http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/steel-redcar-tata-four-chart-that-shows-why-the-uk-steel-industry-is-in-crisis-and-why-the-a6701111.html

UK 11.9mt output


http://www.eef.org.uk/uksteel/About-the-industry/Steel-facts/Steel-markets-UK.htm

UK demand 10.4mt




So who benefits from higher Chinese tariffs in terms of UK demand?

Considering EU steel is cheaper to produce than UK steel, you would have to say Germany and Spain would benefit (they both sell us more than the entire Asian continent combined), but the EU as a whole would.

The only 'benefit' to us would be higher costs for our companies to import the Chinese (small) percentage.

The answer would be to subsidise our steel industrtly, but why are we not allowed to do so?

The Chinese companies are dumping steel into europe at below cost prices. That's below Chinese costs, this is an effort to distort the market.

There's no way our companies or others in Europe can compete with the way steel is dumped.

Best way to counter that is to stick a tariff onto Chinese steel, which will be a de facto subsidy to the industry without pouring public funds into the steel industry.

Britain vetoed it.

Sovereign short sighted decision.

Like I said, fack blaming the EU for that.

It's all very well taxing or imposing tariffs on imported steel but how on earth does that prevent the import of finished goods from businesses who are able to import?

We do. We have manufacture in China and export to nearly every European country and don't even touch the product.

Gingernuts there are tariffs on Chinese finished products too.

Dunno what the second paragraph is about..

comment by Redinthehead - FreeGaza - فلسطين (U1860)
posted 48 minutes ago
The Chinese companies are dumping steel into europe at below cost prices. That's below Chinese costs, this is an effort to distort the market.

There's no way our companies or others in Europe can compete with the way steel is dumped.

Best way to counter that is to stick a tariff onto Chinese steel, which will be a de facto subsidy to the industry without pouring public funds into the steel industry.

Britain vetoed it.

Sovereign short sighted decision.

Like I said, fack blaming the EU for that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Putting a tariff on Chinese steel will be a de facto subsudy to the EU steel industry, but how would it benefit the UK?

The cost of steel is cheaper in the EU than here. 75% of our imports are from the EU ffs, not China. Anything we buy from China will simply be purchased from another EU country.

We have to make our own steel competitive.

Tariffs on all imports (not allowed)

Subsidising our own steel industries (not allowed)

Who does not allow either?

I know but they aren't onerous enough to prevent trade.

Second paragraph means that we have products manufactured in China which we then sell into Europe. It leaves Chinese ports and enters fir story into Europe without us as a UK company having to hold them or move them in and out of the U.K.

We also import plants from Germany.

import plemty

Even

The cost of steel is cheaper in the EU than here. 75% of our imports are from the EU ffs, not China. Anything we buy from China will simply be purchased from another EU country.

--------
There you go again, how much did we import in 2014 versus our requirements for steel?

We produced most of the steel we needed ourselves, in the UK.

I don't mind importing most of the rest from the EU, seeing as that's where most of our industrial exports go!

@simon3677: @Johnludds Can you imagine that call?
"Hi Turkey it's me Boris"
"Who"
"Boris"
"Boris who"
"Boris Johnson"
"F**k off we've enough problems"

ah man the Boris Turkey tweets on twitter are funny.

comment by Redinthehead - FreeGaza - فلسطين (U1860)
posted 23 minutes ago
The cost of steel is cheaper in the EU than here. 75% of our imports are from the EU ffs, not China. Anything we buy from China will simply be purchased from another EU country.

--------
There you go again, how much did we import in 2014 versus our requirements for steel?

We produced most of the steel we needed ourselves, in the UK.

I don't mind importing most of the rest from the EU, seeing as that's where most of our industrial exports go!
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Do some research on it, come back to me with some proper figures, and links to sources.

At present you are just waffling

You're the one attempting to state misleading figures, like 75% of our imported steel comes from the EU, or rather came from the EU.

When you don't even know what tonnage it is. We could import 100tonnes, whereas the the UK produces millions of tonnes.

So rather provide some context figure rather than keep banging it out that % figure which on its own means nothing.

I'll help you out, we imported 680,000 tonnes from China.

Work out the rest.

I gave you figures and links above - are you being particularly difficult on purpose?

comment by HRH King Ledley (U20095)
posted 16 hours, 19 minutes ago
http://uk.businessinsider.com/uk-steel-industry-failure-eu-state-aid-rules-imports-exports-prices-2016-3



Total 5.4mt
EU 3.9mt
ROW 1.5mt


Germany 809t
Spain 709t
Asia 651t




----------------------------------------------------------------------

comment by HRH King Ledley (U20095)
posted 6 hours, 37 minutes ago
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/steel-redcar-tata-four-chart-that-shows-why-the-uk-steel-industry-is-in-crisis-and-why-the-a6701111.html

UK 11.9mt output


http://www.eef.org.uk/uksteel/About-the-industry/Steel-facts/Steel-markets-UK.htm

UK demand 10.4mt




So who benefits from higher Chinese tariffs in terms of UK demand?

Considering EU steel is cheaper to produce than UK steel, you would have to say Germany and Spain would benefit (they both sell us more than the entire Asian continent combined), but the EU as a whole would.

The only 'benefit' to us would be higher costs for our companies to import the Chinese (small) percentage.

The answer would be to subsidise our steel industrtly, but why are we not allowed to do so?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The figures vary from whatever source you pick, but approximately 50-60% of our steel is imported.

Of those inports, the EU makes up roughly 75%

Asia makes up between 10-15%

(These are x million)
Total 5.4mt
EU 3.9mt
ROW 1.5mt

(These are x1000)
Germany 809t
Spain 709t
Asia 651t

we're out

U.K. Outputs nearly 12m tonnes, with a demand of around 10.4m...

Ok.

So where's the sense in letting cheap steel from China be dumped to then kill our manufacturing capacity to be self sufficient?

The veto on tariff for Chinese steel enacted by the uk government was a monumental blunder at best.. at best.

EU steel is also cheaper than UK steel, this is what you are failing to grasp here.

If we tariff Chinese steel it will simply increase the price of that portion of imported steel as we will get it from the EU instead.

If I want to help my local shop I do not put tariffs on Lidl and Aldi, because people will just go to Asda or Morrisons instead. I have to make my local shop competitive

comment by HRH King Ledley (U20095)
posted 7 seconds ago
EU steel is also cheaper than UK steel, this is what you are failing to grasp here.

-------
Youve said that but;

1) haven't backed that up
2) bulk of industrial exports go to europe anyway, so they're paying for it in the end.
3) we don't export much of note to China our economies are not based on the same price of labour.

more to the point, you seem unable to acknowledge that the government vetoing the tariff on Chinese steel was fundamentally bad for the British steel industry.

So I'm going to leave it there.

Simple really

Don't buy steel

Plastic boats is the way

Seriously. It's at times like these we become more inventive. All we need now is a good war. Thought that was meant to happen too

An answer would be to subsidise the industry, and make sure any government projects use British steel.

We can do neither inside the EU

In order to compete with Chinese steel manufacturers we would have to reduce working conditions and wages to the same level as China. This is not palatable.

China are dumping it on Europe at below cost anyway.

One battle at a time, stymie the flow of Chinese steel by the high tariffs. This at the very least buys some breathing room for the steel industry.

However with the decision to veto, British government has failed to act responsibly, the short term bargain prices have distorted the market and have led to steelworks closures / mothballing. Meaning we are now reliant on Chinese capacity, it's a market they have created for themselves through that dumping.

Britain could have stopped it but didn't.

You can make a running plant more efficient over time, you cannot make efficient that which is not running.

"Britain could have stopped it but didn't."

Britain could have voted to stop it, but would have had it vetoed even if the did.

We are not in control of it.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/690191/Britain-ten-Brexit-trade-deals-lined-up-economic-powerhouses