It is rather odd that some of you accusing TOOR of certain behaviour, do exactly the same in your own posts when someone disagrees with them. Many on here have ignored reasoned points and stubbornly maintained that their own view is the only right one. Wall like you could say....

And no, I'm not a TOOR disciple. You need to ask why you're accusing someone of such a thing just because they don't agree with you. Not that I'm saying you're churlish or anything

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TOOR, I believe your argument is that words off the pitch such as Rafa's rant have no impact on what happens on the pitch. If that is the case how would you explain Suarez's response to Moyes comments about him ie the dive right in front of him.

Would you agree that he assimilated the message and responded to it. Is it possible that his performance during the match was motivated in any way by the accusations made against him?

I liken him very much to vidicshin from the United board.
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Kudos!

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I have given my opinion as to why and I feel to say that something that's much open to debate is definite is wrong
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Anyone else see how ludicrously arrogant this statement is?

A camel is a horse designed by committee....

Does this mean we'll we end up with a bunch of camels?

No. And the 'committee' could do no worse than some recent managers who had been given an open cheque book.

Step forward Graeme Souness....

And wasn't the boot room a 'committee' in the loose sense of the word?

Is it unsettling that the 'suits' will be actively involved in deciding transfer policy? I think so but let's see what they deliver in the summer.

If they endorse the signing of Christian Eriksen and make the right funds available to ensure he joins us, I'll back the 'committee' approach for evermore!!!

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Wow, didn't realise this turned into a TOOR thread. We all know I like a debate(some call it argument). We all know that I'll go on and on and on until it reaches the point where either I agree to disagree, can't agree to disagree as I completely believe in what I am saying or...and it has happened! I change my opinion.

Now sometimes things get heated, I'm passionate HOWEVER it's has got to the point where people are arguing me instead of the points raised, where people are saying I'm denying them an opinion whilst they're denying me one.

I accept there will be some people who dislike me on here, I'm hard pushed to dislike anybody but people are different. I've had plenty of disagreements with various people but most I've been able to continue debating with and agreeing and disagreeing with, without it getting personal. Some can't do that.

For example RedRob, I agree with most of what he says on here but in the few times I disagree, it gets heated because he is exactly the same in that he will debate his point to the point where somebody may feel they're not being allowed an opinion. When you have two people like that, it's normally only going to end one way. I've had the same with Terminator1, with Righteous1 and various others who I agree with most of the time but simply on the few occassions I disagreed, it became heated. Righteous decided to filter me for that, fair enough, I move on. If I remember correctly Didi filtered me for jokingly annoying him about updating his league table . Again fair enough. I'm sure I've had an 'argument' with nearly every person on this board but I've also agreed with you on numerous occasions.

Now, with Robbing, who by the way I agree with in the most part when he comments, we disagree very strongly on one subject and it's not likely we'll ever see eye to eye as he tends to latch on the everything I say, with insults etc. I'm probably the most insulted person on this board yet I'm always accused of doing the insulting

I just wish people would argue my points and not me, allow me an opinion because despite me giving my opinion, that doesn't mean I'm not allowing you one.

I'm TOOR and this is My Life.

Did Zidane butt Materazzi because of something he said or for something he did with the ball?

If it was for something he said can you still claim that players do not react to things that are said?

comment by FSB (U11355) posted 14 minutes ago
TOOR, I believe your argument is that words off the pitch such as Rafa's rant have no impact on what happens on the pitch. If that is the case how would you explain Suarez's response to Moyes comments about him ie the dive right in front of him.

Would you agree that he assimilated the message and responded to it. Is it possible that his performance during the match was motivated in any way by the accusations made against him?
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Yeah, that wasn't my argument. My argument was that Rafa's rant didn't play a huge part in United winning the league. Further to that, I'd say if there was no rant, the outcome would have been the same.

comment by Robbing_Hoody - going for 3000 (U6374) posted 9 minutes ago
I have given my opinion as to why and I feel to say that something that's much open to debate is definite is wrong
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Anyone else see how ludicrously arrogant this statement is?
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How in the world do you work out that saying I've given my opinion and that saying something which is up for debate is definite is wrong...is in any way arrogant?

Explain

If it's up for debate how can it be wrong?

Your post is written like shít again though so I may have got the wrong end of the stick.

comment by Robbing_Hoody - going for 3000 (U6374) posted 1 minute ago
If it's up for debate how can it be wrong?
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To say something up for debate, is definite, is wrong.

For example, he said something like, "Rafa's rant definitely played a part in United winning the league".

Your post is written like shít again though so I may have got the wrong end of the stick.

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The shítty end you mean?

To say something up for debate, is definite, is wrong.

For example, he said something like, "Rafa's rant definitely played a part in United winning the league".
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Or that Raj is definitely a liar?

TOOR, I think the key word in your last post is 'huge' which implies that it may have played some part. This seems to me a bit of a departure from the earlier tone of your argument.

Personally I agree that its effect was probably minimal but Its impossible to state that it had no effect. There are too many examples of players reacting to words to simply dismiss the rant as being of no significance..

To get to the topic of the thread, if the committee were responsible for the last window's signings then I don't have a major problem.

To say something up for debate, is definite, is wrong.
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Ah, now it makes sense! I'd read the original several times and had no idea what it meant!

To get to the topic of the thread, if the committee were responsible for the last window's signings then I don't have a major problem.

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On-topic comment

FSB

comment by Robbing_Hoody - going for 3000 (U6374)
posted 2 hours, 40 minutes ago
To say something up for debate, is definite, is wrong.

For example, he said something like, "Rafa's rant definitely played a part in United winning the league".
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Or that Raj is definitely a liar?
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Raj is a liar, anybody could tell you that simply by reading one thread. However as I said on that particular thread, it can't be proven. Not that there's any relevance in it.

comment by FSB (U11355)
posted 2 hours, 42 minutes ago
TOOR, I think the key word in your last post is 'huge' which implies that it may have played some part. This seems to me a bit of a departure from the earlier tone of your argument.
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Does it?

Let me help you out then.

"Do you believe the likes of the 'Rafa Rant' meant Liverpool lost the league? Or Fergie's venom, somehow created a voodoo on our players?

Football is played on the pitch."

You don't believe that there are any kind of psychological/mental effects in elite level football at all?
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Of course there's an element, getting destroyed at half time, manager goes nuts, you play better. Not that it happens often but it can.

But to suggest that a United team, who are excellent, who have won the majority of titles by winning loads of matches suddenly won matches because a rival manager talked about Fergie is ridiculous, in my opinion. Simply they had more fuel in the tank in the run in, they had players come off the bench and grab vital goals to turn draws into wins.

comment by There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)
posted 5 hours, 19 minutes ago
"but it definitely helped."

Wow wow. I stopped reading there. Backup. It definitely helped? You'll have some sort of evidence for this, I assume?

So there's my comments on the matter. There you'll see that I've acknowledged that there can be an element of effect but to suggest that United won the league due to this, in my opinion is wrong(that would be a huge effect, if they did).

So there you have it, you're mistaken as I was consistent throughout.

"Personally I agree that its effect was probably minimal but Its impossible to state that it had no effect. There are too many examples of players reacting to words to simply dismiss the rant as being of no significance.. "

Yeah, that's what I said and this is an example of when people are in such a hurry to argue me, instead of my point that they agree with me but argue anyhow.

So you agreed all along but kept arguing against it with exchanges such as the following?

I would say so. I don't believe Rafa's rant cost Liverpool the league but I would say it definitely gee'd up Man Utd's players and they won it themselves which is the point.
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Well there you have it. In that case I'm never going to agree with you and I'll leave it there.