Not making any comment on the George Best time machine debate (who knows how he would have responded in a different environment that inculcates professionalism from an early age). But this paragraph on Best's last productive season from Wikipedia is a cracker:
Highlights for Best included hat-tricks against West Ham United and Southampton, as well as a goal against Sheffield United that came after he beat four defenders in a mazy run. However, he was also sent off against Chelsea, was the subject of death threats, and failed to turn up for training for a whole week in January as he instead spent his time with Miss Great Britain 1971, Carolyn Moore. On 17 November, he was the subject of Eamonn Andrews's biographical television show This Is Your Life when he was surprised at a central London restaurant. [...] With 27 goals in 54 appearances, Best finished as the club's top-scorer for the sixth – and final – consecutive season.
comment by Robb #456 (U22716)
posted 32 minutes ago
Even Beeks is doing well for Girona. He’s played almost every game for them and has a few goals
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought beeks was dead
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 6 minutes ago
Not making any comment on the George Best time machine debate (who knows how he would have responded in a different environment that inculcates professionalism from an early age). But this paragraph on Best's last productive season from Wikipedia is a cracker:
Highlights for Best included hat-tricks against West Ham United and Southampton, as well as a goal against Sheffield United that came after he beat four defenders in a mazy run. However, he was also sent off against Chelsea, was the subject of death threats, and failed to turn up for training for a whole week in January as he instead spent his time with Miss Great Britain 1971, Carolyn Moore. On 17 November, he was the subject of Eamonn Andrews's biographical television show This Is Your Life when he was surprised at a central London restaurant. [...] With 27 goals in 54 appearances, Best finished as the club's top-scorer for the sixth – and final – consecutive season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The guy personified legend status. MU52 was very lucky to have seen him live.
No real vision, slow, not great at defending.
-----------------------------------------------------
Mainoo isn't a perfect fit in our system but this feels pretty harsh. He's already shown an ability to break the lines with vertical passes through narrow gaps, and to pick out and execute key passes in the final third. He's not rapid, although not the liability that Eriksen/Casemiro are in terms of ground coverage. He's actually pretty good at tackling, and also pretty good at competing for aerial balls. But he's also yet to turn 20. We can point out his shortcomings compared with top quality players in their prime, but let's not forget that most midfielders at his age are years from reaching their eventual peak. He has lots of development ahead of him, which will define both how good he becomes and what kind of player he becomes.
comment by Ali - 🇪🇦 🏴 (U1192)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Robb #456 (U22716)
posted 32 minutes ago
Even Beeks is doing well for Girona. He’s played almost every game for them and has a few goals
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought beeks was dead
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because he's been off the media radar for a while, or because of the whole translucent appearance thing?
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 41 seconds ago
No real vision, slow, not great at defending.
-----------------------------------------------------
Mainoo isn't a perfect fit in our system but this feels pretty harsh. He's already shown an ability to break the lines with vertical passes through narrow gaps, and to pick out and execute key passes in the final third. He's not rapid, although not the liability that Eriksen/Casemiro are in terms of ground coverage. He's actually pretty good at tackling, and also pretty good at competing for aerial balls. But he's also yet to turn 20. We can point out his shortcomings compared with top quality players in their prime, but let's not forget that most midfielders at his age are years from reaching their eventual peak. He has lots of development ahead of him, which will define both how good he becomes and what kind of player he becomes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree Re Mainoo here, the next 2yrs will show whether he is a "good" player or could become a "great" player, I often forget how young he is and his relative amount of actual games played, still have fairly high hopes for the fellah
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 51 seconds ago
No real vision, slow, not great at defending.
-----------------------------------------------------
Mainoo isn't a perfect fit in our system but this feels pretty harsh. He's already shown an ability to break the lines with vertical passes through narrow gaps, and to pick out and execute key passes in the final third. He's not rapid, although not the liability that Eriksen/Casemiro are in terms of ground coverage. He's actually pretty good at tackling, and also pretty good at competing for aerial balls. But he's also yet to turn 20. We can point out his shortcomings compared with top quality players in their prime, but let's not forget that most midfielders at his age are years from reaching their eventual peak. He has lots of development ahead of him, which will define both how good he becomes and what kind of player he becomes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s a fair point, he far from the finished product and very young. . But he really doesn’t offer much in terms of cutting passes, which isn’t really a skill that can be leaned. I’m just not sure he will fit in well with this system currently, and Jim isnt shy on pulling the trigger on selling assets, which would be a shame.
comment by Baz tard - ineos your face (U19119)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 51 seconds ago
No real vision, slow, not great at defending.
-----------------------------------------------------
Mainoo isn't a perfect fit in our system but this feels pretty harsh. He's already shown an ability to break the lines with vertical passes through narrow gaps, and to pick out and execute key passes in the final third. He's not rapid, although not the liability that Eriksen/Casemiro are in terms of ground coverage. He's actually pretty good at tackling, and also pretty good at competing for aerial balls. But he's also yet to turn 20. We can point out his shortcomings compared with top quality players in their prime, but let's not forget that most midfielders at his age are years from reaching their eventual peak. He has lots of development ahead of him, which will define both how good he becomes and what kind of player he becomes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s a fair point, he far from the finished product and very young. . But he really doesn’t offer much in terms of cutting passes, which isn’t really a skill that can be leaned. I’m just not sure he will fit in well with this system currently, and Jim isnt shy on pulling the trigger on selling assets, which would be a shame.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Seems to me there's a real possibility that the front office conclude that we can generate significant income from Mainoo and invest less than all of it in a player who fits the system better. The replacement wouldn't be as talented at Mainoo, but would be an elite athlete and reasonable technician. Someone like Amadou Onana.
This would make me sad. I hope the club sees value in investing in Mainoo's talent and developing him into a player who solves a lot of problems in ball progression.
With regard to lack of talent for cutting passes, I'm not sure we can say that. He's played in teams that are very unsure of themselves and lack coordination. All of the players in ETH's side last year were passing up opportunities to play through-balls and were playing it safe to a depressing extent, which seemed to be either under instruction or because they lacked confidence in teammates' movement to collect the ball / lacked confidence in the defensive shape to react if the pass didn't come off. Playing for England in a pivot, Mainoo was also operating under quite a conservative, safety-first manager (but did play some nice passes that broke the lines). Now under Amorim our players are learning new build-up patterns with associated collective movements. Once those start to bed in, we'll be in a better position to judge whether Mainoo lacks the tools to execute passes that unlock an attack, or whether he was playing within himself as a youngster in a failing team. Personally, I've seen him thread the needle in the final third and break the lines in the middle third enough times to not be concerned about his ability with the ball at his feet. His out of possession capabilities are the biggest question mark for me.
RR,
Agree with everything you've said about Mainoo. He's shown flashes of his ability to collect the ball deeper and find those 'Carrick' passes over 20-30 yards through the lines. I'm sure a 19 year old Michael Carrick was only showing flashes of that ability at that time, too. He certainly wasn't scoring in FA Cup finals and starting in Euro finals for England!
The extent of the criticism of the apparent short-comings of players like Mainoo from some here is insane. I remember how much flak Fletcher used to get when he broke through - a player significantly less naturally gifted than Mainoo - before developing to become one of Fergie's 'go to' men for the big games. He had an 18 month spell of being immense for us before the ulcerative colitis derailed his career. You'd think people would learn their lesson when looking at players like Fletcher, their development arc and how they were largely written off initially.
I think it's clear than Mainoo is an awkward fit right now in an Amorim 3-4-3 team. But at 19 he's not a player that should be a shoe-in for any manager in any system anyway. For now I think he should get minutes in the central midfield two without being a nailed on starter every week. Longer term we just don't know whether he can make such a role his own but it's hardly out of the question given his ability.
My feeling is he's a bit of a Pogba-style conundrum in that his skillset looks perfect for being the LCM player in a 4-3-3, but part of his development will be learning different roles and at 19 he's got plenty of time to do just that.
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 2 minutes ago
RR,
Agree with everything you've said about Mainoo. He's shown flashes of his ability to collect the ball deeper and find those 'Carrick' passes over 20-30 yards through the lines. I'm sure a 19 year old Michael Carrick was only showing flashes of that ability at that time, too. He certainly wasn't scoring in FA Cup finals and starting in Euro finals for England!
The extent of the criticism of the apparent short-comings of players like Mainoo from some here is insane. I remember how much flak Fletcher used to get when he broke through - a player significantly less naturally gifted than Mainoo - before developing to become one of Fergie's 'go to' men for the big games. He had an 18 month spell of being immense for us before the ulcerative colitis derailed his career. You'd think people would learn their lesson when looking at players like Fletcher, their development arc and how they were largely written off initially.
I think it's clear than Mainoo is an awkward fit right now in an Amorim 3-4-3 team. But at 19 he's not a player that should be a shoe-in for any manager in any system anyway. For now I think he should get minutes in the central midfield two without being a nailed on starter every week. Longer term we just don't know whether he can make such a role his own but it's hardly out of the question given his ability.
My feeling is he's a bit of a Pogba-style conundrum in that his skillset looks perfect for being the LCM player in a 4-3-3, but part of his development will be learning different roles and at 19 he's got plenty of time to do just that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Grate poste.
Berbaking
For reference, at Mainoo's age, Carrick had his first season where he got regular minutes at West Ham. Four years later he got his move to Spurs. He was six years away from coming to United.
comment by Robb #456 (U22716)
posted 8 hours, 41 minutes ago
On another note I have a very strong suspicion and you can bookmark this but I think Rash will do very well at Villa and maybe win the FA cup with them
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He will flop. I'm just wondering how we can get one team to pay oodles of cash.
comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson forever!If he is good enough he is ready! (U12026)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by Robb #456 (U22716)
posted 8 hours, 41 minutes ago
On another note I have a very strong suspicion and you can bookmark this but I think Rash will do very well at Villa and maybe win the FA cup with them
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He will flop. I'm just wondering how we can get one team to pay oodles of cash.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think he’ll rediscover his mojo
comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson forever!If he is good enough he is ready! (U12026)
posted 1 hour, 13 minutes ago
comment by Robb #456 (U22716)
posted 8 hours, 41 minutes ago
On another note I have a very strong suspicion and you can bookmark this but I think Rash will do very well at Villa and maybe win the FA cup with them
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He will flop. I'm just wondering how we can get one team to pay oodles of cash.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He’ll do alright initially before fizzling out. Hopefully not before Villa give us the 40 mill.
Sign in if you want to comment
Sancho's 'freedom' comment
Page 3 of 3
posted on 11/2/25
Not making any comment on the George Best time machine debate (who knows how he would have responded in a different environment that inculcates professionalism from an early age). But this paragraph on Best's last productive season from Wikipedia is a cracker:
Highlights for Best included hat-tricks against West Ham United and Southampton, as well as a goal against Sheffield United that came after he beat four defenders in a mazy run. However, he was also sent off against Chelsea, was the subject of death threats, and failed to turn up for training for a whole week in January as he instead spent his time with Miss Great Britain 1971, Carolyn Moore. On 17 November, he was the subject of Eamonn Andrews's biographical television show This Is Your Life when he was surprised at a central London restaurant. [...] With 27 goals in 54 appearances, Best finished as the club's top-scorer for the sixth – and final – consecutive season.
posted on 11/2/25
comment by Robb #456 (U22716)
posted 32 minutes ago
Even Beeks is doing well for Girona. He’s played almost every game for them and has a few goals
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought beeks was dead
posted on 11/2/25
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 6 minutes ago
Not making any comment on the George Best time machine debate (who knows how he would have responded in a different environment that inculcates professionalism from an early age). But this paragraph on Best's last productive season from Wikipedia is a cracker:
Highlights for Best included hat-tricks against West Ham United and Southampton, as well as a goal against Sheffield United that came after he beat four defenders in a mazy run. However, he was also sent off against Chelsea, was the subject of death threats, and failed to turn up for training for a whole week in January as he instead spent his time with Miss Great Britain 1971, Carolyn Moore. On 17 November, he was the subject of Eamonn Andrews's biographical television show This Is Your Life when he was surprised at a central London restaurant. [...] With 27 goals in 54 appearances, Best finished as the club's top-scorer for the sixth – and final – consecutive season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The guy personified legend status. MU52 was very lucky to have seen him live.
posted on 11/2/25
No real vision, slow, not great at defending.
-----------------------------------------------------
Mainoo isn't a perfect fit in our system but this feels pretty harsh. He's already shown an ability to break the lines with vertical passes through narrow gaps, and to pick out and execute key passes in the final third. He's not rapid, although not the liability that Eriksen/Casemiro are in terms of ground coverage. He's actually pretty good at tackling, and also pretty good at competing for aerial balls. But he's also yet to turn 20. We can point out his shortcomings compared with top quality players in their prime, but let's not forget that most midfielders at his age are years from reaching their eventual peak. He has lots of development ahead of him, which will define both how good he becomes and what kind of player he becomes.
posted on 11/2/25
comment by Ali - 🇪🇦 🏴 (U1192)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Robb #456 (U22716)
posted 32 minutes ago
Even Beeks is doing well for Girona. He’s played almost every game for them and has a few goals
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought beeks was dead
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because he's been off the media radar for a while, or because of the whole translucent appearance thing?
posted on 11/2/25
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 41 seconds ago
No real vision, slow, not great at defending.
-----------------------------------------------------
Mainoo isn't a perfect fit in our system but this feels pretty harsh. He's already shown an ability to break the lines with vertical passes through narrow gaps, and to pick out and execute key passes in the final third. He's not rapid, although not the liability that Eriksen/Casemiro are in terms of ground coverage. He's actually pretty good at tackling, and also pretty good at competing for aerial balls. But he's also yet to turn 20. We can point out his shortcomings compared with top quality players in their prime, but let's not forget that most midfielders at his age are years from reaching their eventual peak. He has lots of development ahead of him, which will define both how good he becomes and what kind of player he becomes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree Re Mainoo here, the next 2yrs will show whether he is a "good" player or could become a "great" player, I often forget how young he is and his relative amount of actual games played, still have fairly high hopes for the fellah
posted on 11/2/25
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 51 seconds ago
No real vision, slow, not great at defending.
-----------------------------------------------------
Mainoo isn't a perfect fit in our system but this feels pretty harsh. He's already shown an ability to break the lines with vertical passes through narrow gaps, and to pick out and execute key passes in the final third. He's not rapid, although not the liability that Eriksen/Casemiro are in terms of ground coverage. He's actually pretty good at tackling, and also pretty good at competing for aerial balls. But he's also yet to turn 20. We can point out his shortcomings compared with top quality players in their prime, but let's not forget that most midfielders at his age are years from reaching their eventual peak. He has lots of development ahead of him, which will define both how good he becomes and what kind of player he becomes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s a fair point, he far from the finished product and very young. . But he really doesn’t offer much in terms of cutting passes, which isn’t really a skill that can be leaned. I’m just not sure he will fit in well with this system currently, and Jim isnt shy on pulling the trigger on selling assets, which would be a shame.
posted on 11/2/25
comment by Baz tard - ineos your face (U19119)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 51 seconds ago
No real vision, slow, not great at defending.
-----------------------------------------------------
Mainoo isn't a perfect fit in our system but this feels pretty harsh. He's already shown an ability to break the lines with vertical passes through narrow gaps, and to pick out and execute key passes in the final third. He's not rapid, although not the liability that Eriksen/Casemiro are in terms of ground coverage. He's actually pretty good at tackling, and also pretty good at competing for aerial balls. But he's also yet to turn 20. We can point out his shortcomings compared with top quality players in their prime, but let's not forget that most midfielders at his age are years from reaching their eventual peak. He has lots of development ahead of him, which will define both how good he becomes and what kind of player he becomes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s a fair point, he far from the finished product and very young. . But he really doesn’t offer much in terms of cutting passes, which isn’t really a skill that can be leaned. I’m just not sure he will fit in well with this system currently, and Jim isnt shy on pulling the trigger on selling assets, which would be a shame.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Seems to me there's a real possibility that the front office conclude that we can generate significant income from Mainoo and invest less than all of it in a player who fits the system better. The replacement wouldn't be as talented at Mainoo, but would be an elite athlete and reasonable technician. Someone like Amadou Onana.
This would make me sad. I hope the club sees value in investing in Mainoo's talent and developing him into a player who solves a lot of problems in ball progression.
With regard to lack of talent for cutting passes, I'm not sure we can say that. He's played in teams that are very unsure of themselves and lack coordination. All of the players in ETH's side last year were passing up opportunities to play through-balls and were playing it safe to a depressing extent, which seemed to be either under instruction or because they lacked confidence in teammates' movement to collect the ball / lacked confidence in the defensive shape to react if the pass didn't come off. Playing for England in a pivot, Mainoo was also operating under quite a conservative, safety-first manager (but did play some nice passes that broke the lines). Now under Amorim our players are learning new build-up patterns with associated collective movements. Once those start to bed in, we'll be in a better position to judge whether Mainoo lacks the tools to execute passes that unlock an attack, or whether he was playing within himself as a youngster in a failing team. Personally, I've seen him thread the needle in the final third and break the lines in the middle third enough times to not be concerned about his ability with the ball at his feet. His out of possession capabilities are the biggest question mark for me.
posted on 11/2/25
RR,
Agree with everything you've said about Mainoo. He's shown flashes of his ability to collect the ball deeper and find those 'Carrick' passes over 20-30 yards through the lines. I'm sure a 19 year old Michael Carrick was only showing flashes of that ability at that time, too. He certainly wasn't scoring in FA Cup finals and starting in Euro finals for England!
The extent of the criticism of the apparent short-comings of players like Mainoo from some here is insane. I remember how much flak Fletcher used to get when he broke through - a player significantly less naturally gifted than Mainoo - before developing to become one of Fergie's 'go to' men for the big games. He had an 18 month spell of being immense for us before the ulcerative colitis derailed his career. You'd think people would learn their lesson when looking at players like Fletcher, their development arc and how they were largely written off initially.
I think it's clear than Mainoo is an awkward fit right now in an Amorim 3-4-3 team. But at 19 he's not a player that should be a shoe-in for any manager in any system anyway. For now I think he should get minutes in the central midfield two without being a nailed on starter every week. Longer term we just don't know whether he can make such a role his own but it's hardly out of the question given his ability.
My feeling is he's a bit of a Pogba-style conundrum in that his skillset looks perfect for being the LCM player in a 4-3-3, but part of his development will be learning different roles and at 19 he's got plenty of time to do just that.
posted on 11/2/25
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 2 minutes ago
RR,
Agree with everything you've said about Mainoo. He's shown flashes of his ability to collect the ball deeper and find those 'Carrick' passes over 20-30 yards through the lines. I'm sure a 19 year old Michael Carrick was only showing flashes of that ability at that time, too. He certainly wasn't scoring in FA Cup finals and starting in Euro finals for England!
The extent of the criticism of the apparent short-comings of players like Mainoo from some here is insane. I remember how much flak Fletcher used to get when he broke through - a player significantly less naturally gifted than Mainoo - before developing to become one of Fergie's 'go to' men for the big games. He had an 18 month spell of being immense for us before the ulcerative colitis derailed his career. You'd think people would learn their lesson when looking at players like Fletcher, their development arc and how they were largely written off initially.
I think it's clear than Mainoo is an awkward fit right now in an Amorim 3-4-3 team. But at 19 he's not a player that should be a shoe-in for any manager in any system anyway. For now I think he should get minutes in the central midfield two without being a nailed on starter every week. Longer term we just don't know whether he can make such a role his own but it's hardly out of the question given his ability.
My feeling is he's a bit of a Pogba-style conundrum in that his skillset looks perfect for being the LCM player in a 4-3-3, but part of his development will be learning different roles and at 19 he's got plenty of time to do just that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Grate poste.
posted on 11/2/25
Berbaking
For reference, at Mainoo's age, Carrick had his first season where he got regular minutes at West Ham. Four years later he got his move to Spurs. He was six years away from coming to United.
posted on 11/2/25
comment by Robb #456 (U22716)
posted 8 hours, 41 minutes ago
On another note I have a very strong suspicion and you can bookmark this but I think Rash will do very well at Villa and maybe win the FA cup with them
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He will flop. I'm just wondering how we can get one team to pay oodles of cash.
posted on 11/2/25
comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson forever!If he is good enough he is ready! (U12026)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by Robb #456 (U22716)
posted 8 hours, 41 minutes ago
On another note I have a very strong suspicion and you can bookmark this but I think Rash will do very well at Villa and maybe win the FA cup with them
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He will flop. I'm just wondering how we can get one team to pay oodles of cash.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think he’ll rediscover his mojo
posted on 11/2/25
comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson forever!If he is good enough he is ready! (U12026)
posted 1 hour, 13 minutes ago
comment by Robb #456 (U22716)
posted 8 hours, 41 minutes ago
On another note I have a very strong suspicion and you can bookmark this but I think Rash will do very well at Villa and maybe win the FA cup with them
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He will flop. I'm just wondering how we can get one team to pay oodles of cash.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He’ll do alright initially before fizzling out. Hopefully not before Villa give us the 40 mill.
Page 3 of 3