I see a call for "Champions only" to be entered. So people want a competition where the teams are:
Real Madrid
Bayern Munich
Chelsea
Juventus
Benfica (beaten 5-0 by Basel - pointless in group)
Monaco - (3-0, 4-1, 5-2 defeats, bottom.)
Spartak Moscow (7-0 to Liverpool)
Shakhtar Donetsk
Anderlecht (5-0, 4-0, 3-0, 3-0 defeats)
Feyenoord (4-0 and a couple of 3-1 defeats)
Besiktas
Basel
Slavia Prague (Beaten by APOEL in play-off)
Viiturol Constanta (beaten by APOEL in play-off)
Rijeka (beaten in play-off)
APOEL (6-0 and 3x 3-0 defeats)
Celtic (7-0, 5-1 and 3-0 defeats)
Maribor (7-0 and a couple of 3-0 defeats)
BATE Borisov (beaten by Slavia, hammered by not good enough for CL Arsenal)
You get the picture.
As for a straight knockout involving more than champions - this seems to rely heavily on the draw throwing up at least one great game a round. Assuming it is everyone in from the start (would have to lose 15 teams somehow) the chances of a big tie aren't great. You are likely to get 32 very one sided games - the talent pool just isn't that great. If you were lucky enough to get 3 or 4 big ties in the first round then the rest of the tournament will be very low in quality.
Wonder how much interest there will be in Barca reserves slapping a Lithuanian team for 20 over 2 legs, while Chelsea's academy play the Czech champions 24 hours after facing the MK Dons in the EFL trophy - and still stick double figures in.
I see the FA Cup brought in as a comparison. A competition I am regularly told is insignificant now. Allegedly every single one of the 3 FA Cups Arsenal have won is tainted due to the "luck of the draw".
Millwall getting to the final in 2004 is one good example of a team getting through to the final due to luck of the draw - rather than merit of beating the best teams.
I see some saying the format favours the "rich". No, it actually favours the "poor" by guaranteeing them big games if they get through the qualifiers.
see some saying the format favours the "rich". No, it actually favours the "poor" by guaranteeing them big games if they get through the qualifiers.
--
But in having to play qualifiers, rounds of them in the first place doesn't favour them. Compared to rich leagues that have 4 places, 3 automatic in groups.
I'd swap it so that champions go straight in, everyone else played qualifiers.
"Allegedly every single one of the 3 FA Cups Arsenal have won is tainted due to the "luck of the draw"."
These sorts of comments always make me laugh.
Why does it make you laugh, Winston? It is very true.
D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
Is it true?
Sounds to me like a few people have had a dig and you've taken it to heart.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 18 seconds ago
D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
Is it true?
Sounds to me like a few people have had a dig and you've taken it to heart.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A "few" . Haven't taken it to heart, I know Arsenal fully deserved the 3 trophies. However it is the general attitude towards the cup.
Look at attendance figures. Way down in the majority of cases compared to league games - unless a big boy is in town. People still talk about the "romance of the cup". The romance of the cup has long been replaced by apathy.
Some people seem left behind in the 70s.
Summary: Whatever system results in the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer is surely the best. The last thing we want in football is a level playing field. (as long as it's English teams that are the ones benefiting)
D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
What has that got to do with your claim?
I haven't seen a single person that Arsenal's cup wins are tainted because of the luck of the draw.
Sounds to me like you've heard a few digs from people - much like digs that are made against most teams - and you're making out that poor old Arsenal are the victims of a prejudice.
Diddums.
I agree that straight knock out would be more exciting but I don’t agree with it being unseeded.
Weed out the weaker teams early on. Would anyway really want to see Apoel vs Maribor or Celtic vs Qarabag and the winner meeting in the 2nd round and then just getting tonked by the next decent team they meet anyway.
What has it got to do with my point that people see the FA Cup as "insignificant now"? Everything.
I haven't made out Arsenal are the victims of prejudice at all. They were used as an example of the wide spread apathy towards the FA Cup - how the "romance of the FA Cup" has been long lost.
Nice attempt to be patronising at the end as well. Shame you failed with the comment that preceded it though...
Unseeded all the way, chuck em all together and see what happens.
Otherwise you’d just get Real, Barca, PSG battering cannon fodder till after Christmas, and it’d be just as boring as the group stages are now.
D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
Then you've put your point across poorly, because what you describe has nothing to do with the 'luck of the draw', as you describe.
The only failure is yours. Hope this helps.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 hour, 19 minutes ago
Can Solo (U6997)
Do you think it's fair to fans of clubs such as Palace, Villa, Wigan etc. that the competition is structured in such a way that it makes it virtually impossible for them to reach a final?
Good for the fans of big teams, good for revenues, bad for competition.
Easy for the fans of our big clubs to be fine with it, but I think we forget how uncompetitive football is becoming for the fans of these reasonably big clubs, who start the season knowing they are unlikely to do anything other than strive for a top half finish.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be honest Winston, I have no problem with the CL being elitist.
Smaller clubs (whether that be on a European level or domestically) have competitions in which they can progress and potentially win. FA Cup and what-ever-the-hell-its-called-now cup domestically and the Europa League.
To me the CL is about seeing the best teams take on the best teams and as a fan, I want to see that. The format supports that so I'm ok with it.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 37 seconds ago
D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
Then you've put your point across poorly, because what you describe has nothing to do with the 'luck of the draw', as you describe.
The only failure is yours. Hope this helps.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nope, you tried to isolate one sentence in a paragraph to distort the point being made. The failure, once again, is yours.
Actually, if I were to consider one change to the CL it would be to stop CL teams parachuting into the Europa League half way through. That doesn't seem fair to me.
D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
Isolated or not, 'the luck of the draw' means one thing and one thing only.
And it certainly has absolutely nothing to do with general apathy towards the competition.
The failure is yours, but of course you can't admit it - just like most people on here.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 13 seconds ago
D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
Isolated or not, 'the luck of the draw' means one thing and one thing only.
And it certainly has absolutely nothing to do with general apathy towards the competition.
The failure is yours, but of course you can't admit it - just like most people on here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No - luck of the draw is one part of the reason towards the apathy towards it. Hence why it was not an isolated point but part of a paragraph highlighting some of the reasons people have become apathetic towards the cup.
comment by The Post Nearly Man and who's army? (U1270)
posted 2 minutes ago
Unseeded all the way, chuck em all together and see what happens.
Otherwise you’d just get Real, Barca, PSG battering cannon fodder till after Christmas, and it’d be just as boring as the group stages are now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I disagree. Some of the higher seeds are rubbish and some the lower seeds are. See Spurs and Roma are strong 3rd and Spartak, Benfica as rubbish top seeds.
You’d still get good ties if it was seeded
you can't admit it - just like most people on here.
====
Ah, the good old "everybody else is wrong"
D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
You're now trying to change the point.
You claimed Arsenal's wins are claimed to be tainted because of the luck of the draw.
Again, that has absolutely nothing to do with whether the cup is taken seriously or not.
By all means keep going - I will keep pointing this out for you.
The decision to make the league champions the only top seeds hasn’t helped either. In no world should the likes of Benfica and Spartak Moscow be top seeds
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 1 minute ago
you can't admit it - just like most people on here.
====
Ah, the good old "everybody else is wrong"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It seems you have trouble reading as well as writing.
I said nothing of the sort.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 second ago
D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
You're now trying to change the point.
You claimed Arsenal's wins are claimed to be tainted because of the luck of the draw.
Again, that has absolutely nothing to do with whether the cup is taken seriously or not.
By all means keep going - I will keep pointing this out for you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course "tainted wins" have something to do with people taking the cup seriously, ffs.
A lot of the discussion on this thread is about seeding and how it gives "rich clubs" an unfair advantage. That is tainting them.
You are ridiculously thick.
D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
But you said they're tainted because of the luck of the draw.
Luck of the draw has nothing to do with whether people are taking it seriously.
Luck of the draw applies to the league cup as much as the Champions League.
Seriously, try engaging your brain.
It's becoming clear this isn't about you admitting your mistakes, it's just you being really rather stupid.
Sign in if you want to comment
CL format
Page 5 of 8
6 | 7 | 8
posted on 7/12/17
Winston.
posted on 7/12/17
I see a call for "Champions only" to be entered. So people want a competition where the teams are:
Real Madrid
Bayern Munich
Chelsea
Juventus
Benfica (beaten 5-0 by Basel - pointless in group)
Monaco - (3-0, 4-1, 5-2 defeats, bottom.)
Spartak Moscow (7-0 to Liverpool)
Shakhtar Donetsk
Anderlecht (5-0, 4-0, 3-0, 3-0 defeats)
Feyenoord (4-0 and a couple of 3-1 defeats)
Besiktas
Basel
Slavia Prague (Beaten by APOEL in play-off)
Viiturol Constanta (beaten by APOEL in play-off)
Rijeka (beaten in play-off)
APOEL (6-0 and 3x 3-0 defeats)
Celtic (7-0, 5-1 and 3-0 defeats)
Maribor (7-0 and a couple of 3-0 defeats)
BATE Borisov (beaten by Slavia, hammered by not good enough for CL Arsenal)
You get the picture.
As for a straight knockout involving more than champions - this seems to rely heavily on the draw throwing up at least one great game a round. Assuming it is everyone in from the start (would have to lose 15 teams somehow) the chances of a big tie aren't great. You are likely to get 32 very one sided games - the talent pool just isn't that great. If you were lucky enough to get 3 or 4 big ties in the first round then the rest of the tournament will be very low in quality.
Wonder how much interest there will be in Barca reserves slapping a Lithuanian team for 20 over 2 legs, while Chelsea's academy play the Czech champions 24 hours after facing the MK Dons in the EFL trophy - and still stick double figures in.
I see the FA Cup brought in as a comparison. A competition I am regularly told is insignificant now. Allegedly every single one of the 3 FA Cups Arsenal have won is tainted due to the "luck of the draw".
Millwall getting to the final in 2004 is one good example of a team getting through to the final due to luck of the draw - rather than merit of beating the best teams.
I see some saying the format favours the "rich". No, it actually favours the "poor" by guaranteeing them big games if they get through the qualifiers.
posted on 7/12/17
see some saying the format favours the "rich". No, it actually favours the "poor" by guaranteeing them big games if they get through the qualifiers.
--
But in having to play qualifiers, rounds of them in the first place doesn't favour them. Compared to rich leagues that have 4 places, 3 automatic in groups.
I'd swap it so that champions go straight in, everyone else played qualifiers.
posted on 7/12/17
"Allegedly every single one of the 3 FA Cups Arsenal have won is tainted due to the "luck of the draw"."
These sorts of comments always make me laugh.
posted on 7/12/17
Why does it make you laugh, Winston? It is very true.
posted on 7/12/17
D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
Is it true?
Sounds to me like a few people have had a dig and you've taken it to heart.
posted on 7/12/17
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 18 seconds ago
D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
Is it true?
Sounds to me like a few people have had a dig and you've taken it to heart.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A "few" . Haven't taken it to heart, I know Arsenal fully deserved the 3 trophies. However it is the general attitude towards the cup.
Look at attendance figures. Way down in the majority of cases compared to league games - unless a big boy is in town. People still talk about the "romance of the cup". The romance of the cup has long been replaced by apathy.
Some people seem left behind in the 70s.
posted on 7/12/17
Summary: Whatever system results in the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer is surely the best. The last thing we want in football is a level playing field. (as long as it's English teams that are the ones benefiting)
posted on 7/12/17
D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
What has that got to do with your claim?
I haven't seen a single person that Arsenal's cup wins are tainted because of the luck of the draw.
Sounds to me like you've heard a few digs from people - much like digs that are made against most teams - and you're making out that poor old Arsenal are the victims of a prejudice.
Diddums.
posted on 7/12/17
I agree that straight knock out would be more exciting but I don’t agree with it being unseeded.
Weed out the weaker teams early on. Would anyway really want to see Apoel vs Maribor or Celtic vs Qarabag and the winner meeting in the 2nd round and then just getting tonked by the next decent team they meet anyway.
posted on 7/12/17
What has it got to do with my point that people see the FA Cup as "insignificant now"? Everything.
I haven't made out Arsenal are the victims of prejudice at all. They were used as an example of the wide spread apathy towards the FA Cup - how the "romance of the FA Cup" has been long lost.
Nice attempt to be patronising at the end as well. Shame you failed with the comment that preceded it though...
posted on 7/12/17
Unseeded all the way, chuck em all together and see what happens.
Otherwise you’d just get Real, Barca, PSG battering cannon fodder till after Christmas, and it’d be just as boring as the group stages are now.
posted on 7/12/17
D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
Then you've put your point across poorly, because what you describe has nothing to do with the 'luck of the draw', as you describe.
The only failure is yours. Hope this helps.
posted on 7/12/17
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 hour, 19 minutes ago
Can Solo (U6997)
Do you think it's fair to fans of clubs such as Palace, Villa, Wigan etc. that the competition is structured in such a way that it makes it virtually impossible for them to reach a final?
Good for the fans of big teams, good for revenues, bad for competition.
Easy for the fans of our big clubs to be fine with it, but I think we forget how uncompetitive football is becoming for the fans of these reasonably big clubs, who start the season knowing they are unlikely to do anything other than strive for a top half finish.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be honest Winston, I have no problem with the CL being elitist.
Smaller clubs (whether that be on a European level or domestically) have competitions in which they can progress and potentially win. FA Cup and what-ever-the-hell-its-called-now cup domestically and the Europa League.
To me the CL is about seeing the best teams take on the best teams and as a fan, I want to see that. The format supports that so I'm ok with it.
posted on 7/12/17
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 37 seconds ago
D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
Then you've put your point across poorly, because what you describe has nothing to do with the 'luck of the draw', as you describe.
The only failure is yours. Hope this helps.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nope, you tried to isolate one sentence in a paragraph to distort the point being made. The failure, once again, is yours.
posted on 7/12/17
Actually, if I were to consider one change to the CL it would be to stop CL teams parachuting into the Europa League half way through. That doesn't seem fair to me.
posted on 7/12/17
D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
Isolated or not, 'the luck of the draw' means one thing and one thing only.
And it certainly has absolutely nothing to do with general apathy towards the competition.
The failure is yours, but of course you can't admit it - just like most people on here.
posted on 7/12/17
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 13 seconds ago
D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
Isolated or not, 'the luck of the draw' means one thing and one thing only.
And it certainly has absolutely nothing to do with general apathy towards the competition.
The failure is yours, but of course you can't admit it - just like most people on here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No - luck of the draw is one part of the reason towards the apathy towards it. Hence why it was not an isolated point but part of a paragraph highlighting some of the reasons people have become apathetic towards the cup.
posted on 7/12/17
comment by The Post Nearly Man and who's army? (U1270)
posted 2 minutes ago
Unseeded all the way, chuck em all together and see what happens.
Otherwise you’d just get Real, Barca, PSG battering cannon fodder till after Christmas, and it’d be just as boring as the group stages are now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I disagree. Some of the higher seeds are rubbish and some the lower seeds are. See Spurs and Roma are strong 3rd and Spartak, Benfica as rubbish top seeds.
You’d still get good ties if it was seeded
posted on 7/12/17
you can't admit it - just like most people on here.
====
Ah, the good old "everybody else is wrong"
posted on 7/12/17
D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
You're now trying to change the point.
You claimed Arsenal's wins are claimed to be tainted because of the luck of the draw.
Again, that has absolutely nothing to do with whether the cup is taken seriously or not.
By all means keep going - I will keep pointing this out for you.
posted on 7/12/17
The decision to make the league champions the only top seeds hasn’t helped either. In no world should the likes of Benfica and Spartak Moscow be top seeds
posted on 7/12/17
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 1 minute ago
you can't admit it - just like most people on here.
====
Ah, the good old "everybody else is wrong"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It seems you have trouble reading as well as writing.
I said nothing of the sort.
posted on 7/12/17
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 second ago
D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
You're now trying to change the point.
You claimed Arsenal's wins are claimed to be tainted because of the luck of the draw.
Again, that has absolutely nothing to do with whether the cup is taken seriously or not.
By all means keep going - I will keep pointing this out for you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course "tainted wins" have something to do with people taking the cup seriously, ffs.
A lot of the discussion on this thread is about seeding and how it gives "rich clubs" an unfair advantage. That is tainting them.
You are ridiculously thick.
posted on 7/12/17
D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
But you said they're tainted because of the luck of the draw.
Luck of the draw has nothing to do with whether people are taking it seriously.
Luck of the draw applies to the league cup as much as the Champions League.
Seriously, try engaging your brain.
It's becoming clear this isn't about you admitting your mistakes, it's just you being really rather stupid.
Page 5 of 8
6 | 7 | 8