It's this sort of stuff that makes me feel sick (just read it by co-incidence on yahoo)

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/teenage-girl-grabbed-alleyway-raped-173855843.html

so sad that someone should go through such an ordeal and that there are people who would perpetrate it.

although Savile does as well tbf. Absolute monster who left vulnerable young girls terrified, no doubt about it.

I'm just unable to see Guiffrie in the same way as those kind of victims, and to me Prince Andrew bumbling his way into bed after a boozy dinner is just incomparable.

I appreciate it's not a competition, I just feel that in some cases the lawyers chasing the money may do more harm to the victims than the actual act itself did, whereas in some cases of sxeual abuse sadly that is very clearly not the situation.

I understand that some people find these views absolutely abhorrent, but it's just my appraisal of the situation.

I have recently started to think of the whole Phnom Penh bar scene etc to be a bit tawdry, sad and unpalatable tbh, even if a lot of the girls who work there don't see it like that, and even though you get all manner of westerners in there, and even though there are sadly much darker sides to that part of the world (really needs bullet points that ideally).

comment by Blarmy (U14547)
posted about 2 hours ago
comment by Bãles left boot (U22081)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Dim Sim Flung (U22695)
posted 16 minutes ago
what's Charles done ??
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He was bezzie mates with Saville. I'm not having it that he had no idea what was going on there
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Doesnt the bezzie mate with Saville group also include half of the British A-list from the 70s,80s & 90s?
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Yup. And they all knew, or at least had an idea. Like Janet Street Porter said, it was the 'culture' at the time. Fuct up.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/voices/iv-drip/janet-street-porter-heard-about-jimmy-savile-abuse-claims-8199072.html%3famp

https://youtu.be/XeB9ZxffQAE

Anyways. The only reason I wouldn't go for abolishing the monarchy is cos I have no faith in the politicians (and by extension the British public) to do any better.

comment by Bãles left boot (U22081)
posted 6 hours, 5 minutes ago
comment by Blarmy (U14547)
posted about 2 hours ago
comment by Bãles left boot (U22081)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Dim Sim Flung (U22695)
posted 16 minutes ago
what's Charles done ??
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He was bezzie mates with Saville. I'm not having it that he had no idea what was going on there
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Doesnt the bezzie mate with Saville group also include half of the British A-list from the 70s,80s & 90s?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yup. And they all knew, or at least had an idea. Like Janet Street Porter said, it was the 'culture' at the time. Fuct up.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/voices/iv-drip/janet-street-porter-heard-about-jimmy-savile-abuse-claims-8199072.html%3famp
----------------------------------------------------------------------

It was never the culture to be doing what Savile was doing. I don't believe that. He was a monster of a man.

Where culture has changed is men having sxueal encounters or relationships with young girls.

I am not trying to advocate for such behaviour here I'm just pointing out the culture change. In the movie version of One Flew Over the Cuckoo's nest, the hero of the movie is Jack Nicholson's character, who was doing time for having had sxe with a 15 year old girl. It's presented as if it's a joke to be given a prison sentence for it. Even the governor of the mental institute he's been transferred to expresses sympathy. That was made in 75. There is no way in hell that that would be the attitude now, or that it would be written in that way today.

Similarly, Elvis Presley started going out with his future wife Priscilla when she was 14. Bill Wyman was sleeping with Mandy Smith when she was 13. Bowie and Iggie Pop were chasing after and sleeping with 13 and 14 year olds. This is all documented fact. The BBC is still doing reverential pieces on Bowie now in 2022. I don't think this was ever right, and it just seems unthathomable behaviour to us now, but that's where I think we can say the culture has changed, in a relatively very short period. It's been alleged that Jagger slept with a 15 year old. Incidently, all of the women then girls who were involved above have spoken out (I read an article on this recently during a discussion on that other forum) and said they don't see themselves as victims in any way, apart from Mandy Smith who says that the age of consent should be raised to 18 and who clearly regrets her relationship with Wyman. I was trying to see if the people who were so vociferous about Prince Andrew etc would speak about their potential former rock heroes in the same way, and not one single person did.

Am not trying to make any point here, am just commenting on your culture comment. I don't think it would ever have been acceptable culture though for men to be scaring the life out of teenage girls in their hospital beds and threatening them if they said anything about sxueal abuse like Savile was doing.

Also I don't think it was ever really acceptable for these men to be having relationships with 13,14,15 year olds. You never see any old interviews of Bowie saying "oh yes, I'm pursuing a lovely 14 year old girl at the moment". It was just much, much less unacceptable then than it is now. I think such people would have been thought of as a bit shady then whereas now we would think of them literally as being the worst most evil people alive.

I think though that if people knew what Savile was doing, even in the 70s I think it would have been generally accepted that what he was doing was evil and he would have been locked up for a very long time. It's sad that he got away with it, and no doubt his connection (whether inadvertently or otherwise) helped.

I don't think of myself as in any way similar to these people by the way. I slept with a girl when she was 18 and 19, and kissed another girl who was 19 a few times.

I don't think that makes me Iggie Pop personally, and I don't castigate myself for enjoying both of those friendships/relationships. I do not believe that I am a 'wrong un', or that I've done anything that is inherently wrong, even though in the eyes of today's arguably quite extreme western culture perhaps it could be said that I may have done.

I remember after the first time I slept with her, we went up to the little pool on the roof of my hotel and I said I didn't realise how young she was (at this point thinking she was 19, when really she was 18), and she said she's how old she is, she can't do anything about it. And I suppose I thought that was fair comment. I mean it did feel like she was too young for me, which obviously she was, but we got on really well in some ways so it kind of still just about worked. She was probably the smartest girl I knew in Cambodia which probably made a difference.

On the subject of Guiffre and Prince Andrew, just my personal view, but the trafficking stuff just doesn't wash with me, and neither does the thing about her being told she HAD to sleep with him. Clearly she wanted to sleep with him, so why would they tell her she HAD to sleep with him ? Even if they did, she wanted to. If someone told me I HAVE to sleep with a very beautiful and nice woman, I'm not going to turn round afterwards and say that the woman sxueally assaulted me because I was told I had to sleep with her.

To me sxe trafficking is stuff like happens in south east asia and all around the world, where women and girls are forced to have sxe, and have their freedom taken away from them. That is the wickedness that needs to be focused on in my view, not 17 year olds who were paid to sleep with royalty and texted their friends about how amazing it was. I don't believe for one moment that Guiffre or the other women and girls were not allowed to leave if they wanted to. That doesn't excuse Epstein's actions by any means, which were clearly wrong in many ways, but I do not see an equivalence between these women - particularly Guiffre who was probably the number one recruiter of other girls - and what I would call victims of real sxe trafficking. Just my view based on what little I know about it.

Hi,

I'm not a guest of the hotel but visited this morning for breakfast.

I was very surprised indeed to see 2 paintings on the wall in the dining area, which appear to depict European women paying for the company of an African man.

Many European people including I am sure some of your guests, would find these paintings insulting, offensive and highly inappropriate, and it is not the sort of thing that would usually be on display in a respectable hotel.

Just informing in case of interest.

Kind regards,

Ever thought about becoming a gigalo?

With my one working ball

comment by Dim Sim Flung (U22695)
posted 1 hour, 22 minutes ago
With my one working ball
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The girls won’t want you to impregnate them.

Just show them a good time.

comment by Hello You Conte (U3338)
posted 2 hours, 4 minutes ago
comment by Dim Sim Flung (U22695)
posted 1 hour, 22 minutes ago
With my one working ball
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The girls won’t want you to impregnate them.

Just show them a good time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

It's my understanding that one working ball will suffice to facilitate pregnancy.

I could be a no-sxe gigolo if it's just a case of giving them a good time.

Dear ---,

Thank you for emailing us with your concerns, we are sorry you feel that way about the artwork. We hope you enjoyed your breakfast with us otherwise.

We have always been very fond of art and supporting local artists. We run month exhibitions to promote African artists in memory of my father who was an artist.

The current artist ‘----------' is a very well known Kenyan artist who paints many different subjects some of which are considered controversial, however he is depicting what he has seen in day to day life. They are made to create conversation about current issues and address things that we often find hard to talk about but as Arnold Schoenberg famously said “If it is art, it is not for all, and if it is for all, it is not art.”

We want to promote Kenyan artists and all styles of art and have had great feedback from this particular exhibition.

We have a new exhibition starting tomorrow from another great Kenyan artist called --------------.

We hope you enjoy the rest of your stay in Lamu.

Kind Regards,

Dear ,

Firstly, many thanks for taking the time to reply, particularly bearing in mind that I am not a guest but someone who popped in for breakfast (which yes I did enjoy thanks).

Secondly I appreciate and understand your points about promoting local artists.

Thirdly I note your comment about your father which I also respect.

Fourthly I note that you are due to have a new exhibition tomorrow and I wish you and the artist best of luck with that.

I also note your comments about art promoting discussion etc. However it could also be noted that your guests have not chosen to visit a controversial art gallery but a hotel, and furthermore a hotel of some standing in the area. Furthermore, I personally have no doubt at all that when some of your guests sit down to eat and are confronted with a depiction of western women paying local men for sxe, they find it grossly offensive. In fact showing such paintings in such prominence is a direct gross insult to your European visitors.

I note that on behalf of the hotel you suggest that this represents a depiction of real life, but nevertheless I am confident that there are actually many western women - I'm sure including some of your guests - who in fact do not go on holiday for the purposes of paying local men to have sxe with them.

Whilst I note your comments, in my view it is a quite staggering misjudgement on the part of the hotel to have displayed such paintings, and whether your guests directly raise objections or not, it's something that would personally make me refrain from recommending the hotel as a potential holiday destination for friends or relatives.

Thanks again for your reply.

Kind regards,

It was going so well.

If you were so offended, why didn’t you leave the hotel as soon as you saw it?

The hotel owner/ manager can put whatever it wants on it walls. If you don’t like it, leave.

Did you sign off your email as ‘Karen’

A hotel can put whatever racially offensive material it likes on its walls, because if a visitor doesn't like it they can leave ?

I didn't leave because I was eating my breakfast.

It's a good job I was only there for breakfast. Imagine following HYC's advice if you've just flown 5000 miles for a holiday and you have to just leave because the hotel's plastered the restaurant with racially offensive paintings.

the 2nd email was over the top and unnecessary. i was basically right though in what i was saying.