comment by Imran The King Khan (U10026)
posted 49 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 1 minute ago
Black Lives Matter means the same thing as Black Lives Matter Too
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To you it does but I would imagine that a lot of people wouldn’t agree with you. Adding ‘too’ has far less for people to (rightly or wrongly) get their backs up or dismiss the movement arbitrarily based purely on a slogan.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They’d do it anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Some yes, most maybe but definitely not all.
I'd like to point out Melton that my use of ultimately wasn't me clapping back at you and that was genuinely a weird coincidence
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by Robb Sancho (U22311)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 1 minute ago
Black Lives Matter means the same thing as Black Lives Matter Too
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To you it does but I would imagine that a lot of people wouldn’t agree with you. Adding ‘too’ has far less for people to (rightly or wrongly) get their backs up or dismiss the movement arbitrarily based purely on a slogan.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Those people will always find something to complain about. The name really isn’t that big an issue. A minority of idiots don’t get it but it’s been that way for centuries one way of another
But I do like the irony of a bunch of white people on here deciding what is an acceptable name for a black movement to have
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mate don’t do your usual pot-stirring, it’s really not helpful. We’re having a reasonable debate about it which is I’m sure part of what the movement desires.
With comments like this you’re only going to encourage comments such as “oh the irony of a bunch of white people protesting for BLM whilst a lot of mostly black people steal trainers and destroy black-owned business in their own community”
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pot stirring? You want to change the name of an entire movement because you feel it doesn’t convey the right message. It’s not about you. The job of BLM isn’t to be some accountable PR movement for White people to agree on. The name says all it needs to. Changing it won’t make racist people any less racist
comment by Kunta Kante (U1641)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by Colemanballs (U22246)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Robb Sancho (U22311)
posted 2 seconds ago
comment by Colemanballs (U22246)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by Kunta Kante (U1641)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by Colemanballs (U22246)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Robb Sancho (U22311)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by Colemanballs (U22246)
posted 43 seconds ago
comment by Aster Ricks* (U22339)
posted 3 seconds ago
We all have equal rights. Just some us are less equal than others
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That applies to China,North Korea,Nigeria,USA,UK,any other country you care to name
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Imagine using NK as a comparison and thinking thats okay 😂
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just pointing out in other countries,the minorities aren't Black or Asian,but racism is still rife
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What’s your point?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My point is that there are racists in every country around the world.Simple really
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’re right. If only there was some sort of protest movement to try and change things for the better... 🤔
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you mean BLM,if so then what about every other ethnicity that suffers racism on a daily basis
----------------------------------------------------------------------
“We’re raising awareness for breast cancer”
Colemanballs: “what about all the other types of cancers. You probably don’t know, but there are other types of cancer out there”
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a terrible analogy and what's worse is you haven't even thought of it yourself, you are parroting something some of me else has said.
There's an incredible amount of ignorance throughout this thread as well as desperate pandering and throwing around the term racist with little to no thought.
The problem with this type of discussion is it's very difficult to have without being completely shut down, even for simply asking a question.
You can advocate for the movement whilst pointing out that some of the behaviour has not been acceptable and you're still shut down and hounded out. Mainly by white people who are desperately virtue signalling or by black people who say that because you're white you have no voice in the matter.
It's an incredibly ignorant way to try and achieve a goal and will perpetuate racial tensions even further. The sad thing is I've seen so much activity online that will simply push people further away from supporting this cause and others like it because they are aggressively attacked for either asking questions or even possibly being a little ignorant and rather than having a two way conversation and getting them on board, they get pushed even further away.
You aren't going to change minds or educate people by acting like this. It isn't simply some demand that can be made and people will comply.
A lot more inspiration needs to be taken from people like Daryl Davis. He hasn't brought high ranking KKK members round to eventually even leave the KKK by attacking anyone who dares think differently.
Now because it's so aggressively defended you'll have some other people who feel marginalised. These may be people who have never felt any racial privelage and have grown up in areas without money, where police treat them badly due to social prejudices, where the education is poor and many are condemned to repeat the same cycles as their parents. They will see similarities in how black people are treated and identify with it but be told that because they aren't black, they aren't allowed to identify with it or have a voice. This isn't the case for everybody not actively behind the movement, of course not but there are people like this and they will swiftly be dismissed which is going to cause further issues. This isn't a single, coherent movement with a manifesto or anything tangible.
There are not only racial issues involved with this, there are problems with police enforcement and social prejudices. Rightly or wrongly, some people will feel they are being marginalised and you don't bring these people on board by attacking them.
Not everybody who isn't actively behind BLM is a racist and not everyone using BLM is doing it for the right reasons. Some people need calling out and some need educating. But lazily parroting terrible analogies that you clearly haven't thought through at all aren't helpful. Most of the discussion isn't helpful, just read through this thread and you can see that no-one has any interest in discussing the subject at all or contributing to help move forward as a society.
This is a problem engrained deep within our entire species, it has been since civilisations began. It needs addressing at many levels and education of young people will be absolutely crucial. Empathy, understanding and patience from all racial groups will be needed but having seen how it is handled from all parties, I'm not optimistic at all. People are far too busy point scoring or trying to further their own agendas. It is a difficult, ugly subject and it needs dealing with but I see far too many well meaning people that aren't helping at all.
Sadly, I think Burnley have been so desperate to not be seen as doing the wrong thing that they haven't been helpful at all here. Immediately 'condemning the offensive banner' is going to make some people feel even further marginalised. This is part of the problem with this discussion, rather than doing the right thing, so many people are very focussed on trying not to do the wrong thing and they aren't the same thing at all.
The rhetoric that all white people have grown up with some kind of special privelage is not only completely incorrect, it's damaging. Particularly when the issue is police brutality, you can't simply make it a racial issue because it's experienced by so many different people, of all races. So when some people see a video of a white teen repeatedly saying they are not resisting arrest, hands behind their head and then getting choked out by a police officer, clearly abusing their position then they will feel that they too have an interest in this and whether you agree or not, they feel that despite experiencing this kind of behaviour, they are swept under the rug because of their 'white privelage'. This then causes tension and even damages racial relations. Such swift dismissals leave them finding alternate sources of empathy and unfortunately, this is where groups like the EDL step in and welcome them with open arms. All of a sudden they have a voice and the cycle continues.
People tend to read headlines and make judgements. It isn't good but it is the way it is. When some people see things like the George Floyd incident, they don't necessarily see a racial problem, they see a societal one and one that they can identify with, despite not being black. If more was made of tackling the class issues alongside the racial ones then I imagine there would be a lot more people identifying with it and being on board. You can't simply say 'get your own movement then' because the two issues overlap in so many areas.
Robb
Do you agree with the intentions of the BLM movement?
They would do the same thing initially whatever it’s called, this isn’t going to be a light switch. It does stop them from having an immediate out from disengaging though or a deflection and continuing to play a perceived blame game.
Anything that restricts the debate down to solely education rather than semantics is a good thing.
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 1 minute ago
People who take an issue with the idea of someone expressing the fact that black lives matter probably object to more than the wording, and will pick holes in it no matter how you dress it up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ultimately, it is those people with that opinion that black lives matter is pleading to. The change won’t come from anything black lives matter, or whatever they call
the movement, say or do, it has to come from within.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m not so sure, you know. I think they’re pleading to a more sympathetic ear. And trying to exert political, social and institutional pressure.
Liberal and anti-racist narratives have been incredibly effective at this in the last fourty years, and I don’t think it’s because they’re pleading and pandering to a populace that is taking offence to their movement and goals.
comment by Flashy flibble (U10324)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Flashy flibble (U10324)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by De Gea's Legs (U14210)
posted 27 seconds ago
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 8 seconds ago
Black Lives Matter means the same thing as Black Lives Matter Too
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you counter black lives matter too though? Cant really respond with all lives matter because it wouldn't make any sense
----------------------------------------------------------------------
White lives matter too.
It’s the same thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not it’s not same mate, it completely disarms people.
If one person is saying ‘too’ it doesn’t make any sense to reply in a argumentative/disagreeing manner to also say too as the first person is already acknowledging the second.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We’re dealing with people who are arguing against a statement that lives matter. Nothing makes sense at that point.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There are very likely implications from that statement that people may object to though, by adding the ‘too’ there can’t be. Not everyone reads up on things and looks in detail and makes an informed opinion. A lot of people make their judgments on slogans alone, hence why slogans are so important.
I don’t get what is lost by adding ‘too’ ultimately.
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 2 minutes ago
I'd like to point out Melton that my use of ultimately wasn't me clapping back at you and that was genuinely a weird coincidence
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ha! Yes I know and I do think the same as you to an extent. The issue is like I said though, it is that exact group of people who have to change in order for there ever to be hope of a resolution.
comment by Manc Python (U17527)
posted 41 seconds ago
Robb
Do you agree with the intentions of the BLM movement?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, why wouldn’t I?
Have you read their 13 guiding principles?
This is a terrible analogy and what's worse is you haven't even thought of it yourself, you are parroting something some of me else has said.
——————————
Please explain why this or any of the other analogies I used for Coleman have different principles to what Coleman said. Given even Coleman himself couldn’t.
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 59 seconds ago
comment by Flashy flibble (U10324)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Flashy flibble (U10324)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by De Gea's Legs (U14210)
posted 27 seconds ago
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 8 seconds ago
Black Lives Matter means the same thing as Black Lives Matter Too
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you counter black lives matter too though? Cant really respond with all lives matter because it wouldn't make any sense
----------------------------------------------------------------------
White lives matter too.
It’s the same thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not it’s not same mate, it completely disarms people.
If one person is saying ‘too’ it doesn’t make any sense to reply in a argumentative/disagreeing manner to also say too as the first person is already acknowledging the second.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We’re dealing with people who are arguing against a statement that lives matter. Nothing makes sense at that point.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There are very likely implications from that statement that people may object to though, by adding the ‘too’ there can’t be. Not everyone reads up on things and looks in detail and makes an informed opinion. A lot of people make their judgments on slogans alone, hence why slogans are so important.
I don’t get what is lost by adding ‘too’ ultimately.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s pandering. Sounds weaker to me. And I don’t see what is gained by it.
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 50 seconds ago
They would do the same thing initially whatever it’s called, this isn’t going to be a light switch. It does stop them from having an immediate out from disengaging though or a deflection and continuing to play a perceived blame game.
Anything that restricts the debate down to solely education rather than semantics is a good thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I agree mate.
comment by Robb Sancho (U22311)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Manc Python (U17527)
posted 41 seconds ago
Robb
Do you agree with the intentions of the BLM movement?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, why wouldn’t I?
Have you read their 13 guiding principles?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
<franticwikireadingcommences>
comment by Imran The King Khan (U10026)
posted 46 seconds ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 1 minute ago
People who take an issue with the idea of someone expressing the fact that black lives matter probably object to more than the wording, and will pick holes in it no matter how you dress it up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ultimately, it is those people with that opinion that black lives matter is pleading to. The change won’t come from anything black lives matter, or whatever they call
the movement, say or do, it has to come from within.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m not so sure, you know. I think they’re pleading to a more sympathetic ear. And trying to exert political, social and institutional pressure.
Liberal and anti-racist narratives have been incredibly effective at this in the last fourty years, and I don’t think it’s because they’re pleading and pandering to a populace that is taking offence to their movement and goals.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They’ve had that for forty years though, like you’ve said, and ultimately they are still suffering because conscious and subconscious bias still exists. You can see it even now, if you don’t truly deal with the root, then you can get it rising again, we’ve got it now in the form of populist governments.
comment by Robb Sancho (U22311)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Manc Python (U17527)
posted 41 seconds ago
Robb
Do you agree with the intentions of the BLM movement?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, why wouldn’t I?
Have you read their 13 guiding principles?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So you agree with the abolition of the police then?
Remember, the whole point of ‘black lives matter’ is that no lives matter until black lives matter.
It’s supposed to get people thinking. And on the whole, it seems to be working.
“We’re raising awareness for racism against blacks people ”
Colemanballs: “what about all the other types of racism. You probably don’t know, but there are other types of racism out there”
“We’re raising awareness for breast cancer”
Colemanballs: “what about all the other types of cancers. You probably don’t know, but there are other types of cancer out there”
“We’re raising awareness for child abuse”
Colemanballs: “what about all the other types of abuse. You probably don’t know, but there are other types of abuse out there”
Please, please tell me why the principles behind any of these stupid statements are different when one is being talked about against an anti-racism statement. When does it become apparent to some that sadly there are just some users who have issues with anti-racism, for whatever reason.
comment by Robb Sancho (U22311)
posted 1 minute ago
Remember, the whole point of ‘black lives matter’ is that no lives matter until black lives matter.
It’s supposed to get people thinking. And on the whole, it seems to be working.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Here goes Robb again trying to create an us/I/me v everyone else scenario, as he does in every post on 606.
No that's not the point of BLM, BLM isn't one group v other groups
comment by Robb Sancho (U22311)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 1 minute ago
Black Lives Matter means the same thing as Black Lives Matter Too
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To you it does but I would imagine that a lot of people wouldn’t agree with you. Adding ‘too’ has far less for people to (rightly or wrongly) get their backs up or dismiss the movement arbitrarily based purely on a slogan.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Those people will always find something to complain about. The name really isn’t that big an issue. A minority of idiots don’t get it but it’s been that way for centuries one way of another
But I do like the irony of a bunch of white people on here deciding what is an acceptable name for a black movement to have
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not about what is acceptable Robb. It's about what is most effective. You are missing the point
Thank God enough people commented to get that grotesquely long comment off my screen
comment by Manc Python (U17527)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Robb Sancho (U22311)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Manc Python (U17527)
posted 41 seconds ago
Robb
Do you agree with the intentions of the BLM movement?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, why wouldn’t I?
Have you read their 13 guiding principles?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So you agree with the abolition of the police then?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The abolitionists are a separate offshoot made up of a different group of people
But there is some logic to defunding the police, yes.
comment by Robb Sancho (U22311)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by Manc Python (U17527)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Robb Sancho (U22311)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Manc Python (U17527)
posted 41 seconds ago
Robb
Do you agree with the intentions of the BLM movement?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, why wouldn’t I?
Have you read their 13 guiding principles?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So you agree with the abolition of the police then?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The abolitionists are a separate offshoot made up of a different group of people
But there is some logic to defunding the police, yes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Really
Go on then explain?
comment by Flashy flibble (U10324)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 59 seconds ago
comment by Flashy flibble (U10324)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Flashy flibble (U10324)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by De Gea's Legs (U14210)
posted 27 seconds ago
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 8 seconds ago
Black Lives Matter means the same thing as Black Lives Matter Too
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you counter black lives matter too though? Cant really respond with all lives matter because it wouldn't make any sense
----------------------------------------------------------------------
White lives matter too.
It’s the same thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not it’s not same mate, it completely disarms people.
If one person is saying ‘too’ it doesn’t make any sense to reply in a argumentative/disagreeing manner to also say too as the first person is already acknowledging the second.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We’re dealing with people who are arguing against a statement that lives matter. Nothing makes sense at that point.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There are very likely implications from that statement that people may object to though, by adding the ‘too’ there can’t be. Not everyone reads up on things and looks in detail and makes an informed opinion. A lot of people make their judgments on slogans alone, hence why slogans are so important.
I don’t get what is lost by adding ‘too’ ultimately.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s pandering. Sounds weaker to me. And I don’t see what is gained by it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The gain might be that ok let’s just say there’s 1000 people that see that slogan and let’s say that 25 people out of that 1000 are generally on the fence, don’t really have a strong opinion yet either way but read that slogan and accidentally misinterpret it as meaning something like “all lives matter, what nonsense or I know that black lives matter this slogan is implying that I don’t think they matter and I am therefore a racist” something like that and then leave it there concluding that for whatever reason they think it’s nonsense. Whereas BLMT those thoughts cannot be had and instead of 25 people leaving it, maybe 5/10/15 of those 25 then look into the matter in a little more detail.
That’s what I think the benefit could be, hope the above makes any kind of sense 😂😂😂
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 29 seconds ago
comment by Robb Sancho (U22311)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 1 minute ago
Black Lives Matter means the same thing as Black Lives Matter Too
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To you it does but I would imagine that a lot of people wouldn’t agree with you. Adding ‘too’ has far less for people to (rightly or wrongly) get their backs up or dismiss the movement arbitrarily based purely on a slogan.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Those people will always find something to complain about. The name really isn’t that big an issue. A minority of idiots don’t get it but it’s been that way for centuries one way of another
But I do like the irony of a bunch of white people on here deciding what is an acceptable name for a black movement to have
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not about what is acceptable Robb. It's about what is most effective. You are missing the point
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You think it’s more effective. Doesn’t mean it is. BLM seems very effective. They don’t need to pander to people who want to make the name more friendly to insecure people
Sign in if you want to comment
Plane over Etihad
Page 9 of 26
10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14
posted on 22/6/20
comment by Imran The King Khan (U10026)
posted 49 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 1 minute ago
Black Lives Matter means the same thing as Black Lives Matter Too
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To you it does but I would imagine that a lot of people wouldn’t agree with you. Adding ‘too’ has far less for people to (rightly or wrongly) get their backs up or dismiss the movement arbitrarily based purely on a slogan.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They’d do it anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Some yes, most maybe but definitely not all.
posted on 22/6/20
I'd like to point out Melton that my use of ultimately wasn't me clapping back at you and that was genuinely a weird coincidence
posted on 22/6/20
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by Robb Sancho (U22311)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 1 minute ago
Black Lives Matter means the same thing as Black Lives Matter Too
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To you it does but I would imagine that a lot of people wouldn’t agree with you. Adding ‘too’ has far less for people to (rightly or wrongly) get their backs up or dismiss the movement arbitrarily based purely on a slogan.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Those people will always find something to complain about. The name really isn’t that big an issue. A minority of idiots don’t get it but it’s been that way for centuries one way of another
But I do like the irony of a bunch of white people on here deciding what is an acceptable name for a black movement to have
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mate don’t do your usual pot-stirring, it’s really not helpful. We’re having a reasonable debate about it which is I’m sure part of what the movement desires.
With comments like this you’re only going to encourage comments such as “oh the irony of a bunch of white people protesting for BLM whilst a lot of mostly black people steal trainers and destroy black-owned business in their own community”
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pot stirring? You want to change the name of an entire movement because you feel it doesn’t convey the right message. It’s not about you. The job of BLM isn’t to be some accountable PR movement for White people to agree on. The name says all it needs to. Changing it won’t make racist people any less racist
posted on 22/6/20
comment by Kunta Kante (U1641)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by Colemanballs (U22246)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Robb Sancho (U22311)
posted 2 seconds ago
comment by Colemanballs (U22246)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by Kunta Kante (U1641)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by Colemanballs (U22246)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Robb Sancho (U22311)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by Colemanballs (U22246)
posted 43 seconds ago
comment by Aster Ricks* (U22339)
posted 3 seconds ago
We all have equal rights. Just some us are less equal than others
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That applies to China,North Korea,Nigeria,USA,UK,any other country you care to name
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Imagine using NK as a comparison and thinking thats okay 😂
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just pointing out in other countries,the minorities aren't Black or Asian,but racism is still rife
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What’s your point?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My point is that there are racists in every country around the world.Simple really
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’re right. If only there was some sort of protest movement to try and change things for the better... 🤔
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you mean BLM,if so then what about every other ethnicity that suffers racism on a daily basis
----------------------------------------------------------------------
“We’re raising awareness for breast cancer”
Colemanballs: “what about all the other types of cancers. You probably don’t know, but there are other types of cancer out there”
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a terrible analogy and what's worse is you haven't even thought of it yourself, you are parroting something some of me else has said.
There's an incredible amount of ignorance throughout this thread as well as desperate pandering and throwing around the term racist with little to no thought.
The problem with this type of discussion is it's very difficult to have without being completely shut down, even for simply asking a question.
You can advocate for the movement whilst pointing out that some of the behaviour has not been acceptable and you're still shut down and hounded out. Mainly by white people who are desperately virtue signalling or by black people who say that because you're white you have no voice in the matter.
It's an incredibly ignorant way to try and achieve a goal and will perpetuate racial tensions even further. The sad thing is I've seen so much activity online that will simply push people further away from supporting this cause and others like it because they are aggressively attacked for either asking questions or even possibly being a little ignorant and rather than having a two way conversation and getting them on board, they get pushed even further away.
You aren't going to change minds or educate people by acting like this. It isn't simply some demand that can be made and people will comply.
A lot more inspiration needs to be taken from people like Daryl Davis. He hasn't brought high ranking KKK members round to eventually even leave the KKK by attacking anyone who dares think differently.
Now because it's so aggressively defended you'll have some other people who feel marginalised. These may be people who have never felt any racial privelage and have grown up in areas without money, where police treat them badly due to social prejudices, where the education is poor and many are condemned to repeat the same cycles as their parents. They will see similarities in how black people are treated and identify with it but be told that because they aren't black, they aren't allowed to identify with it or have a voice. This isn't the case for everybody not actively behind the movement, of course not but there are people like this and they will swiftly be dismissed which is going to cause further issues. This isn't a single, coherent movement with a manifesto or anything tangible.
There are not only racial issues involved with this, there are problems with police enforcement and social prejudices. Rightly or wrongly, some people will feel they are being marginalised and you don't bring these people on board by attacking them.
Not everybody who isn't actively behind BLM is a racist and not everyone using BLM is doing it for the right reasons. Some people need calling out and some need educating. But lazily parroting terrible analogies that you clearly haven't thought through at all aren't helpful. Most of the discussion isn't helpful, just read through this thread and you can see that no-one has any interest in discussing the subject at all or contributing to help move forward as a society.
This is a problem engrained deep within our entire species, it has been since civilisations began. It needs addressing at many levels and education of young people will be absolutely crucial. Empathy, understanding and patience from all racial groups will be needed but having seen how it is handled from all parties, I'm not optimistic at all. People are far too busy point scoring or trying to further their own agendas. It is a difficult, ugly subject and it needs dealing with but I see far too many well meaning people that aren't helping at all.
Sadly, I think Burnley have been so desperate to not be seen as doing the wrong thing that they haven't been helpful at all here. Immediately 'condemning the offensive banner' is going to make some people feel even further marginalised. This is part of the problem with this discussion, rather than doing the right thing, so many people are very focussed on trying not to do the wrong thing and they aren't the same thing at all.
The rhetoric that all white people have grown up with some kind of special privelage is not only completely incorrect, it's damaging. Particularly when the issue is police brutality, you can't simply make it a racial issue because it's experienced by so many different people, of all races. So when some people see a video of a white teen repeatedly saying they are not resisting arrest, hands behind their head and then getting choked out by a police officer, clearly abusing their position then they will feel that they too have an interest in this and whether you agree or not, they feel that despite experiencing this kind of behaviour, they are swept under the rug because of their 'white privelage'. This then causes tension and even damages racial relations. Such swift dismissals leave them finding alternate sources of empathy and unfortunately, this is where groups like the EDL step in and welcome them with open arms. All of a sudden they have a voice and the cycle continues.
People tend to read headlines and make judgements. It isn't good but it is the way it is. When some people see things like the George Floyd incident, they don't necessarily see a racial problem, they see a societal one and one that they can identify with, despite not being black. If more was made of tackling the class issues alongside the racial ones then I imagine there would be a lot more people identifying with it and being on board. You can't simply say 'get your own movement then' because the two issues overlap in so many areas.
posted on 22/6/20
Robb
Do you agree with the intentions of the BLM movement?
posted on 22/6/20
They would do the same thing initially whatever it’s called, this isn’t going to be a light switch. It does stop them from having an immediate out from disengaging though or a deflection and continuing to play a perceived blame game.
Anything that restricts the debate down to solely education rather than semantics is a good thing.
posted on 22/6/20
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 1 minute ago
People who take an issue with the idea of someone expressing the fact that black lives matter probably object to more than the wording, and will pick holes in it no matter how you dress it up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ultimately, it is those people with that opinion that black lives matter is pleading to. The change won’t come from anything black lives matter, or whatever they call
the movement, say or do, it has to come from within.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m not so sure, you know. I think they’re pleading to a more sympathetic ear. And trying to exert political, social and institutional pressure.
Liberal and anti-racist narratives have been incredibly effective at this in the last fourty years, and I don’t think it’s because they’re pleading and pandering to a populace that is taking offence to their movement and goals.
posted on 22/6/20
comment by Flashy flibble (U10324)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Flashy flibble (U10324)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by De Gea's Legs (U14210)
posted 27 seconds ago
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 8 seconds ago
Black Lives Matter means the same thing as Black Lives Matter Too
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you counter black lives matter too though? Cant really respond with all lives matter because it wouldn't make any sense
----------------------------------------------------------------------
White lives matter too.
It’s the same thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not it’s not same mate, it completely disarms people.
If one person is saying ‘too’ it doesn’t make any sense to reply in a argumentative/disagreeing manner to also say too as the first person is already acknowledging the second.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We’re dealing with people who are arguing against a statement that lives matter. Nothing makes sense at that point.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There are very likely implications from that statement that people may object to though, by adding the ‘too’ there can’t be. Not everyone reads up on things and looks in detail and makes an informed opinion. A lot of people make their judgments on slogans alone, hence why slogans are so important.
I don’t get what is lost by adding ‘too’ ultimately.
posted on 22/6/20
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 2 minutes ago
I'd like to point out Melton that my use of ultimately wasn't me clapping back at you and that was genuinely a weird coincidence
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ha! Yes I know and I do think the same as you to an extent. The issue is like I said though, it is that exact group of people who have to change in order for there ever to be hope of a resolution.
posted on 22/6/20
comment by Manc Python (U17527)
posted 41 seconds ago
Robb
Do you agree with the intentions of the BLM movement?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, why wouldn’t I?
Have you read their 13 guiding principles?
posted on 22/6/20
This is a terrible analogy and what's worse is you haven't even thought of it yourself, you are parroting something some of me else has said.
——————————
Please explain why this or any of the other analogies I used for Coleman have different principles to what Coleman said. Given even Coleman himself couldn’t.
posted on 22/6/20
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 59 seconds ago
comment by Flashy flibble (U10324)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Flashy flibble (U10324)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by De Gea's Legs (U14210)
posted 27 seconds ago
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 8 seconds ago
Black Lives Matter means the same thing as Black Lives Matter Too
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you counter black lives matter too though? Cant really respond with all lives matter because it wouldn't make any sense
----------------------------------------------------------------------
White lives matter too.
It’s the same thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not it’s not same mate, it completely disarms people.
If one person is saying ‘too’ it doesn’t make any sense to reply in a argumentative/disagreeing manner to also say too as the first person is already acknowledging the second.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We’re dealing with people who are arguing against a statement that lives matter. Nothing makes sense at that point.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There are very likely implications from that statement that people may object to though, by adding the ‘too’ there can’t be. Not everyone reads up on things and looks in detail and makes an informed opinion. A lot of people make their judgments on slogans alone, hence why slogans are so important.
I don’t get what is lost by adding ‘too’ ultimately.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s pandering. Sounds weaker to me. And I don’t see what is gained by it.
posted on 22/6/20
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 50 seconds ago
They would do the same thing initially whatever it’s called, this isn’t going to be a light switch. It does stop them from having an immediate out from disengaging though or a deflection and continuing to play a perceived blame game.
Anything that restricts the debate down to solely education rather than semantics is a good thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I agree mate.
posted on 22/6/20
comment by Robb Sancho (U22311)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Manc Python (U17527)
posted 41 seconds ago
Robb
Do you agree with the intentions of the BLM movement?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, why wouldn’t I?
Have you read their 13 guiding principles?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
<franticwikireadingcommences>
posted on 22/6/20
comment by Imran The King Khan (U10026)
posted 46 seconds ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 1 minute ago
People who take an issue with the idea of someone expressing the fact that black lives matter probably object to more than the wording, and will pick holes in it no matter how you dress it up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ultimately, it is those people with that opinion that black lives matter is pleading to. The change won’t come from anything black lives matter, or whatever they call
the movement, say or do, it has to come from within.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m not so sure, you know. I think they’re pleading to a more sympathetic ear. And trying to exert political, social and institutional pressure.
Liberal and anti-racist narratives have been incredibly effective at this in the last fourty years, and I don’t think it’s because they’re pleading and pandering to a populace that is taking offence to their movement and goals.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They’ve had that for forty years though, like you’ve said, and ultimately they are still suffering because conscious and subconscious bias still exists. You can see it even now, if you don’t truly deal with the root, then you can get it rising again, we’ve got it now in the form of populist governments.
posted on 22/6/20
comment by Robb Sancho (U22311)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Manc Python (U17527)
posted 41 seconds ago
Robb
Do you agree with the intentions of the BLM movement?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, why wouldn’t I?
Have you read their 13 guiding principles?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So you agree with the abolition of the police then?
posted on 22/6/20
Remember, the whole point of ‘black lives matter’ is that no lives matter until black lives matter.
It’s supposed to get people thinking. And on the whole, it seems to be working.
posted on 22/6/20
“We’re raising awareness for racism against blacks people ”
Colemanballs: “what about all the other types of racism. You probably don’t know, but there are other types of racism out there”
“We’re raising awareness for breast cancer”
Colemanballs: “what about all the other types of cancers. You probably don’t know, but there are other types of cancer out there”
“We’re raising awareness for child abuse”
Colemanballs: “what about all the other types of abuse. You probably don’t know, but there are other types of abuse out there”
Please, please tell me why the principles behind any of these stupid statements are different when one is being talked about against an anti-racism statement. When does it become apparent to some that sadly there are just some users who have issues with anti-racism, for whatever reason.
posted on 22/6/20
comment by Robb Sancho (U22311)
posted 1 minute ago
Remember, the whole point of ‘black lives matter’ is that no lives matter until black lives matter.
It’s supposed to get people thinking. And on the whole, it seems to be working.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Here goes Robb again trying to create an us/I/me v everyone else scenario, as he does in every post on 606.
No that's not the point of BLM, BLM isn't one group v other groups
posted on 22/6/20
comment by Robb Sancho (U22311)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 1 minute ago
Black Lives Matter means the same thing as Black Lives Matter Too
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To you it does but I would imagine that a lot of people wouldn’t agree with you. Adding ‘too’ has far less for people to (rightly or wrongly) get their backs up or dismiss the movement arbitrarily based purely on a slogan.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Those people will always find something to complain about. The name really isn’t that big an issue. A minority of idiots don’t get it but it’s been that way for centuries one way of another
But I do like the irony of a bunch of white people on here deciding what is an acceptable name for a black movement to have
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not about what is acceptable Robb. It's about what is most effective. You are missing the point
posted on 22/6/20
Thank God enough people commented to get that grotesquely long comment off my screen
posted on 22/6/20
comment by Manc Python (U17527)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Robb Sancho (U22311)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Manc Python (U17527)
posted 41 seconds ago
Robb
Do you agree with the intentions of the BLM movement?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, why wouldn’t I?
Have you read their 13 guiding principles?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So you agree with the abolition of the police then?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The abolitionists are a separate offshoot made up of a different group of people
But there is some logic to defunding the police, yes.
posted on 22/6/20
comment by Robb Sancho (U22311)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by Manc Python (U17527)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Robb Sancho (U22311)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Manc Python (U17527)
posted 41 seconds ago
Robb
Do you agree with the intentions of the BLM movement?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, why wouldn’t I?
Have you read their 13 guiding principles?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So you agree with the abolition of the police then?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The abolitionists are a separate offshoot made up of a different group of people
But there is some logic to defunding the police, yes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Really
Go on then explain?
posted on 22/6/20
comment by Flashy flibble (U10324)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 59 seconds ago
comment by Flashy flibble (U10324)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Flashy flibble (U10324)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by De Gea's Legs (U14210)
posted 27 seconds ago
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 8 seconds ago
Black Lives Matter means the same thing as Black Lives Matter Too
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you counter black lives matter too though? Cant really respond with all lives matter because it wouldn't make any sense
----------------------------------------------------------------------
White lives matter too.
It’s the same thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not it’s not same mate, it completely disarms people.
If one person is saying ‘too’ it doesn’t make any sense to reply in a argumentative/disagreeing manner to also say too as the first person is already acknowledging the second.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We’re dealing with people who are arguing against a statement that lives matter. Nothing makes sense at that point.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There are very likely implications from that statement that people may object to though, by adding the ‘too’ there can’t be. Not everyone reads up on things and looks in detail and makes an informed opinion. A lot of people make their judgments on slogans alone, hence why slogans are so important.
I don’t get what is lost by adding ‘too’ ultimately.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s pandering. Sounds weaker to me. And I don’t see what is gained by it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The gain might be that ok let’s just say there’s 1000 people that see that slogan and let’s say that 25 people out of that 1000 are generally on the fence, don’t really have a strong opinion yet either way but read that slogan and accidentally misinterpret it as meaning something like “all lives matter, what nonsense or I know that black lives matter this slogan is implying that I don’t think they matter and I am therefore a racist” something like that and then leave it there concluding that for whatever reason they think it’s nonsense. Whereas BLMT those thoughts cannot be had and instead of 25 people leaving it, maybe 5/10/15 of those 25 then look into the matter in a little more detail.
That’s what I think the benefit could be, hope the above makes any kind of sense 😂😂😂
posted on 22/6/20
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 29 seconds ago
comment by Robb Sancho (U22311)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 1 minute ago
Black Lives Matter means the same thing as Black Lives Matter Too
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To you it does but I would imagine that a lot of people wouldn’t agree with you. Adding ‘too’ has far less for people to (rightly or wrongly) get their backs up or dismiss the movement arbitrarily based purely on a slogan.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Those people will always find something to complain about. The name really isn’t that big an issue. A minority of idiots don’t get it but it’s been that way for centuries one way of another
But I do like the irony of a bunch of white people on here deciding what is an acceptable name for a black movement to have
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not about what is acceptable Robb. It's about what is most effective. You are missing the point
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You think it’s more effective. Doesn’t mean it is. BLM seems very effective. They don’t need to pander to people who want to make the name more friendly to insecure people
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