FSG never said they only want young players. They said they don't want old players with no resale value.

Businessmen don't really need to know about football that's the manager's job. There are plenty of sports clubs owned by businessmen who don't know too much about it.

First off robbing ill say I enjoy debating with you, unlike most other posters you are not rude and you think about your answers, you also seem to follow your principles unlike others that change post to post,

I'm the first to agree they should be held to blame for any mistakes they have made, but specifically mistakes they have made and we can fairly attribute the blam based on something other than rumours and speculation.

I agree they don't know football, but they have a willing to learn, what more can we expect from them?

And yes they sacked kenny, but it wasn't a matter of impatience from them, I think the suarez debacle helped with kennys downfall, but he was also rude in press conferences, something a consortium with FSGs portfolio can't afford, he also did not have time on his side, had he taken three years and 200 mill building a side and it had all worked out, that would have lasted two years at best before he needed to retire, we then would have had two years of good times just to watch another 3 year rebuild, im glad they sacked kenny and appointed a young manager with great potential, because if building BRs squad and indeed the whole club in his vision works out it will last a far far longer time than kenny ever could have

>>Businessmen don't really need to know about football that's the manager's job. There are plenty of sports clubs owned by businessmen who don't know too much about it.

agreed

Insert random username (U10647)
posted 7 minutes ago
So its FSGs fault commolli and kenny overspent?

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potentially, but since we don't really know what happened it is hard to say. But there is certainly scope for the blame lying with a handful of people, I tend to think that the people at the top should be accountable. Either way, it still allows for the potential that FSG could be at fault there and so I see no reason to not be skeptical about it.

Also the whole Suarez affair was a shambles and if they had such strong opinions about it, why did they not step in earlier?

I support BR but I question his appointment - again I believe that this is a perfectly valid thing to do given his experience and the boots he has been left to fill - time will tell over that one though. This has nothing to do with trying to direct blame to appease my own frustrations or being impatient, thanks for continually telling me about my feelings though.

I hate the fact that FSG had to come out and respond to the claims levelled against them and thst they might think those idiots represent all of us and thst the majority share their view.
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When did they do that? SOS’s letter was yesterday, and the BBC says LFC have declined to respond.
FSG’s open letter was on Monday.

You think they were responding to claims they hadn’t seen yet?

If you weren’t referring to SOS, who are these unspecified ‘idiots’, and how do you know whether they represent the majority or not?

I wasn't referred to SOS but the minority. I know from speaking to Liverpool fans in Liverpool, at home and online that they are a small minority.

Kemlyn Road (U10652)

I've nicked some of your comments from Monday. Struck a chord with me to be honest.

FSG never said they only want young players. They said they don't want old players with no resale value.
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Seriously TOOR you have a habit of being very pedantic and refusing to read between the lines but that statement is just foolish. If they won't buy old players then they will inevitably only have young ones. The second statement totally nullifies the first

I think Kenny should have been given another year to be honest. Especially considering the volume of chances created, consistency in dominating matches, and quality of football.

However, whether or not it's a mistake having let him go depends entirely on whether or not Buck's system takes hold and progresses.

I'll get back to you in a couple of years on that one

I don't think TOOR's being pendantic at all.

They never said they would only buy young payers ever, ever, ever is completely wrong.

They just don't want old players on longer contracts and high wages.

If there was an older player available and the cash required justified them be acquired, then they would do it in a heartbeat.

That's why Bellamy came in.

I've nicked some of your comments from Monday. Struck a chord with me to be honest
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lol. I read your post, but didn't notice. Can't always remember what I've written.

I went back and read some of Kemlyn Road (U10652)'s comments after that post and all I can say is

However, whether or not it's a mistake having let him go depends entirely on whether or not Buck's system takes hold and progresses.

I'll get back to you in a couple of years on that one
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Well, you see, therein lies the problem. How do you know they’ll give BR two years?

They only gave KD 18 months. The first 5 months of that he was ‘on trial’, and they said he ‘exceeded expectations’, so offered him a contract. A year later he was gone, and replaced by a manger who didn’t want any of the players we’d spent a load of money on.

I have no idea what KD’s targets were, and I don’t know what BR’s are. These are the things I’d like thenm to tell us, preferably before I buy any more tickets.

Because if I turn up to the stadium to see how the ‘experiment’ is progressing, and then they call time on it again before it’s had time to get off the ground, I’ll feel a bit robbed, tbh.

I wasn't referred to SOS but the minority. I know from speaking to Liverpool fans in Liverpool, at home and online that they are a small minority.
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TOOR, you seriously think you know what the majortiy of Liverpool fans think? You’ve been berating SOS for making that assumption.

I’ve been following this debate on this site for the past couple of days, and I don’t even know what the majority of posters on here think.

I don't think they ever thought of Kenny as anything other than an interim manager. they wanted a younger manager to build a long term stlye and strategy.

But Kenny's results forced their hand to give him a contract.

They went off plan.

Kemlyn, their open letter is them telling us what the plan is. Whether you believe it or not is entirely up to you. .

They can't win really. They've sent this open letter and some people are cynical and call it spin. If they didn't write this letter people will be saying they're not responding to the fans' concerns.

The harsh reality is that we're consumers not shareholders. They own the club. They don't have to answer to us, but they have, which is more than you get from a lot of owners.

Did anyone see Spurs fans writing a letter to Joe Lewis asking why Harry had gone and replaced by a manager who almost ruined Chelsea, why Modric and VDV were bought and replaced by lesser players, why they've only got two strikers and why they now have 4 goalkeepers.

Sometimes Liverpool fans are their own worst enemy. Give them time, lets see how we get on this season and the lets make an assessment. SOS writing a letter 3 games into a season is utterly, utterly ridiculous.

SOS - not in my name.
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Could someone point out to me which part of the letter is unreasonable?

I'm not saying that to be churlish and it's not rhetorical. I just want to know what, in this case, is so bad about it.

You can say SOS writing a letter 3 games into a season is ridiculous (although it could be said it's been written 2 years into an ownership) but what I find utterly ridiculous is that our owners had to write a letter in the first place.

By that I don't mean they should not have to write a letter. I'm saying that the situation that led to it simply should not have happened.

I don't think they ever thought of Kenny as anything other than an interim manager
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So, they appointed an interim manager, gave him a bucket-load of cash to spend, then appointed another manager who wanted to use a different kind of player, and can only give him limited backup in the transfer market because they gave the interim manager all the cash?

I don't want to be too hard on them, because I think some of the things they're doing are really good, and I believe what they say about their long-term targets.

But I'm sorry, that's a major balls-up.

SOS's stated ultimate goal is to get FSG out and install a supporter ownership scheme.

This conflict of interest makes them being unbiased, objective and supportive impossible IMO.

The article is antagonistic, condescending and snarky throughout.

I would never want a supporter ownership scheme. It would be the same as having ja606 dictate the policy of Liverpool. Unworkable mess.

>>So, they appointed an interim manager, gave him a bucket-load of cash to spend, then appointed another manager who wanted to use a different kind of player, and can only give him limited backup in the transfer market because they gave the interim manager all the cash?


I didn't say that at all.

I said that they appointed Kenny as interim with the intention of a permanent manager in summer.

Then Kenny went and messed up their plan (happy accident) by having amazing performances and results. They had no choice but to make his position permament.

what I find utterly ridiculous is that our owners had to write a letter in the first place.

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I agree, but ti think they had to because some of our fans were acting like we'd been relegated after 3 games. It was a ricidulous overreaction so they tried to provide some clarity.

I've argued this time and time again - you never hear Roman, the Glazers, Kenwright, Lerner, Lewis, Mansour, Ashley, Kroneke etc etc having to come out and justify their decisions. Why we expect FSG to run everything by us is ridiculous.

I know we've been stung before by H&G but that doesn't mean we're going to get stung again by FSG.

Kemlyn, their open letter is them telling us what the plan is. Whether you believe it or not is entirely up to you. .
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My problem with it is that it doesn't really tell us what the plan is. As it happens, I do bellieve in waht they say about their long-term goals, it's their short-term goals over the next couple of seasons I'm interested in.

I was happy to be patient with KD/Steve Clarke, but they called time on it after one season. Now they're asking me to be patient with BR.

Fine with that, but tell us what his targets are, because they set a precendent by calling time on the previous manager, so it'd be nice to know if my patence is wasted, before I buy any more tickets. As a consumer, It's not that much to ask.

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They can't win really. They've sent this open letter and some people are cynical and call it spin.
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Yeah, they can. They can issue a letter with no spin in it, and I'll be fine with it. If our target for this year is top 10, because we have to cut back on salaries, etc., ..I'm a grown up, I can handle that.

Or they can not issue a letter at all, if they want to give the impression they don't give a monkey's what their consumers think. It's their club, it's up to them,

Fine with that, but tell us what his targets are, because they set a precendent by calling time on the previous manager, so it'd be nice to know if my patence is wasted, before I buy any more tickets. As a consumer, It's not that much to ask.

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I think its quite right that they don't give BR a target for his first season. Its diminishes expectations with fans.

Lets say for example, they said we would be fine with a top 8 finish. Kemlyn, you're a reasonable man, I can tell from your posts, but others aren't. Some of our fans would be up in arms that top 8 is the target.They argue that FSG are just here for money, asset stripping, they're like H&G etc etc.

Now say they said they expected 4th. Anything below that makes BR look like he failed. They made that mistake with Kenny. They've learned from that.

FatJanMolby (U4297)

I think as a set of fans we're exceptionally reasonable. Certainly match going ones. I can count on 1 finger when we've asked for a manager to be fired in my entire lifetime. They've sacked two so when we consider knee jerk reactions that needs to be added to the debate.

I agree with Kemlyn on the letter in that they could have clearer in what they wanted to achieve and when or not issued it at all. I think it is full of spin myself. "We're not going to risk the long terms future of the club so we don't have a striker?" BS. I am 100% certain that it would not bankrupt the club. We now have no out and out striker who is old enough to drink in America.

They need to meet us half way. I don't think the letter was a good idea. I don't think buying Carroll to appease us was a good idea. I can think of many other poor ideas that have been evident in their actions.

They are continually hiring and firing staff. If we finish below 8th and not in two cup finals what for the project then? They don't seem to be thinking things through.

I'm not against the owners I'm just for the club. If people are going to be consuming this project they need to make it palatable.