funrob, only yesterday were you yourself calling our full backs liabilities and that our midfield is poor both offensively and defensively.
When De Gea, Rafael and Evra turn up to matches looking like a beached whale and then have the audacity to question the club's ambition then maybe I won't spend so much time defending them.
Everyone is using that Everton game to beat him with but Welbeck and Nani were just as bad but no-one is writing them off in the same way.
Jesus Christ, he put on a bit of weight this summer which could be burned off in a week of training and is most probably already gone.
He'll be back by Liverpool at the latest and most probably at some point tonight.
Once he scores a few people will hopefully get off his back and appreciate him much more than a couple of players in Kagawa and RVP who have barely played 7 United games between them.
Kagawa
What's wrong with questioning the clubs ambition though? Any club that sells their best player for £80 million and doesn't invest that money wisely (at the time of Rooney asking this) should have questions asked.
We as fans feel the need to do this everyday. Why not our biggest player at the time?
Look at our signings since. I'd say Rooney did us a favour.
rob my only point is there shouldn't be any weight to burn off once the season started
I see a trend here on ja606 that ever since RVP has been signed and has scored a few goals we are using that as stick to beat Rooney with. Its almost as if we are now fine without him and don't need him at all. Every time I ask someone on a thread about an update on Rooney's injury it is accompanied with remarks slating him and how we shouldn't be bothered to know about his injury now that we have RVP. They will both need to play together for us to be successful and we are entering a period of important PL games back to back. I would much rather have a Rooney in form and starting each game along with RVP.
Pride
Yeah, maybe he found it a bit hard to burn off by the Everton game but had he not been injured against Fulham , the weight would have been long gone by now and none of this would be news anymore.
He was just unlucky to get injured and that weight issue became frozen in time and a stick to beat him with.
comment by Pride of the North (U6803)
posted 1 minute ago
rob my only point is there shouldn't be any weight to burn off once the season started
------------------
You are making too much our of it. Rooney played against Barca in pre-season I think and boss must have known his exact level of fitness before the Everton game. Van Persie was on the bench against Everton and if Rooney wasn't fit Sir Alex had nothing to worry about. Why would be play Rooney if he wasn't fit?
Do not be surprised if one of Sir Alex' last acts at this club is telling Rooney where to go. A seemingly lovely bloke away from football, but the boss is a man that doesn't like to be made a fool of and never forgets. When the time comes that he thinks we can do without Rooney then he'll be out of here.
funrob, after that I honestly can't take you seriously. Your comments are fuelled with bias and is a slander on both the club and the manager. Who does Rooney think he is that he can question the ambition of Sir Alex Ferguson? Get a grip of yourself.
All I would say is he's a professional sportsman, he'll have plenty of time for drinking, fast food etc when his career is over. He should be in the best shape of his life at the moment obviously barring injuries
He looked in very good shape at the start of the season, as good as he has ever been
***
I never said that he is in the best shape of his life.
*****
Wicked you are wasting my time.
Kagawa
You yourself slate the manager for rotating the team and dropping De Gea so you're hardly Sir Alex's biggest fan.
As for Rooney questioning the clubs ambition, i'm pretty sure he was aiming that at the Glazers and since then they've opened the wallet and bought top class players.
I don't know of you remember back then but after selling Ronaldo we barely spent that money and could see City buying up a load of players but we were standing still.
Rooney questioned the ambition of the club and was right to do so.
'Who does Rooney think he is'? One of our top players and someone with the confidence to say what most of us were thinking.
Who does Rooney think he is that he can question the ambition of Sir Alex Ferguson? Get a grip of yourself.
-----------
And why do you think Sir Alex actually didn't blame him much and accepted him back with both hands? He has never said anything wrong against Rooney for that incident and Rooney himself has been very respectful.
So if he had really questioned ambition of Sir Alex do you think Sir Alex will take him back easily? You do not know what went on behind the scenes and there was even a theory that it was done to put pressure on Glazers. Now I am not saying that is true but all I am saying is that Sir Alex only knows what was said in private and I don't think Rooney was ever disrespectful or questioned SAF otherwise he wouldn't be back.
All this nonsense about only being on Rooney's back since RVP's acquisition is arrant nonsense.
Sure, some of the noises may be more vociferous but i have been critiquing Rooney for three seasons now - not 'criticising', 'critiquing', as some people don't know the difference.
I christened Rooney the 'Ricky Hatton' of football and i stand by that moniker as i don't see anything to convince me otherwise.
A player of Rooney's ilk should not have his ability to do basics questioned: he has the touch of a first-time rapist, his endlessly cedes possession and his inabiluity to control a simple pass in the final third is what grates me the most.
Players of his ilk all around the globe don't have the questions hanging over them. Just because he is increasingly prolific in front of goal, doesn't mean his glaring deficiencies should be ignored.
Wicked you are wasting my time.
-------------
If you want to twist words its your wish. All I wanted to say was that he was fit enough to start and he has been as fit enough as he has been recently. Answer me this. Why would SAF start him if he is unfit and we have Wellbeck, RVP and Chico to choose from? This was not even a crunch game, only the first game of the season. Do you think you have some special ability to spot fitness from the stands/TV and you can do better than SAF and training staff who have better access to him and regularly and closely monitor him. If he was unfit SAF would have given him a good rollocking and benched him and started with either chico or RVP to partner wellbeck.
wicked
I think you are slightly obsessed with Rooney and can see no wrong with him.
Like the new theory that Fergie is working against the Glazers and not as suspected for them
Red Con
I get why you'd use the Hatton analogy but like I said before, Hatton spends the vast majority of the year overweight and only got 'fit' for 1/2 fights a year whereas Rooney only 'lets go' for 1/2 months of the year and is in great condition for the whole season so not quite the same thing.
As for the first touch of a 'rapist', I don't know where you frequent but all the people that have raped me have been very delicate.
RedBlack
--------------
You can call it obsession, I call it support. Over the years I have seen all sort of fair-weather fans who are quick to dismiss players/managers etc. It doesn't bother me at all. However a player coming on the back of a successful goal-scoring season needs to be defended when people write him off after one start.
You should look inside and go back and look at your post where you made a weird claim that he should be scoring 50 goals based on the chances created and his potential. That shows me he is probably never going to make it in your book. That's fine by me. I will be cheering when he plays next and I wish all our strikers at least have the same strike rate as Rooney had last season. That will do nicely for me. If they surpass its even better.
Funrob
You've completely lost it.
funrob, In my professional opinion, Rooney has been carrying 'extra weight' for a few seasons now not 1-2 months like you claim.
As we all know, weight gain is accumulate. His yo-yo weight affects his overall performance.
Look at Tevez, the lad shed over one stone. He had been playing with that 'padding' and had still been performing to an extent.
You should look inside and go back and look at your post where you made a weird claim that he should be scoring 50 goals based on the chances created and his potential. That shows me he is probably never going to make it in your book. That's fine by me. I will be cheering when he plays next and I wish all our strikers at least have the same strike rate as Rooney had last season. That will do nicely for me. If they surpass its even better.
***
Wicked, I think you should lie down for a while.
if you could be bothered to read the previous posts in this article you will find that I have never made such a claim. In fact I disputed the person who did make the claim and said it was impossible.
You would also find that earlier on you claimed that Rooney was in the shape of his life then actually denied you said that later on.
You really need to think about what you type before you proceed and then read back what you have posted before you press send.
It will stop you looking like a bit of a tool if you did that and also it would stop you wasting other posters time who think they are having a debate with reasonable people.
I think the criticism of Roo is justified but, even if he has regressed as a player, he is still easily one of our best players. Whether that says more about him or the rest of our team is a different debate.
I couldn't care less if most of his goals come from crosses - that is just because of our style of play. Our CMs rarely support the attack so it's hardly a surprise that most of our chances come from wide areas. I have criticised our play for this very reason but it isn't Roo's fault that we play that way.
His poor touch is inexcusable though. Fit or not, a top forward should be able to kill a pass stone dead. I honestly think that my touch is better than Roo's.
if you could be bothered to read the previous posts in this article you will find that I have never made such a claim. In fact I disputed the person who did make the claim and said it was impossible.
------------
Sorry about that. His name started with Red as well so I got confused.
You would also find that earlier on you claimed that Rooney was in the shape of his life then actually denied you said that later on.
You really need to think about what you type before you proceed and then read back what you have posted before you press send.
It will stop you looking like a bit of a tool if you did that and also it would stop you wasting other posters time who think they are having a debate with reasonable people.
---------
For the nth time, I said he was fit enough to start. His fitness was not a reason for him not playing well in that game. Can you please answer my question where I asked why do you think SAF would play him in a game if he is not fit and SAF has Welbeck, Berba, Chico and RVP (RVP was fit and did play last 25 mins) to choose from? This was not even a crunch game. Why do you think you know more about his fitness than SAF and our training/medical staff do?
All you argument is based on a general remark in Rooney's upcoming biography which was made with 2009 season in the context. I don't deny he gains a few pound off-season but when he started against Everton he was fit enough to play. If you think it was so obvious that he wasn't fit then you should also question SAF. He could easily have blasted Rooney and put him on the bench (like with Blackburn game last season, again from the biography). So for the last time I only said he was as fit as he has been recently and that he was fit enough to start. If you got any other impression I am sorry but don't go on about how he was unfit, and shouldn't have started as facts do not support you. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but when SAF put him in the starting line it must be because SAF had no doubts about his fitness.
Muscle isn't fat, ya silly fing! The lad is still growing!
No way Rooney plays tonight, and huge doubt that he could ready for Saturday!!!!
Just to mention, the Blackburn example was just to show that SAF doesn't refrain from blasting and benching any player (inlcuding Rooney) if he thinks they are at fault. But, before anyone points put, I know it was not because of fitness reason but more because of breaching the rules.
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Rooney Back In Contention???
Page 4 of 5
posted on 19/9/12
funrob, only yesterday were you yourself calling our full backs liabilities and that our midfield is poor both offensively and defensively.
When De Gea, Rafael and Evra turn up to matches looking like a beached whale and then have the audacity to question the club's ambition then maybe I won't spend so much time defending them.
posted on 19/9/12
Everyone is using that Everton game to beat him with but Welbeck and Nani were just as bad but no-one is writing them off in the same way.
Jesus Christ, he put on a bit of weight this summer which could be burned off in a week of training and is most probably already gone.
He'll be back by Liverpool at the latest and most probably at some point tonight.
Once he scores a few people will hopefully get off his back and appreciate him much more than a couple of players in Kagawa and RVP who have barely played 7 United games between them.
posted on 19/9/12
Kagawa
What's wrong with questioning the clubs ambition though? Any club that sells their best player for £80 million and doesn't invest that money wisely (at the time of Rooney asking this) should have questions asked.
We as fans feel the need to do this everyday. Why not our biggest player at the time?
Look at our signings since. I'd say Rooney did us a favour.
posted on 19/9/12
rob my only point is there shouldn't be any weight to burn off once the season started
posted on 19/9/12
I see a trend here on ja606 that ever since RVP has been signed and has scored a few goals we are using that as stick to beat Rooney with. Its almost as if we are now fine without him and don't need him at all. Every time I ask someone on a thread about an update on Rooney's injury it is accompanied with remarks slating him and how we shouldn't be bothered to know about his injury now that we have RVP. They will both need to play together for us to be successful and we are entering a period of important PL games back to back. I would much rather have a Rooney in form and starting each game along with RVP.
posted on 19/9/12
Pride
Yeah, maybe he found it a bit hard to burn off by the Everton game but had he not been injured against Fulham , the weight would have been long gone by now and none of this would be news anymore.
He was just unlucky to get injured and that weight issue became frozen in time and a stick to beat him with.
posted on 19/9/12
comment by Pride of the North (U6803)
posted 1 minute ago
rob my only point is there shouldn't be any weight to burn off once the season started
------------------
You are making too much our of it. Rooney played against Barca in pre-season I think and boss must have known his exact level of fitness before the Everton game. Van Persie was on the bench against Everton and if Rooney wasn't fit Sir Alex had nothing to worry about. Why would be play Rooney if he wasn't fit?
posted on 19/9/12
Do not be surprised if one of Sir Alex' last acts at this club is telling Rooney where to go. A seemingly lovely bloke away from football, but the boss is a man that doesn't like to be made a fool of and never forgets. When the time comes that he thinks we can do without Rooney then he'll be out of here.
funrob, after that I honestly can't take you seriously. Your comments are fuelled with bias and is a slander on both the club and the manager. Who does Rooney think he is that he can question the ambition of Sir Alex Ferguson? Get a grip of yourself.
posted on 19/9/12
All I would say is he's a professional sportsman, he'll have plenty of time for drinking, fast food etc when his career is over. He should be in the best shape of his life at the moment obviously barring injuries
posted on 19/9/12
He looked in very good shape at the start of the season, as good as he has ever been
***
I never said that he is in the best shape of his life.
*****
Wicked you are wasting my time.
posted on 19/9/12
Kagawa
You yourself slate the manager for rotating the team and dropping De Gea so you're hardly Sir Alex's biggest fan.
As for Rooney questioning the clubs ambition, i'm pretty sure he was aiming that at the Glazers and since then they've opened the wallet and bought top class players.
I don't know of you remember back then but after selling Ronaldo we barely spent that money and could see City buying up a load of players but we were standing still.
Rooney questioned the ambition of the club and was right to do so.
'Who does Rooney think he is'? One of our top players and someone with the confidence to say what most of us were thinking.
posted on 19/9/12
Who does Rooney think he is that he can question the ambition of Sir Alex Ferguson? Get a grip of yourself.
-----------
And why do you think Sir Alex actually didn't blame him much and accepted him back with both hands? He has never said anything wrong against Rooney for that incident and Rooney himself has been very respectful.
So if he had really questioned ambition of Sir Alex do you think Sir Alex will take him back easily? You do not know what went on behind the scenes and there was even a theory that it was done to put pressure on Glazers. Now I am not saying that is true but all I am saying is that Sir Alex only knows what was said in private and I don't think Rooney was ever disrespectful or questioned SAF otherwise he wouldn't be back.
posted on 19/9/12
All this nonsense about only being on Rooney's back since RVP's acquisition is arrant nonsense.
Sure, some of the noises may be more vociferous but i have been critiquing Rooney for three seasons now - not 'criticising', 'critiquing', as some people don't know the difference.
I christened Rooney the 'Ricky Hatton' of football and i stand by that moniker as i don't see anything to convince me otherwise.
A player of Rooney's ilk should not have his ability to do basics questioned: he has the touch of a first-time rapist, his endlessly cedes possession and his inabiluity to control a simple pass in the final third is what grates me the most.
Players of his ilk all around the globe don't have the questions hanging over them. Just because he is increasingly prolific in front of goal, doesn't mean his glaring deficiencies should be ignored.
posted on 19/9/12
Wicked you are wasting my time.
-------------
If you want to twist words its your wish. All I wanted to say was that he was fit enough to start and he has been as fit enough as he has been recently. Answer me this. Why would SAF start him if he is unfit and we have Wellbeck, RVP and Chico to choose from? This was not even a crunch game, only the first game of the season. Do you think you have some special ability to spot fitness from the stands/TV and you can do better than SAF and training staff who have better access to him and regularly and closely monitor him. If he was unfit SAF would have given him a good rollocking and benched him and started with either chico or RVP to partner wellbeck.
posted on 19/9/12
wicked
I think you are slightly obsessed with Rooney and can see no wrong with him.
Like the new theory that Fergie is working against the Glazers and not as suspected for them
posted on 19/9/12
Red Con
I get why you'd use the Hatton analogy but like I said before, Hatton spends the vast majority of the year overweight and only got 'fit' for 1/2 fights a year whereas Rooney only 'lets go' for 1/2 months of the year and is in great condition for the whole season so not quite the same thing.
As for the first touch of a 'rapist', I don't know where you frequent but all the people that have raped me have been very delicate.
posted on 19/9/12
RedBlack
--------------
You can call it obsession, I call it support. Over the years I have seen all sort of fair-weather fans who are quick to dismiss players/managers etc. It doesn't bother me at all. However a player coming on the back of a successful goal-scoring season needs to be defended when people write him off after one start.
You should look inside and go back and look at your post where you made a weird claim that he should be scoring 50 goals based on the chances created and his potential. That shows me he is probably never going to make it in your book. That's fine by me. I will be cheering when he plays next and I wish all our strikers at least have the same strike rate as Rooney had last season. That will do nicely for me. If they surpass its even better.
posted on 19/9/12
Funrob
You've completely lost it.
posted on 19/9/12
funrob, In my professional opinion, Rooney has been carrying 'extra weight' for a few seasons now not 1-2 months like you claim.
As we all know, weight gain is accumulate. His yo-yo weight affects his overall performance.
Look at Tevez, the lad shed over one stone. He had been playing with that 'padding' and had still been performing to an extent.
posted on 19/9/12
Red Indian
Yawn.
posted on 19/9/12
You should look inside and go back and look at your post where you made a weird claim that he should be scoring 50 goals based on the chances created and his potential. That shows me he is probably never going to make it in your book. That's fine by me. I will be cheering when he plays next and I wish all our strikers at least have the same strike rate as Rooney had last season. That will do nicely for me. If they surpass its even better.
***
Wicked, I think you should lie down for a while.
if you could be bothered to read the previous posts in this article you will find that I have never made such a claim. In fact I disputed the person who did make the claim and said it was impossible.
You would also find that earlier on you claimed that Rooney was in the shape of his life then actually denied you said that later on.
You really need to think about what you type before you proceed and then read back what you have posted before you press send.
It will stop you looking like a bit of a tool if you did that and also it would stop you wasting other posters time who think they are having a debate with reasonable people.
posted on 19/9/12
I think the criticism of Roo is justified but, even if he has regressed as a player, he is still easily one of our best players. Whether that says more about him or the rest of our team is a different debate.
I couldn't care less if most of his goals come from crosses - that is just because of our style of play. Our CMs rarely support the attack so it's hardly a surprise that most of our chances come from wide areas. I have criticised our play for this very reason but it isn't Roo's fault that we play that way.
His poor touch is inexcusable though. Fit or not, a top forward should be able to kill a pass stone dead. I honestly think that my touch is better than Roo's.
posted on 19/9/12
if you could be bothered to read the previous posts in this article you will find that I have never made such a claim. In fact I disputed the person who did make the claim and said it was impossible.
------------
Sorry about that. His name started with Red as well so I got confused.
You would also find that earlier on you claimed that Rooney was in the shape of his life then actually denied you said that later on.
You really need to think about what you type before you proceed and then read back what you have posted before you press send.
It will stop you looking like a bit of a tool if you did that and also it would stop you wasting other posters time who think they are having a debate with reasonable people.
---------
For the nth time, I said he was fit enough to start. His fitness was not a reason for him not playing well in that game. Can you please answer my question where I asked why do you think SAF would play him in a game if he is not fit and SAF has Welbeck, Berba, Chico and RVP (RVP was fit and did play last 25 mins) to choose from? This was not even a crunch game. Why do you think you know more about his fitness than SAF and our training/medical staff do?
All you argument is based on a general remark in Rooney's upcoming biography which was made with 2009 season in the context. I don't deny he gains a few pound off-season but when he started against Everton he was fit enough to play. If you think it was so obvious that he wasn't fit then you should also question SAF. He could easily have blasted Rooney and put him on the bench (like with Blackburn game last season, again from the biography). So for the last time I only said he was as fit as he has been recently and that he was fit enough to start. If you got any other impression I am sorry but don't go on about how he was unfit, and shouldn't have started as facts do not support you. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but when SAF put him in the starting line it must be because SAF had no doubts about his fitness.
posted on 19/9/12
Muscle isn't fat, ya silly fing! The lad is still growing!
No way Rooney plays tonight, and huge doubt that he could ready for Saturday!!!!
posted on 19/9/12
Just to mention, the Blackburn example was just to show that SAF doesn't refrain from blasting and benching any player (inlcuding Rooney) if he thinks they are at fault. But, before anyone points put, I know it was not because of fitness reason but more because of breaching the rules.
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