posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
I’m the same with head and heart
How can we sack a manager that’s delivered the biggest trophy in my lifetime (don’t care if it was a easy route)
However we have been awful for a long time with and without injuries so head says he needs sacking
Maybe he is learning still and last season was a lesson so the first 10 games of next season seems a fair assessment time to see if that’s the case ….its his first job in a big competitive league
I would hate to be levy with this decision …..losing the final made it simple
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
Said it elsewhere- give him the first 10-12 games of next season, see if things have changed. If not, or say we lose the 1st 4-5 games then get rid
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
I mean the reality is you can sack a manager any time, so maybe he will be given 5-10 league games to see how it goes, although I’d prefer whoever it is to be in for the season as changing a manager mid season brings it’s own issues.
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
If the form continues into the first 5 games of the season he will be fired no doubt.
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
comment by The Mighty Tottenham Hotspur. (U7858)
posted 19 minutes ago
Said it elsewhere- give him the first 10-12 games of next season, see if things have changed. If not, or say we lose the 1st 4-5 games then get rid
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I honestly think this is the worst option. If we're changing managers, get it done now - give them input into our transfer dealings and a full pre season to shape the team their way. If not, back Ange 100% and stick with him next season through thick and thin. Half measures will give us the worst of both worlds, look what happened with Utd and Ten Hag.
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
Dunno who Jonathan Wilson is but he clearly isn't that bright and clearly being a bit of a wum.
I have nonproblem if fans want Ange out, it is for me a 50/50 thing so to criticise anyone for falling this way or that way on the question of keeping him would be wrong.
But what i do find unreasonable is the selective factors that feed into people's decision making.
Aside from anything else, what that final proved was that Ange could organise a defensive win, that he could motivate such a controlled performance in Spurs biggest game in years and that the players are really galvanised, not divided, not lost the dressing but the opposite. I don't think we really knew these things before the final.
As for the poor quality of the game, serial winner Jose has made a career out of ugly wins, same for Simione at A.Madrid...no one cares about how, it's if you win. The fact we won is all that matters, we made it an ugly game, we had to as we had not fit creative players. We battled and the tactics were spot on. These are all unspursy things.
Plus it wasn't just the final. The whole cup runs on the ko stages was superbly managed, controlled, no dramas. Everyone fawned over utds 7-6 agg comeback win but it just showed a chaotic mess of a team relying on a CB up front.
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
comment by PhilspursFGR (U3278)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by The Mighty Tottenham Hotspur. (U7858)
posted 19 minutes ago
Said it elsewhere- give him the first 10-12 games of next season, see if things have changed. If not, or say we lose the 1st 4-5 games then get rid
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I honestly think this is the worst option. If we're changing managers, get it done now - give them input into our transfer dealings and a full pre season to shape the team their way. If not, back Ange 100% and stick with him next season through thick and thin. Half measures will give us the worst of both worlds, look what happened with Utd and Ten Hag.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Talking sense on this subject is like blowing in the wind.
Anyone who is Ange ii, is only so for emotional reasons. You cannot argue logic with an emotional decision.
That is not meant as a dig at the Ange inners, but they are making there choices on different parameters.
Plus the ones who only do it to wind people up.
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
Yeah, there is a major drawback in waiting both in a sporting and financial sense because so much of what we do in the summer will surely see players signed in Ange's image. That said, I think what we'll see in the summer is a series of club signings - Dibling, Sane, Wharton - the types the club will be defined as workable for any manager incoming. What we can't do is blindly back Ange with the players he wants - unless of course there's room for a swap deal between Romero and his long term favourite Gallagher at Atletico. Personally I don't think he's the type of midfielder we need. Ideally we'll be looking for a dictator someone who can play that double pivot role and ultimately give us control in matches - that's why I'd break the bank for Wharton.
The other hesitancy in sacking Ange is who would likely be coming in to replace him. If the reports about Inzaghi are true, that's a major step backwards in my opinion. He's obviously a talented manager but it's so far removed from where we are now that we'd have to butcher the squad once again to ensure he has the players to play his preferred 3-5-2 system. I'm sick and tired of routinely picking managers that feel so different from each other. The reason Brighton have had so much success of late is because they've got an identity that then dictates the profile of manager and player they then bring in. Ange to Inzaghi is as stupid as Pochettino to Jose. Inzaghi isn't as defensive but the system is totally different. There's no point in sacking Ange if we go that route. This is what worries me about Paratici's return. He might have an eye for a player but his managerial acumen is woeful.
No more glamour appointments please. You can't go from Inter Milan to Spurs and expect the manager to work the same miracles. It doesn't work that way. It's the equivalent of being happily married and then getting seduced by a hot stripper into having an affair. It's just plain stupid.
I have no faith in Levy making the right decision here. Let's just stick with Ange for one more go and see how things go. I'm sick of flip-flopping.
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 10 minutes ago
Dunno who Jonathan Wilson is but he clearly isn't that bright and clearly being a bit of a wum.
I have nonproblem if fans want Ange out, it is for me a 50/50 thing so to criticise anyone for falling this way or that way on the question of keeping him would be wrong.
But what i do find unreasonable is the selective factors that feed into people's decision making.
Aside from anything else, what that final proved was that Ange could organise a defensive win, that he could motivate such a controlled performance in Spurs biggest game in years and that the players are really galvanised, not divided, not lost the dressing but the opposite. I don't think we really knew these things before the final.
As for the poor quality of the game, serial winner Jose has made a career out of ugly wins, same for Simione at A.Madrid...no one cares about how, it's if you win. The fact we won is all that matters, we made it an ugly game, we had to as we had not fit creative players. We battled and the tactics were spot on. These are all unspursy things.
Plus it wasn't just the final. The whole cup runs on the ko stages was superbly managed, controlled, no dramas. Everyone fawned over utds 7-6 agg comeback win but it just showed a chaotic mess of a team relying on a CB up front.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think he is. What he's saying is logical. If you were Ange out before, nothing in that final could convince you to suddenly be Ange in, other than the emotion of the win itself. Also, even if we'd played brilliantly and played them off the park, 90 minutes still wouldn't be a logical basis to decide someone's fate. The 38 league games, some 3420 minutes, are a far wider and more accurate measure where we are as a club.
Ange himself said that knockout football is different and that's why he played that way so I don't think there's any suggestion he'll want to introduce it in the league next year. Also, many managers have found a way to fuse two styles together. You can be robust with flair yet it seems to me that Ange's approach is either gung-ho or park the bus, never a mixture of the two.
I'm not Ange out, because, like many others, emotion has clearly affected my thinking but were i thinking rationally, I'm not sure I'd be quite as indecisive on this one. The likelihood is that we'll go into next season just as inconsistent as the last, just like Ten Hag. He's going to have to start next season as he did his first, otherwise it's going to get toxic very, very quickly.
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
Our record since November 2023 has been unforgivable. Not just since January when he apparently chucked in the league.
But he did win a trophy.
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
I was Ange in out before and I'm Ange in out now. The cup if you want to analyse it, was as much a happy accident and an anomaly, as it was Ange using his tactical nous to win it. The situation was in place for us to do well.
Overall though the season was poorly managed, so why should a few games in a cup against weakish opposition, be a better gauge to judge Ange on than the 30+ games in which we were rubbish?
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 8 seconds ago
I was Ange in out before and I'm Ange in out now. The cup if you want to analyse it, was as much a happy accident and an anomaly, as it was Ange using his tactical nous to win it. The situation was in place for us to do well.
Overall though the season was poorly managed, so why should a few games in a cup against weakish opposition, be a better gauge to judge Ange on than the 30+ games in which we were rubbish?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think you can put down the cup win as an anomaly. We shocked Frankfurt, Bodo and United with our more passive approach and that was down to Ange. If you apply the logic of that famous Chelsea game where we played 'our' way regardless of being down to 9 men, Ange has unquestionably moved the needle since then. With the injuries we had in the final, I'm convinced that we'd have lost that game had we opened up and Ange deserves a lot of credit for choosing to go against his principles in order to win.
We can't cherry pick successes and put them down luck. I don't think we need to. The league form has been so catastrophic that it has Ange bang to rights anyway. We don't need to spin anything.
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 2 hours, 23 minutes ago
I mean the reality is you can sack a manager any time, so maybe he will be given 5-10 league games to see how it goes, although I’d prefer whoever it is to be in for the season as changing a manager mid season brings it’s own issues.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought you said Ange was a goner last season
He is not hero material....No other manager in the PL ever won anything close to Ange won in the league
<mic drop>
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 8 seconds ago
I was Ange in out before and I'm Ange in out now. The cup if you want to analyse it, was as much a happy accident and an anomaly, as it was Ange using his tactical nous to win it. The situation was in place for us to do well.
Overall though the season was poorly managed, so why should a few games in a cup against weakish opposition, be a better gauge to judge Ange on than the 30+ games in which we were rubbish?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think you can put down the cup win as an anomaly. We shocked Frankfurt, Bodo and United with our more passive approach and that was down to Ange. If you apply the logic of that famous Chelsea game where we played 'our' way regardless of being down to 9 men, Ange has unquestionably moved the needle since then. With the injuries we had in the final, I'm convinced that we'd have lost that game had we opened up and Ange deserves a lot of credit for choosing to go against his principles in order to win.
We can't cherry pick successes and put them down luck. I don't think we need to. The league form has been so catastrophic that it has Ange bang to rights anyway. We don't need to spin anything.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mean if you were to say at the start we'd reach a semi and we just have to overcome Bodo Glimt and a Man United who had been at their worst for decades, who we'd also beaten 3 times already, you'd think we hit the jackpot. I haven't checked but has there ever been a European final involving 2 such low placed teams? 16th vs 17th? That's the anomaly.
Yes Ange's tactics worked well for the final though I'm not entirely sure now if that's because of the injuries or not, and like you say, did that actually work in our favour?
From Ange's perspective, which is how we should be looking at it, he was rather lucky to still be in a job by the final and have that opportunity to win it. A lot of managers haven't had the luxury of time.
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 1 hour, 37 minutes ago
I was Ange in out before and I'm Ange in out now. The cup if you want to analyse it, was as much a happy accident and an anomaly, as it was Ange using his tactical nous to win it. The situation was in place for us to do well.
Overall though the season was poorly managed, so why should a few games in a cup against weakish opposition, be a better gauge to judge Ange on than the 30+ games in which we were rubbish?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you mean you were ‘Ange out’ not ‘Ange in out’ ?
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
comment by palmers_spur (U8896)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 1 hour, 37 minutes ago
I was Ange in out before and I'm Ange in out now. The cup if you want to analyse it, was as much a happy accident and an anomaly, as it was Ange using his tactical nous to win it. The situation was in place for us to do well.
Overall though the season was poorly managed, so why should a few games in a cup against weakish opposition, be a better gauge to judge Ange on than the 30+ games in which we were rubbish?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you mean you were ‘Ange out’ not ‘Ange in out’ ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Should have said just Ange out.
This Ange in/Ange out saga is sending me loopy.
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 8 seconds ago
I was Ange in out before and I'm Ange in out now. The cup if you want to analyse it, was as much a happy accident and an anomaly, as it was Ange using his tactical nous to win it. The situation was in place for us to do well.
Overall though the season was poorly managed, so why should a few games in a cup against weakish opposition, be a better gauge to judge Ange on than the 30+ games in which we were rubbish?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think you can put down the cup win as an anomaly. We shocked Frankfurt, Bodo and United with our more passive approach and that was down to Ange. If you apply the logic of that famous Chelsea game where we played 'our' way regardless of being down to 9 men, Ange has unquestionably moved the needle since then. With the injuries we had in the final, I'm convinced that we'd have lost that game had we opened up and Ange deserves a lot of credit for choosing to go against his principles in order to win.
We can't cherry pick successes and put them down luck. I don't think we need to. The league form has been so catastrophic that it has Ange bang to rights anyway. We don't need to spin anything.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mean if you were to say at the start we'd reach a semi and we just have to overcome Bodo Glimt and a Man United who had been at their worst for decades, who we'd also beaten 3 times already, you'd think we hit the jackpot. I haven't checked but has there ever been a European final involving 2 such low placed teams? 16th vs 17th? That's the anomaly.
Yes Ange's tactics worked well for the final though I'm not entirely sure now if that's because of the injuries or not, and like you say, did that actually work in our favour?
From Ange's perspective, which is how we should be looking at it, he was rather lucky to still be in a job by the final and have that opportunity to win it. A lot of managers haven't had the luxury of time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, he's the most fortunate manager in Premier League history. There's no doubt about it. We're one of the traditional 'top six', if that even still exists. No other club with our finances and ambition would tolerate a 17th place finish. If we do sack Ange, no one could argue against it being justified but the media will 100% spin it as 'CLUB SACKS TROPHY WINNING MANAGER'. I have sympathy with Levy on this one. It's a no win situation.
I understand the context of your anomaly statement now. I thought you meant we got fortunate with the wins, rather than the draws themselves.
I think even if you apply the logic of injuries playing a part in decision making, which clearly is the case, at least he did it. He saw a complete lack of creativity and changed up our approach. It makes you wonder why, in the face of the worst injury crisis we've ever seen at the club, he didn't do the same in the league. His persistence with a specific way of playing without the personnel to implement it is the very reason we're even discussing his future. If he'd showed pragmatism whilst we had no defence to speak of, we'd probably have ended up mid-table and no one would be questioning his job.
That's the part I find so galling. We're in this position because he allowed it. Sure, we had some bad luck (although many support the idea that the injuries were a consequence of Angeball) but if you're dealt a bad hand, you adapt. He didn't, so he shouldn't be surprised there's calls for his head. His recent interview about this season being "outstanding" is staggering in its ignorance of the facts. Winning a trophy, sure, is fantastic, but finishing 17th for a club like Spurs? Not good enough. Fans are allowed to say it's outstanding but I'd expect a manager to not accept that low league placing. He's almost legitimising poor league form which is unheard of. The very best want to win every game. We're bigger than that. We're not Crystal feckin Palace. We have enough resources to finish in those European places. We have enough money to win a cup AND finish higher.
For me, if the performances are the same next year and we lose the first 3 for example, I want him gone. Only way he stays is if he goes on a major streak from the first whistle.
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
Not another boring Ange out article. He has just won Europe's 2nd biggest trophy, and still supporters are banging the Ange out drum.
Ask yourself what was his brief at the start of the season. A trophy and CL. One would have been fine. The fact that he has attained both should be enough to keep at Spurs for another five years minimum.
Had Pochettino done what Ange has just achieved. Bot in a million years would be having this conversation.
It seems winning the Europa for some is not good enough, then they have to start questioning how they achieved it, and start to downplay the competition. Total nonsense. Spurs won it on merit, and were absolutely worthy winners.
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
What decent managers are available that want to come to Spurs? No good saying I'll take this one or take that one, do they want to come to Spurs
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 45 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 8 seconds ago
I was Ange in out before and I'm Ange in out now. The cup if you want to analyse it, was as much a happy accident and an anomaly, as it was Ange using his tactical nous to win it. The situation was in place for us to do well.
Overall though the season was poorly managed, so why should a few games in a cup against weakish opposition, be a better gauge to judge Ange on than the 30+ games in which we were rubbish?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think you can put down the cup win as an anomaly. We shocked Frankfurt, Bodo and United with our more passive approach and that was down to Ange. If you apply the logic of that famous Chelsea game where we played 'our' way regardless of being down to 9 men, Ange has unquestionably moved the needle since then. With the injuries we had in the final, I'm convinced that we'd have lost that game had we opened up and Ange deserves a lot of credit for choosing to go against his principles in order to win.
We can't cherry pick successes and put them down luck. I don't think we need to. The league form has been so catastrophic that it has Ange bang to rights anyway. We don't need to spin anything.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mean if you were to say at the start we'd reach a semi and we just have to overcome Bodo Glimt and a Man United who had been at their worst for decades, who we'd also beaten 3 times already, you'd think we hit the jackpot. I haven't checked but has there ever been a European final involving 2 such low placed teams? 16th vs 17th? That's the anomaly.
Yes Ange's tactics worked well for the final though I'm not entirely sure now if that's because of the injuries or not, and like you say, did that actually work in our favour?
From Ange's perspective, which is how we should be looking at it, he was rather lucky to still be in a job by the final and have that opportunity to win it. A lot of managers haven't had the luxury of time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, he's the most fortunate manager in Premier League history. There's no doubt about it. We're one of the traditional 'top six', if that even still exists. No other club with our finances and ambition would tolerate a 17th place finish. If we do sack Ange, no one could argue against it being justified but the media will 100% spin it as 'CLUB SACKS TROPHY WINNING MANAGER'. I have sympathy with Levy on this one. It's a no win situation.
I understand the context of your anomaly statement now. I thought you meant we got fortunate with the wins, rather than the draws themselves.
I think even if you apply the logic of injuries playing a part in decision making, which clearly is the case, at least he did it. He saw a complete lack of creativity and changed up our approach. It makes you wonder why, in the face of the worst injury crisis we've ever seen at the club, he didn't do the same in the league. His persistence with a specific way of playing without the personnel to implement it is the very reason we're even discussing his future. If he'd showed pragmatism whilst we had no defence to speak of, we'd probably have ended up mid-table and no one would be questioning his job.
That's the part I find so galling. We're in this position because he allowed it. Sure, we had some bad luck (although many support the idea that the injuries were a consequence of Angeball) but if you're dealt a bad hand, you adapt. He didn't, so he shouldn't be surprised there's calls for his head. His recent interview about this season being "outstanding" is staggering in its ignorance of the facts. Winning a trophy, sure, is fantastic, but finishing 17th for a club like Spurs? Not good enough. Fans are allowed to say it's outstanding but I'd expect a manager to not accept that low league placing. He's almost legitimising poor league form which is unheard of. The very best want to win every game. We're bigger than that. We're not Crystal feckin Palace. We have enough resources to finish in those European places. We have enough money to win a cup AND finish higher.
For me, if the performances are the same next year and we lose the first 3 for example, I want him gone. Only way he stays is if he goes on a major streak from the first whistle.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We might get some stick from fans or the media for sacking Ange but given where we finished it's hardly the most callous move. Not exactly any worse than sacking Jose before a cup final. If we start the season well people will soon turn their feelings around. I remember the outrage when Ranieri was sacked by Leicester the following season of their league triumph in 17th place. They then went and won as many games in their next 5 as they did in their previous 25 and people soon shut up.
The only shred of optimism I have in keeping Ange on hoping he can improve our league form, is how he set us up in the Europa. Maybe he will start to apply this to the league where necessary. It's a big if, as he's always been stubborn about his style and he could have just changed it for the Europa out of desperation, knowing really he wants to continue with his tried and failed method in the league.
Do we even want him to style us like Mourinho anyway? I thought we wanted to get away from that. I want Angeball, not Angewall, only a more structured and organised version of it. This is one reason I'd like Iraola.
Although I want him gone because I don't trust him to change his methods and the form has been atrocious, if we stick with, then of course I will hope he can manage us with more shrewdness and flit between the 2 styles when needed.
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 47 minutes ago
Not another boring Ange out article. He has just won Europe's 2nd biggest trophy, and still supporters are banging the Ange out drum.
Ask yourself what was his brief at the start of the season. A trophy and CL. One would have been fine. The fact that he has attained both should be enough to keep at Spurs for another five years minimum.
Had Pochettino done what Ange has just achieved. Bot in a million years would be having this conversation.
It seems winning the Europa for some is not good enough, then they have to start questioning how they achieved it, and start to downplay the competition. Total nonsense. Spurs won it on merit, and were absolutely worthy winners.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What a wum.😄 You should leave this debate to real spurs fans.
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
comment by Dave&Danny (U4428)
posted 19 minutes ago
What decent managers are available that want to come to Spurs? No good saying I'll take this one or take that one, do they want to come to Spurs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well it should make a difference now we have CL. I can imagine someone like Inzaghi being interested knowing we have that as opposed to if we didn't.
Iraola and Frank haven't managed in the CL before, would they ever do that at Bournemouth or Brentford? I doubt it.
Whatever we think about how Levy runs the place, we are still a big club and therefore a good draw for managers.
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 1 hour, 53 minutes ago
Not another boring Ange out article. He has just won Europe's 2nd biggest trophy, and still supporters are banging the Ange out drum.
Ask yourself what was his brief at the start of the season. A trophy and CL. One would have been fine. The fact that he has attained both should be enough to keep at Spurs for another five years minimum.
Had Pochettino done what Ange has just achieved. Bot in a million years would be having this conversation.
It seems winning the Europa for some is not good enough, then they have to start questioning how they achieved it, and start to downplay the competition. Total nonsense. Spurs won it on merit, and were absolutely worthy winners.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe try and take the time to read the article Sandy. I'm not Ange out. I'm merely asking about the dilemma Levy will face and I think the points Jonathan Wilson raises are valid. If you're too blinkered and ignorant to understand that, maybe this article isn't for you.
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
Also, no one is questioning the validity of our EL triumph. We're merely saying that finishing 17th in the league just isn't good enough for a club of our size with the resources we have. By any measure, that's a troubling stat because it's the widest test of a team's credentials. That's where we really are. You can factor in injuries all you want but we all know that the poor form has been going on for 18 months. It's far deeper an issue than that.
In fact Brighton finished 8th and they've statistically had more injuries than us this season in terms of minutes out. Look it up.
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
Keep him. Back him. Give him the first ten games.
If results don't improve, get rid.
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posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
I’m the same with head and heart
How can we sack a manager that’s delivered the biggest trophy in my lifetime (don’t care if it was a easy route)
However we have been awful for a long time with and without injuries so head says he needs sacking
Maybe he is learning still and last season was a lesson so the first 10 games of next season seems a fair assessment time to see if that’s the case ….its his first job in a big competitive league
I would hate to be levy with this decision …..losing the final made it simple
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
Said it elsewhere- give him the first 10-12 games of next season, see if things have changed. If not, or say we lose the 1st 4-5 games then get rid
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
I mean the reality is you can sack a manager any time, so maybe he will be given 5-10 league games to see how it goes, although I’d prefer whoever it is to be in for the season as changing a manager mid season brings it’s own issues.
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
If the form continues into the first 5 games of the season he will be fired no doubt.
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
comment by The Mighty Tottenham Hotspur. (U7858)
posted 19 minutes ago
Said it elsewhere- give him the first 10-12 games of next season, see if things have changed. If not, or say we lose the 1st 4-5 games then get rid
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I honestly think this is the worst option. If we're changing managers, get it done now - give them input into our transfer dealings and a full pre season to shape the team their way. If not, back Ange 100% and stick with him next season through thick and thin. Half measures will give us the worst of both worlds, look what happened with Utd and Ten Hag.
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
Dunno who Jonathan Wilson is but he clearly isn't that bright and clearly being a bit of a wum.
I have nonproblem if fans want Ange out, it is for me a 50/50 thing so to criticise anyone for falling this way or that way on the question of keeping him would be wrong.
But what i do find unreasonable is the selective factors that feed into people's decision making.
Aside from anything else, what that final proved was that Ange could organise a defensive win, that he could motivate such a controlled performance in Spurs biggest game in years and that the players are really galvanised, not divided, not lost the dressing but the opposite. I don't think we really knew these things before the final.
As for the poor quality of the game, serial winner Jose has made a career out of ugly wins, same for Simione at A.Madrid...no one cares about how, it's if you win. The fact we won is all that matters, we made it an ugly game, we had to as we had not fit creative players. We battled and the tactics were spot on. These are all unspursy things.
Plus it wasn't just the final. The whole cup runs on the ko stages was superbly managed, controlled, no dramas. Everyone fawned over utds 7-6 agg comeback win but it just showed a chaotic mess of a team relying on a CB up front.
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
comment by PhilspursFGR (U3278)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by The Mighty Tottenham Hotspur. (U7858)
posted 19 minutes ago
Said it elsewhere- give him the first 10-12 games of next season, see if things have changed. If not, or say we lose the 1st 4-5 games then get rid
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I honestly think this is the worst option. If we're changing managers, get it done now - give them input into our transfer dealings and a full pre season to shape the team their way. If not, back Ange 100% and stick with him next season through thick and thin. Half measures will give us the worst of both worlds, look what happened with Utd and Ten Hag.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Talking sense on this subject is like blowing in the wind.
Anyone who is Ange ii, is only so for emotional reasons. You cannot argue logic with an emotional decision.
That is not meant as a dig at the Ange inners, but they are making there choices on different parameters.
Plus the ones who only do it to wind people up.
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
Yeah, there is a major drawback in waiting both in a sporting and financial sense because so much of what we do in the summer will surely see players signed in Ange's image. That said, I think what we'll see in the summer is a series of club signings - Dibling, Sane, Wharton - the types the club will be defined as workable for any manager incoming. What we can't do is blindly back Ange with the players he wants - unless of course there's room for a swap deal between Romero and his long term favourite Gallagher at Atletico. Personally I don't think he's the type of midfielder we need. Ideally we'll be looking for a dictator someone who can play that double pivot role and ultimately give us control in matches - that's why I'd break the bank for Wharton.
The other hesitancy in sacking Ange is who would likely be coming in to replace him. If the reports about Inzaghi are true, that's a major step backwards in my opinion. He's obviously a talented manager but it's so far removed from where we are now that we'd have to butcher the squad once again to ensure he has the players to play his preferred 3-5-2 system. I'm sick and tired of routinely picking managers that feel so different from each other. The reason Brighton have had so much success of late is because they've got an identity that then dictates the profile of manager and player they then bring in. Ange to Inzaghi is as stupid as Pochettino to Jose. Inzaghi isn't as defensive but the system is totally different. There's no point in sacking Ange if we go that route. This is what worries me about Paratici's return. He might have an eye for a player but his managerial acumen is woeful.
No more glamour appointments please. You can't go from Inter Milan to Spurs and expect the manager to work the same miracles. It doesn't work that way. It's the equivalent of being happily married and then getting seduced by a hot stripper into having an affair. It's just plain stupid.
I have no faith in Levy making the right decision here. Let's just stick with Ange for one more go and see how things go. I'm sick of flip-flopping.
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 10 minutes ago
Dunno who Jonathan Wilson is but he clearly isn't that bright and clearly being a bit of a wum.
I have nonproblem if fans want Ange out, it is for me a 50/50 thing so to criticise anyone for falling this way or that way on the question of keeping him would be wrong.
But what i do find unreasonable is the selective factors that feed into people's decision making.
Aside from anything else, what that final proved was that Ange could organise a defensive win, that he could motivate such a controlled performance in Spurs biggest game in years and that the players are really galvanised, not divided, not lost the dressing but the opposite. I don't think we really knew these things before the final.
As for the poor quality of the game, serial winner Jose has made a career out of ugly wins, same for Simione at A.Madrid...no one cares about how, it's if you win. The fact we won is all that matters, we made it an ugly game, we had to as we had not fit creative players. We battled and the tactics were spot on. These are all unspursy things.
Plus it wasn't just the final. The whole cup runs on the ko stages was superbly managed, controlled, no dramas. Everyone fawned over utds 7-6 agg comeback win but it just showed a chaotic mess of a team relying on a CB up front.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think he is. What he's saying is logical. If you were Ange out before, nothing in that final could convince you to suddenly be Ange in, other than the emotion of the win itself. Also, even if we'd played brilliantly and played them off the park, 90 minutes still wouldn't be a logical basis to decide someone's fate. The 38 league games, some 3420 minutes, are a far wider and more accurate measure where we are as a club.
Ange himself said that knockout football is different and that's why he played that way so I don't think there's any suggestion he'll want to introduce it in the league next year. Also, many managers have found a way to fuse two styles together. You can be robust with flair yet it seems to me that Ange's approach is either gung-ho or park the bus, never a mixture of the two.
I'm not Ange out, because, like many others, emotion has clearly affected my thinking but were i thinking rationally, I'm not sure I'd be quite as indecisive on this one. The likelihood is that we'll go into next season just as inconsistent as the last, just like Ten Hag. He's going to have to start next season as he did his first, otherwise it's going to get toxic very, very quickly.
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
Our record since November 2023 has been unforgivable. Not just since January when he apparently chucked in the league.
But he did win a trophy.
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
I was Ange in out before and I'm Ange in out now. The cup if you want to analyse it, was as much a happy accident and an anomaly, as it was Ange using his tactical nous to win it. The situation was in place for us to do well.
Overall though the season was poorly managed, so why should a few games in a cup against weakish opposition, be a better gauge to judge Ange on than the 30+ games in which we were rubbish?
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 8 seconds ago
I was Ange in out before and I'm Ange in out now. The cup if you want to analyse it, was as much a happy accident and an anomaly, as it was Ange using his tactical nous to win it. The situation was in place for us to do well.
Overall though the season was poorly managed, so why should a few games in a cup against weakish opposition, be a better gauge to judge Ange on than the 30+ games in which we were rubbish?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think you can put down the cup win as an anomaly. We shocked Frankfurt, Bodo and United with our more passive approach and that was down to Ange. If you apply the logic of that famous Chelsea game where we played 'our' way regardless of being down to 9 men, Ange has unquestionably moved the needle since then. With the injuries we had in the final, I'm convinced that we'd have lost that game had we opened up and Ange deserves a lot of credit for choosing to go against his principles in order to win.
We can't cherry pick successes and put them down luck. I don't think we need to. The league form has been so catastrophic that it has Ange bang to rights anyway. We don't need to spin anything.
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 2 hours, 23 minutes ago
I mean the reality is you can sack a manager any time, so maybe he will be given 5-10 league games to see how it goes, although I’d prefer whoever it is to be in for the season as changing a manager mid season brings it’s own issues.
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I thought you said Ange was a goner last season
He is not hero material....No other manager in the PL ever won anything close to Ange won in the league
<mic drop>
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 8 seconds ago
I was Ange in out before and I'm Ange in out now. The cup if you want to analyse it, was as much a happy accident and an anomaly, as it was Ange using his tactical nous to win it. The situation was in place for us to do well.
Overall though the season was poorly managed, so why should a few games in a cup against weakish opposition, be a better gauge to judge Ange on than the 30+ games in which we were rubbish?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think you can put down the cup win as an anomaly. We shocked Frankfurt, Bodo and United with our more passive approach and that was down to Ange. If you apply the logic of that famous Chelsea game where we played 'our' way regardless of being down to 9 men, Ange has unquestionably moved the needle since then. With the injuries we had in the final, I'm convinced that we'd have lost that game had we opened up and Ange deserves a lot of credit for choosing to go against his principles in order to win.
We can't cherry pick successes and put them down luck. I don't think we need to. The league form has been so catastrophic that it has Ange bang to rights anyway. We don't need to spin anything.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mean if you were to say at the start we'd reach a semi and we just have to overcome Bodo Glimt and a Man United who had been at their worst for decades, who we'd also beaten 3 times already, you'd think we hit the jackpot. I haven't checked but has there ever been a European final involving 2 such low placed teams? 16th vs 17th? That's the anomaly.
Yes Ange's tactics worked well for the final though I'm not entirely sure now if that's because of the injuries or not, and like you say, did that actually work in our favour?
From Ange's perspective, which is how we should be looking at it, he was rather lucky to still be in a job by the final and have that opportunity to win it. A lot of managers haven't had the luxury of time.
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 1 hour, 37 minutes ago
I was Ange in out before and I'm Ange in out now. The cup if you want to analyse it, was as much a happy accident and an anomaly, as it was Ange using his tactical nous to win it. The situation was in place for us to do well.
Overall though the season was poorly managed, so why should a few games in a cup against weakish opposition, be a better gauge to judge Ange on than the 30+ games in which we were rubbish?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you mean you were ‘Ange out’ not ‘Ange in out’ ?
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
comment by palmers_spur (U8896)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 1 hour, 37 minutes ago
I was Ange in out before and I'm Ange in out now. The cup if you want to analyse it, was as much a happy accident and an anomaly, as it was Ange using his tactical nous to win it. The situation was in place for us to do well.
Overall though the season was poorly managed, so why should a few games in a cup against weakish opposition, be a better gauge to judge Ange on than the 30+ games in which we were rubbish?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you mean you were ‘Ange out’ not ‘Ange in out’ ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Should have said just Ange out.
This Ange in/Ange out saga is sending me loopy.
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 8 seconds ago
I was Ange in out before and I'm Ange in out now. The cup if you want to analyse it, was as much a happy accident and an anomaly, as it was Ange using his tactical nous to win it. The situation was in place for us to do well.
Overall though the season was poorly managed, so why should a few games in a cup against weakish opposition, be a better gauge to judge Ange on than the 30+ games in which we were rubbish?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think you can put down the cup win as an anomaly. We shocked Frankfurt, Bodo and United with our more passive approach and that was down to Ange. If you apply the logic of that famous Chelsea game where we played 'our' way regardless of being down to 9 men, Ange has unquestionably moved the needle since then. With the injuries we had in the final, I'm convinced that we'd have lost that game had we opened up and Ange deserves a lot of credit for choosing to go against his principles in order to win.
We can't cherry pick successes and put them down luck. I don't think we need to. The league form has been so catastrophic that it has Ange bang to rights anyway. We don't need to spin anything.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mean if you were to say at the start we'd reach a semi and we just have to overcome Bodo Glimt and a Man United who had been at their worst for decades, who we'd also beaten 3 times already, you'd think we hit the jackpot. I haven't checked but has there ever been a European final involving 2 such low placed teams? 16th vs 17th? That's the anomaly.
Yes Ange's tactics worked well for the final though I'm not entirely sure now if that's because of the injuries or not, and like you say, did that actually work in our favour?
From Ange's perspective, which is how we should be looking at it, he was rather lucky to still be in a job by the final and have that opportunity to win it. A lot of managers haven't had the luxury of time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, he's the most fortunate manager in Premier League history. There's no doubt about it. We're one of the traditional 'top six', if that even still exists. No other club with our finances and ambition would tolerate a 17th place finish. If we do sack Ange, no one could argue against it being justified but the media will 100% spin it as 'CLUB SACKS TROPHY WINNING MANAGER'. I have sympathy with Levy on this one. It's a no win situation.
I understand the context of your anomaly statement now. I thought you meant we got fortunate with the wins, rather than the draws themselves.
I think even if you apply the logic of injuries playing a part in decision making, which clearly is the case, at least he did it. He saw a complete lack of creativity and changed up our approach. It makes you wonder why, in the face of the worst injury crisis we've ever seen at the club, he didn't do the same in the league. His persistence with a specific way of playing without the personnel to implement it is the very reason we're even discussing his future. If he'd showed pragmatism whilst we had no defence to speak of, we'd probably have ended up mid-table and no one would be questioning his job.
That's the part I find so galling. We're in this position because he allowed it. Sure, we had some bad luck (although many support the idea that the injuries were a consequence of Angeball) but if you're dealt a bad hand, you adapt. He didn't, so he shouldn't be surprised there's calls for his head. His recent interview about this season being "outstanding" is staggering in its ignorance of the facts. Winning a trophy, sure, is fantastic, but finishing 17th for a club like Spurs? Not good enough. Fans are allowed to say it's outstanding but I'd expect a manager to not accept that low league placing. He's almost legitimising poor league form which is unheard of. The very best want to win every game. We're bigger than that. We're not Crystal feckin Palace. We have enough resources to finish in those European places. We have enough money to win a cup AND finish higher.
For me, if the performances are the same next year and we lose the first 3 for example, I want him gone. Only way he stays is if he goes on a major streak from the first whistle.
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
Not another boring Ange out article. He has just won Europe's 2nd biggest trophy, and still supporters are banging the Ange out drum.
Ask yourself what was his brief at the start of the season. A trophy and CL. One would have been fine. The fact that he has attained both should be enough to keep at Spurs for another five years minimum.
Had Pochettino done what Ange has just achieved. Bot in a million years would be having this conversation.
It seems winning the Europa for some is not good enough, then they have to start questioning how they achieved it, and start to downplay the competition. Total nonsense. Spurs won it on merit, and were absolutely worthy winners.
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
What decent managers are available that want to come to Spurs? No good saying I'll take this one or take that one, do they want to come to Spurs
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 45 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 8 seconds ago
I was Ange in out before and I'm Ange in out now. The cup if you want to analyse it, was as much a happy accident and an anomaly, as it was Ange using his tactical nous to win it. The situation was in place for us to do well.
Overall though the season was poorly managed, so why should a few games in a cup against weakish opposition, be a better gauge to judge Ange on than the 30+ games in which we were rubbish?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think you can put down the cup win as an anomaly. We shocked Frankfurt, Bodo and United with our more passive approach and that was down to Ange. If you apply the logic of that famous Chelsea game where we played 'our' way regardless of being down to 9 men, Ange has unquestionably moved the needle since then. With the injuries we had in the final, I'm convinced that we'd have lost that game had we opened up and Ange deserves a lot of credit for choosing to go against his principles in order to win.
We can't cherry pick successes and put them down luck. I don't think we need to. The league form has been so catastrophic that it has Ange bang to rights anyway. We don't need to spin anything.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mean if you were to say at the start we'd reach a semi and we just have to overcome Bodo Glimt and a Man United who had been at their worst for decades, who we'd also beaten 3 times already, you'd think we hit the jackpot. I haven't checked but has there ever been a European final involving 2 such low placed teams? 16th vs 17th? That's the anomaly.
Yes Ange's tactics worked well for the final though I'm not entirely sure now if that's because of the injuries or not, and like you say, did that actually work in our favour?
From Ange's perspective, which is how we should be looking at it, he was rather lucky to still be in a job by the final and have that opportunity to win it. A lot of managers haven't had the luxury of time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, he's the most fortunate manager in Premier League history. There's no doubt about it. We're one of the traditional 'top six', if that even still exists. No other club with our finances and ambition would tolerate a 17th place finish. If we do sack Ange, no one could argue against it being justified but the media will 100% spin it as 'CLUB SACKS TROPHY WINNING MANAGER'. I have sympathy with Levy on this one. It's a no win situation.
I understand the context of your anomaly statement now. I thought you meant we got fortunate with the wins, rather than the draws themselves.
I think even if you apply the logic of injuries playing a part in decision making, which clearly is the case, at least he did it. He saw a complete lack of creativity and changed up our approach. It makes you wonder why, in the face of the worst injury crisis we've ever seen at the club, he didn't do the same in the league. His persistence with a specific way of playing without the personnel to implement it is the very reason we're even discussing his future. If he'd showed pragmatism whilst we had no defence to speak of, we'd probably have ended up mid-table and no one would be questioning his job.
That's the part I find so galling. We're in this position because he allowed it. Sure, we had some bad luck (although many support the idea that the injuries were a consequence of Angeball) but if you're dealt a bad hand, you adapt. He didn't, so he shouldn't be surprised there's calls for his head. His recent interview about this season being "outstanding" is staggering in its ignorance of the facts. Winning a trophy, sure, is fantastic, but finishing 17th for a club like Spurs? Not good enough. Fans are allowed to say it's outstanding but I'd expect a manager to not accept that low league placing. He's almost legitimising poor league form which is unheard of. The very best want to win every game. We're bigger than that. We're not Crystal feckin Palace. We have enough resources to finish in those European places. We have enough money to win a cup AND finish higher.
For me, if the performances are the same next year and we lose the first 3 for example, I want him gone. Only way he stays is if he goes on a major streak from the first whistle.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We might get some stick from fans or the media for sacking Ange but given where we finished it's hardly the most callous move. Not exactly any worse than sacking Jose before a cup final. If we start the season well people will soon turn their feelings around. I remember the outrage when Ranieri was sacked by Leicester the following season of their league triumph in 17th place. They then went and won as many games in their next 5 as they did in their previous 25 and people soon shut up.
The only shred of optimism I have in keeping Ange on hoping he can improve our league form, is how he set us up in the Europa. Maybe he will start to apply this to the league where necessary. It's a big if, as he's always been stubborn about his style and he could have just changed it for the Europa out of desperation, knowing really he wants to continue with his tried and failed method in the league.
Do we even want him to style us like Mourinho anyway? I thought we wanted to get away from that. I want Angeball, not Angewall, only a more structured and organised version of it. This is one reason I'd like Iraola.
Although I want him gone because I don't trust him to change his methods and the form has been atrocious, if we stick with, then of course I will hope he can manage us with more shrewdness and flit between the 2 styles when needed.
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 47 minutes ago
Not another boring Ange out article. He has just won Europe's 2nd biggest trophy, and still supporters are banging the Ange out drum.
Ask yourself what was his brief at the start of the season. A trophy and CL. One would have been fine. The fact that he has attained both should be enough to keep at Spurs for another five years minimum.
Had Pochettino done what Ange has just achieved. Bot in a million years would be having this conversation.
It seems winning the Europa for some is not good enough, then they have to start questioning how they achieved it, and start to downplay the competition. Total nonsense. Spurs won it on merit, and were absolutely worthy winners.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What a wum.😄 You should leave this debate to real spurs fans.
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
comment by Dave&Danny (U4428)
posted 19 minutes ago
What decent managers are available that want to come to Spurs? No good saying I'll take this one or take that one, do they want to come to Spurs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well it should make a difference now we have CL. I can imagine someone like Inzaghi being interested knowing we have that as opposed to if we didn't.
Iraola and Frank haven't managed in the CL before, would they ever do that at Bournemouth or Brentford? I doubt it.
Whatever we think about how Levy runs the place, we are still a big club and therefore a good draw for managers.
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 1 hour, 53 minutes ago
Not another boring Ange out article. He has just won Europe's 2nd biggest trophy, and still supporters are banging the Ange out drum.
Ask yourself what was his brief at the start of the season. A trophy and CL. One would have been fine. The fact that he has attained both should be enough to keep at Spurs for another five years minimum.
Had Pochettino done what Ange has just achieved. Bot in a million years would be having this conversation.
It seems winning the Europa for some is not good enough, then they have to start questioning how they achieved it, and start to downplay the competition. Total nonsense. Spurs won it on merit, and were absolutely worthy winners.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe try and take the time to read the article Sandy. I'm not Ange out. I'm merely asking about the dilemma Levy will face and I think the points Jonathan Wilson raises are valid. If you're too blinkered and ignorant to understand that, maybe this article isn't for you.
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
Also, no one is questioning the validity of our EL triumph. We're merely saying that finishing 17th in the league just isn't good enough for a club of our size with the resources we have. By any measure, that's a troubling stat because it's the widest test of a team's credentials. That's where we really are. You can factor in injuries all you want but we all know that the poor form has been going on for 18 months. It's far deeper an issue than that.
In fact Brighton finished 8th and they've statistically had more injuries than us this season in terms of minutes out. Look it up.
posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago
Keep him. Back him. Give him the first ten games.
If results don't improve, get rid.
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