America had never fought an "external" war since its independence until ww2
....
The US-Mexican war.

yes, i dont think we've actually covered japan yet kimch (other than a passing mention in relation to myhammers' contention that china is a "peaceful nation".

interesting stuff all the same though

JPB: You still contend that "America had never fought an "external" war since its independence until ww2"?

America had never fought an "external" war since its independence until ww2
....
The US-Mexican war.
=================

alright, ok. fair enough.

16,000 soldiers killed. probably about the same as one of the thousands of small towns that was cursed by mao happening to pas through it, or his influence falling upon it.

Like I said, get your facts right next time you want to have a sensible discussion

myhammers...the same could be said for yourself about research. 'Peaceful' China under Mao killed 40-45million of its own in a 4 year period

Groove: 4 years in a history spanning centuries is not really a fair reflection, is it?

OK...then research Chinese history going back to the 8th Century...as said previously. Then you may have the slightest inkling of what you're talking about.

Like I said, get your facts right next time you want to have a sensible discussion
================

clown

how does a war between america and mexico in which 30,000 soldiers were killed on both sides, prove your contention that china is a peaceful nation ?

22 million chinese civilians were killed while china was at war with japan. it's estimated that up to 70 million were murdered by mao - about 5 times as many people as died on all sides during ww1.

what bearing does your poxy us/mexican war have on your contention that china is a "peaceful nation" in light of these facts ?

talk about getting your facts wrong. i think it would be difficult to find an example on the whole of the internet of someone getting there facts as wrong as you have on this thread

Japan is a country very close to my heart JPB as you know but that is my honest assessment of it (I would not be as fond of them or have stayed so long if that wasn't how I see it ). I suppose I thought I'd pre-empt some of the nonsense that could be written about it with a first-hand take

I don't really understand this point though, what about WW1?
---------------------------

JPB (U1059)

America had never fought an "external" war since its independence until ww2
---------------------------

JPB: You asserted America had not been involved in an external war between independence and WW2. I disproved that with the US-Mexico war.

You suggested China went to war with Japan. I pointed out that Japan invaded China.

If you can't get basic black-and-white facts correct, then how much of what you have said so far is mere opinion and bluff?

Have they won the World Cup yet?

OK, as the main...and only..tenet of your argument is that you 'had to tell' JPB the facts...here's what actually was said

JPB: they were at war with japan for much of the last century anyway.

Factually that is 100% correct, JPB did not allude to it being China who initiated the conflict in any shape or form. When you mentioned it, he said yes they did. At no point did he suggest otherwise, which suggests he was fully aware of who invaded who...

Now we've removed the only point you had to argue on...can you enlighten us on anything further myhammers?

I heard they've been practising penalties for years

Groove: But why make the point China 'was at war' unless you're attempting to back up your argument that China is not a peaceful country?
If a country is being attacked and has to defend itself, that's all the more reason that it is not aggressive.

In the context of the argument that China is not peaceful, that sentence suggests that they were just as culpable as Japan in that war.

As you're well aware, he said they were at war with...not that they'd started a war with Japan.

In terms of the overall argument, your assertion that China is a peaceful country got blown out of the water ages ago, irrespective of the way one sentence was written on a much longer post

Ok China.. peaceful..? What about Tibet?

Bales...they're following the Chelsea model of winning tournaments then?

So why include a statement unless it's to back up your argument???

Something like that Vertonghen

What is your point myhammers?

JPB: You asserted America had not been involved in an external war between independence and WW2. I disproved that with the US-Mexico war.

You suggested China went to war with Japan. I pointed out that Japan invaded China.

If you can't get basic black-and-white facts correct, then how much of what you have said so far is mere opinion and bluff?
=====================

Total blxs.

Having got every argument youve tried today wrong, you shifted tack again with a contention that china is a peaceful country.

The discussion has conerned this mind nubbingly ignorant contention since it was made.

Because you have been unable to accept the ridiculousness of the extent to which your contention is manifestly inaccurate, you have tried to raise a series of bizarre argument in defence of your contention.

These arguments have included an attempt to comparie the chinese with american indians and a defence that "china rarely starts wars with other countries; unlike the US".

Although I have largely pointed out the folly of your contention that china is a "peaceful nation", by making reference to the tens of millions of people murdered in internal conflicts in china in the 20th century alone, i did respond to your point that china has historically started wars with other countries far less often than america. in the subsequent conversation on this particular point we have established that america did take part in one external war since its independence in which 30,000 people were killed. this compares to an external war which china was engaged in in which 22,000,0000 civilians were killed and 8,000,000 soldiers, and compares to a political movement in the country which was responsible for the deaths of up to 70,000,000 civilians and which perpetrated mass murder and torture on an scale unprecedented in human history.

This should put my contention about the US and your cnotention about China in some sort of reasonable context. That context is that the discussion has concerned one of your contentions, which was so wrong as to be almost beyond belief, and that the discussion at smoe point a long the way involved me making a statement against one of your ridiculous attempts to defend your hopeless position, which was technically incorrect because an american war did actually take place during the period which i made reference to, in which less than 0.03% of the total of chinese war detahs during the 20th century took place.

regarding your comment about japan, i knew the facts of this situation full well and acknowledged your comment as soon as you made it. it has no bearing whatseoever on the validity of your ridiculously ignorant and inaccurate contention about china being a 2peaceful country".

If, as it appears, myhammer's is trying to say China is more peaceful (ie: less murderous) than the USA or even Russia.. heck, even Germany under the Third Reich he's way off.

As JPB points out - the numbers of people killed in bringing China together and Mao's "reforms" is simply mind boggling.

Source - I studied Mao's China at A Level

oh, and myhammers, while we're talking about getting facts right about american history (which you have attempted to drag into this argument about china), can i remind you of your own summary of american historywhich was that since indepdence america

"fought many wars against the native Americans. Then against the British."

you're the one who tries to shoehoe something about america into the china argument and you think that america has had a war with britain since the war of independence and since it reached a peace with native americans ?

where was this great 20th century war between britain and amerca that weve all missed ?

is there ANYTHING that you can't get wrong ?

Hot air. Bluff. The odd angry insult. You seem to think an argument is based on how much you write, rather than quality.

Like I said, you have an agenda and are carefully selecting arguments and the occasional fact to corroborate what you say. I am even less convinced now about what you have to say than I was a few hours ago.

It's not often you see someone get his arris served on a plate twice in one day but myhammers has definitely managed it