James is not of premier league standard, speed is just not sufficient.
Think we missed Forshaw at centre mid.
I have said over and over how much I rate Klichy but yesterday he was very poor, Jonty I am not sure why you could not see that one of the reasons why Watford were able to carve us open at times was because Klich and Koch were not able to get any control. his weakest display since Marsch came to the club.
Midfield was a mess, Els, but only because we were hoofing it out of defence and chasing down the Watford defence. As with Wolves, we scored from their mistakes. Llorente was also a worry, but set against this is the surge in team spirit. We looked like we wanted this more than Watford did and, man for man, we had the better players for the job. The added bonus of Burnley losing to Norwich makes this a significant step towards our survival. Oh, and happy birthday to Pablo and to me on April 11!
Midfield was a mess, Els.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely, but Jonty reckons Klich had a good game, zero control and he was run ragged by their midfield, too many misplaced passes. Wonder if he was watching a different game to me.
Interesting that Jonty doesn't mention Greenwood or Summerville but then he's in the kids aren't good enough camp.
Lucky v Norwich and Wolves?
What was lucky about it? We deserved to win v Norwich and Wolves let us back in the game and we played out of our skins for half an hour….we earned those points
Points over performance!
Some of the play from both sides was League one standard.
comment by Elsbels - The Specials' One (U21658)
posted 18 minutes ago
Interesting that Jonty doesn't mention Greenwood or Summerville but then he's in the kids aren't good enough camp.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Summerville played for 7 minutes
I didn't mention Meslier either, it's just my thoughts from yesterday, not war and peace.
comment by steross17 (U6898)
posted 3 minutes ago
Points over performance!
Some of the play from both sides was League one standard.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
exactly....does it give any insights to what style might lie ahead?
Yet the match of the day pundits praised Koch and Klich for their defensive shape in Jesse's zonal marking plan.
Certainly is a game of different opinions and to add to that I think we fully deserved the 10 points from the last 4 games
comment by Elsbels - The Specials' One (U21658)
posted 1 hour, 9 minutes ago
Interesting that Jonty doesn't mention Greenwood or Summerville but then he's in the kids aren't good enough camp.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Glad you mentioned them. Despite their small number of minutes, I think both affected the game and both contributed.
That's the first time I've seen either of them show anything at all in the first team squad. Glad they did!
That's the first time I've seen either of them show anything at all in the first team squad.
------
Exactly, Summerville especially been very overhyped based on actual performances.
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 29 minutes ago
That's the first time I've seen either of them show anything at all in the first team squad.
------
Exactly, Summerville especially been very overhyped based on actual performances.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No Jonty you haven't seen him play other than a few minutes here and there for the first team so therefore you cannot say he has been overhyped. How many players come on as substitutes for any team make a difference. Very few. You could argue that certainly Greenwood and possibly Summerville had more of an impact than Kalvin did at the weekend.
If you get chance watch the U23's game against Palace or the cup match this afternoon (I cannot guarantee he will get minutes). Yes these are against other academies but West Ham's academy is a quality outfit.
These kids do have the potential to be good enough.
Put Klich in with good players and he shines. Koch is a good player, just not in that position. We were often on top of each other and unable to gather the ball and use it well.
Meslier, Llorente, Harrison and Dallas all seem to be off the mark at the moment. And that’s even with H scoring at the mo.
But I am super impressed by James and Rodrigo. James always puts in a huge shift and his desire got us our first goal.
Thought Greenwood was very impressive, and Summerville showed he does have something - we’ve just not seen it yet. He may replace Raph next year and we might buy that proper 10 eventually
comment by Elsbels - The Specials' One (U21658)
posted 58 minutes ago
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 29 minutes ago
That's the first time I've seen either of them show anything at all in the first team squad.
------
Exactly, Summerville especially been very overhyped based on actual performances.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No Jonty you haven't seen him play other than a few minutes here and there for the first team so therefore you cannot say he has been overhyped. How many players come on as substitutes for any team make a difference. Very few. You could argue that certainly Greenwood and possibly Summerville had more of an impact than Kalvin did at the weekend.
If you get chance watch the U23's game against Palace or the cup match this afternoon (I cannot guarantee he will get minutes). Yes these are against other academies but West Ham's academy is a quality outfit.
These kids do have the potential to be good enough.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ive never said that they dont have potential to be good enough, what I have said is that they';re to good enough yet.
I've seen all the minute Summerville has played for first team plus more, so give it a rest eh.
comment by Long Short Tall 666 (U19233)
posted 23 minutes ago
Put Klich in with good players and he shines. Koch is a good player, just not in that position. We were often on top of each other and unable to gather the ball and use it well.
Meslier, Llorente, Harrison and Dallas all seem to be off the mark at the moment. And that’s even with H scoring at the mo.
But I am super impressed by James and Rodrigo. James always puts in a huge shift and his desire got us our first goal.
Thought Greenwood was very impressive, and Summerville showed he does have something - we’ve just not seen it yet. He may replace Raph next year and we might buy that proper 10 eventually
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I felt the on top of each other thing too, funny that pundits thought that was a positive (proximity of players), I guess there's a balance somewhere.
Re James, I think for price tag, we need more than just pace and effort, I'm expecting a bit more end product and not have to wait for it with that price tag.
Perhaps the end product comes when there is a target and thats where Rodrigo should come in, he looked like a striker on Saturday.
My thoughts on the youngsters is they need to go out on loan next season, for a whole season, to a good championship club to get some proper match time at a higher level than U23s.
Or do those that watch them more regularly than me think they're ready to step up to Prem standard next season? No sarcasm, or having a go - genuine question, i'd value your thoughts.
Wouldn't mind seeing Koch and Cooper together as a defence partnership. Llorente us not playing too well at the moment and Koch gives us a bit more height there too.
Next season, five substitutes will be permitted. We can expect to see more of the younger players getting minutes. If Raphinha goes, its possible we might see
Summerville given a run while we seek out a replacement.
Either way, it’s only when these kids are given a proper run out in consecutive games that we will be able to see their potential. Greater physicality is what they maybe lack at the moment lack, something which is a necessity at the highest level. Although exceptionally talented, it is Jude Bellingham’s physical strength for such a young age which is often commented on as
well as his talent, and although younger some of our lads could aspire to showing they can have a physical presence and make it to the top.
Either way, it’s only when these kids are given a proper run out in consecutive games that we will be able to see their potential.
------
Exactly, and this is why Bielsa' policy of hardly any minutes on pitch, didn't help any of those players and I'm not sure we've seen a shift in that yet from Marsch.
We still have Poveda for 2 more seasons, a natural replacement for Raphinha, when back from his injuries......
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 55 minutes ago
Either way, it’s only when these kids are given a proper run out in consecutive games that we will be able to see their potential.
------
Exactly, and this is why Bielsa' policy of hardly any minutes on pitch, didn't help any of those players and I'm not sure we've seen a shift in that yet from Marsch.
We still have Poveda for 2 more seasons, a natural replacement for Raphinha, when back from his injuries......
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I really don't think Poveda is a replacement for Raph!
From what I've seen of him, he looks good, but no real end result - a bit like Roberts. Unless he's improved markedly during his absence we need to be looking at a proper replacement for Raph, not him.
Didn't think they really carved us open, they missed a very good chance where we let them in, but apart from that I thought I we looked way more dangerious than tham. They are battling to stay up, they are never easy games.
Next season I would send Someville out on loan to L1/Champ, let him get some proper football under his belt and then see what happens.
We need a proper replacement for Raph if he's going, I'm taking marquee signing, proven, right age and ready to get us goals and assists, a game changer.
The most dangerous thing we do is give away silly free kicks just outside our penalty area. A top side would punish us there. We need to stop that.
I really don't think Poveda is a replacement for Raph!
------
Come on, did you really think that was serious?
my thoughts on yesterday was that both cooper and llorente were solid as was ayling. dallas a bit of an off day.
meslier was a mess. maybe the worst distribution ive seen from him this season. surely that can be worked on because hes a very good keeper.
mid was non existent including phillips. greenwood fit in nicely.
knew exactly what watford could deliver and we handled it quite well. much of our problems were self afflicted. passes with no pressure on the passer were going to watford players. we handled them as well as liverpool did.
Sign in if you want to comment
Some thoughts from yesterday
Page 1 of 2
posted on 10/4/22
James is not of premier league standard, speed is just not sufficient.
Think we missed Forshaw at centre mid.
I have said over and over how much I rate Klichy but yesterday he was very poor, Jonty I am not sure why you could not see that one of the reasons why Watford were able to carve us open at times was because Klich and Koch were not able to get any control. his weakest display since Marsch came to the club.
posted on 10/4/22
Midfield was a mess, Els, but only because we were hoofing it out of defence and chasing down the Watford defence. As with Wolves, we scored from their mistakes. Llorente was also a worry, but set against this is the surge in team spirit. We looked like we wanted this more than Watford did and, man for man, we had the better players for the job. The added bonus of Burnley losing to Norwich makes this a significant step towards our survival. Oh, and happy birthday to Pablo and to me on April 11!
posted on 10/4/22
Midfield was a mess, Els.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely, but Jonty reckons Klich had a good game, zero control and he was run ragged by their midfield, too many misplaced passes. Wonder if he was watching a different game to me.
posted on 10/4/22
Interesting that Jonty doesn't mention Greenwood or Summerville but then he's in the kids aren't good enough camp.
posted on 10/4/22
Lucky v Norwich and Wolves?
What was lucky about it? We deserved to win v Norwich and Wolves let us back in the game and we played out of our skins for half an hour….we earned those points
posted on 10/4/22
Points over performance!
Some of the play from both sides was League one standard.
posted on 10/4/22
comment by Elsbels - The Specials' One (U21658)
posted 18 minutes ago
Interesting that Jonty doesn't mention Greenwood or Summerville but then he's in the kids aren't good enough camp.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Summerville played for 7 minutes
I didn't mention Meslier either, it's just my thoughts from yesterday, not war and peace.
posted on 10/4/22
comment by steross17 (U6898)
posted 3 minutes ago
Points over performance!
Some of the play from both sides was League one standard.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
exactly....does it give any insights to what style might lie ahead?
posted on 10/4/22
Yet the match of the day pundits praised Koch and Klich for their defensive shape in Jesse's zonal marking plan.
Certainly is a game of different opinions and to add to that I think we fully deserved the 10 points from the last 4 games
posted on 10/4/22
comment by Elsbels - The Specials' One (U21658)
posted 1 hour, 9 minutes ago
Interesting that Jonty doesn't mention Greenwood or Summerville but then he's in the kids aren't good enough camp.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Glad you mentioned them. Despite their small number of minutes, I think both affected the game and both contributed.
That's the first time I've seen either of them show anything at all in the first team squad. Glad they did!
posted on 11/4/22
That's the first time I've seen either of them show anything at all in the first team squad.
------
Exactly, Summerville especially been very overhyped based on actual performances.
posted on 11/4/22
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 29 minutes ago
That's the first time I've seen either of them show anything at all in the first team squad.
------
Exactly, Summerville especially been very overhyped based on actual performances.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No Jonty you haven't seen him play other than a few minutes here and there for the first team so therefore you cannot say he has been overhyped. How many players come on as substitutes for any team make a difference. Very few. You could argue that certainly Greenwood and possibly Summerville had more of an impact than Kalvin did at the weekend.
If you get chance watch the U23's game against Palace or the cup match this afternoon (I cannot guarantee he will get minutes). Yes these are against other academies but West Ham's academy is a quality outfit.
These kids do have the potential to be good enough.
posted on 11/4/22
Put Klich in with good players and he shines. Koch is a good player, just not in that position. We were often on top of each other and unable to gather the ball and use it well.
Meslier, Llorente, Harrison and Dallas all seem to be off the mark at the moment. And that’s even with H scoring at the mo.
But I am super impressed by James and Rodrigo. James always puts in a huge shift and his desire got us our first goal.
Thought Greenwood was very impressive, and Summerville showed he does have something - we’ve just not seen it yet. He may replace Raph next year and we might buy that proper 10 eventually
posted on 11/4/22
comment by Elsbels - The Specials' One (U21658)
posted 58 minutes ago
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 29 minutes ago
That's the first time I've seen either of them show anything at all in the first team squad.
------
Exactly, Summerville especially been very overhyped based on actual performances.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No Jonty you haven't seen him play other than a few minutes here and there for the first team so therefore you cannot say he has been overhyped. How many players come on as substitutes for any team make a difference. Very few. You could argue that certainly Greenwood and possibly Summerville had more of an impact than Kalvin did at the weekend.
If you get chance watch the U23's game against Palace or the cup match this afternoon (I cannot guarantee he will get minutes). Yes these are against other academies but West Ham's academy is a quality outfit.
These kids do have the potential to be good enough.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ive never said that they dont have potential to be good enough, what I have said is that they';re to good enough yet.
I've seen all the minute Summerville has played for first team plus more, so give it a rest eh.
posted on 11/4/22
comment by Long Short Tall 666 (U19233)
posted 23 minutes ago
Put Klich in with good players and he shines. Koch is a good player, just not in that position. We were often on top of each other and unable to gather the ball and use it well.
Meslier, Llorente, Harrison and Dallas all seem to be off the mark at the moment. And that’s even with H scoring at the mo.
But I am super impressed by James and Rodrigo. James always puts in a huge shift and his desire got us our first goal.
Thought Greenwood was very impressive, and Summerville showed he does have something - we’ve just not seen it yet. He may replace Raph next year and we might buy that proper 10 eventually
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I felt the on top of each other thing too, funny that pundits thought that was a positive (proximity of players), I guess there's a balance somewhere.
Re James, I think for price tag, we need more than just pace and effort, I'm expecting a bit more end product and not have to wait for it with that price tag.
Perhaps the end product comes when there is a target and thats where Rodrigo should come in, he looked like a striker on Saturday.
posted on 11/4/22
My thoughts on the youngsters is they need to go out on loan next season, for a whole season, to a good championship club to get some proper match time at a higher level than U23s.
Or do those that watch them more regularly than me think they're ready to step up to Prem standard next season? No sarcasm, or having a go - genuine question, i'd value your thoughts.
posted on 11/4/22
Wouldn't mind seeing Koch and Cooper together as a defence partnership. Llorente us not playing too well at the moment and Koch gives us a bit more height there too.
posted on 11/4/22
Next season, five substitutes will be permitted. We can expect to see more of the younger players getting minutes. If Raphinha goes, its possible we might see
Summerville given a run while we seek out a replacement.
Either way, it’s only when these kids are given a proper run out in consecutive games that we will be able to see their potential. Greater physicality is what they maybe lack at the moment lack, something which is a necessity at the highest level. Although exceptionally talented, it is Jude Bellingham’s physical strength for such a young age which is often commented on as
well as his talent, and although younger some of our lads could aspire to showing they can have a physical presence and make it to the top.
posted on 11/4/22
Either way, it’s only when these kids are given a proper run out in consecutive games that we will be able to see their potential.
------
Exactly, and this is why Bielsa' policy of hardly any minutes on pitch, didn't help any of those players and I'm not sure we've seen a shift in that yet from Marsch.
We still have Poveda for 2 more seasons, a natural replacement for Raphinha, when back from his injuries......
posted on 11/4/22
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 55 minutes ago
Either way, it’s only when these kids are given a proper run out in consecutive games that we will be able to see their potential.
------
Exactly, and this is why Bielsa' policy of hardly any minutes on pitch, didn't help any of those players and I'm not sure we've seen a shift in that yet from Marsch.
We still have Poveda for 2 more seasons, a natural replacement for Raphinha, when back from his injuries......
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I really don't think Poveda is a replacement for Raph!
From what I've seen of him, he looks good, but no real end result - a bit like Roberts. Unless he's improved markedly during his absence we need to be looking at a proper replacement for Raph, not him.
posted on 11/4/22
Didn't think they really carved us open, they missed a very good chance where we let them in, but apart from that I thought I we looked way more dangerious than tham. They are battling to stay up, they are never easy games.
posted on 11/4/22
Next season I would send Someville out on loan to L1/Champ, let him get some proper football under his belt and then see what happens.
We need a proper replacement for Raph if he's going, I'm taking marquee signing, proven, right age and ready to get us goals and assists, a game changer.
posted on 11/4/22
The most dangerous thing we do is give away silly free kicks just outside our penalty area. A top side would punish us there. We need to stop that.
posted on 11/4/22
I really don't think Poveda is a replacement for Raph!
------
Come on, did you really think that was serious?
posted on 11/4/22
my thoughts on yesterday was that both cooper and llorente were solid as was ayling. dallas a bit of an off day.
meslier was a mess. maybe the worst distribution ive seen from him this season. surely that can be worked on because hes a very good keeper.
mid was non existent including phillips. greenwood fit in nicely.
knew exactly what watford could deliver and we handled it quite well. much of our problems were self afflicted. passes with no pressure on the passer were going to watford players. we handled them as well as liverpool did.
Page 1 of 2