For me the bottom line is:
- Hojlund needs to massively improve if he's going to be a first choice striker at United.
- He's not ready at his age for the burden of being a starter and main provider of goals.
- If and when the team gets better at working its way up the pitch and dominating possession (which means nailing Amorim's in-possession tactics through time on the training pitch AND upgrading personnel, in particular getting wing backs who are actually wing backs), Hojlund will get to spend much more time doing the things he's comfortable and quite good at (running the channels, getting shots off when released around the box) and less time doing the things he's bad at (back to goal build-up play in the middle third).
- In the meantime, it would be great if we could share the burden better (which will be sorted when we finalise the Rashford/Osimhen swap).
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 41 minutes ago
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 2 hours, 44 minutes ago
As I said before, if Rashford stays, Amorim can just say he has improved in training / his attitude and he becomes part of the squad again. Then it's in the interests of everyone for him to find some form to either leave to a club he desires, get as good a fee as possible, or dare I say it, could he stay on (seems very unlikely as Amorim will probably want other players given what has happened).
Even in the summer I will be surprised if we bring in more than 3 or 4 players given our restraints, no matter who gets laid off, and those that come in really need to improve the squad, not just young up and coming potential
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That may work for the media but I'd be worried what signal it sends to the dressing room if he's brought back into the fold if he hasn't upped his game and desire to give his all.
The other danger is that Rashford once again cuts a sorry figure on the pitch and Amorim gets undermined that way. What does he do then. Drops him again and it all looks like he doesn't know what he's doing.
In short Rashford must genuinely change and demonstrate he wants to give 100% regardless. The problem is what if he doesn't. He's then not even in the matchday squad for the next 4/5 months. And it becomes even harder to sell him in the summer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think if he doesn't go on loan, there would be no choice but to try and integrate him in the team, for everyone involved. It's not realistic not to play him for the rest of the season.
You would think that once everyone realises that is the situation, Rashford would knuckle down and up his game. Amorim can bee seen to give him a chance, and it should be apparent over the next few weeks if progress is being made. If the signs really aren't there, then Amorim I guess would just use him very sparingly and we would take the hit in the summer when we get rid of him. Amorim could say that he tried to give him a chance but it didn't work out. But given that Rashford not putting it in for the rest of the season doesn't help anyone, I would be very disappointed if that is what happens.
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 36 minutes ago
comment by scholayScholes (U13961)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 39 minutes ago
comment by scholayScholes (U13961)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 5 hours, 30 minutes ago
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 37 minutes ago
I can’t imagine whatever Amorim has said is stopping us from moving on Rashford. The reasons why we are struggling to move him on are simple, he’s useless and his wages are too high. Clubs know the risks of bringing in any player, they’re not oblivious to any situation, I’m sure they have ways of knowing what’s going on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He's not useless though. At least when his head is right he isn't anyway. He miles better than those two clowns we have playing upfront when he's fit and firing.
Wages are a massive issue of course and always were going to be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mean, Hojlund has a better goals contribution to minutes ratio than Rashford at United, despite playing in our worst ever PL team. But whatever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cool stat. And?
Rasmus is not better than Rashford or shown anything to indicate he will even reach Rashford level.
Lukaku has a better goal to game ratio compared to Rooney.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My point is that Rashford isn't miles better than Hojlund. Its just typical Hyperbole. They are of course different players and Rashford is more effective as a left forwards and will create chances for himselg. Hojlund is more of a classic no.9 and will rely more on others to create chances.
But already he has shown that he is a better finisher than Rashford.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not sure what you are watching. Rasmus has shown or done nothing to show he is a better finisher than Rashford. If anything, he has the same problem as Rashford in that he is abysmal with his runs in the box and general movement. His hold up play is even more dire. See Mourinho assessment of Rashford years back on Sky.
Rashford, at a similar age to Rasmus played better and showed way more potential compared to what we are seeing from Rasmus now. I do not know many United fans excited about Rasmus in the future.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rashford's conversion rate in the PL is 1 goal every 6.7 shots. Rasmus is 1 in 4.2. It is criminal how many chances Rashford and Garnacho have wasted in the last 18 months.
Now I won't disagree that Hojlund needs to work on his movement and hold up play. That said, when he first joined he made a lot of good runs and was completely ignored most of the time. Especially by Rashford. But he does need to improve in that area. But we as a team also need to actually create some decent chances. He's been feeding off scraps most of the time and it's no surprise that Hojlunds best run of form came when Shaw was available and we had some balance to the team. At the moment there is very little service from wide and we aren't going to see any striker getting many goals for United until we have 2 reliable wingbacks and another player for the no.10 position.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I will agree on the service part.
What i can't excuse is what we saw from him this past game. He looked completely out of his depth. He could not do the basics of a championship footballer forget premier league.
May I am being harsh, but I just don't see it with Rasmus.
Apart from that one very good season, Rashford's other seasons have lacked any real consistency - occasional moments of magic, but a lot of indifferent games also. Of course it's not been easy with what has happened in the team, but the moments of magic haven't been often enough to make up for the indifferent games, so overall, I don't think he has been at a great level for us.
There's not a lot of love on here for Hojlund, but I fear we are really wasting a chance with him. He must be severely lacking in confidence, and playing up front for us right now is hardly a walk in the park.
He may indeed turn out to be not that great regardless, but let's at least do our best to see how good he can be. Get in another striker to take some of the heat off him and progress him, and if it still doesn't work, then fine, we move him on, but it feels like we are doing our best to make sure he doesn't succeed.
comment by scholayScholes (U13961)
posted 18 hours, 18 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 36 minutes ago
comment by scholayScholes (U13961)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 39 minutes ago
comment by scholayScholes (U13961)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 5 hours, 30 minutes ago
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 37 minutes ago
I can’t imagine whatever Amorim has said is stopping us from moving on Rashford. The reasons why we are struggling to move him on are simple, he’s useless and his wages are too high. Clubs know the risks of bringing in any player, they’re not oblivious to any situation, I’m sure they have ways of knowing what’s going on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He's not useless though. At least when his head is right he isn't anyway. He miles better than those two clowns we have playing upfront when he's fit and firing.
Wages are a massive issue of course and always were going to be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mean, Hojlund has a better goals contribution to minutes ratio than Rashford at United, despite playing in our worst ever PL team. But whatever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cool stat. And?
Rasmus is not better than Rashford or shown anything to indicate he will even reach Rashford level.
Lukaku has a better goal to game ratio compared to Rooney.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My point is that Rashford isn't miles better than Hojlund. Its just typical Hyperbole. They are of course different players and Rashford is more effective as a left forwards and will create chances for himselg. Hojlund is more of a classic no.9 and will rely more on others to create chances.
But already he has shown that he is a better finisher than Rashford.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not sure what you are watching. Rasmus has shown or done nothing to show he is a better finisher than Rashford. If anything, he has the same problem as Rashford in that he is abysmal with his runs in the box and general movement. His hold up play is even more dire. See Mourinho assessment of Rashford years back on Sky.
Rashford, at a similar age to Rasmus played better and showed way more potential compared to what we are seeing from Rasmus now. I do not know many United fans excited about Rasmus in the future.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rashford's conversion rate in the PL is 1 goal every 6.7 shots. Rasmus is 1 in 4.2. It is criminal how many chances Rashford and Garnacho have wasted in the last 18 months.
Now I won't disagree that Hojlund needs to work on his movement and hold up play. That said, when he first joined he made a lot of good runs and was completely ignored most of the time. Especially by Rashford. But he does need to improve in that area. But we as a team also need to actually create some decent chances. He's been feeding off scraps most of the time and it's no surprise that Hojlunds best run of form came when Shaw was available and we had some balance to the team. At the moment there is very little service from wide and we aren't going to see any striker getting many goals for United until we have 2 reliable wingbacks and another player for the no.10 position.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I will agree on the service part.
What i can't excuse is what we saw from him this past game. He looked completely out of his depth. He could not do the basics of a championship footballer forget premier league.
May I am being harsh, but I just don't see it with Rasmus.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I just don't think that any striker is going to look good at United right now. The only supporting/attacking position that we have got right for me at the moment is Amad. There is very little service from wide positions. Hojlund has shown that he can get on the end of chances put into the box. But we rarely put any decent corss/pullbacks into the box. Two quality wingbacks is the priority and also another no.10.
I just think it is very premature to judge Hojlund at this stage. The whole team is a mess. When Hojlund has had the chances he is converting at a very good rate. But until there is any form of cohesion to the team and he is getting more than 1 shot per 90 minutes, I think it is too early to judge. I honestly think that there is a very good striker in there.
Honest question, how many more goals do you think Haaland would have scored in the PL this season if he was playing in this United team?
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 18 hours, 47 minutes ago
Apart from that one very good season, Rashford's other seasons have lacked any real consistency - occasional moments of magic, but a lot of indifferent games also. Of course it's not been easy with what has happened in the team, but the moments of magic haven't been often enough to make up for the indifferent games, so overall, I don't think he has been at a great level for us.
There's not a lot of love on here for Hojlund, but I fear we are really wasting a chance with him. He must be severely lacking in confidence, and playing up front for us right now is hardly a walk in the park.
He may indeed turn out to be not that great regardless, but let's at least do our best to see how good he can be. Get in another striker to take some of the heat off him and progress him, and if it still doesn't work, then fine, we move him on, but it feels like we are doing our best to make sure he doesn't succeed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree with this. I really don't think that we are giving him much of a chance a the moment. As much as I wasn't really Lukaku's biggest fan, I think that we did the same with him a bit. He thrived off crosses into the box, yet we didn't have anyone that could consistently put crosses into the box. We lost a lot of Lukaku's threat. He also didn't help himself by getting too big and cumbersome, but I did feel a bit sorry for him, as our style didn't suit his strengths.
Sign in if you want to comment
Rashford
Page 4 of 4
posted on 27/1/25
For me the bottom line is:
- Hojlund needs to massively improve if he's going to be a first choice striker at United.
- He's not ready at his age for the burden of being a starter and main provider of goals.
- If and when the team gets better at working its way up the pitch and dominating possession (which means nailing Amorim's in-possession tactics through time on the training pitch AND upgrading personnel, in particular getting wing backs who are actually wing backs), Hojlund will get to spend much more time doing the things he's comfortable and quite good at (running the channels, getting shots off when released around the box) and less time doing the things he's bad at (back to goal build-up play in the middle third).
- In the meantime, it would be great if we could share the burden better (which will be sorted when we finalise the Rashford/Osimhen swap).
posted on 27/1/25
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 41 minutes ago
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 2 hours, 44 minutes ago
As I said before, if Rashford stays, Amorim can just say he has improved in training / his attitude and he becomes part of the squad again. Then it's in the interests of everyone for him to find some form to either leave to a club he desires, get as good a fee as possible, or dare I say it, could he stay on (seems very unlikely as Amorim will probably want other players given what has happened).
Even in the summer I will be surprised if we bring in more than 3 or 4 players given our restraints, no matter who gets laid off, and those that come in really need to improve the squad, not just young up and coming potential
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That may work for the media but I'd be worried what signal it sends to the dressing room if he's brought back into the fold if he hasn't upped his game and desire to give his all.
The other danger is that Rashford once again cuts a sorry figure on the pitch and Amorim gets undermined that way. What does he do then. Drops him again and it all looks like he doesn't know what he's doing.
In short Rashford must genuinely change and demonstrate he wants to give 100% regardless. The problem is what if he doesn't. He's then not even in the matchday squad for the next 4/5 months. And it becomes even harder to sell him in the summer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think if he doesn't go on loan, there would be no choice but to try and integrate him in the team, for everyone involved. It's not realistic not to play him for the rest of the season.
You would think that once everyone realises that is the situation, Rashford would knuckle down and up his game. Amorim can bee seen to give him a chance, and it should be apparent over the next few weeks if progress is being made. If the signs really aren't there, then Amorim I guess would just use him very sparingly and we would take the hit in the summer when we get rid of him. Amorim could say that he tried to give him a chance but it didn't work out. But given that Rashford not putting it in for the rest of the season doesn't help anyone, I would be very disappointed if that is what happens.
posted on 27/1/25
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 36 minutes ago
comment by scholayScholes (U13961)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 39 minutes ago
comment by scholayScholes (U13961)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 5 hours, 30 minutes ago
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 37 minutes ago
I can’t imagine whatever Amorim has said is stopping us from moving on Rashford. The reasons why we are struggling to move him on are simple, he’s useless and his wages are too high. Clubs know the risks of bringing in any player, they’re not oblivious to any situation, I’m sure they have ways of knowing what’s going on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He's not useless though. At least when his head is right he isn't anyway. He miles better than those two clowns we have playing upfront when he's fit and firing.
Wages are a massive issue of course and always were going to be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mean, Hojlund has a better goals contribution to minutes ratio than Rashford at United, despite playing in our worst ever PL team. But whatever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cool stat. And?
Rasmus is not better than Rashford or shown anything to indicate he will even reach Rashford level.
Lukaku has a better goal to game ratio compared to Rooney.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My point is that Rashford isn't miles better than Hojlund. Its just typical Hyperbole. They are of course different players and Rashford is more effective as a left forwards and will create chances for himselg. Hojlund is more of a classic no.9 and will rely more on others to create chances.
But already he has shown that he is a better finisher than Rashford.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not sure what you are watching. Rasmus has shown or done nothing to show he is a better finisher than Rashford. If anything, he has the same problem as Rashford in that he is abysmal with his runs in the box and general movement. His hold up play is even more dire. See Mourinho assessment of Rashford years back on Sky.
Rashford, at a similar age to Rasmus played better and showed way more potential compared to what we are seeing from Rasmus now. I do not know many United fans excited about Rasmus in the future.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rashford's conversion rate in the PL is 1 goal every 6.7 shots. Rasmus is 1 in 4.2. It is criminal how many chances Rashford and Garnacho have wasted in the last 18 months.
Now I won't disagree that Hojlund needs to work on his movement and hold up play. That said, when he first joined he made a lot of good runs and was completely ignored most of the time. Especially by Rashford. But he does need to improve in that area. But we as a team also need to actually create some decent chances. He's been feeding off scraps most of the time and it's no surprise that Hojlunds best run of form came when Shaw was available and we had some balance to the team. At the moment there is very little service from wide and we aren't going to see any striker getting many goals for United until we have 2 reliable wingbacks and another player for the no.10 position.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I will agree on the service part.
What i can't excuse is what we saw from him this past game. He looked completely out of his depth. He could not do the basics of a championship footballer forget premier league.
May I am being harsh, but I just don't see it with Rasmus.
posted on 27/1/25
Apart from that one very good season, Rashford's other seasons have lacked any real consistency - occasional moments of magic, but a lot of indifferent games also. Of course it's not been easy with what has happened in the team, but the moments of magic haven't been often enough to make up for the indifferent games, so overall, I don't think he has been at a great level for us.
There's not a lot of love on here for Hojlund, but I fear we are really wasting a chance with him. He must be severely lacking in confidence, and playing up front for us right now is hardly a walk in the park.
He may indeed turn out to be not that great regardless, but let's at least do our best to see how good he can be. Get in another striker to take some of the heat off him and progress him, and if it still doesn't work, then fine, we move him on, but it feels like we are doing our best to make sure he doesn't succeed.
posted on 28/1/25
comment by scholayScholes (U13961)
posted 18 hours, 18 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 36 minutes ago
comment by scholayScholes (U13961)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 39 minutes ago
comment by scholayScholes (U13961)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 5 hours, 30 minutes ago
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 37 minutes ago
I can’t imagine whatever Amorim has said is stopping us from moving on Rashford. The reasons why we are struggling to move him on are simple, he’s useless and his wages are too high. Clubs know the risks of bringing in any player, they’re not oblivious to any situation, I’m sure they have ways of knowing what’s going on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He's not useless though. At least when his head is right he isn't anyway. He miles better than those two clowns we have playing upfront when he's fit and firing.
Wages are a massive issue of course and always were going to be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mean, Hojlund has a better goals contribution to minutes ratio than Rashford at United, despite playing in our worst ever PL team. But whatever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cool stat. And?
Rasmus is not better than Rashford or shown anything to indicate he will even reach Rashford level.
Lukaku has a better goal to game ratio compared to Rooney.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My point is that Rashford isn't miles better than Hojlund. Its just typical Hyperbole. They are of course different players and Rashford is more effective as a left forwards and will create chances for himselg. Hojlund is more of a classic no.9 and will rely more on others to create chances.
But already he has shown that he is a better finisher than Rashford.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not sure what you are watching. Rasmus has shown or done nothing to show he is a better finisher than Rashford. If anything, he has the same problem as Rashford in that he is abysmal with his runs in the box and general movement. His hold up play is even more dire. See Mourinho assessment of Rashford years back on Sky.
Rashford, at a similar age to Rasmus played better and showed way more potential compared to what we are seeing from Rasmus now. I do not know many United fans excited about Rasmus in the future.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rashford's conversion rate in the PL is 1 goal every 6.7 shots. Rasmus is 1 in 4.2. It is criminal how many chances Rashford and Garnacho have wasted in the last 18 months.
Now I won't disagree that Hojlund needs to work on his movement and hold up play. That said, when he first joined he made a lot of good runs and was completely ignored most of the time. Especially by Rashford. But he does need to improve in that area. But we as a team also need to actually create some decent chances. He's been feeding off scraps most of the time and it's no surprise that Hojlunds best run of form came when Shaw was available and we had some balance to the team. At the moment there is very little service from wide and we aren't going to see any striker getting many goals for United until we have 2 reliable wingbacks and another player for the no.10 position.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I will agree on the service part.
What i can't excuse is what we saw from him this past game. He looked completely out of his depth. He could not do the basics of a championship footballer forget premier league.
May I am being harsh, but I just don't see it with Rasmus.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I just don't think that any striker is going to look good at United right now. The only supporting/attacking position that we have got right for me at the moment is Amad. There is very little service from wide positions. Hojlund has shown that he can get on the end of chances put into the box. But we rarely put any decent corss/pullbacks into the box. Two quality wingbacks is the priority and also another no.10.
I just think it is very premature to judge Hojlund at this stage. The whole team is a mess. When Hojlund has had the chances he is converting at a very good rate. But until there is any form of cohesion to the team and he is getting more than 1 shot per 90 minutes, I think it is too early to judge. I honestly think that there is a very good striker in there.
Honest question, how many more goals do you think Haaland would have scored in the PL this season if he was playing in this United team?
posted on 28/1/25
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 18 hours, 47 minutes ago
Apart from that one very good season, Rashford's other seasons have lacked any real consistency - occasional moments of magic, but a lot of indifferent games also. Of course it's not been easy with what has happened in the team, but the moments of magic haven't been often enough to make up for the indifferent games, so overall, I don't think he has been at a great level for us.
There's not a lot of love on here for Hojlund, but I fear we are really wasting a chance with him. He must be severely lacking in confidence, and playing up front for us right now is hardly a walk in the park.
He may indeed turn out to be not that great regardless, but let's at least do our best to see how good he can be. Get in another striker to take some of the heat off him and progress him, and if it still doesn't work, then fine, we move him on, but it feels like we are doing our best to make sure he doesn't succeed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree with this. I really don't think that we are giving him much of a chance a the moment. As much as I wasn't really Lukaku's biggest fan, I think that we did the same with him a bit. He thrived off crosses into the box, yet we didn't have anyone that could consistently put crosses into the box. We lost a lot of Lukaku's threat. He also didn't help himself by getting too big and cumbersome, but I did feel a bit sorry for him, as our style didn't suit his strengths.
Page 4 of 4