Rob, we all love Giggs and Scholes. However, in a two man midfield they are finished at this level. Giggs should not be starting league games and Scholes should start very few, but accompanied by two other energetic midfielders so he can be used effectively. Anderson and Cleverley are better options in midfield and they should be starting.
Furthermore, the Carrick-Scholes partnership on a defensive level is the worst in the league. It has zero energy, movement or capacity to close down and pass and move with the attackers. In short, it is an abomination of a midfield pairing. Those that cannot see this are either blinkered or just know very little about the game and what a midfielder requires.
We still aren't playing well and we still lack an identity. This is because the correct players aren't being used to compliment one another. So, I just cannot agree we have looked good going forward. We have scored a lot of goals but in general we lack cohesion, movement and fluidity and are relying on our strikers to produce the magic. This won't happen all season. This is why people are worried.
There's a line between supporting a player and then having to admit they're just not up to the standard anymore. Giggs and Scholes, in two man midfields, are not up to that and over the course of a long season it's only going to be appear more clear.
Look, you've made me bite.
Dunc
That's ridiculous! How can you state that there is a direct correlation between how much a supporter pays and how long it takes for us to have a shot on target?
Scholes played well on Saturday. He got many balls out wide to Young and Valencia. How is it that 'plodding' 40 year olds fault that those wingers didn't cross the ball with any accuracy at all?
In all of United's history, with some of our greatest players we've struggled to win games. Sometimes, guess what, we've lost them too!
In 1996 we lost 5-0 to Newcastle, 6-3 to Saints, 2-1 at home to Chelsea and 1-0 at home to Fenerbahce all in the space of 2 weeks. That was with Keane, Schmeichel, Beckham and all the legends of the time.
Imagine if that happened today? Everyone would be demanding Sir Alex be sacked.
The fact is we're winning games and have traditionally struggled in the first half of the season. We're actually overachieving compared to past seasons and yet I come on here and find people over-analysing things because that's all you can do on a site like this.
The more you over-analyse things, the harder it will be to actually be happy because you're looking far too closely at it all.
Scholes played well on Saturday. He got many balls out wide to Young and Valencia. How is it that 'plodding' 40 year olds fault that those wingers didn't cross the ball with any accuracy at all?
===================================================
very very true
That's ridiculous! How can you state that there is a direct correlation between how much a supporter pays and how long it takes for us to have a shot on target?
-------------
if im paying 50 quid as a supporter, then im going to be seriously naffed off if after an hour that team hasnt at least tested the villa keeper.
if im paying for a ticket, travel and accomodation to watch that performance in braga, for the first 75 mins, im seriously going to be naffed off.
these are world class players Rob, and if they can turn it on after they are 2-0 down, why the feck cant they turn on a performance before then??
Kagawa
Anderson and Cleverley concede goals in a 2 man midfield too.
If the wingers are playing badly (as on Saturday) it doesn't matter what midfield is playing, they will come under immense pressure if we're constantly giving the ball away up front.
Because we play with so much width there is always going to be a huge amount of space through the middle of the park.
Had the wingers done their job properly on Saturday, we would have won that game convincingly and people (i'd hope) would be lauding Scholes for his great passing out wide ability.
Without looking at any of these posts, I am willing to bet my house that some idiot has put Chicarito up front and RVP on the right.
Scholes played well on Saturday. He got many balls out wide to Young and Valencia. How is it that 'plodding' 40 year olds fault that those wingers didn't cross the ball with any accuracy at all?
-------------------
its that "plodding 40 year olds fault that he found himself out on the RW, found himself giving the ball away with a sheite pass ( of which he made a few) and then found himself being inable to make up the ground to get back resulting in us conceeding.
in fact he didnt even make ANY effort to get back.
its also his fault for the fantastic pass for the first goal, that no-one else in the team could have played aswell
Scholes played well on Saturday.
.........................
What game were you watching?
Dunc
It's not a choice though. Do you really think the explanation is as easy as just 'choosing' to turn it on or off?
You've played football, so have I. You must understand that when a team is winning they lose a small percentage of their intensity. We did against Chelsea and others and our opponents have against us.
Football games are made up of small moments. We were playing badly from the wings against Villa and brought Hernandez on. Scholes puts an amazing ball through the middle (which no-one seems to admit in this thread) and Hernandez finishes well. We get momentum from that and win the game.
Football isn't an exact science and the players are of course trying their hardest but sometimes things just don't go to plan. Luckily, more than most other clubs we have an excellent plan B which is why i'm so confident this season.
comment by Red Rob (U9808) posted 2 hours, 53 minutes ago
Whatever team plays will most probably win.
__________________
^ I agree 100%.
I don't care what team SAF picks, I will expect us to win. Why? Because I look at our squad and then I look at Norwich's squad and, on paper, we should win comfortably.
Of course it won't be comfortable - we will make it hard for ourselves like we normally do but why the frak should we not be confident of beating Norwich FFS? We have beaten Chelsea, Arsenal and Villa in our last 3 games and you lot are hammering Rob for being confident that we can beat Norwich? Strewth
Are United fans not allowed to be confident ever?
Just because we fans can get complacent, it does not mean that the players will be. I trust the manager not to allow that.
Some of you have a serious attitude problem imo. Answer me this, if you were to put money on this game, would you be backing Norwich or United?
Be honest.
Redmisty
Probably my favourite post on here ever
Just because we fans can get complacent, it does not mean that the players will be. I trust the manager not to allow that.
........................
So, you don't think this habit of being two goals down before deciding to play isn't being complacent.
Some of you have a serious attitude problem imo. Answer me this, if you were to put money on this game, would you be backing Norwich or United?
Be honest.
-------------
its not that simple though, its dependant on the team that is chosen.
some people are also too easy to underestimate the opposition.
answer me this, last season, wigan away.. the league in our hands, who would you have put money on, utd or wigan?
All I ever ask for on here is common sense rather than some weird fear of tempting fate and superstitious fear of being confident in United winning a game of football.
Redmisty
Probably my favourite post on here ever
-------
only because he agree's with you Rob
Dunc
Wigan were on an incredible run of wins and around that time they beat Newcastle 4-0 at home and won at Arsenal.
Norwich have been poor this season and lost 5-2 at home to Liverpool a few weeks back. They are not in a great run of form.
They won't be easy, no-one is saying that but we should at least have some confidence in beating them.
Haha Dunc
He just speaks common sense. That's why I like it!
VC
It wasn't complacent going 2-0 down to Villa, it was just a football match where a decent team (who already beat Man City 4-2 at the Etihad this season) went 2-0 up.
That's allowed to happen without United being made to look by their own fans as 'complacent'.
We went to plan B and won. That's why i'm so confident. Very few other teams have a plan B like ours so why not think we can win games?
All I ever ask for on here is common sense rather than some weird fear of tempting fate and superstitious fear of being confident in United winning a game of football.
***
United have lost lots of football matches.. many we should have won. Many I have put money on..... and lost.
United can't just expect to turn up and win games as you are suggesting. Every team deserves respect and a game plan. That arrogance is one or the reasons that other fans hate United.
It is not a signf madness t o
VC
I even told you before the Braga game that Villa away would be tough and we'd need our bigger players for that rather than Braga.
*It is not a sign of madness to believe United can lose.
Wigan were on an incredible run of wins and around that time
.................
They lost the game before they played us 2-1. But you still wouldn't have bet on them to win against us, would you?
Scrap that, you probably would have.
It wasn't complacent going 2-0 down to Villa
.................
Are you saying it was deliberate?
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Norwich
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posted on 13/11/12
Rob, we all love Giggs and Scholes. However, in a two man midfield they are finished at this level. Giggs should not be starting league games and Scholes should start very few, but accompanied by two other energetic midfielders so he can be used effectively. Anderson and Cleverley are better options in midfield and they should be starting.
Furthermore, the Carrick-Scholes partnership on a defensive level is the worst in the league. It has zero energy, movement or capacity to close down and pass and move with the attackers. In short, it is an abomination of a midfield pairing. Those that cannot see this are either blinkered or just know very little about the game and what a midfielder requires.
We still aren't playing well and we still lack an identity. This is because the correct players aren't being used to compliment one another. So, I just cannot agree we have looked good going forward. We have scored a lot of goals but in general we lack cohesion, movement and fluidity and are relying on our strikers to produce the magic. This won't happen all season. This is why people are worried.
There's a line between supporting a player and then having to admit they're just not up to the standard anymore. Giggs and Scholes, in two man midfields, are not up to that and over the course of a long season it's only going to be appear more clear.
Look, you've made me bite.
posted on 13/11/12
Dunc
That's ridiculous! How can you state that there is a direct correlation between how much a supporter pays and how long it takes for us to have a shot on target?
Scholes played well on Saturday. He got many balls out wide to Young and Valencia. How is it that 'plodding' 40 year olds fault that those wingers didn't cross the ball with any accuracy at all?
In all of United's history, with some of our greatest players we've struggled to win games. Sometimes, guess what, we've lost them too!
In 1996 we lost 5-0 to Newcastle, 6-3 to Saints, 2-1 at home to Chelsea and 1-0 at home to Fenerbahce all in the space of 2 weeks. That was with Keane, Schmeichel, Beckham and all the legends of the time.
Imagine if that happened today? Everyone would be demanding Sir Alex be sacked.
The fact is we're winning games and have traditionally struggled in the first half of the season. We're actually overachieving compared to past seasons and yet I come on here and find people over-analysing things because that's all you can do on a site like this.
The more you over-analyse things, the harder it will be to actually be happy because you're looking far too closely at it all.
posted on 13/11/12
Scholes played well on Saturday. He got many balls out wide to Young and Valencia. How is it that 'plodding' 40 year olds fault that those wingers didn't cross the ball with any accuracy at all?
===================================================
very very true
posted on 13/11/12
That's ridiculous! How can you state that there is a direct correlation between how much a supporter pays and how long it takes for us to have a shot on target?
-------------
if im paying 50 quid as a supporter, then im going to be seriously naffed off if after an hour that team hasnt at least tested the villa keeper.
if im paying for a ticket, travel and accomodation to watch that performance in braga, for the first 75 mins, im seriously going to be naffed off.
these are world class players Rob, and if they can turn it on after they are 2-0 down, why the feck cant they turn on a performance before then??
posted on 13/11/12
Kagawa
Anderson and Cleverley concede goals in a 2 man midfield too.
If the wingers are playing badly (as on Saturday) it doesn't matter what midfield is playing, they will come under immense pressure if we're constantly giving the ball away up front.
Because we play with so much width there is always going to be a huge amount of space through the middle of the park.
Had the wingers done their job properly on Saturday, we would have won that game convincingly and people (i'd hope) would be lauding Scholes for his great passing out wide ability.
posted on 13/11/12
Without looking at any of these posts, I am willing to bet my house that some idiot has put Chicarito up front and RVP on the right.
posted on 13/11/12
Scholes played well on Saturday. He got many balls out wide to Young and Valencia. How is it that 'plodding' 40 year olds fault that those wingers didn't cross the ball with any accuracy at all?
-------------------
its that "plodding 40 year olds fault that he found himself out on the RW, found himself giving the ball away with a sheite pass ( of which he made a few) and then found himself being inable to make up the ground to get back resulting in us conceeding.
in fact he didnt even make ANY effort to get back.
posted on 13/11/12
its also his fault for the fantastic pass for the first goal, that no-one else in the team could have played aswell
posted on 13/11/12
Scholes played well on Saturday.
.........................
What game were you watching?
posted on 13/11/12
Dunc
It's not a choice though. Do you really think the explanation is as easy as just 'choosing' to turn it on or off?
You've played football, so have I. You must understand that when a team is winning they lose a small percentage of their intensity. We did against Chelsea and others and our opponents have against us.
Football games are made up of small moments. We were playing badly from the wings against Villa and brought Hernandez on. Scholes puts an amazing ball through the middle (which no-one seems to admit in this thread) and Hernandez finishes well. We get momentum from that and win the game.
Football isn't an exact science and the players are of course trying their hardest but sometimes things just don't go to plan. Luckily, more than most other clubs we have an excellent plan B which is why i'm so confident this season.
posted on 13/11/12
comment by Red Rob (U9808) posted 2 hours, 53 minutes ago
Whatever team plays will most probably win.
__________________
^ I agree 100%.
I don't care what team SAF picks, I will expect us to win. Why? Because I look at our squad and then I look at Norwich's squad and, on paper, we should win comfortably.
Of course it won't be comfortable - we will make it hard for ourselves like we normally do but why the frak should we not be confident of beating Norwich FFS? We have beaten Chelsea, Arsenal and Villa in our last 3 games and you lot are hammering Rob for being confident that we can beat Norwich? Strewth
Are United fans not allowed to be confident ever?
Just because we fans can get complacent, it does not mean that the players will be. I trust the manager not to allow that.
Some of you have a serious attitude problem imo. Answer me this, if you were to put money on this game, would you be backing Norwich or United?
Be honest.
posted on 13/11/12
Redmisty
Probably my favourite post on here ever
posted on 13/11/12
posted on 13/11/12
Just because we fans can get complacent, it does not mean that the players will be. I trust the manager not to allow that.
........................
So, you don't think this habit of being two goals down before deciding to play isn't being complacent.
posted on 13/11/12
Some of you have a serious attitude problem imo. Answer me this, if you were to put money on this game, would you be backing Norwich or United?
Be honest.
-------------
its not that simple though, its dependant on the team that is chosen.
some people are also too easy to underestimate the opposition.
answer me this, last season, wigan away.. the league in our hands, who would you have put money on, utd or wigan?
posted on 13/11/12
All I ever ask for on here is common sense rather than some weird fear of tempting fate and superstitious fear of being confident in United winning a game of football.
posted on 13/11/12
Redmisty
Probably my favourite post on here ever
-------
only because he agree's with you Rob
posted on 13/11/12
Dunc
Wigan were on an incredible run of wins and around that time they beat Newcastle 4-0 at home and won at Arsenal.
Norwich have been poor this season and lost 5-2 at home to Liverpool a few weeks back. They are not in a great run of form.
They won't be easy, no-one is saying that but we should at least have some confidence in beating them.
posted on 13/11/12
Haha Dunc
He just speaks common sense. That's why I like it!
posted on 13/11/12
VC
It wasn't complacent going 2-0 down to Villa, it was just a football match where a decent team (who already beat Man City 4-2 at the Etihad this season) went 2-0 up.
That's allowed to happen without United being made to look by their own fans as 'complacent'.
We went to plan B and won. That's why i'm so confident. Very few other teams have a plan B like ours so why not think we can win games?
posted on 13/11/12
All I ever ask for on here is common sense rather than some weird fear of tempting fate and superstitious fear of being confident in United winning a game of football.
***
United have lost lots of football matches.. many we should have won. Many I have put money on..... and lost.
United can't just expect to turn up and win games as you are suggesting. Every team deserves respect and a game plan. That arrogance is one or the reasons that other fans hate United.
It is not a signf madness t o
posted on 13/11/12
VC
I even told you before the Braga game that Villa away would be tough and we'd need our bigger players for that rather than Braga.
posted on 13/11/12
*It is not a sign of madness to believe United can lose.
posted on 13/11/12
Wigan were on an incredible run of wins and around that time
.................
They lost the game before they played us 2-1. But you still wouldn't have bet on them to win against us, would you?
Scrap that, you probably would have.
posted on 13/11/12
It wasn't complacent going 2-0 down to Villa
.................
Are you saying it was deliberate?
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