comment by Mr Chelsea. (U3579)
posted 5 minutes ago
Managers don't reinvent themselves late on in their career. Fergie managed to do it but in his latter years I think he was not as hands on with the tactical side as he was the managerial side. That's why he possibly survived. All the other older managers get found out in the end and then drift off into International management.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Where did you pull this law of management out of? And why is it unthinkable that Mourinho might, like Fergie, bring in expertise and fresh ideas?
Right now I'm more Mourinho-sceptic than Mourinho-optimistic but on these forums you do see a lot of categorical pronouncements of the 'ever shall it be so' type, based on little more than fleeting impressions of the recent past.
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 59 seconds ago
comment by Eric_the_king (SE85) (U21241)
posted 1 minute ago
Jose has won 2 trophies in 2 years at Utd. Klopp and Poch haven't won anything in 6-7 years between them at their current clubs.
Conclusion = Jose finished
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i for one have not said he's finished, but proof is in the pudding that he's turnover of winning, and in style, is on a downward trajectory(nearly impossible to not have to after his run in 00s). Is this the longest he's gone without a league title?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There you go then. Almost impossible to keep that up, especially given the state of the PL right now with one club being backed by an entire country.
I don't like his style or football personally but I don't think he's changed that much as a coach. The competition has just got more fierce. Without the UAE's involvement in City he'd have had a few more titles too including last season. That's the hard truths people don't like.
comment by Kav H (U19426)
posted 1 minute ago
League aside, domestic trophies are very much a lottery these days. Let's be honest, Jose is a negative, boring, unlikeable man and now quite an outdated manager. I feel a lot of United fans feel this way as well. Yes his teams are likely to grind you out a result in a big game but he has stifled so much attacking flair out of that United side.
Would the majority of United fans swap Jose for Poch? I bet they would.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Obviously there is some level of luck in cup competitions. But arsenal won 3 FA cups in a row so it's not that much of a lottery.
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Eric_the_king (SE85) (U21241)
posted 1 minute ago
Jose has won 2 trophies in 2 years at Utd. Klopp and Poch haven't won anything in 6-7 years between them at their current clubs.
Conclusion = Jose finished
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i for one have not said he's finished, but proof is in the pudding that he's turnover of winning, and in style, is on a downward trajectory(nearly impossible to not have to after his run in 00s). Is this the longest he's gone without a league title?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's a ridiculously small data set though, with a bunch of variables (the challenges being very different at each of the clubs he has worked for).
It's like saying 'I got laid three times last week but not at all this week - I'm losing my edge!' while ignoring the fact that you were on a lads holiday in Crete last week and have been working nights since you got back.
I think people nowadays can put too much emphasis on the manager at times. Ultimately, it’s about which players perform, which isn’t solely down to just the coach. It’s not a case of x manager won a trophy so is better, it’s never as simple as that.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Eric_the_king (SE85) (U21241)
posted 1 minute ago
Jose has won 2 trophies in 2 years at Utd. Klopp and Poch haven't won anything in 6-7 years between them at their current clubs.
Conclusion = Jose finished
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i for one have not said he's finished, but proof is in the pudding that he's turnover of winning, and in style, is on a downward trajectory(nearly impossible to not have to after his run in 00s). Is this the longest he's gone without a league title?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's a ridiculously small data set though, with a bunch of variables (the challenges being very different at each of the clubs he has worked for).
It's like saying 'I got laid three times last week but not at all this week - I'm losing my edge!' while ignoring the fact that you were on a lads holiday in Crete last week and have been working nights since you got back.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
IMO he won titles and CL's in harder situations. Especially if you consider getting knocked out by sevilla compared to winning it with Porto. Like I said he's not finished, but will need to adapt, and god knows how he's going to topple man city atm.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 14 minutes ago
As for 'is Mourinho the better manager / is he past it?', I reckon it's more accurate to think in terms of whether managers are a good fit in contexts, i.e. at a particular club at a particular time. There isn't a magic that great managers have but eventually use up. It's just that the qualities and insights a manager has work better in some situations than others. The innovations that Mourinho introduced were successful in the mid-2000s but the game has evolved and assimilated a lot of his ideas. However, the game will continue to evolve and he'll continue to study new ideas and tactics and it's hardly unthinkable that a Mourinho 2.0 will be effective again in the football of the late 2010s and early 2020s. Some people assume he can't evolve with the game but that's conjecture.
Guardiola's tiki taka style brought diminishing returns. He has had to evolve, and his City side are quite different to his Barcelona.
Some coaches can't evolve. Some do it with a certain amount of effort and get there eventually. Some have a knack of doing it seamlessly. I think it remains to be seen how well Mourinho can adapt.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a very good post, completely agree with it.
I must start by saying he is a top class manager, no doubt. But, Mourinhos successful premier league years when at Chelsea were largely in a much easier period. They were the only team throwing the money around like there was no tomorrow. Had current city been around too then his record would look much poorer.
I would argue he was expected to win the PL as much as he did given his circumstances. If Emery or Posh or Klopp don't win the PL in the next 5 years are they failures? Not at all in my eyes. City are so strong and then the buying power of Chelsea (less so now?) and United mean that they could always just run away with it.
He's probably not going to topple City, no. They aren't really a normal club though are they? Like that is a stick to beat someone with. Their success has been handed to them on a silver platter. Very difficult to compete against them really.
Sky pretty much summed it up last year showing the squads.
City had 13 players valued over £35m. Liverpool n Utd next best with just 6 players. The gap is huge and so it proved.
As a die hard and local red I don't like city obviously and hate seeing them win titles. However it does give me a crumb of relief knowing how they have gone about it. It's not been anything spectacular. It's been not far short of inevitability. The day the scousers win their next one will hurt far far far more.
I think it is fair to suggest he is on a downward spiral. At his peak what separated him from the rest of the league was his tactical innovation.
With time though people learnt his tricks and have diluted his edge.
comment by KingKenny (U1961)
posted 1 minute ago
I must start by saying he is a top class manager, no doubt. But, Mourinhos successful premier league years when at Chelsea were largely in a much easier period. They were the only team throwing the money around like there was no tomorrow. Had current city been around too then his record would look much poorer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah all he had to do was topple a team that didn't lose a single game in the PL the year before some people don't half talk nonsense.
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 16 seconds ago
comment by KingKenny (U1961)
posted 1 minute ago
I must start by saying he is a top class manager, no doubt. But, Mourinhos successful premier league years when at Chelsea were largely in a much easier period. They were the only team throwing the money around like there was no tomorrow. Had current city been around too then his record would look much poorer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah all he had to do was topple a team that didn't lose a single game in the PL the year beforesome people don't half talk nonsense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
KK does make a good point. Nowadays the teams outside the top 6 are a lot stronger and competitive.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Mr Chelsea. (U3579)
posted 5 minutes ago
Managers don't reinvent themselves late on in their career. Fergie managed to do it but in his latter years I think he was not as hands on with the tactical side as he was the managerial side. That's why he possibly survived. All the other older managers get found out in the end and then drift off into International management.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Where did you pull this law of management out of? And why is it unthinkable that Mourinho might, like Fergie, bring in expertise and fresh ideas?
Right now I'm more Mourinho-sceptic than Mourinho-optimistic but on these forums you do see a lot of categorical pronouncements of the 'ever shall it be so' type, based on little more than fleeting impressions of the recent past.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Based on Jose's character and his ideals about the game, he doesn't seem like a manager that would abandon his principles that easily. That would admitting defeat for him.
comment by dangerdog (U20986)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 16 seconds ago
comment by KingKenny (U1961)
posted 1 minute ago
I must start by saying he is a top class manager, no doubt. But, Mourinhos successful premier league years when at Chelsea were largely in a much easier period. They were the only team throwing the money around like there was no tomorrow. Had current city been around too then his record would look much poorer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah all he had to do was topple a team that didn't lose a single game in the PL the year beforesome people don't half talk nonsense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
KK does make a good point. Nowadays the teams outside the top 6 are a lot stronger and competitive.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Still think what he done with Porto and Inter trumps anything he's done the last 10 years.
AS for the teams outisde the top 6 i'm not so sure. The gap this year was ridiculous between 4th and Burnley. Compare that to 3 points between 4th and 6th in 04/05
comment by Mr Chelsea. (U3579)
posted 2 seconds ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Mr Chelsea. (U3579)
posted 5 minutes ago
Managers don't reinvent themselves late on in their career. Fergie managed to do it but in his latter years I think he was not as hands on with the tactical side as he was the managerial side. That's why he possibly survived. All the other older managers get found out in the end and then drift off into International management.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Where did you pull this law of management out of? And why is it unthinkable that Mourinho might, like Fergie, bring in expertise and fresh ideas?
Right now I'm more Mourinho-sceptic than Mourinho-optimistic but on these forums you do see a lot of categorical pronouncements of the 'ever shall it be so' type, based on little more than fleeting impressions of the recent past.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Based on Jose's character and his ideals about the game, he doesn't seem like a manager that would abandon his principles that easily. That would admitting defeat for him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 56 seconds ago
comment by KingKenny (U1961)
posted 1 minute ago
I must start by saying he is a top class manager, no doubt. But, Mourinhos successful premier league years when at Chelsea were largely in a much easier period. They were the only team throwing the money around like there was no tomorrow. Had current city been around too then his record would look much poorer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah all he had to do was topple a team that didn't lose a single game in the PL the year beforesome people don't half talk nonsense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That team lost games the next season though didn't they? And they only had 90 points which is a fairly usual league winning tally. This included 2 wins over Chelsea so if mourinho beat them twice instead that is a 12 point swing before you start. Hardly like overturning city this year. A much easier period imo. Liverpool spurs both stronger than they were then as well.
Maureen causes discord at the clubs he runs now. Hes yesterdays manager in terms of football style but his negative attitude always runs against his current clubs.
Yeab he still gets results....but the big trophies, CL and title i cant see him ever getting those again. Whs he going to win them with?
Utd? No chance imo
Where else is he going to go??
As i said yesterdays manager.
comment by Mr Chelsea. (U3579)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Mr Chelsea. (U3579)
posted 5 minutes ago
Managers don't reinvent themselves late on in their career. Fergie managed to do it but in his latter years I think he was not as hands on with the tactical side as he was the managerial side. That's why he possibly survived. All the other older managers get found out in the end and then drift off into International management.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Where did you pull this law of management out of? And why is it unthinkable that Mourinho might, like Fergie, bring in expertise and fresh ideas?
Right now I'm more Mourinho-sceptic than Mourinho-optimistic but on these forums you do see a lot of categorical pronouncements of the 'ever shall it be so' type, based on little more than fleeting impressions of the recent past.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Based on Jose's character and his ideals about the game, he doesn't seem like a manager that would abandon his principles that easily. That would admitting defeat for him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Isn't he the ultimate pragmatist? He's not like Cruyff who believed there was a right way to win and who saw losing the right way as superior to winning the wrong way. United last season variously defended deep and counter-attacked, pressed aggressively high up the pitch, and played with high levels of possession. It's a caricature that Mourinho has a single method. I didn't think anyone had ever thought of him as an idealist.
Got Bitter
But for Sheikh Mansoor he'd have won the title last year you Muppet.
It's not a question of Jose losing it (he's always been pragmatic and miserable) he's just facing unreal competition right now.
In Madrid he came up against arguably the best Barca team of all time and now he's up against UAE bitters who arent exactly are a normal club are they?
"So, the other day I got into it with Wahl a little bit"
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Eric_the_king (SE85) (U21241)
posted 1 minute ago
Jose has won 2 trophies in 2 years at Utd. Klopp and Poch haven't won anything in 6-7 years between them at their current clubs.
Conclusion = Jose finished
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i for one have not said he's finished, but proof is in the pudding that he's turnover of winning, and in style, is on a downward trajectory(nearly impossible to not have to after his run in 00s). Is this the longest he's gone without a league title?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's a ridiculously small data set though, with a bunch of variables (the challenges being very different at each of the clubs he has worked for).
It's like saying 'I got laid three times last week but not at all this week - I'm losing my edge!' while ignoring the fact that you were on a lads holiday in Crete last week and have been working nights since you got back.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
IMO he won titles and CL's in harder situations. Especially if you consider getting knocked out by sevilla compared to winning it with Porto. Like I said he's not finished, but will need to adapt, and god knows how he's going to topple man city atm.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There's a lot of randomness in winning the CL. At Porto he had an unusually easy draw (how often would you expect to play Monaco in the final?) and would have been eliminated against a less than vintage United but for Scholes' goal being incorrectly flagged offside. The Inter victory was very impressive but their key win over Barcelona could easily have gone either way and was helped by the disruption of flights.
comment by Eric_the_king (SE85) (U21241)
posted 1 minute ago
Got Bitter
But for Sheikh Mansoor he'd have won the title last year you Muppet.
It's not a question of Jose losing it (he's always been pragmatic and miserable) he's just facing unreal competition right now.
In Madrid he came up against arguably the best Barca team of all time and now he's up against UAE bitters who arent exactly are a normal club are they?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you accept that his main success also came at q club that aren't exactly normal too? Because I'd argue Chelseas spending at the time was more unusual than City's now as everyone else has copied to some extent.
Mourinho still has a league title, the europa league and some other cup. Emery probably has the same in the time that Mou has returned to England...so Jose on his downward curve is still = Emery as his best to date, who himself can be seen as stagnating considering he was with PSG in the french league.
comment by Michael Edwards FC {Proud owner of the 5 000 000th comment} (U2720)
posted 1 minute ago
Mourinho still has a league title, the europa league and some other cup. Emery probably has the same in the time that Mou has returned to England...so Jose on his downward curve is still = Emery as his best to date, who himself can be seen as stagnating considering he was with PSG in the french league.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for sticking to the topic and mentioning Emery too
Essentially agree - would rather have a manager on an upward curve than a downward one.
Sign in if you want to comment
Mourinho or Emery?
Page 2 of 7
6 | 7
posted on 27/7/18
comment by Mr Chelsea. (U3579)
posted 5 minutes ago
Managers don't reinvent themselves late on in their career. Fergie managed to do it but in his latter years I think he was not as hands on with the tactical side as he was the managerial side. That's why he possibly survived. All the other older managers get found out in the end and then drift off into International management.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Where did you pull this law of management out of? And why is it unthinkable that Mourinho might, like Fergie, bring in expertise and fresh ideas?
Right now I'm more Mourinho-sceptic than Mourinho-optimistic but on these forums you do see a lot of categorical pronouncements of the 'ever shall it be so' type, based on little more than fleeting impressions of the recent past.
posted on 27/7/18
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 59 seconds ago
comment by Eric_the_king (SE85) (U21241)
posted 1 minute ago
Jose has won 2 trophies in 2 years at Utd. Klopp and Poch haven't won anything in 6-7 years between them at their current clubs.
Conclusion = Jose finished
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i for one have not said he's finished, but proof is in the pudding that he's turnover of winning, and in style, is on a downward trajectory(nearly impossible to not have to after his run in 00s). Is this the longest he's gone without a league title?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There you go then. Almost impossible to keep that up, especially given the state of the PL right now with one club being backed by an entire country.
I don't like his style or football personally but I don't think he's changed that much as a coach. The competition has just got more fierce. Without the UAE's involvement in City he'd have had a few more titles too including last season. That's the hard truths people don't like.
posted on 27/7/18
comment by Kav H (U19426)
posted 1 minute ago
League aside, domestic trophies are very much a lottery these days. Let's be honest, Jose is a negative, boring, unlikeable man and now quite an outdated manager. I feel a lot of United fans feel this way as well. Yes his teams are likely to grind you out a result in a big game but he has stifled so much attacking flair out of that United side.
Would the majority of United fans swap Jose for Poch? I bet they would.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Obviously there is some level of luck in cup competitions. But arsenal won 3 FA cups in a row so it's not that much of a lottery.
posted on 27/7/18
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Eric_the_king (SE85) (U21241)
posted 1 minute ago
Jose has won 2 trophies in 2 years at Utd. Klopp and Poch haven't won anything in 6-7 years between them at their current clubs.
Conclusion = Jose finished
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i for one have not said he's finished, but proof is in the pudding that he's turnover of winning, and in style, is on a downward trajectory(nearly impossible to not have to after his run in 00s). Is this the longest he's gone without a league title?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's a ridiculously small data set though, with a bunch of variables (the challenges being very different at each of the clubs he has worked for).
It's like saying 'I got laid three times last week but not at all this week - I'm losing my edge!' while ignoring the fact that you were on a lads holiday in Crete last week and have been working nights since you got back.
posted on 27/7/18
I think people nowadays can put too much emphasis on the manager at times. Ultimately, it’s about which players perform, which isn’t solely down to just the coach. It’s not a case of x manager won a trophy so is better, it’s never as simple as that.
posted on 27/7/18
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Eric_the_king (SE85) (U21241)
posted 1 minute ago
Jose has won 2 trophies in 2 years at Utd. Klopp and Poch haven't won anything in 6-7 years between them at their current clubs.
Conclusion = Jose finished
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i for one have not said he's finished, but proof is in the pudding that he's turnover of winning, and in style, is on a downward trajectory(nearly impossible to not have to after his run in 00s). Is this the longest he's gone without a league title?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's a ridiculously small data set though, with a bunch of variables (the challenges being very different at each of the clubs he has worked for).
It's like saying 'I got laid three times last week but not at all this week - I'm losing my edge!' while ignoring the fact that you were on a lads holiday in Crete last week and have been working nights since you got back.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
IMO he won titles and CL's in harder situations. Especially if you consider getting knocked out by sevilla compared to winning it with Porto. Like I said he's not finished, but will need to adapt, and god knows how he's going to topple man city atm.
posted on 27/7/18
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 14 minutes ago
As for 'is Mourinho the better manager / is he past it?', I reckon it's more accurate to think in terms of whether managers are a good fit in contexts, i.e. at a particular club at a particular time. There isn't a magic that great managers have but eventually use up. It's just that the qualities and insights a manager has work better in some situations than others. The innovations that Mourinho introduced were successful in the mid-2000s but the game has evolved and assimilated a lot of his ideas. However, the game will continue to evolve and he'll continue to study new ideas and tactics and it's hardly unthinkable that a Mourinho 2.0 will be effective again in the football of the late 2010s and early 2020s. Some people assume he can't evolve with the game but that's conjecture.
Guardiola's tiki taka style brought diminishing returns. He has had to evolve, and his City side are quite different to his Barcelona.
Some coaches can't evolve. Some do it with a certain amount of effort and get there eventually. Some have a knack of doing it seamlessly. I think it remains to be seen how well Mourinho can adapt.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a very good post, completely agree with it.
posted on 27/7/18
I must start by saying he is a top class manager, no doubt. But, Mourinhos successful premier league years when at Chelsea were largely in a much easier period. They were the only team throwing the money around like there was no tomorrow. Had current city been around too then his record would look much poorer.
I would argue he was expected to win the PL as much as he did given his circumstances. If Emery or Posh or Klopp don't win the PL in the next 5 years are they failures? Not at all in my eyes. City are so strong and then the buying power of Chelsea (less so now?) and United mean that they could always just run away with it.
posted on 27/7/18
He's probably not going to topple City, no. They aren't really a normal club though are they? Like that is a stick to beat someone with. Their success has been handed to them on a silver platter. Very difficult to compete against them really.
Sky pretty much summed it up last year showing the squads.
City had 13 players valued over £35m. Liverpool n Utd next best with just 6 players. The gap is huge and so it proved.
As a die hard and local red I don't like city obviously and hate seeing them win titles. However it does give me a crumb of relief knowing how they have gone about it. It's not been anything spectacular. It's been not far short of inevitability. The day the scousers win their next one will hurt far far far more.
posted on 27/7/18
I think it is fair to suggest he is on a downward spiral. At his peak what separated him from the rest of the league was his tactical innovation.
With time though people learnt his tricks and have diluted his edge.
posted on 27/7/18
comment by KingKenny (U1961)
posted 1 minute ago
I must start by saying he is a top class manager, no doubt. But, Mourinhos successful premier league years when at Chelsea were largely in a much easier period. They were the only team throwing the money around like there was no tomorrow. Had current city been around too then his record would look much poorer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah all he had to do was topple a team that didn't lose a single game in the PL the year before some people don't half talk nonsense.
posted on 27/7/18
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 16 seconds ago
comment by KingKenny (U1961)
posted 1 minute ago
I must start by saying he is a top class manager, no doubt. But, Mourinhos successful premier league years when at Chelsea were largely in a much easier period. They were the only team throwing the money around like there was no tomorrow. Had current city been around too then his record would look much poorer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah all he had to do was topple a team that didn't lose a single game in the PL the year beforesome people don't half talk nonsense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
KK does make a good point. Nowadays the teams outside the top 6 are a lot stronger and competitive.
posted on 27/7/18
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 27/7/18
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Mr Chelsea. (U3579)
posted 5 minutes ago
Managers don't reinvent themselves late on in their career. Fergie managed to do it but in his latter years I think he was not as hands on with the tactical side as he was the managerial side. That's why he possibly survived. All the other older managers get found out in the end and then drift off into International management.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Where did you pull this law of management out of? And why is it unthinkable that Mourinho might, like Fergie, bring in expertise and fresh ideas?
Right now I'm more Mourinho-sceptic than Mourinho-optimistic but on these forums you do see a lot of categorical pronouncements of the 'ever shall it be so' type, based on little more than fleeting impressions of the recent past.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Based on Jose's character and his ideals about the game, he doesn't seem like a manager that would abandon his principles that easily. That would admitting defeat for him.
posted on 27/7/18
comment by dangerdog (U20986)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 16 seconds ago
comment by KingKenny (U1961)
posted 1 minute ago
I must start by saying he is a top class manager, no doubt. But, Mourinhos successful premier league years when at Chelsea were largely in a much easier period. They were the only team throwing the money around like there was no tomorrow. Had current city been around too then his record would look much poorer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah all he had to do was topple a team that didn't lose a single game in the PL the year beforesome people don't half talk nonsense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
KK does make a good point. Nowadays the teams outside the top 6 are a lot stronger and competitive.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Still think what he done with Porto and Inter trumps anything he's done the last 10 years.
AS for the teams outisde the top 6 i'm not so sure. The gap this year was ridiculous between 4th and Burnley. Compare that to 3 points between 4th and 6th in 04/05
posted on 27/7/18
comment by Mr Chelsea. (U3579)
posted 2 seconds ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Mr Chelsea. (U3579)
posted 5 minutes ago
Managers don't reinvent themselves late on in their career. Fergie managed to do it but in his latter years I think he was not as hands on with the tactical side as he was the managerial side. That's why he possibly survived. All the other older managers get found out in the end and then drift off into International management.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Where did you pull this law of management out of? And why is it unthinkable that Mourinho might, like Fergie, bring in expertise and fresh ideas?
Right now I'm more Mourinho-sceptic than Mourinho-optimistic but on these forums you do see a lot of categorical pronouncements of the 'ever shall it be so' type, based on little more than fleeting impressions of the recent past.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Based on Jose's character and his ideals about the game, he doesn't seem like a manager that would abandon his principles that easily. That would admitting defeat for him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This
posted on 27/7/18
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 56 seconds ago
comment by KingKenny (U1961)
posted 1 minute ago
I must start by saying he is a top class manager, no doubt. But, Mourinhos successful premier league years when at Chelsea were largely in a much easier period. They were the only team throwing the money around like there was no tomorrow. Had current city been around too then his record would look much poorer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah all he had to do was topple a team that didn't lose a single game in the PL the year beforesome people don't half talk nonsense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That team lost games the next season though didn't they? And they only had 90 points which is a fairly usual league winning tally. This included 2 wins over Chelsea so if mourinho beat them twice instead that is a 12 point swing before you start. Hardly like overturning city this year. A much easier period imo. Liverpool spurs both stronger than they were then as well.
posted on 27/7/18
Maureen causes discord at the clubs he runs now. Hes yesterdays manager in terms of football style but his negative attitude always runs against his current clubs.
Yeab he still gets results....but the big trophies, CL and title i cant see him ever getting those again. Whs he going to win them with?
Utd? No chance imo
Where else is he going to go??
As i said yesterdays manager.
posted on 27/7/18
comment by Mr Chelsea. (U3579)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Mr Chelsea. (U3579)
posted 5 minutes ago
Managers don't reinvent themselves late on in their career. Fergie managed to do it but in his latter years I think he was not as hands on with the tactical side as he was the managerial side. That's why he possibly survived. All the other older managers get found out in the end and then drift off into International management.
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Where did you pull this law of management out of? And why is it unthinkable that Mourinho might, like Fergie, bring in expertise and fresh ideas?
Right now I'm more Mourinho-sceptic than Mourinho-optimistic but on these forums you do see a lot of categorical pronouncements of the 'ever shall it be so' type, based on little more than fleeting impressions of the recent past.
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Based on Jose's character and his ideals about the game, he doesn't seem like a manager that would abandon his principles that easily. That would admitting defeat for him.
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Isn't he the ultimate pragmatist? He's not like Cruyff who believed there was a right way to win and who saw losing the right way as superior to winning the wrong way. United last season variously defended deep and counter-attacked, pressed aggressively high up the pitch, and played with high levels of possession. It's a caricature that Mourinho has a single method. I didn't think anyone had ever thought of him as an idealist.
posted on 27/7/18
Got Bitter
But for Sheikh Mansoor he'd have won the title last year you Muppet.
It's not a question of Jose losing it (he's always been pragmatic and miserable) he's just facing unreal competition right now.
In Madrid he came up against arguably the best Barca team of all time and now he's up against UAE bitters who arent exactly are a normal club are they?
posted on 27/7/18
"So, the other day I got into it with Wahl a little bit"
posted on 27/7/18
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Eric_the_king (SE85) (U21241)
posted 1 minute ago
Jose has won 2 trophies in 2 years at Utd. Klopp and Poch haven't won anything in 6-7 years between them at their current clubs.
Conclusion = Jose finished
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i for one have not said he's finished, but proof is in the pudding that he's turnover of winning, and in style, is on a downward trajectory(nearly impossible to not have to after his run in 00s). Is this the longest he's gone without a league title?
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That's a ridiculously small data set though, with a bunch of variables (the challenges being very different at each of the clubs he has worked for).
It's like saying 'I got laid three times last week but not at all this week - I'm losing my edge!' while ignoring the fact that you were on a lads holiday in Crete last week and have been working nights since you got back.
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IMO he won titles and CL's in harder situations. Especially if you consider getting knocked out by sevilla compared to winning it with Porto. Like I said he's not finished, but will need to adapt, and god knows how he's going to topple man city atm.
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There's a lot of randomness in winning the CL. At Porto he had an unusually easy draw (how often would you expect to play Monaco in the final?) and would have been eliminated against a less than vintage United but for Scholes' goal being incorrectly flagged offside. The Inter victory was very impressive but their key win over Barcelona could easily have gone either way and was helped by the disruption of flights.
posted on 27/7/18
comment by Eric_the_king (SE85) (U21241)
posted 1 minute ago
Got Bitter
But for Sheikh Mansoor he'd have won the title last year you Muppet.
It's not a question of Jose losing it (he's always been pragmatic and miserable) he's just facing unreal competition right now.
In Madrid he came up against arguably the best Barca team of all time and now he's up against UAE bitters who arent exactly are a normal club are they?
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Do you accept that his main success also came at q club that aren't exactly normal too? Because I'd argue Chelseas spending at the time was more unusual than City's now as everyone else has copied to some extent.
posted on 27/7/18
Mourinho still has a league title, the europa league and some other cup. Emery probably has the same in the time that Mou has returned to England...so Jose on his downward curve is still = Emery as his best to date, who himself can be seen as stagnating considering he was with PSG in the french league.
posted on 27/7/18
comment by Michael Edwards FC {Proud owner of the 5 000 000th comment} (U2720)
posted 1 minute ago
Mourinho still has a league title, the europa league and some other cup. Emery probably has the same in the time that Mou has returned to England...so Jose on his downward curve is still = Emery as his best to date, who himself can be seen as stagnating considering he was with PSG in the french league.
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Thanks for sticking to the topic and mentioning Emery too
Essentially agree - would rather have a manager on an upward curve than a downward one.
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