Thanks Ji. That's all I'm trying to say. That maybe things aren't always as obvious as they appear on the surface. Try to think with a more open mind about some things,
comment by Better Call Martial - Football taught by Matt Busby (U11781)
posted 33 minutes ago
Danilo was out injured which is why W.Carvalho started.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Didn't realise that - thanks Arab
If this guy was the second best player of all time I think he'd have done better with Portugal.
****
Clearly he isn't the second best 'of all time'. He might be currently...
eg. he isn't half the player Maradonna was...now he single handedly did drag an average international side all the way... but that's another story.
As as you mention there are a few players who can claim to be above Ronaldo in the all time list. I could comfortably name 5 who I think were better. But this thread isn't about this so I wont.
Sometimes it's more about he team than the star players
***
well done you are learning. See (West) Germany and Italy. And yes, even Greece and Denmark. However it helps that you have team spirit whilst having great players, too. Both Greece and Denmark were unexplained enigmas imo.
RBW, I just don't think there is team spirit with Ronaldo. In Portugals 2 games in this tournament I've seen him hog the ball and take on impossible shots while teammates were in better positions. Ive seen him kick off when teammates didn't pass to him on demand and I've seen him take on every free kick that's come his way.
I don't doubt his quality. But I doubt his role in this Portugal side.
Robb,
I think your point would have been better received if you'd said that Portugal would be better if they weren't pandering to Ronaldo - passing to him every time, giving him free reign to smash useless free kicks at goal from every angle and distance etc...
If they approached the game in a more team-orientated manor *with* Ronaldo, they'd likely so much better. They've got a talented midfield and wide attacking areas and a decent defence.
While we're on the subject of Portugal, GHAGooner has posted the link below on the Arsenal board.
It's an absolutely superb piece of Icelandic wummery:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/jun/15/iceland-portugal-reykjavik-grapevine-euro-2016-commentary
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 12 minutes ago
Robb,
I think your point would have been better received if you'd said that Portugal would be better if they weren't pandering to Ronaldo - passing to him every time, giving him free reign to smash useless free kicks at goal from every angle and distance etc...
If they approached the game in a more team-orientated manor *with* Ronaldo, they'd likely so much better. They've got a talented midfield and wide attacking areas and a decent defence.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That is what I was trying to say perhaps without as much success.
And yeah, they'd deffo be better by playing as a team with Ronaldo. I just think that his very presence there stops that happening.
William Carvalho was excellent last night. Controlled the game completely. His passing has improved a lot since I last watched him too.
comment by Prat... No, Prak... No, Park (U13708)
posted 1 hour, 50 minutes ago
comment by Manfrombelmonty (U1705)
posted 9 hours, 12 minutes ago
comment by Manfrombelmonty (U1705)
posted 53 minutes ago
comment by Prat... No, Prak... No, Park (U13708)
posted 39 minutes ago
Don't agree with Robb... But...
Liverpool's win record was better without Gerrard during his period (or something along those lines)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Are there stats for this?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anything?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2012/apr/10/the-question-steven-gerrard-liverpool
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So a 12 game sample of a decade long career and 700+ games. I'll take that as a 'no' then
Robb I see you getting spanked here again well and good. You never get tired of the spanking my good man.
Well obviously its in comparison to a long career, how else could it be ?
We are talking about the star player not playing, and if the results improve or decline, so clearly the star player plays in all the games unless banned or injured;
So yes the stats provided are meaningful.
comment by whoskissingcamerasinoz (U1703)
posted 23 minutes ago
William Carvalho was excellent last night. Controlled the game completely. His passing has improved a lot since I last watched him too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wouldn't go as far as excellent. I'd say it was a solid enough performance, but no better than Danilo's on Tuesday.
Sporting might command a ridiculous fee for Carvalho - they really don't want him to leave and don't need to sell.
But Danilo - who's the same age, plays the same position, similar attributes, coming off an excellent season at Porto - has a EUR40m release clause.
Arsenal were sniffing around him a couple of months ago, and I wouldn't be too surprised to see a top club in one of the big four leagues trigger that clause this summer.
comment by scholayScholes (U13961)
posted 4 minutes ago
Robb I see you getting spanked here again well and good. You never get tired of the spanking my good man.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually the more sensible people on here are seeing my point.
But by all means live in the simple minded world where you think Ronaldo is the only answer to the Portuguese question.
I'm sure you thought I was being spanked when I wanted LVG gone and you backed him good and proper. How did that work out my good man?
comment by Robb Hodgson (U20351)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by scholayScholes (U13961)
posted 4 minutes ago
Robb I see you getting spanked here again well and good. You never get tired of the spanking my good man.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually the more sensible people on here are seeing my point.
But by all means live in the simple minded world where you think Ronaldo is the only answer to the Portuguese question.
I'm sure you thought I was being spanked when I wanted LVG gone and you backed him good and proper. How did that work out my good man?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Worked out very well, won us the Fa cup and failed in the prem. Not a complete disaster like you boy Moyes.
comment by scholayScholes (U13961)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Robb Hodgson (U20351)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by scholayScholes (U13961)
posted 4 minutes ago
Robb I see you getting spanked here again well and good. You never get tired of the spanking my good man.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually the more sensible people on here are seeing my point.
But by all means live in the simple minded world where you think Ronaldo is the only answer to the Portuguese question.
I'm sure you thought I was being spanked when I wanted LVG gone and you backed him good and proper. How did that work out my good man?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Worked out very well, won us the Fa cup and failed in the prem. Not a complete disaster like you boy Moyes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
LVG worked out very well?
amazing. Keep it up
In my top 5 I'd have (in no order) Maradona, Messi, Pele, original Ronaldo and Baresi
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maradona never once got more than 27 goals in a single season (in all comps). Ronaldo got that before xmas a few years ago.
comment by Stretford_Ender85 (U10955)
posted 14 minutes ago
In my top 5 I'd have (in no order) Maradona, Messi, Pele, original Ronaldo and Baresi
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maradona never once got more than 27 goals in a single season (in all comps). Ronaldo got that before xmas a few years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Great example of not understanding context when looking at players and their careers.
My top 5 would include George and Robbo, but I'm a United supporter.
No its not Robb. The Spanish league is dominant and they still score loads. Maradona just more romantic but he didn't utterly dominate teams like messi n Ronaldo did.
comment by Stretford_Ender85 (U10955)
posted 1 hour, 18 minutes ago
No its not Robb. The Spanish league is dominant and they still score loads. Maradona just more romantic but he didn't utterly dominate teams like messi n Ronaldo did.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You don't understand the difference in quality between the Italian defences then and the rubbish la liga defences of now. Suarez got 59 goals this season. Would he get that in the PL? Or is it that he's in a team that is so good that he can't help but score so many.
Maradona was never in such a dominant side like messi and ronaldo are so never got such figures. But maradona was about more than just goals. He controlled games in ways that ronaldo can't. Hence why he took an average Argentina side to the world cup in 86 almost single handedly where ronaldo pouts and stomps the ground when he can't do the same for Portugal.
Put a fully fit aguero in the Real side instead of ronaldo and I bet he gets 50 goals a season
Sign in if you want to comment
William Carvalho
Page 4 of 4
posted on 19/6/16
Thanks Ji. That's all I'm trying to say. That maybe things aren't always as obvious as they appear on the surface. Try to think with a more open mind about some things,
posted on 19/6/16
comment by Better Call Martial - Football taught by Matt Busby (U11781)
posted 33 minutes ago
Danilo was out injured which is why W.Carvalho started.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Didn't realise that - thanks Arab
posted on 19/6/16
If this guy was the second best player of all time I think he'd have done better with Portugal.
****
Clearly he isn't the second best 'of all time'. He might be currently...
eg. he isn't half the player Maradonna was...now he single handedly did drag an average international side all the way... but that's another story.
As as you mention there are a few players who can claim to be above Ronaldo in the all time list. I could comfortably name 5 who I think were better. But this thread isn't about this so I wont.
Sometimes it's more about he team than the star players
***
well done you are learning. See (West) Germany and Italy. And yes, even Greece and Denmark. However it helps that you have team spirit whilst having great players, too. Both Greece and Denmark were unexplained enigmas imo.
posted on 19/6/16
RBW, I just don't think there is team spirit with Ronaldo. In Portugals 2 games in this tournament I've seen him hog the ball and take on impossible shots while teammates were in better positions. Ive seen him kick off when teammates didn't pass to him on demand and I've seen him take on every free kick that's come his way.
I don't doubt his quality. But I doubt his role in this Portugal side.
posted on 19/6/16
Robb,
I think your point would have been better received if you'd said that Portugal would be better if they weren't pandering to Ronaldo - passing to him every time, giving him free reign to smash useless free kicks at goal from every angle and distance etc...
If they approached the game in a more team-orientated manor *with* Ronaldo, they'd likely so much better. They've got a talented midfield and wide attacking areas and a decent defence.
posted on 19/6/16
While we're on the subject of Portugal, GHAGooner has posted the link below on the Arsenal board.
It's an absolutely superb piece of Icelandic wummery:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/jun/15/iceland-portugal-reykjavik-grapevine-euro-2016-commentary
posted on 19/6/16
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 12 minutes ago
Robb,
I think your point would have been better received if you'd said that Portugal would be better if they weren't pandering to Ronaldo - passing to him every time, giving him free reign to smash useless free kicks at goal from every angle and distance etc...
If they approached the game in a more team-orientated manor *with* Ronaldo, they'd likely so much better. They've got a talented midfield and wide attacking areas and a decent defence.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That is what I was trying to say perhaps without as much success.
And yeah, they'd deffo be better by playing as a team with Ronaldo. I just think that his very presence there stops that happening.
posted on 19/6/16
William Carvalho was excellent last night. Controlled the game completely. His passing has improved a lot since I last watched him too.
posted on 19/6/16
comment by Prat... No, Prak... No, Park (U13708)
posted 1 hour, 50 minutes ago
comment by Manfrombelmonty (U1705)
posted 9 hours, 12 minutes ago
comment by Manfrombelmonty (U1705)
posted 53 minutes ago
comment by Prat... No, Prak... No, Park (U13708)
posted 39 minutes ago
Don't agree with Robb... But...
Liverpool's win record was better without Gerrard during his period (or something along those lines)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Are there stats for this?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anything?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2012/apr/10/the-question-steven-gerrard-liverpool
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So a 12 game sample of a decade long career and 700+ games. I'll take that as a 'no' then
posted on 19/6/16
Robb I see you getting spanked here again well and good. You never get tired of the spanking my good man.
posted on 19/6/16
Well obviously its in comparison to a long career, how else could it be ?
We are talking about the star player not playing, and if the results improve or decline, so clearly the star player plays in all the games unless banned or injured;
So yes the stats provided are meaningful.
posted on 19/6/16
comment by whoskissingcamerasinoz (U1703)
posted 23 minutes ago
William Carvalho was excellent last night. Controlled the game completely. His passing has improved a lot since I last watched him too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wouldn't go as far as excellent. I'd say it was a solid enough performance, but no better than Danilo's on Tuesday.
Sporting might command a ridiculous fee for Carvalho - they really don't want him to leave and don't need to sell.
But Danilo - who's the same age, plays the same position, similar attributes, coming off an excellent season at Porto - has a EUR40m release clause.
Arsenal were sniffing around him a couple of months ago, and I wouldn't be too surprised to see a top club in one of the big four leagues trigger that clause this summer.
posted on 19/6/16
comment by scholayScholes (U13961)
posted 4 minutes ago
Robb I see you getting spanked here again well and good. You never get tired of the spanking my good man.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually the more sensible people on here are seeing my point.
But by all means live in the simple minded world where you think Ronaldo is the only answer to the Portuguese question.
I'm sure you thought I was being spanked when I wanted LVG gone and you backed him good and proper. How did that work out my good man?
posted on 19/6/16
comment by Robb Hodgson (U20351)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by scholayScholes (U13961)
posted 4 minutes ago
Robb I see you getting spanked here again well and good. You never get tired of the spanking my good man.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually the more sensible people on here are seeing my point.
But by all means live in the simple minded world where you think Ronaldo is the only answer to the Portuguese question.
I'm sure you thought I was being spanked when I wanted LVG gone and you backed him good and proper. How did that work out my good man?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Worked out very well, won us the Fa cup and failed in the prem. Not a complete disaster like you boy Moyes.
posted on 19/6/16
comment by scholayScholes (U13961)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Robb Hodgson (U20351)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by scholayScholes (U13961)
posted 4 minutes ago
Robb I see you getting spanked here again well and good. You never get tired of the spanking my good man.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually the more sensible people on here are seeing my point.
But by all means live in the simple minded world where you think Ronaldo is the only answer to the Portuguese question.
I'm sure you thought I was being spanked when I wanted LVG gone and you backed him good and proper. How did that work out my good man?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Worked out very well, won us the Fa cup and failed in the prem. Not a complete disaster like you boy Moyes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
LVG worked out very well?
amazing. Keep it up
posted on 19/6/16
In my top 5 I'd have (in no order) Maradona, Messi, Pele, original Ronaldo and Baresi
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maradona never once got more than 27 goals in a single season (in all comps). Ronaldo got that before xmas a few years ago.
posted on 19/6/16
comment by Stretford_Ender85 (U10955)
posted 14 minutes ago
In my top 5 I'd have (in no order) Maradona, Messi, Pele, original Ronaldo and Baresi
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maradona never once got more than 27 goals in a single season (in all comps). Ronaldo got that before xmas a few years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Great example of not understanding context when looking at players and their careers.
posted on 19/6/16
My top 5 would include George and Robbo, but I'm a United supporter.
posted on 19/6/16
No its not Robb. The Spanish league is dominant and they still score loads. Maradona just more romantic but he didn't utterly dominate teams like messi n Ronaldo did.
posted on 19/6/16
comment by Stretford_Ender85 (U10955)
posted 1 hour, 18 minutes ago
No its not Robb. The Spanish league is dominant and they still score loads. Maradona just more romantic but he didn't utterly dominate teams like messi n Ronaldo did.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You don't understand the difference in quality between the Italian defences then and the rubbish la liga defences of now. Suarez got 59 goals this season. Would he get that in the PL? Or is it that he's in a team that is so good that he can't help but score so many.
Maradona was never in such a dominant side like messi and ronaldo are so never got such figures. But maradona was about more than just goals. He controlled games in ways that ronaldo can't. Hence why he took an average Argentina side to the world cup in 86 almost single handedly where ronaldo pouts and stomps the ground when he can't do the same for Portugal.
Put a fully fit aguero in the Real side instead of ronaldo and I bet he gets 50 goals a season
Page 4 of 4