Fair enough, it's odd that he openly admitted to being aware of the behaviour.

The thing is, the imam may be saying all this with hindsight. If he did know more then he should lose his job.

I do think people, like imams, parents, teachers, etc should learn to spot the signs of such signs. Just going by "he gave me a dirty look" isn't much to go on

How many of our parents knew what we got up to at 16 never mind in our 20's?

Reading the bios of such people they are not easily spotted
---------
And yet every time we hear the murdering caaaaants used to embrace the Western lifestyle, used to drink, used to take drugs, used to fack around, used to listen to hip- hop or rock music. Then suddenly they are hardcore religious nuts with new friends, shunning their past life and isolating themselves.

Would have thought this behavioural change was very easy to spot!!

comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 51 minutes ago
How many of our parents knew what we got up to at 16 never mind in our 20's?

Reading the bios of such people they are not easily spotted
---------
And yet every time we hear the murdering caaaaants used to embrace the Western lifestyle, used to drink, used to take drugs, used to fack around, used to listen to hip- hop or rock music. Then suddenly they are hardcore religious nuts with new friends, shunning their past life and isolating themselves.

Would have thought this behavioural change was very easy to spot!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Another reason people on here need to interact more with Muslims and Muslims with non Muslims.

You don't understand how common that behaviour is.

You just described me and a large proportion Muslims in this country.

Western Muslims usually go through a faze of contradicting their faith entirely until they turn to spiritual enlightenment. This has nothing to do with extremism, it's about maturing and understanding what you want out of life like everybody else.

Deciding not to drink and take drugs has nothing to do it.

Head in the sand time again.

How come after the event we always get people coming out talking about the radical change in the murdering caaaaaant in the run up to their acts of terror?

"hen suddenly they are hardcore religious nuts with new friends, shunning their past life and isolating themselves."

--

That is what religion does to you...no love whatsoever, just full of hatred.

comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 12 minutes ago
Head in the sand time again.

How come after the event we always get people coming out talking about the radical change in the murdering caaaaaant in the run up to their acts of terror?


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Head in the sand?

I just told you how it is amongst many Muslims in U.K., how is that having your head in the sand? Unless of course you have experience socialising with Muslims up and down this country? Praying with them in Mosques? Are an actual Muslim? Do have some to actually counter the information I have given you?

If somebody suddenly decided to massacre people of course there will be a radical change. Stopping drinking etc isn't one of them.

The 9/11 terrorists when to strip clubs.

One of the guys after the Paris attacks was found drinking a bottle of whisky.

The guy who killed people in the gay club in America was a homosexual.

Where does drinking, visiting strip clubs and giving out hand jobs to strangers of the same gender feature in your theory that following the basic tenants of Islam makes you an extremist?

You may as round up all the Muslims in Britain.

Do have some to actually counter the information I have given you?
==========
22 dead people in Manchester murdered by a Muslim who went from a fun loving, drug taking, Westernised person to a hardcore extremist.

Whose major change alerted former friends, people at his mosque:

Mohammed Saeed El-Saeiti, the imam at the Didsbury mosque yesterday branded Abedi an dangerous extremist. “Salman showed me the face of hate after my speech on Isis,” said the imam. “He used to show me the face of hate and I could tell this person does not like me. It’s not a surprise to me.”


Lina Ahmed, 21, said: “They are a Libyan family and they have been acting strangely. A couple of months ago he [Salman] was chanting the first kalma [Islamic prayer] really loudly in the street. He was chanting in Arabic.

“He was saying ‘There is only one God and the prophet Mohammed is his messenger’.’

I can't speak for all cases, but certainly in this case it seems that there were obvious signs of his change, and nothing was said or done.

The comments from the Imam saying it's not a surprise are unforgivable.

Looks like his brain has been gone through low level format.

comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 3 minutes ago
Do have some to actually counter the information I have given you?
==========
22 dead people in Manchester murdered by a Muslim who went from a fun loving, drug taking, Westernised person to a hardcore extremist.

Whose major change alerted former friends, people at his mosque:

Mohammed Saeed El-Saeiti, the imam at the Didsbury mosque yesterday branded Abedi an dangerous extremist. “Salman showed me the face of hate after my speech on Isis,” said the imam. “He used to show me the face of hate and I could tell this person does not like me. It’s not a surprise to me.”


Lina Ahmed, 21, said: “They are a Libyan family and they have been acting strangely. A couple of months ago he [Salman] was chanting the first kalma [Islamic prayer] really loudly in the street. He was chanting in Arabic.

“He was saying ‘There is only one God and the prophet Mohammed is his messenger’.’


----------------------------------------------------------------------

So you have one example of him shouting in the street the shahada (proclamation of faith) out of a sea of individuals who have carried out massacres whilst drinking and having secx etc

These terrorist have a reputation of not following religious laws. No pattern exists of people adhering 100% to Islamic tenants because that would implicate 1.5 billion Muslims.

Even Daesh aren't that religious.

"Leaked Isis documents reveal recruits have poor grasp of Islamic faith"

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-documents-leak-recruits-islam-sharia-religion-faith-syria-iraq-a7193086.html

"(CNN) A French journalist's ISIS captors cared little about religion, Didier Francois -- who spent over 10 months as the group's prisoner in Syria -- told CNN's Christiane Amanpour in an exclusive interview on Tuesday.

"There was never really discussion about texts or -- it was not a religious discussion. It was a political discussion."

"It was more hammering what they were believing than teaching us about the Quran. Because it has nothing to do with the Quran."

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2015/02/03/intl_world/amanpour-didier-francois/index.html

comment by Kung Fu Cantona 🇵🇸 JeSuisPalestinian 🇵🇸 (U18082)
posted 48 minutes ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 51 minutes ago
How many of our parents knew what we got up to at 16 never mind in our 20's?

Reading the bios of such people they are not easily spotted
---------
And yet every time we hear the murdering caaaaants used to embrace the Western lifestyle, used to drink, used to take drugs, used to fack around, used to listen to hip- hop or rock music. Then suddenly they are hardcore religious nuts with new friends, shunning their past life and isolating themselves.

Would have thought this behavioural change was very easy to spot!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Another reason people on here need to interact more with Muslims and Muslims with non Muslims.

You don't understand how common that behaviour is.

You just described me and a large proportion Muslims in this country.

Western Muslims usually go through a faze of contradicting their faith entirely until they turn to spiritual enlightenment. This has nothing to do with extremism, it's about maturing and understanding what you want out of life like everybody else.

Deciding not to drink and take drugs has nothing to do it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I remember growing up and everyone's parents worrying about their kids going off the rails by turning to drink, doing drugs, turning to crime etc etc

Now parents must get worried when their kids shun all that and start to take up religion

"$hit, he's praying again, God knows what he's planning next"

“He was saying ‘There is only one God and the prophet Mohammed is his messenger’.’

By the way literally every Muslim on this planet says that.

The odd behaviour is shouting it in the street which isn't religious practise.

The odd behaviour is shouting it in the street which isn't religious practise.
========
Ahhh, so behaviour that should raise some concern. Now you are getting it!

comment by Kung Fu Cantona 🇵🇸 JeSuisPalestinian �... (U18082)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 3 minutes ago
Do have some to actually counter the information I have given you?
==========
22 dead people in Manchester murdered by a Muslim who went from a fun loving, drug taking, Westernised person to a hardcore extremist.

Whose major change alerted former friends, people at his mosque:

Mohammed Saeed El-Saeiti, the imam at the Didsbury mosque yesterday branded Abedi an dangerous extremist. “Salman showed me the face of hate after my speech on Isis,” said the imam. “He used to show me the face of hate and I could tell this person does not like me. It’s not a surprise to me.”


Lina Ahmed, 21, said: “They are a Libyan family and they have been acting strangely. A couple of months ago he [Salman] was chanting the first kalma [Islamic prayer] really loudly in the street. He was chanting in Arabic.

“He was saying ‘There is only one God and the prophet Mohammed is his messenger’.’


----------------------------------------------------------------------

So you have one example of him shouting in the street the shahada (proclamation of faith) out of a sea of individuals who have carried out massacres whilst drinking and having secx etc

These terrorist have a reputation of not following religious laws. No pattern exists of people adhering 100% to Islamic tenants because that would implicate 1.5 billion Muslims.

Even Daesh aren't that religious.

"Leaked Isis documents reveal recruits have poor grasp of Islamic faith"

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-documents-leak-recruits-islam-sharia-religion-faith-syria-iraq-a7193086.html

"(CNN) A French journalist's ISIS captors cared little about religion, Didier Francois -- who spent over 10 months as the group's prisoner in Syria -- told CNN's Christiane Amanpour in an exclusive interview on Tuesday.

"There was never really discussion about texts or -- it was not a religious discussion. It was a political discussion."

"It was more hammering what they were believing than teaching us about the Quran. Because it has nothing to do with the Quran."

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2015/02/03/intl_world/amanpour-didier-francois/index.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All this is typical head burying deflection.

"These aren't real Muslims so not our problem".

Only they are coming from your communities, are the sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, friends, mosque buddies of "real Muslims".

Most Muslims in this country will not have that close contact with extremists, but many will. It does not help when the reply is always "They aren't real Muslims, it has nothing to do with us".


They are tarnishing your religion, you should be more determined to destroy them. Instead ignorance is bliss and you would rather turn a blind eye to it.

Your initial argument was that a sudden move to observe religion and not drink etc was a sign that a person is an extremist.

Shouting the Shahada in the street isn't a religious practise.

Your last comment is just full of assumptions. Many Muslims do encounter extremists? Prove it.

Do you have any friends who are Muslims by the way or have any work colleagues who are?

Also I'm not sure who you quoted in your last comment.

Or were you just generalising?

There are much more examples of Muslims who have lived this so called sin lifestyle and then gone back to religion and done good with life. I see it all the time.

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

No way he acted alone, well not in my opinion.

Also lads lets not let this descend into a slanging match

comment by Kung Fu Cantona 🇵🇸 JeSuisPalestinian �... (U18082)
posted 9 minutes ago
Your initial argument was that a sudden move to observe religion and not drink etc was a sign that a person is an extremist.
==========
No I did not. I said people who go from such a lifestyle to being "hardcore religious nuts" is a warning sign that should grab attention.


----
Shouting the Shahada in the street isn't a religious practise.
=======
As such something that should trigger suspicion...


-----------
Your last comment is just full of assumptions. Many Muslims do encounter extremists? Prove it.
=========
Because the extremists have families, friends, go to mosques. They don't just spring from nowhere!!!!


--------
Do you have any friends who are Muslims by the way or have any work colleagues who are?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
By your definition that would be impossible

Not really, you might know Muslims but might be scared to approach them. I'm just interested to see if your opinions are born out of knowing actual living breathing Muslims you have met in person.

comment by (Kash) I'm the Mané, I'm the Mané - Justice4Gaza (U1108)
posted 22 minutes ago
There are much more examples of Muslims who have lived this so called sin lifestyle and then gone back to religion and done good with life. I see it all the time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There's plenty of non-Muslims who could describe their life like that too, I've seen our own Tbab describe his life pretty much on that same path.

Sure - the Imam should've reported the behaviour. Those who seem him chanting in the street should report that behaviour, if only in a "this probably isn't anything, but..." way.

However - the vast majority (if not in fact all?) of those who have been responsible for terror attacks have already been known to the police. I believe this one was too.

Now what?

I do believe that the Muslim community have a responsibility to report suspected extremists, all communities have that responsibility. But short of arresting all those who have displayed "suspicious behavior" which clearly we can not do, we're pretty defenceless.

We monitor them and try to foil the attacks (quite successfully from what I've read) but there's a horrible inevitably that some won't be prevented. I really don't know what the answer is, nobody does.

"I do believe that the Muslim community have a responsibility to report suspected extremists"

Do you think the non-Muslim community have the same responsibility to report non-Muslim extremists? Like Dave down the pub? Should he be reported for saying he hates P+kis and thinks they should all be sent home/killed? Maybe he should, but I bet he isn't.