comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 5 seconds ago
Out of curiosity. If an independent Scotland changes nothing, we dont end up better or worse, would you still vote for it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The ONLY decent reason for the whole thing IMO is that of self-determination
But for me why would I prefer one set of shystres who are 60 miles away than another lot who are 400 miles away.
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 10 seconds ago
Scotland getting independence and automatic entry into the various big boys clubs would have a knock on effect for Catalonia, Euskadi, the Walloons, the Istrian Italians in Croatia, the Sami, the Bretons, Silesians etc etc etc...
It's a flood gate national governments won't want to open.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not necessarily. We are and always have been recognised as a country.
Mariano Rajoy, the Spanish Prime Minister, has said that he would expect Scotland to have to apply to join the EU as a new member (rather than getting immediate and automatic entry) but would not block entry to the EU subsequent to that application.
"But for me why would I prefer one set of shystres who are 60 miles away than another lot who are 400 miles away."
If you don't like politicians, vote for independence. Currently we have MPs, MSPs, MEPs & the House of Lords.
If independent, we'll get rid of the MPs & House of Lords = fewer shysters.
Don't vote to keep the politicians in their comfort zone. That'd be daft.
Oh, and I'd vote Yes if everything stayed the same, because I'm fundamentally against the concept of the House of Lords. I at least want elected diddy's rather than unelected ones.
comment by Mick Dee -Stop talking politics and eat yer cereal. (U14135)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by King Laudrup (U17799)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Mick Dee -Stop talking politics and eat yer cereal. (U14135)
posted 44 seconds ago
Politicians have one mandate above all:
"Do what is best for the country"
At the moment the best thing for rUK is to keep Scotland and all the benefits they bring. One way to help achieve that goal is to deny Scotland a currency union.
If the UK government took any other stance then there would be a deriliction of duty.
However, once a yes vote is successful, the rUK government will still have the same mandate to do what's best for the country, and as denying a currency union at that point would be useless then the best thing for their constituents would be to agree to a currency union and split the debt.
No government could possibly take any other position on this to the one which the UK government are currently taking.
And post-independence no UK government could possibly justify not joining a currency union with their biggest trade partner, especially if it gets rid of a large portion of their debt.
Don't fall for the posturing
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually it would be in best interests of the UK not to agree to a CU with Scotland.
It would mean that the UK would have to bail out the banks of a foreign power with, let's be realistic, very little help coming from the Scottish side. It would be totally one sided in favour of Scotland. I don't think the UK gov will concede sovereignty for almost no gain at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Almost no gain?
remind me of the size of the UK debt?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, remind me of Scotland GDP and the size of the bailouts to the banking sector.
If, as you say we wouldn't be any worse off, then the only reason you could have for ceding power to London, would be a patriotic one, and there is no room for any of that nationalistic guff in this debate, it's bigger than that.
==
Nationalistic stuff and patriotic emotion is everything to do with it.
Nothing is bigger than that.
The focus has pretty much all been on whether Scotland will be richer or poorer
Whether folk will have more money whether more people will have more money.
But its FAR bigger than that
If you don't like politicians, vote for independence. Currently we have MPs, MSPs, MEPs & the House of Lords.
If independent, we'll get rid of the MPs & House of Lords = fewer shysters.
=
I would get rid of the MSPs
waste of time and money
comment by Mick Dee -Stop talking politics and eat yer cereal. (U14135)
posted 34 seconds ago
Bailouts to the banking sector caused by UK government policy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
which was fortunate
Can you just imagine what it would have been like had wee Alex been in charge
"Don't be fooled into thinking that mass immigration is somehow against Conservative values, it couldn't be more for them."
I'm not. I've already said on this thread that the union are trying to tighten up immigration
Ivan
I just think it would set a precedent, the Catalans are desperate for a free state despite all their autonomy, if Scotland votes Yes they will use it as a precedent and their national ambitions will grow.
Thats not a reason to vote No I know, but what others see happening in Scotland will have a knock on effect and central governments throughout Europe will have to deal with it. An Independent Scotland in the home of parliamentary democracy will inspire others into pushing for self-determination.
comment by Mick Dee -Stop talking politics and eat yer cereal. (U14135)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by The Duke (U10059)
posted 20 seconds ago
If, as you say we wouldn't be any worse off, then the only reason you could have for ceding power to London, would be a patriotic one, and there is no room for any of that nationalistic guff in this debate, it's bigger than that.
==
Nationalistic stuff and patriotic emotion is everything to do with it.
Nothing is bigger than that.
The focus has pretty much all been on whether Scotland will be richer or poorer
Whether folk will have more money whether more people will have more money.
But its FAR bigger than that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Really?
So you would stay in the union just for a bit of union jack bunting and a beefeater?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
and you would leave for a few quid?
On the banking bailouts and risk to an independent Scotland:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/gordon-macintyrekemp/scottish-independence-bank-bailout_b_4895234.html
"Sums it up.
'It's generally accepted .....'
Vague.
Hopeful.
Uncertain.
NO THANKS.
"
That's my thoughts . Too much hearsay and not enough facts
"I'm not. I've already said on this thread that the union are trying to tighten up immigration"
38% increase from last year. Don't appear to be trying very hard.
comment by Mick Dee -Stop talking politics and eat yer cereal. (U14135)
posted 3 minutes ago
Nothing to do with patriotism.
I don't particularly like being British or Scottish, I cringe at all that guff.
It would more be about having control as a people to change the government when they are no longer representing the people.
If, as you say we wouldn't be any worse off, then the only reason you could have for ceding power to London, would be a patriotic one, and there is no room for any of that nationalistic guff in this debate, it's bigger than that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When does this stop then? Scotland currently has a massive say in the houses of parliament. 2 of the last 3 PMs were educated in Scotland. On a whole Scotland may have a pretty different political views to the rest of the UK, but Scotland itself is pretty divided politically from region to region. Should the Lothian/Strathclyde region have its own government and the Highland region have its own etc?
Anyway I am off, good debating
Sign in if you want to comment
Oil
Page 18 of 22
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posted on 3/9/14
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 5 seconds ago
Out of curiosity. If an independent Scotland changes nothing, we dont end up better or worse, would you still vote for it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The ONLY decent reason for the whole thing IMO is that of self-determination
But for me why would I prefer one set of shystres who are 60 miles away than another lot who are 400 miles away.
posted on 3/9/14
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 10 seconds ago
Scotland getting independence and automatic entry into the various big boys clubs would have a knock on effect for Catalonia, Euskadi, the Walloons, the Istrian Italians in Croatia, the Sami, the Bretons, Silesians etc etc etc...
It's a flood gate national governments won't want to open.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not necessarily. We are and always have been recognised as a country.
Mariano Rajoy, the Spanish Prime Minister, has said that he would expect Scotland to have to apply to join the EU as a new member (rather than getting immediate and automatic entry) but would not block entry to the EU subsequent to that application.
posted on 3/9/14
posted on 3/9/14
posted on 3/9/14
"But for me why would I prefer one set of shystres who are 60 miles away than another lot who are 400 miles away."
If you don't like politicians, vote for independence. Currently we have MPs, MSPs, MEPs & the House of Lords.
If independent, we'll get rid of the MPs & House of Lords = fewer shysters.
Don't vote to keep the politicians in their comfort zone. That'd be daft.
posted on 3/9/14
Oh, and I'd vote Yes if everything stayed the same, because I'm fundamentally against the concept of the House of Lords. I at least want elected diddy's rather than unelected ones.
posted on 3/9/14
comment by Mick Dee -Stop talking politics and eat yer cereal. (U14135)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by King Laudrup (U17799)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Mick Dee -Stop talking politics and eat yer cereal. (U14135)
posted 44 seconds ago
Politicians have one mandate above all:
"Do what is best for the country"
At the moment the best thing for rUK is to keep Scotland and all the benefits they bring. One way to help achieve that goal is to deny Scotland a currency union.
If the UK government took any other stance then there would be a deriliction of duty.
However, once a yes vote is successful, the rUK government will still have the same mandate to do what's best for the country, and as denying a currency union at that point would be useless then the best thing for their constituents would be to agree to a currency union and split the debt.
No government could possibly take any other position on this to the one which the UK government are currently taking.
And post-independence no UK government could possibly justify not joining a currency union with their biggest trade partner, especially if it gets rid of a large portion of their debt.
Don't fall for the posturing
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually it would be in best interests of the UK not to agree to a CU with Scotland.
It would mean that the UK would have to bail out the banks of a foreign power with, let's be realistic, very little help coming from the Scottish side. It would be totally one sided in favour of Scotland. I don't think the UK gov will concede sovereignty for almost no gain at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Almost no gain?
remind me of the size of the UK debt?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, remind me of Scotland GDP and the size of the bailouts to the banking sector.
posted on 3/9/14
posted on 3/9/14
If, as you say we wouldn't be any worse off, then the only reason you could have for ceding power to London, would be a patriotic one, and there is no room for any of that nationalistic guff in this debate, it's bigger than that.
==
Nationalistic stuff and patriotic emotion is everything to do with it.
Nothing is bigger than that.
The focus has pretty much all been on whether Scotland will be richer or poorer
Whether folk will have more money whether more people will have more money.
But its FAR bigger than that
posted on 3/9/14
posted on 3/9/14
If you don't like politicians, vote for independence. Currently we have MPs, MSPs, MEPs & the House of Lords.
If independent, we'll get rid of the MPs & House of Lords = fewer shysters.
=
I would get rid of the MSPs
waste of time and money
posted on 3/9/14
posted on 3/9/14
posted on 3/9/14
comment by Mick Dee -Stop talking politics and eat yer cereal. (U14135)
posted 34 seconds ago
Bailouts to the banking sector caused by UK government policy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
which was fortunate
Can you just imagine what it would have been like had wee Alex been in charge
posted on 3/9/14
"Don't be fooled into thinking that mass immigration is somehow against Conservative values, it couldn't be more for them."
I'm not. I've already said on this thread that the union are trying to tighten up immigration
posted on 3/9/14
Ivan
I just think it would set a precedent, the Catalans are desperate for a free state despite all their autonomy, if Scotland votes Yes they will use it as a precedent and their national ambitions will grow.
Thats not a reason to vote No I know, but what others see happening in Scotland will have a knock on effect and central governments throughout Europe will have to deal with it. An Independent Scotland in the home of parliamentary democracy will inspire others into pushing for self-determination.
posted on 3/9/14
comment by Mick Dee -Stop talking politics and eat yer cereal. (U14135)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by The Duke (U10059)
posted 20 seconds ago
If, as you say we wouldn't be any worse off, then the only reason you could have for ceding power to London, would be a patriotic one, and there is no room for any of that nationalistic guff in this debate, it's bigger than that.
==
Nationalistic stuff and patriotic emotion is everything to do with it.
Nothing is bigger than that.
The focus has pretty much all been on whether Scotland will be richer or poorer
Whether folk will have more money whether more people will have more money.
But its FAR bigger than that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Really?
So you would stay in the union just for a bit of union jack bunting and a beefeater?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
and you would leave for a few quid?
posted on 3/9/14
On the banking bailouts and risk to an independent Scotland:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/gordon-macintyrekemp/scottish-independence-bank-bailout_b_4895234.html
posted on 3/9/14
"Sums it up.
'It's generally accepted .....'
Vague.
Hopeful.
Uncertain.
NO THANKS.
"
That's my thoughts . Too much hearsay and not enough facts
posted on 3/9/14
posted on 3/9/14
"I'm not. I've already said on this thread that the union are trying to tighten up immigration"
38% increase from last year. Don't appear to be trying very hard.
posted on 3/9/14
posted on 3/9/14
comment by Mick Dee -Stop talking politics and eat yer cereal. (U14135)
posted 3 minutes ago
Nothing to do with patriotism.
I don't particularly like being British or Scottish, I cringe at all that guff.
It would more be about having control as a people to change the government when they are no longer representing the people.
If, as you say we wouldn't be any worse off, then the only reason you could have for ceding power to London, would be a patriotic one, and there is no room for any of that nationalistic guff in this debate, it's bigger than that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When does this stop then? Scotland currently has a massive say in the houses of parliament. 2 of the last 3 PMs were educated in Scotland. On a whole Scotland may have a pretty different political views to the rest of the UK, but Scotland itself is pretty divided politically from region to region. Should the Lothian/Strathclyde region have its own government and the Highland region have its own etc?
posted on 3/9/14
Anyway I am off, good debating
posted on 3/9/14
Page 18 of 22
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