and 2nd liverpool spells too
anything to justify your argument
games in all comps for premiership teams
fowler - 500 games - 225 goals a goal every 2.22 games
RVP 383 games - 190 goals - a goal every 2.01
if your gonna fudge stats.. at least do it right.. stops you looking a diiiiiick
----------------------------------------------------------------------
you havent included the Feyenoord for his fenerbache games
posted on 18/10/19
or*
posted on 18/10/19
Also fowler played is worse teams while rvp had everything given to him on a plate
posted on 18/10/19
comment by Adam 'The interview' Lallana (U20650)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
My argument is what I said it was. If you want to change it into something you want it to be, if it makes you feel better, go right ahead, fill your boots but I'll let you read my argument again below.
He scored over 12 goals 2/3 times, in all his time in the league. He does not compare to the top PL strikers. For this reason, I believe he was overrated.
------------------------
He wasn't overrated. He was injured a lot. You are also glossing over your grossly inaccurate statement that he played as his team's main striker. That simply isn't the reality for the majority of his time in the PL. And even then he has a better goals to minutes ratio than the likes of Cole, Shearer, Yorke, Owen, Fowler, Ole, Crespo, Costa, Zlatan etc.
You know that Robbie Fowler? He only managed more than 12 league goals on 4 occasions. Overrated.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
fowler 330 games 171 goals = 0.51
rvp 278 games 132 goals = 0.47
-------
What point are you trying to make?
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