comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 hour, 5 minutes ago
Surely Brexit and 12 years of Conservative rule is just democracy in action.
Cameron is a coward for not sticking around to deal with the Leave mess but ultimately it was the Remain camp that failed to tap in what should have been a pretty open goal. Corbyn and his ambiguous stance on brexit is as culpable as anyone, a man who voted against remaining part of the EU in his earlier career. He had a clear conflict of interest in his mind, despite Labours traditional pro-european stance.
If you take a stance that the Party or Country should follow a certain path, and are then defeated, you wouldnt expect that leader/PM to then lead with a policy that they campaigned against, not at such a fundamental level as Brexit. Cameron's position was untenable, but he couldnt get out of the door quick enough.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Define 'democracy'.
The Leave campaign was found to be illegally funded; spent the funds it generated unlawfully (breaking electoral law); was built, demonstrably, on a raft of lies; and was only advisory in nature.
Plus there were myriad options in terms of the UK's future relationship with the EU. Unfortunately, the Tories decided to opt for a model and a deal which was close to being as economically damaging to the UK as could be imagined.
They literally chose and negotiated a deal which has, by their own calculations, shaved an unrecoverable 4% off GDP over the long term and seen £1tn in assets leave the City.
Consider that against the fact that agriculture and fishing, which the Leave campaign was so vocal about protecting, contribute combined around 0.5% of the UK's national GDP.
Let that sink in: All farming and all fishing activities account for ONE EIGHTH of what has already been lost.
They cheated to fund their campaign, they sold a lie, they acted on a non-binding, advisory referendum, then they chose pretty much the worst option available to the UK beyond complete economic isolation from the EU.
Democracy in action?
*account for the equivalent of
comment by Rosso out here drippin’ in finesse (U17054)
posted 2 hours, 18 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 hour, 5 minutes ago
Surely Brexit and 12 years of Conservative rule is just democracy in action.
Cameron is a coward for not sticking around to deal with the Leave mess but ultimately it was the Remain camp that failed to tap in what should have been a pretty open goal. Corbyn and his ambiguous stance on brexit is as culpable as anyone, a man who voted against remaining part of the EU in his earlier career. He had a clear conflict of interest in his mind, despite Labours traditional pro-european stance.
If you take a stance that the Party or Country should follow a certain path, and are then defeated, you wouldnt expect that leader/PM to then lead with a policy that they campaigned against, not at such a fundamental level as Brexit. Cameron's position was untenable, but he couldnt get out of the door quick enough.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Define 'democracy'.
The Leave campaign was found to be illegally funded; spent the funds it generated unlawfully (breaking electoral law); was built, demonstrably, on a raft of lies; and was only advisory in nature.
Plus there were myriad options in terms of the UK's future relationship with the EU. Unfortunately, the Tories decided to opt for a model and a deal which was close to being as economically damaging to the UK as could be imagined.
They literally chose and negotiated a deal which has, by their own calculations, shaved an unrecoverable 4% off GDP over the long term and seen £1tn in assets leave the City.
Consider that against the fact that agriculture and fishing, which the Leave campaign was so vocal about protecting, contribute combined around 0.5% of the UK's national GDP.
Let that sink in: All farming and all fishing activities account for ONE EIGHTH of what has already been lost.
They cheated to fund their campaign, they sold a lie, they acted on a non-binding, advisory referendum, then they chose pretty much the worst option available to the UK beyond complete economic isolation from the EU.
Democracy in action?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Excellent summation
None of that gets away from Remain doing a shiiit job in convincing or engaging the nation on the importance of the EU to the average person. There was complacency across the board from Cameron to Corbyn, and taping into some basic xenophobia of the average person was an easy target for Leave.
Yes Leave ran an aggressive and dirty campaign and while you may think that Joe Public was misinformed, Remain failed to either counter this effectively or recognise the possibility of losing was very real and engage enough Remainers to vote.
BTW you dont need me to define democracy or remind you that a GE was held pretty much on the one Brexit issue and the Tories landslide it.
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 57 seconds ago
None of that gets away from Remain doing a shiiit job in convincing or engaging the nation on the importance of the EU to the average person. There was complacency across the board from Cameron to Corbyn, and taping into some basic xenophobia of the average person was an easy target for Leave.
Yes Leave ran an aggressive and dirty campaign and while you may think that Joe Public was misinformed, Remain failed to either counter this effectively or recognise the possibility of losing was very real and engage enough Remainers to vote.
BTW you dont need me to define democracy or remind you that a GE was held pretty much on the one Brexit issue and the Tories landslide it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There was mass complacency in hindsight, similar with the US 2016 Election. I’m happy to admit I never thought Leave would actually win, not in a million years.
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 9 minutes ago
None of that gets away from Remain doing a shiiit job in convincing or engaging the nation on the importance of the EU to the average person. There was complacency across the board from Cameron to Corbyn, and taping into some basic xenophobia of the average person was an easy target for Leave.
Yes Leave ran an aggressive and dirty campaign and while you may think that Joe Public was misinformed, Remain failed to either counter this effectively or recognise the possibility of losing was very real and engage enough Remainers to vote.
BTW you dont need me to define democracy or remind you that a GE was held pretty much on the one Brexit issue and the Tories landslide it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bit hard to counter outright lies when people are stupid enough to believe them and dismiss your position as project fear because they can't handle being told that what they believe is categorically incorrect.
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 9 minutes ago
None of that gets away from Remain doing a shiiit job in convincing or engaging the nation on the importance of the EU to the average person. There was complacency across the board from Cameron to Corbyn, and taping into some basic xenophobia of the average person was an easy target for Leave.
Yes Leave ran an aggressive and dirty campaign and while you may think that Joe Public was misinformed, Remain failed to either counter this effectively or recognise the possibility of losing was very real and engage enough Remainers to vote.
BTW you dont need me to define democracy or remind you that a GE was held pretty much on the one Brexit issue and the Tories landslide it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bit hard to counter outright lies when people are stupid enough to believe them and dismiss your position as project fear because they can't handle being told that what they believe is categorically incorrect.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In a nutshell
“…aggressive and dirty campaign…”
It was literally an illegal campaign, built on lies.
The Remain campaign didn’t break electoral law, and presented to the public pretty facking clearly the facts about the impacts of leaving (which were widely ignored and/or dismissed as scaremongering by the Leave campaign, despite the govt’s own advisers and consultants telling them the very same thing) and best available projections about the economic costs.
I’m not sure what else people really wanted them to do, other than break the law themselves.
But there is one campaign, and one campaign alone, responsible for the UK voting to leave the EU, and that is the Leave campaign. Attempting to lay any responsibility at the feet of the Remain campaign I am going to be kind and suggest is simply disingenuous.
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 9 minutes ago
None of that gets away from Remain doing a shiiit job in convincing or engaging the nation on the importance of the EU to the average person. There was complacency across the board from Cameron to Corbyn, and taping into some basic xenophobia of the average person was an easy target for Leave.
Yes Leave ran an aggressive and dirty campaign and while you may think that Joe Public was misinformed, Remain failed to either counter this effectively or recognise the possibility of losing was very real and engage enough Remainers to vote.
BTW you dont need me to define democracy or remind you that a GE was held pretty much on the one Brexit issue and the Tories landslide it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bit hard to counter outright lies when people are stupid enough to believe them and dismiss your position as project fear because they can't handle being told that what they believe is categorically incorrect.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If there are lies, you call them out !
If people are idiots then democracy is flawed.
BUT still, if Remain had done a better job they would have attracted more votes, not necessarily convinced Leavers to change their minds, just for Remainers to get off their arrse and vote because the Remain campaign has told them how bloody critical this is!
Leavers voted in big numbers and it included masses of people never moved to vote before because the language of the campaign plumbed the depths and appealed to people who otherwise find politics boring bollox.
Attempting to lay any responsibility at the feet of the Remain campaign I am going to be kind and suggest is simply disingenuous.
———
He’s a Tory bootlicker, what do you expect?
Didn't help you had people voting leave as a protest vote against the government despite all polling indicating it was always going to be close.
I distinctly remember the very first guy interviewed on ITV after the vote saying he did just that as he didn't think leave would actually win
BUT still, if Remain had done a better job they would have attracted more votes, not necessarily convinced Leavers to change their minds, just for Remainers to get off their arrse and vote because the Remain campaign has told them how bloody critical this is!
-----------------
I agree Remain should have been better but what could they actually say? There were experts on everyday saying if we leave this will happen, and they were dismissed.
A vote for remain was a vote for the status quo, it's much easier to appeal to the masses when you're arguing for change and promising them how rosy the future will be.
Remain weren’t just battling against the Leave campaign either. They were up against decades of xenophobia and anti EU rhetoric in the press.
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 18 minutes ago
Remain weren’t just battling against the Leave campaign either. They were up against decades of xenophobia and anti EU rhetoric in the press.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
disagree. They should have realised very very early on that their job was not to try and change the minds of those with entrenched xenophobic attitudes, but to engage those who, at worst, were on the fence or remainers (or at least not leavers). They had to get them out there voting.
Very easy to motivate the Leavers with some carefully planned rhetoric, get them whipped up and out their voting against all these things they are supposed to hate that are ruining our country.
Harder to generate the same passion for Remaining, but they failed to do this borne out of complacency and under estimating the Leavers
A much larger proportion of this population are remain, or 'not leave' but not enough of them voted. A very weak campaign to remain, not helped by Labour's wishy washy stance which didnt encourage anyone to make a choice, and a very effectively albeit sometimes dishonest leave campaign.
It gave the xenaphobes a voice while the moderates sat on their backsides, did nothing and are now moaning like hell about the results and the racist leavers
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 day ago
comment by Bobby Dazzler (U1449)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Ignacio Varga (U11781)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 4 minutes ago
Pretty sure it will be Sunak
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tory membership electing a brown man? Pigs might fly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Would you like to make a wager?
How many ‘brown men’ have Labour had as leader? How many women of any race?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Brown
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Brown and foreign
----------------------------------------------------------------------
First cyclops anaw
comment by Robb ☀️ ‘It was hot in 1976!’ ☀️ (U22716)
posted 1 day, 3 hours ago
It’s great news. It means Labour are more likely to get in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Guaranteed - they’ll still feck it up
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 15 hours, 44 minutes ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 9 minutes ago
None of that gets away from Remain doing a shiiit job in convincing or engaging the nation on the importance of the EU to the average person. There was complacency across the board from Cameron to Corbyn, and taping into some basic xenophobia of the average person was an easy target for Leave.
Yes Leave ran an aggressive and dirty campaign and while you may think that Joe Public was misinformed, Remain failed to either counter this effectively or recognise the possibility of losing was very real and engage enough Remainers to vote.
BTW you dont need me to define democracy or remind you that a GE was held pretty much on the one Brexit issue and the Tories landslide it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bit hard to counter outright lies when people are stupid enough to believe them and dismiss your position as project fear because they can't handle being told that what they believe is categorically incorrect.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If there are lies, you call them out !
If people are idiots then democracy is flawed.
BUT still, if Remain had done a better job they would have attracted more votes, not necessarily convinced Leavers to change their minds, just for Remainers to get off their arrse and vote because the Remain campaign has told them how bloody critical this is!
Leavers voted in big numbers and it included masses of people never moved to vote before because the language of the campaign plumbed the depths and appealed to people who otherwise find politics boring bollox.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Brexit was enabled on massive lies, and you know it. Mostly pushed through on fear of immigration enabled by the right wing press and Farage.
I would hardly call that a victory.
I personally will never be a Brexiteer, although we are constantly told we are now all Brexiteers. I must certainly will never accept we were taking out of the EU, by just 2 per cent of a very large racist vote in the country.
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 day, 1 hour ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 9 minutes ago
None of that gets away from Remain doing a shiiit job in convincing or engaging the nation on the importance of the EU to the average person. There was complacency across the board from Cameron to Corbyn, and taping into some basic xenophobia of the average person was an easy target for Leave.
Yes Leave ran an aggressive and dirty campaign and while you may think that Joe Public was misinformed, Remain failed to either counter this effectively or recognise the possibility of losing was very real and engage enough Remainers to vote.
BTW you dont need me to define democracy or remind you that a GE was held pretty much on the one Brexit issue and the Tories landslide it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bit hard to counter outright lies when people are stupid enough to believe them and dismiss your position as project fear because they can't handle being told that what they believe is categorically incorrect.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If there are lies, you call them out !
If people are idiots then democracy is flawed.
BUT still, if Remain had done a better job they would have attracted more votes, not necessarily convinced Leavers to change their minds, just for Remainers to get off their arrse and vote because the Remain campaign has told them how bloody critical this is!
Leavers voted in big numbers and it included masses of people never moved to vote before because the language of the campaign plumbed the depths and appealed to people who otherwise find politics boring bollox.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The lies were literally called out countless times. People didn't care because they wanted to believe what they were being told by the snake oil salesmen and so they put their fingers in their ears and cried about "project fear" if anyone pointed out that obvious lies.
Just like anti-vaxxers, they were told things that they wanted to believe from a (usually rightwing) source they wanted to trust and dismissed any dissidents as fake news.
Sign in if you want to comment
Feck me
Page 7 of 7
6 | 7
posted on 21/7/22
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 hour, 5 minutes ago
Surely Brexit and 12 years of Conservative rule is just democracy in action.
Cameron is a coward for not sticking around to deal with the Leave mess but ultimately it was the Remain camp that failed to tap in what should have been a pretty open goal. Corbyn and his ambiguous stance on brexit is as culpable as anyone, a man who voted against remaining part of the EU in his earlier career. He had a clear conflict of interest in his mind, despite Labours traditional pro-european stance.
If you take a stance that the Party or Country should follow a certain path, and are then defeated, you wouldnt expect that leader/PM to then lead with a policy that they campaigned against, not at such a fundamental level as Brexit. Cameron's position was untenable, but he couldnt get out of the door quick enough.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Define 'democracy'.
The Leave campaign was found to be illegally funded; spent the funds it generated unlawfully (breaking electoral law); was built, demonstrably, on a raft of lies; and was only advisory in nature.
Plus there were myriad options in terms of the UK's future relationship with the EU. Unfortunately, the Tories decided to opt for a model and a deal which was close to being as economically damaging to the UK as could be imagined.
They literally chose and negotiated a deal which has, by their own calculations, shaved an unrecoverable 4% off GDP over the long term and seen £1tn in assets leave the City.
Consider that against the fact that agriculture and fishing, which the Leave campaign was so vocal about protecting, contribute combined around 0.5% of the UK's national GDP.
Let that sink in: All farming and all fishing activities account for ONE EIGHTH of what has already been lost.
They cheated to fund their campaign, they sold a lie, they acted on a non-binding, advisory referendum, then they chose pretty much the worst option available to the UK beyond complete economic isolation from the EU.
Democracy in action?
posted on 21/7/22
*account for the equivalent of
posted on 21/7/22
comment by Rosso out here drippin’ in finesse (U17054)
posted 2 hours, 18 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 hour, 5 minutes ago
Surely Brexit and 12 years of Conservative rule is just democracy in action.
Cameron is a coward for not sticking around to deal with the Leave mess but ultimately it was the Remain camp that failed to tap in what should have been a pretty open goal. Corbyn and his ambiguous stance on brexit is as culpable as anyone, a man who voted against remaining part of the EU in his earlier career. He had a clear conflict of interest in his mind, despite Labours traditional pro-european stance.
If you take a stance that the Party or Country should follow a certain path, and are then defeated, you wouldnt expect that leader/PM to then lead with a policy that they campaigned against, not at such a fundamental level as Brexit. Cameron's position was untenable, but he couldnt get out of the door quick enough.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Define 'democracy'.
The Leave campaign was found to be illegally funded; spent the funds it generated unlawfully (breaking electoral law); was built, demonstrably, on a raft of lies; and was only advisory in nature.
Plus there were myriad options in terms of the UK's future relationship with the EU. Unfortunately, the Tories decided to opt for a model and a deal which was close to being as economically damaging to the UK as could be imagined.
They literally chose and negotiated a deal which has, by their own calculations, shaved an unrecoverable 4% off GDP over the long term and seen £1tn in assets leave the City.
Consider that against the fact that agriculture and fishing, which the Leave campaign was so vocal about protecting, contribute combined around 0.5% of the UK's national GDP.
Let that sink in: All farming and all fishing activities account for ONE EIGHTH of what has already been lost.
They cheated to fund their campaign, they sold a lie, they acted on a non-binding, advisory referendum, then they chose pretty much the worst option available to the UK beyond complete economic isolation from the EU.
Democracy in action?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Excellent summation
posted on 21/7/22
None of that gets away from Remain doing a shiiit job in convincing or engaging the nation on the importance of the EU to the average person. There was complacency across the board from Cameron to Corbyn, and taping into some basic xenophobia of the average person was an easy target for Leave.
Yes Leave ran an aggressive and dirty campaign and while you may think that Joe Public was misinformed, Remain failed to either counter this effectively or recognise the possibility of losing was very real and engage enough Remainers to vote.
BTW you dont need me to define democracy or remind you that a GE was held pretty much on the one Brexit issue and the Tories landslide it.
posted on 21/7/22
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 57 seconds ago
None of that gets away from Remain doing a shiiit job in convincing or engaging the nation on the importance of the EU to the average person. There was complacency across the board from Cameron to Corbyn, and taping into some basic xenophobia of the average person was an easy target for Leave.
Yes Leave ran an aggressive and dirty campaign and while you may think that Joe Public was misinformed, Remain failed to either counter this effectively or recognise the possibility of losing was very real and engage enough Remainers to vote.
BTW you dont need me to define democracy or remind you that a GE was held pretty much on the one Brexit issue and the Tories landslide it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There was mass complacency in hindsight, similar with the US 2016 Election. I’m happy to admit I never thought Leave would actually win, not in a million years.
posted on 21/7/22
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 9 minutes ago
None of that gets away from Remain doing a shiiit job in convincing or engaging the nation on the importance of the EU to the average person. There was complacency across the board from Cameron to Corbyn, and taping into some basic xenophobia of the average person was an easy target for Leave.
Yes Leave ran an aggressive and dirty campaign and while you may think that Joe Public was misinformed, Remain failed to either counter this effectively or recognise the possibility of losing was very real and engage enough Remainers to vote.
BTW you dont need me to define democracy or remind you that a GE was held pretty much on the one Brexit issue and the Tories landslide it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bit hard to counter outright lies when people are stupid enough to believe them and dismiss your position as project fear because they can't handle being told that what they believe is categorically incorrect.
posted on 21/7/22
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 9 minutes ago
None of that gets away from Remain doing a shiiit job in convincing or engaging the nation on the importance of the EU to the average person. There was complacency across the board from Cameron to Corbyn, and taping into some basic xenophobia of the average person was an easy target for Leave.
Yes Leave ran an aggressive and dirty campaign and while you may think that Joe Public was misinformed, Remain failed to either counter this effectively or recognise the possibility of losing was very real and engage enough Remainers to vote.
BTW you dont need me to define democracy or remind you that a GE was held pretty much on the one Brexit issue and the Tories landslide it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bit hard to counter outright lies when people are stupid enough to believe them and dismiss your position as project fear because they can't handle being told that what they believe is categorically incorrect.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In a nutshell
posted on 21/7/22
“…aggressive and dirty campaign…”
It was literally an illegal campaign, built on lies.
The Remain campaign didn’t break electoral law, and presented to the public pretty facking clearly the facts about the impacts of leaving (which were widely ignored and/or dismissed as scaremongering by the Leave campaign, despite the govt’s own advisers and consultants telling them the very same thing) and best available projections about the economic costs.
I’m not sure what else people really wanted them to do, other than break the law themselves.
But there is one campaign, and one campaign alone, responsible for the UK voting to leave the EU, and that is the Leave campaign. Attempting to lay any responsibility at the feet of the Remain campaign I am going to be kind and suggest is simply disingenuous.
posted on 21/7/22
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 9 minutes ago
None of that gets away from Remain doing a shiiit job in convincing or engaging the nation on the importance of the EU to the average person. There was complacency across the board from Cameron to Corbyn, and taping into some basic xenophobia of the average person was an easy target for Leave.
Yes Leave ran an aggressive and dirty campaign and while you may think that Joe Public was misinformed, Remain failed to either counter this effectively or recognise the possibility of losing was very real and engage enough Remainers to vote.
BTW you dont need me to define democracy or remind you that a GE was held pretty much on the one Brexit issue and the Tories landslide it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bit hard to counter outright lies when people are stupid enough to believe them and dismiss your position as project fear because they can't handle being told that what they believe is categorically incorrect.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If there are lies, you call them out !
If people are idiots then democracy is flawed.
BUT still, if Remain had done a better job they would have attracted more votes, not necessarily convinced Leavers to change their minds, just for Remainers to get off their arrse and vote because the Remain campaign has told them how bloody critical this is!
Leavers voted in big numbers and it included masses of people never moved to vote before because the language of the campaign plumbed the depths and appealed to people who otherwise find politics boring bollox.
posted on 21/7/22
Attempting to lay any responsibility at the feet of the Remain campaign I am going to be kind and suggest is simply disingenuous.
———
He’s a Tory bootlicker, what do you expect?
posted on 21/7/22
Didn't help you had people voting leave as a protest vote against the government despite all polling indicating it was always going to be close.
I distinctly remember the very first guy interviewed on ITV after the vote saying he did just that as he didn't think leave would actually win
posted on 21/7/22
BUT still, if Remain had done a better job they would have attracted more votes, not necessarily convinced Leavers to change their minds, just for Remainers to get off their arrse and vote because the Remain campaign has told them how bloody critical this is!
-----------------
I agree Remain should have been better but what could they actually say? There were experts on everyday saying if we leave this will happen, and they were dismissed.
A vote for remain was a vote for the status quo, it's much easier to appeal to the masses when you're arguing for change and promising them how rosy the future will be.
posted on 21/7/22
Remain weren’t just battling against the Leave campaign either. They were up against decades of xenophobia and anti EU rhetoric in the press.
posted on 21/7/22
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 18 minutes ago
Remain weren’t just battling against the Leave campaign either. They were up against decades of xenophobia and anti EU rhetoric in the press.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
disagree. They should have realised very very early on that their job was not to try and change the minds of those with entrenched xenophobic attitudes, but to engage those who, at worst, were on the fence or remainers (or at least not leavers). They had to get them out there voting.
Very easy to motivate the Leavers with some carefully planned rhetoric, get them whipped up and out their voting against all these things they are supposed to hate that are ruining our country.
Harder to generate the same passion for Remaining, but they failed to do this borne out of complacency and under estimating the Leavers
A much larger proportion of this population are remain, or 'not leave' but not enough of them voted. A very weak campaign to remain, not helped by Labour's wishy washy stance which didnt encourage anyone to make a choice, and a very effectively albeit sometimes dishonest leave campaign.
It gave the xenaphobes a voice while the moderates sat on their backsides, did nothing and are now moaning like hell about the results and the racist leavers
posted on 21/7/22
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 day ago
comment by Bobby Dazzler (U1449)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Ignacio Varga (U11781)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 4 minutes ago
Pretty sure it will be Sunak
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tory membership electing a brown man? Pigs might fly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Would you like to make a wager?
How many ‘brown men’ have Labour had as leader? How many women of any race?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Brown
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Brown and foreign
----------------------------------------------------------------------
First cyclops anaw
posted on 21/7/22
comment by Robb ☀️ ‘It was hot in 1976!’ ☀️ (U22716)
posted 1 day, 3 hours ago
It’s great news. It means Labour are more likely to get in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Guaranteed - they’ll still feck it up
posted on 22/7/22
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 15 hours, 44 minutes ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 9 minutes ago
None of that gets away from Remain doing a shiiit job in convincing or engaging the nation on the importance of the EU to the average person. There was complacency across the board from Cameron to Corbyn, and taping into some basic xenophobia of the average person was an easy target for Leave.
Yes Leave ran an aggressive and dirty campaign and while you may think that Joe Public was misinformed, Remain failed to either counter this effectively or recognise the possibility of losing was very real and engage enough Remainers to vote.
BTW you dont need me to define democracy or remind you that a GE was held pretty much on the one Brexit issue and the Tories landslide it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bit hard to counter outright lies when people are stupid enough to believe them and dismiss your position as project fear because they can't handle being told that what they believe is categorically incorrect.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If there are lies, you call them out !
If people are idiots then democracy is flawed.
BUT still, if Remain had done a better job they would have attracted more votes, not necessarily convinced Leavers to change their minds, just for Remainers to get off their arrse and vote because the Remain campaign has told them how bloody critical this is!
Leavers voted in big numbers and it included masses of people never moved to vote before because the language of the campaign plumbed the depths and appealed to people who otherwise find politics boring bollox.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Brexit was enabled on massive lies, and you know it. Mostly pushed through on fear of immigration enabled by the right wing press and Farage.
I would hardly call that a victory.
I personally will never be a Brexiteer, although we are constantly told we are now all Brexiteers. I must certainly will never accept we were taking out of the EU, by just 2 per cent of a very large racist vote in the country.
posted on 22/7/22
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 day, 1 hour ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 9 minutes ago
None of that gets away from Remain doing a shiiit job in convincing or engaging the nation on the importance of the EU to the average person. There was complacency across the board from Cameron to Corbyn, and taping into some basic xenophobia of the average person was an easy target for Leave.
Yes Leave ran an aggressive and dirty campaign and while you may think that Joe Public was misinformed, Remain failed to either counter this effectively or recognise the possibility of losing was very real and engage enough Remainers to vote.
BTW you dont need me to define democracy or remind you that a GE was held pretty much on the one Brexit issue and the Tories landslide it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bit hard to counter outright lies when people are stupid enough to believe them and dismiss your position as project fear because they can't handle being told that what they believe is categorically incorrect.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If there are lies, you call them out !
If people are idiots then democracy is flawed.
BUT still, if Remain had done a better job they would have attracted more votes, not necessarily convinced Leavers to change their minds, just for Remainers to get off their arrse and vote because the Remain campaign has told them how bloody critical this is!
Leavers voted in big numbers and it included masses of people never moved to vote before because the language of the campaign plumbed the depths and appealed to people who otherwise find politics boring bollox.
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The lies were literally called out countless times. People didn't care because they wanted to believe what they were being told by the snake oil salesmen and so they put their fingers in their ears and cried about "project fear" if anyone pointed out that obvious lies.
Just like anti-vaxxers, they were told things that they wanted to believe from a (usually rightwing) source they wanted to trust and dismissed any dissidents as fake news.
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